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Why is it important that we agree with the thoughts?


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Hi Headwreck, 

I felt the same a while back when a few other forum members talked about core beliefs and it confused me. I think it would help me to know where it comes from. 

Yes, core beliefs and core values are different. Roy explains it really well and I’ve created a link below for you. I hope it helps x

I’m sorry that you will have to quit your therapy soon, Break Free from OCD seems to be the book that most members recommend, Pulling the trigger too. 

Take care. X

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2 hours ago, Emsie said:

From my link that explains core beliefs and core values, the subsequent discussion is really helpful too. X

Thanks very much Emsie. I've got Break Free from OCD now so will start reading through that. The link is also really helpful so thanks for sharing, I've never really thought too much about core beliefs etc. as been far too focused on the obsession and cutting the compulsions.

I've not ruminated today but the feeling of "knowing" I've done this thing is crushing me and doesn't seem to lift even when I'm not doing compulsions. I'm concerned that it won't lift unless my obsession switches as that is how it happened last time. I'm genuinely not sure what I've done anymore and I'm worried I've permanently tainted my brain and views about this. What a mess. 

I hope you start to feel a little better soon, with the help of this forum we will all get there in the end I hope x

Edited by Headwreck
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13 hours ago, Headwreck said:

Thanks very much Emsie. I've got Break Free from OCD now so will start reading through that. The link is also really helpful so thanks for sharing, I've never really thought too much about core beliefs etc. as been far too focused on the obsession and cutting the compulsions.

I've not ruminated today but the feeling of "knowing" I've done this thing is crushing me and doesn't seem to lift even when I'm not doing compulsions. I'm concerned that it won't lift unless my obsession switches as that is how it happened last time. I'm genuinely not sure what I've done anymore and I'm worried I've permanently tainted my brain and views about this. What a mess. 

I hope you start to feel a little better soon, with the help of this forum we will all get there in the end I hope x

You are so welcome. I hope you find the book helpful and I’m glad you found the link helpful too. 

You are doing really well by not ruminating. Really praise yourself for that as it’s not easy as I know. You have been in a particular groove for a long time so give it time to get out of it. I do know how you feel. 

Thank you, I hope you start to feel a little better soon too. We will get there. X

Edited by Emsie
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Hello everyone. 

This core belief thing feels like a complete revelation to me. I can't believe I've never really dug into it. I've been too preoccupied with the content of the worry rather than the reason behind it. When I think about it, when my ruminations lead me to thinking about separation and me being alone, I panic and then soothe myself by trying to imagine my life being OK even though deep down I feel I won't be okay at all. I do think I might be onto something here, I think my last obsession was underpinned by this too. Thanks so much for the guidance on this everyone, it's really appreciated. 

So my next question is, what next? How do I focus on this belief? Am I to do opposite things? How do people 'work' on changing the belief? Is that compulsion based etc? 

Edited by Headwreck
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You challenge the belief using cognitive behavioural therapy. 

You will find the techniques to do it in "Break Free From OCD". 

Remember, it's a marathon not a sprint. Changing your beliefs and behavioural responses will take time. 

Roy :)

 

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Well I've read about halfway through Break Free From OCD and I'm now worried because I really don't think I fit the mould when it describes OCD and it's processes, specifically the Rumination OCD. As well as that it says rumination may becaused by depression, GAD etc. - both of which I've been diagnosed with previously - and isn't always indicative of OCD. The only thing that suggests that my case is OCD is the fact that I didn't used to think I had cheated, but now I think I have, but even then that isn't proof. And the fact that I have a history of OCD. The MO itself just doesn't seem to fit and my suspicions aren't baseless or irrational like others are. 

I'm trying so very hard to work on this and help myself, it might not seem like it but I really am trying so much, but every step of the way I'm finding there is more and more indicating that this is a very real concern. I'm not ruminating as much as I was but the feeling and the thought of "you've done this" is still there as strong as ever. This so called clarity I should feel when anxiety and ruminating has dropped just doesn't seem to exist.

I'll continue to read the book and try the exercises but I'm becoming so tired of it all. I'm in no way expecting a miracle cure or for this to be gone in a matter of days but I just feel like I'm covering the same ground and going round and around in circles. I wake up with the best intentions even though I feel like absolute scum of the earth from the moment I open my eyes the thoughts are there, I go against that but always finish the day in the same place I started, if not worse. 

Sorry. Guess I just wanted to get it out rather than sit bottling this up as well as everything else. 

Edited by Headwreck
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On 27/06/2018 at 07:24, Headwreck said:

I know that an important part of the therapy process is agreeing with the thoughts. Why is this? Is it to give OCD nowhere to go? Or to get used to the idea that we have done things we are accusing ourselves/other things of? 

I always have these questions for my therapist but when I'm in there I forget to ask. Thanks. 

I'll wade in to an already lengthy thread. Agreeing with the thoughts might be relative shorthand for accepting them. The agreeing part goes like this - let's say I DON'T have a fear or obsession about being gay - for example, if the random thought comes into my my 'I might be gay' - there's no reason why I shouldn't agree with it, I'm humoring it, in the way that OCD should be dealt with, as a bit of an idiot. The same goes with if you DO have an OCD fear, obsession about being gay, you deal with it as you would an idiot - 'Am I gay ... yeah, yeah, of course I am ... whatever you say. ' Inanity dismissed.  Having said that - a cognitive insight is all important. The irrelevance recognition, is merely part of the same. 

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Personally, I think understanding that the OCD is creating a false or exaggerated core belief is much more important. 

And then, when an OCD intrusion comes calling, we might just think (as I was taught by my therapist)  " Oh that's just my silly obsession ", not to dwell on it, and ease mental focus away. 

When agreeing with the thoughts is used I believe it should be like paradoxer says. 

People being asked to focus onto the idea that the obsession is real isn't right I don't think. Being asked, in a behavioural experiment, to consider that possibility as theory A, against theory B that we are actually worrying about it being true, is also ok in my eyes. 

Edited by taurean
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17 hours ago, Headwreck said:

So my next question is, what next? How do I focus on this belief? Am I to do opposite things? How do people 'work' on changing the belief? Is that compulsion based etc? 

I think it's possible to get bogged down with thinking about core beliefs and it can become lke rumination.

That said, I can tell you what I did/am doing and you can see if it's something that might help?

With my core belief I did/am doing as Roy says, I used the theory A/theory B technique in Break Free from OCD.  I put my core belief as theory A, and a put a more flexible/realistic version of the core belief as theory B, and then I tested this.

(Bear in mind I am still very new to this and what I've put below could be wrong, but it's just my twopenny worth.)

So in your case, theory A could be something like "I wouldn't survive if my boyfriend left me."

And theory B could be something like "I would cope if my boyfriend left me."

(In developing theory B, I thought: how do other people deal with this thought? Do they worry? If not why not? How do they think differently?)

And then you compile evidence for theory A and theory B.  But it has to be REAL evidence (feelings don't count).  So for example, evidence for theory B could be that you've coped with a difficult situation in the past.  Or that other people's partners leave them and they cope (you could think of a specific example).  List as many things as you can think of.

Don't get stuck in a ruminating loop with this, just be quite detached and rational with it.

Then, you think "how would I live my life if theory B was 100% true?" You're not committing to theory B being true.  You're just trying it out.  So you'd think of ways your behaviour might change if you felt you could cope with your boyfriend leaving you. How would it be different to what you do now?

Or you can think, how do other people approach the problem of their partner potentially leaving them? Absolutely everyone in a relationship faces this issue, but most people don't worry about it or carry out compulsions.  So what do they do differently?

Based on what you come up with, you could find a list of goals/behavioural experiments to carry out to test theory B.

By attacking this both cognitively and behaviourally, over time I think your core belief will start to shift at a deep level and you will stop intepreting your fear of having cheated/your boyfriend leaving you as the very worst thing in the world.

I hope some of this helps.... I have been doing something similar with my OCD and it has really helped.

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Thanks for the input everyone and the above advice is top notch. Maybe right now though I just can't take the good advice I'm being given as I don't feel it applies to me. I'm becoming far too conscious of my thoughts and processes because I'm trying to decipher what it means psychologically/OCD illness wise (and I'm not even sure what I'm going through is ocd, more likely depression or anxiety down to the fact that this night out irrespective of sexual contact was out of character for me) and in turn it's making me feel very disconnected, extremely confused and mentally exhausted. 

The past few days haven't been very good and I'm in complete belief that I've done something on that night. So I surrender to it. Finally it's won. I'm sick of thinking about it, telling myself I've done it. So fine I have. Now I have to live with it and live a life being the lowest of the low until it all comes out from another source. Or I confess to my partner who won't believe me anyway which makes me feel worse. Will I still be thinking about this in another 9 months? I'd bet my life on it that I will be as I can't physically imagine ever letting this slide.

Sorry for flogging a dead horse, it's excruciatingly boring and predicable. I don't want to waste anymore of anyone's time and I feel I've taken advantage of people's patience and kindness already so I'll refrain from any further posts. If a moderator could please freeze my account then I'd appreciate it. Thanks again for the help. 

Edited by Headwreck
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Reminds me of a birthday once when one of the secretaries and I got talking, and I found she was suffering from various insecurities, and I sought to give her some help and encouragement. 

At the end of an extended birthday lunchtime, she gave me a kiss to say thank you for listening and helping me. 

It was years ago now, but if we believe what OCD is saying, then I was guilty of being unfaithful. And, in the time-honoured way of the courtroom, "your honour, I would like an additional forty or so other cases to be brought into account when sentencing me". 

When we look at what OCD is saying in that kind of cynical fashion, it helps to show up just how silly the obsessional thinking really is to those who aren't suffering - and that can make it easier for the sufferer to at last see it that way. 

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I don't want to mislead anyone here. I am not an innocent victim and just afflicted with obsession. I went on the night out wanting something to happen because I was obsessed about the idea that my partner had cheated. I was also very drunk as would use alcohol as a means of escape. So, this isn't just an overblown scenario, there is an element of truth to it so for me the chance something has happened is a lot higher in likeliness. 

Sometimes I think it may have just been a kiss, if I'm in a better frame of mind, this is not ideal in any way for me but a little easier to accept. Usually though I think it must have gone further. It depends on how bad or good I'm feeling. I don't know if this is the usual MO for OCD or not but I am aware that it's not the usual thinking pattern for someone considered as mentally well. 

Either way, nothing was ever mentioned about it after the night, in fact the person in question told me he had wanted to kiss me all night when we spoke over text afterwards but now I doubt this information even though I told people about this when I thought I was innocent. I have always said nothing went on until this notion changed 9 months ago so I'm relying solely on how I felt at that time and what very little I remember of a night out nearly three years ago.

I really don't want to mislead people here into thinking that I'm suffering through no fault of my own, this is not the case and I understand if people don't want to offer assistance due to that. With that said, I don't think there is much more anyone can say or do for me anyway. 

Edited by Headwreck
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I just can't stop going over and over and over it. Not even checking or ruminating, just basically the feeling and the thought of having done it. It won't stop no matter what. My head feels like it's going to explode, I really just want to walk out of work, text my partner to tell him it's finished and then just end everything. 

I know that even someone who had cheated would not think about this for so long and still be doing this but I can't NOT care about it. I start every day thinking 'just agree and ignore. It doesn't matter, it's in the past' then seconds later I'm back at it and continue to be on it for the rest of the day until I go to bed. 

Edited by Headwreck
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Hi Headwreck. 

Sufferers with these sort of obsessions seem to make such posts. 

It's all a gross exaggeration of a minimum thing. 

A sufferer might make a big thing about my friend who runs her cafe brushing me as she leant past to open the window this morning - but we didn't. 

Your issue is only an issue to you as it is a focus of your OCD. 

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It never was an issue before last October. Now it's all I think about, not even just in the form of ruminations but just in general. I can't even see people drinking beer without it reminding me of that night. I hear random music in the street and wonder if that played that night, what does that even have to do with anything? 

I don't have therapy to go to anymore so I'm absolutely alone with this now. 

Can you still have OCD thinking without the anxiety? Sometimes when my anxiety is lower I check what I think and I still think the same way as when I'm panicking. I thought the anxiety drove the way we perceive the thoughts. 

Edited by Headwreck
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No, the anxiety is the D - disorder part of the OCD equation. 

The "connections"  the OCD is making to other things is a normal reaction. Leave them be, they are not actual, but fabricated. 

Remember, to be OCD you just need obsessional thinking leading to carrying out of compulsions to try and "fix" things (but they only strengthen the obsessional thinking)  and this leads to disorder. If this happens, then OCD to some degree is in play. 

Edited by taurean
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14 minutes ago, taurean said:

No, the anxiety is the D - disorder part of the OCD equation. 

The "connections"  the OCD is making to other things is a normal reaction. Leave them be, they are not actual, but fabricated. 

Remember, to be OCD you just need obsessional thinking leading to carrying out of compulsions to try and "fix" things (but they only strengthen the obsessional thinking)  and this leads to disorder. If this happens, then OCD to some degree is in play. 

Thanks Taurean. I guess there may be a possibility that it isn't OCD. I've definitely got the obsessional thoughts, 100% absolutely without a doubt. I've been living with this for 9 months, before that it was 4 years obsessed with my partner cheating. Compulsions, not so much, maybe the thinking and ruminating. 

Me boring people to tears on here isn't going to change anything for anybody. I feel like I need to take action somehow. Therapy has made my day to day functioning improve by miles but finances don't permit attending any longer. So I'm not sure where that leaves me. 

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It leaves you continuing to apply what you have learned,  add to it, work diligently and accept, by taking that "leap of faith"  we talk about, that it is OCD and not with any reality. 

Stop trying to work things out, or applying tests, and ruminating. This will take time, do it gradually. 

And keep asking when you don't understand. Join the book club thread and learn from reading the books and passing and reading comment. 

Edited by taurean
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8 hours ago, Headwreck said:

I don't want to mislead anyone here. I am not an innocent victim and just afflicted with obsession. I went on the night out wanting something to happen because I was obsessed about the idea that my partner had cheated. I was also very drunk as would use alcohol as a means of escape. So, this isn't just an overblown scenario, there is an element of truth to it so for me the chance something has happened is a lot higher in likeliness. 

Sometimes I think it may have just been a kiss, if I'm in a better frame of mind, this is not ideal in any way for me but a little easier to accept. Usually though I think it must have gone further. It depends on how bad or good I'm feeling. I don't know if this is the usual MO for OCD or not but I am aware that it's not the usual thinking pattern for someone considered as mentally well. 

Either way, nothing was ever mentioned about it after the night, in fact the person in question told me he had wanted to kiss me all night when we spoke over text afterwards but now I doubt this information even though I told people about this when I thought I was innocent. I have always said nothing went on until this notion changed 9 months ago so I'm relying solely on how I felt at that time and what very little I remember of a night out nearly three years ago.

I really don't want to mislead people here into thinking that I'm suffering through no fault of my own, this is not the case and I understand if people don't want to offer assistance due to that. With that said, I don't think there is much more anyone can say or do for me anyway. 

Twisted thinking, believing that we're going to drop you like a hot potato just because you went out that night with the intent of starting something. We're not daft. It's still 100% OCD. You have no real memory of doing anything. You will never have such a memory. But you punish yourself relentlessly, just in case you did something. Seen it many times before. It's OCD.

Edited by PolarBear
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I should also point out that your musing anout telling your partner that you cheated would be both a lie and a compulsion.

You do NOT know if you did anything and never will. So saying you did would be an outright lie.

Confessing as such would be a compulsion. You think it would finally end your nine months of torment. It wouldn't. OCD doesn't stop when you do a compulsion. It either shifts to something new or keeps on going. If you think your worries will be over if you falsely confess, you are wrong.

Edited by PolarBear
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I really know it doesn't seem like it but I'm trying so hard and I'm still in the same position mentally. Therapy did help as when this started I was absolutely inconsolable, breaking down in work, packing my bags every weekend, etc. I can function enough to do my job and fake a smile but the issue is very much still there behind it all. I'm also severely depressed which is making things even harder.

Now without the therapy, I'm scared I'm going to slip back into that. I'm not giving into compulsions, you are right PB, I wanted to confess and leave in order to escape this but I didn't do it as I remember what you and others advise over and over, it doesn't help. The biggest compulsion is in my head, my mind is still swimming in thoughts and does fall into ruminating or at least thinking about what I'm thinking at the time. I feel like I should be thinking about it constantly as I'm ignoring a massive issue. I know that doesn't make sense. 

Taurean, thank you, I will try and utilise the book group and as you have said, ask questions within reason. Appreciate your patience and help. 

I am just so sorry to everyone for going on and on for months on end about the same thing. I feel like I've been on this night out for the past 9 months. 

Edited by Headwreck
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1 hour ago, Headwreck said:

I am just so sorry to everyone for going on and on for months on end about the same thing. I feel like I've been on this night out for the past 9 months. 

No need to apologise, we all know what the disorder does.

In my case I would get constantly-repeating repulsive intrusions, sometimes for weeks on end. And if the subject matter changed, it would be to another equally-vile intrusion. 

Our experience of the disorder can be similar to others, or very different and personal. 

Nevertheless it's still OCD, and it can take some time to unravel it, and recover or at least manage. 

 

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