Why is it important that we agree with the thoughts?

[Headwreck]

I know that an important part of the therapy process is agreeing with the thoughts. Why is this? Is it to give OCD nowhere to go? Or to get used to the idea that we have done things we are accusing ourselves/other things of? 

I always have these questions for my therapist but when I'm in there I forget to ask. Thanks. 

[Ryukil]

Ha, this was the thing that freaked me out so much the last time I went to therapy. However, I eventually saw the wisdom of it.

Yeah, it kind of gives your OCD nowhere to go. If you can accept the worst possibility, the thing you are truly afraid of, then what else can your OCD throw at you?

I saw someone on Reddit whose fear was that their parents had died in a plane crash. He just said to himself "yes, that's true, they're definitely dead" and habituated to that. You could say "maybe they are, guess I can't be certain right now" but agreeing with it outright is probably the quickest way to get over the fear.

[gingerbreadgirl]

There's a big section about this in Pulling the Trigger. Embracing your thoughts - running towards them - teaches your brain that they are not to be feared.  If you run away from them or try and 'fix' them (i.e. do compulsions) you are teaching your brain that the thoughts are important and should be feared.  I sometimes think of my brain as a dog that I train.  it listens to the signals I give it and responds accordingly.

In crude terms, agreeing with the thoughts is the equivalent of someone who is afraid of spiders holding a tarantula.  It leads to high anxiety and then habituation, it teaches the brain that there is nothing to fear, and it also builds evidence that nothing bad happens when you hold a spider. 

Sure you could go into a room and think "maybe there are spiders in here, maybe there aren't" and stay in the room anyway.  If you're afraid of spiders this might spike your anxiety and lead to habituation.  But it won't have as drastic and rapid effect as holding a spider.  This is the same difference as agreeing with the thoughts vs a "maybe, maybe not" approach.  Hope that makes sense.

[taurean]

I share Ryukil's discomfort here. 

Accepting that we are experiencing the thoughts as a result of a mental illness called OCD, however distressing or repulsive they are, sits fine with me. 

Moving on fairly swiftly though from that to understanding why we experience such thoughts in OCD - falsehoods, exaggerations or revulsions - seems then right to me. 

Using the knowledge from that cognitive understanding during exposure and response prevention worked as a successful approach for me. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by taurean

[gingerbreadgirl]

I think that any method which involves stopping compulsions is going to help.

I would just say that - as I see it - if you resist agreeing with the thoughts because it makes you uncomfortable or afraid, you are sending your mind the message that the thoughts should be feared.  If you agree with the thoughts you are, as others have said, giving the OCD nowhere to run.

[Headwreck]

Thanks for the responses, the spider analogy is really good too and makes a lot of sense.

It's extremely hard when you are so convinced of something to tell yourself to believe it and then sit without reaction. I can only liken it to trying to be happy when you're absolutely furious inside, it's completely contradictory to what you truly feel and how you feel you should be reacting.

Just touching on Taurean's post - when working through thoughts this way, is it okay to admit to yourself that you have OCD etc.? Or is it best to just go with it all guns blazing, as though all the thoughts are really true and there is no disorder behind them? Or is this sort of thing another 'courses for horses' kind of approach? 

Thanks again.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Headwreck

[Ryukil]

From my own experience I would say try doing what your therapist says for now - you can always try different approaches later.

[taurean]

Psychological tools in the CBT "toolchest" are there to respond to the fact that different things work for different people. 

Understanding that my despicable upsetting repulsive intrusive thoughts said nothing about me as a person, but were attributable to OCD, was great for me. 

Being taught by the therapist that with my theme, harm, the OCD was attacking my true core character values and suggesting the opposite was the right approach for me. 

 

[Headwreck]

Thanks everyone, this has helped the process make sense a bit more now. I like to know the reason why I'm doing things and how they work. 

My therapist has always told me to tell myself "and maybe I did?" when I think of my obsession. The thing is, I constantly counteract that with thoughts like "I know. And this (insert rumination here)", my common one is "yes I did and here's why (insert rumination here)" or "so now you have to confess. When he asks what happened, what do you know that has happened (insert rumination here)?". If I'm in a better frame of mind I'll answer with "you know you didn't but maybe (insert rumination here)". I guess whatever the response, they are the things I need to not engage with and just have "maybe you did" and then stop it dead. Very difficult though! My brain has worn such a path for so long that it's just doing laps in autopilot! 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Headwreck

[Imhotep]

I agree with this method, but for my type of OCD (fear of depression/suicide) I don't know if it's safe for me to do that. I can't go around thinking I'm suicidal, that would mean I'd need to be in care or something, or that I may act on the thoughts. Just seeing if that's OK way to go. 

[Headwreck]

Since trying to apply this way of thinking I feel worse than ever. I can't function in work. Is this how it should be? I feel awful. 

[Headwreck]

And worse still. I do actually believe all this stuff is true. Am I doing this right? I'm trying to just let the thoughts be but I'm dying to ruminate, feel like I'm jus hiding from the truth etc. 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Headwreck

[PolarBear]

You've been told repeatedly what to do. You've been told it will be hard and your anxiety is likely to go up. But every time you try to take on the advice, you run back here claiming you feel awful and wanting reassurance that you're doing it right and that you're still okay.

For hopefully the last time, recovery is not linear. There will be many ups and downs along the way. You will have good days and bad days. It's all normal. You just keep trying to put the advice into practice. Over and over again. Lastly, even if you do everything right, it will likely take you months to recover from your current obsession.

[Angst]

Hi Headwreck  My therapy used the notion of Theory A that there was a real risk and danger and  Theory B that the risk was greatly exaggerated by OCD. I was never told to agree with OCD thoughts/Theory A thoughts but to use behavioural experiments.  This was after the model was explained to me and we worked on my problem cognitively.  So for example the homework might be not checking that the gas was turned off and to leave the house. The technique is outlined in Break Free From OCD.

[Headwreck]

I know I annoy people by posting and I feel I'm kind of disliked here but I have literally nobody to turn to with this. My mum seems to think it isn't a big deal if I've kissed someone as it's not as bad as sexual contact, I'm guessing this has happened because I was very drunk, but the guy said he felt like kissing me (I think he said this the next day, that's what I implied to my mum when I told her about it) so I'm presuming this happened when I was very drunk and can't remember. But no kiss or sexual contact was ever discussed after the event between me and this guy. 

I'm struggling majorly with agreeing with the thoughts and then leaving it alone as I feel a) I should not be allowed to forget about it and b) if I think it's true then I need to confess, if someone cheats then the right thing to do is to come clean, not conceal it. So where am I supposed to go from there? 

My mind just won't stop. Nearly 9 months on the same persistent worry, that is not normal. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Headwreck

[gingerbreadgirl]

Hi Headwreck,

First of all, it's not at all annoying you posting here - that's what the forum is for and we've all been in the place you are now. 

If you do decide to go down the route of agreeing with the thoughts it's very important to agree with them but then not respond in any way.  If you agree with the thoughts but then ruminate on what it means, then you are carrying out a compulsion.  It's the equivalent of, say, getting your hand dirty as an exposure but then immediately washing it - you're just reinforcing the idea that there is a danger.

If you agree with the thought it has to be like "OK, fine OCD, I cheated, whatever, I'm getting on with my day anyway" and then immediately switching your attention to something else.  NOT "I cheated, omg, that's awful, this agreeing with the thoughts doesn't work, it just makes it worse" etc. etc.  

I'm sort of inclined to think that in your case maybe agreeing with the thoughts is a step too far for where you currently are. Maybe that should come later when you have a stronger foothold.  For now maybe it would be better to stick with Roy's approach of "this is an OCD thought, I don't need to pay attention to it."

[Skullpops]

Hi, 

Firstly, you're not annoying nor disliked here on the forum...others can see that what you're doing is carrying out compulsions and reassurance seeking, you are being discouraged from this because it hinders recovery, not because you are annoying or disliked

In terms of agreeing with the thoughts...if you do this it gives the OCD nowhere to go. That's why it's so helpful, a "yeah sure, so what?" response stops OCD in it's tracks. As previously said it's not by any means easy, it takes time. 

[Headwreck]

9 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Hi Headwreck,

First of all, it's not at all annoying you posting here - that's what the forum is for and we've all been in the place you are now. 

If you do decide to go down the route of agreeing with the thoughts it's very important to agree with them but then not respond in any way.  If you agree with the thoughts but then ruminate on what it means, then you are carrying out a compulsion.  It's the equivalent of, say, getting your hand dirty as an exposure but then immediately washing it - you're just reinforcing the idea that there is a danger.

If you agree with the thought it has to be like "OK, fine OCD, I cheated, whatever, I'm getting on with my day anyway" and then immediately switching your attention to something else.  NOT "I cheated, omg, that's awful, this agreeing with the thoughts doesn't work, it just makes it worse" etc. etc.  

I'm sort of inclined to think that in your case maybe agreeing with the thoughts is a step too far for where you currently are. Maybe that should come later when you have a stronger foothold.  For now maybe it would be better to stick with Roy's approach of "this is an OCD thought, I don't need to pay attention to it."

That's exactly what is happening. "okay yes I cheated." followed by "you are disgusting, finally you are telling the truth so now confess and no more denial and hiding behind ocd. You made this problem yourself". I was going to text my partner to tell him we need to talk but I've stopped myself as I know he will want to know the situation step by step and I simply cannot offer that. I guess that's one tiny win for me as in the past I'd be on the phone telling him. 

Maybe you're right, I think agreeing is too far for me right now. My therapist was saying I seem to be getting better so I guess I've started to jump the gun and essentially it is actually making me worse again. He was saying I should say "maybe I did". 

[Headwreck]

19 minutes ago, Skullpops said:

Hi, 

Firstly, you're not annoying nor disliked here on the forum...others can see that what you're doing is carrying out compulsions and reassurance seeking, you are being discouraged from this because it hinders recovery, not because you are annoying or disliked

In terms of agreeing with the thoughts...if you do this it gives the OCD nowhere to go. That's why it's so helpful, a "yeah sure, so what?" response stops OCD in it's tracks. As previously said it's not by any means easy, it takes time. 

Thanks, I think I'm just in the depths of despair at the moment and feeling sorry for myself. Hope you're doing well, not seen you on here for a while! 

[Skullpops]

3 minutes ago, Headwreck said:

Thanks, I think I'm just in the depths of despair at the moment and feeling sorry for myself. Hope you're doing well, not seen you on here for a while! 

Not a problem. Good days and bad days my lovely, still fighting

[hedvig]

Headwreck, you are not annoying at all. We know what it’s like to feel the way you do and reaching out for help shows that you have fight in you and a strong will to be free from OCD. You’re brave asking for help and you have made progress. 

I too agree that it is easy to see how fast you fall into ruminations and this very negative black and white-thinking. Could you tell yourself right now that you clearly are not sure about anything and your mind really is so clouded right now by these negative thoughts and possibly depression from this constant rumination so you really can’t tell right now and then allow yourself to let it be just for now. Maybe give yourself a week, or if that is too long, just a night. Every time the thoughts pop up, tell yourself that ”maybe, maybe not - but I have promised myself that I will leave these thoughts behind right now and deal with them tomorrow instead” or something similar. Maybe this is easier right now than to totally agree with the thoughts. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by hedvig

[Headwreck]

2 hours ago, hedvig said:

Headwreck, you are not annoying at all. We know what it’s like to feel the way you do and reaching out for help shows that you have fight in you and a strong will to be free from OCD. You’re brave asking for help and you have made progress. 

I too agree that it is easy to see how fast you fall into ruminations and this very negative black and white-thinking. Could you tell yourself right now that you clearly are not sure about anything and your mind really is so clouded right now by these negative thoughts and possibly depression from this constant rumination so you really can’t tell right now and then allow yourself to let it be just for now. Maybe give yourself a week, or if that is too long, just a night. Every time the thoughts pop up, tell yourself that ”maybe, maybe not - but I have promised myself that I will leave these thoughts behind right now and deal with them tomorrow instead” or something similar. Maybe this is easier right now than to totally agree with the thoughts. 

Thanks Hedvig for your understanding, I just know how infuriating it can be for people to see me spinning the same yarn. I hope you're doing good?

You are right, I fall far too quickly into rumination. That is my absolutely my biggest problem, ruminating, and it has been since day one. 

I'm trying the 'maybe, maybe not' approach along with the 'these are OCD thoughts' because I think agreeing is just too much right now but I hope I will get there soon. Just thought I'd get better faster by going head on but have done nothing but cry and ruminate since I tried. Finding it almost impossible to not follow with ruminations but I will keep trying to just ignore them.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Headwreck

[PolarBear]

9 hours ago, Headwreck said:

I know I annoy people by posting and I feel I'm kind of disliked here but I have literally nobody to turn to with this. My mum seems to think it isn't a big deal if I've kissed someone as it's not as bad as sexual contact, I'm guessing this has happened because I was very drunk, but the guy said he felt like kissing me (I think he said this the next day, that's what I implied to my mum when I told her about it) so I'm presuming this happened when I was very drunk and can't remember. But no kiss or sexual contact was ever discussed after the event between me and this guy. 

I'm struggling majorly with agreeing with the thoughts and then leaving it alone as I feel a) I should not be allowed to forget about it and b) if I think it's true then I need to confess, if someone cheats then the right thing to do is to come clean, not conceal it. So where am I supposed to go from there? 

My mind just won't stop. Nearly 9 months on the same persistent worry, that is not normal. 

First off, your belief that you are disliked here is baseless. No one has said such. Perhaps you mistakenly read that into some posts. Do not mistake posts that are to the point as meaning people dislike you. Some of us cut out all the fluff and get right down to the truth. It doesn't mean we don't care.

Secondly, it is perfectly normal for a person to struggle for nine months with an obsession. In fact nine months isn't all that long. Saz, another sufferer here, has been dealing with the same OCD thought for going on six years now i believe.

[Headwreck]

I've done it again. I was trying not to cry and my partner saw this so kept asking what was wrong. I said I didn't want to talk about it and neither would he but he said he wouldn't move until I told him, he knew what it would be about. 

I've realised I can't remember anything for a good part of the night, I'm talking hours, when I was in bars and pubs, I was extremely drunk to the point where I was crying in one of the toilets and I only remember this after being told about it. This was before I went back to the house and sat with this guy which I remember more of because I'd stopped drinking. Anything could have happened during this time as me and this guy had been flirting all night and had been conversing a lot in texts prior to the night out. I told my partner this. He's not talking to me now.

All of this because I falsely believed he had cheated, why did I think acting that way at the time would fix the pain? And why haven't I thought about the fact this happened before now? I guess I was preoccupied with ruminating about my partner or I justified it to myself. I also realised yesterday that even when I'm not anxious, I still have the belief that I cheated, and it's easier to sit with as it doesn't bother me because I'm relaxed at home and too tired from work. 

Anyway that's the weekend ruined. And that's another compulsion to add to the bank today. Brilliant. 

Edited June 30, 2018 by Headwreck

[Dragonfly]

Hi Headwreck,

In my experience, the more I ruminate at times the more I can’t  remember, as it all ends up more jumbled than ever - it really is the nature of the OCD. 

Agreeing with the thought sometimes works for me, it does stop it in it’s tracks at times, but also my therapist suggested I describe the way the OCD was making me feel too. So as a thought comes in for example, instead of ruminating I would say I can feel the OCD is trying to make me anxious and it’s trying to make me question myself again etc. This really works for me at times, as it stops the thought overwhelming me.  

Obviously CBT is the way forward, but could you speak to your doctor about medication if you’re not already on any? I avoided medication for years, and only relented fairly recently, but it’s helped me immensely with the anxiety I felt for years. 

Ah, no one is fed up of you or anything, I think we all really understand and just want to help. The cheating theme was one of my main themes years ago, but it still comes up sometimes now. Last time was a year ago, and I’ve been exactly like you, utterly convinced I’ve cheated. 

My therapist used to say to me by ruminating or carrying out compulsions, you are just playing bat and ball with OCD, and it will always fling that ball back at you harder! I know it’s hard, but try not to play it’s game.