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I've noticed I have random 'episodes' of panic/obsession about random things that may last from a couple of hours to a couple of days. Mainly things I've done in the past or things that have happened (ie looking at social media over and over I'll then suddenly think I'll be put in jail, things I've said and thought I've offended people, something I did as a kid and I thought maybe it was abuse etc). All of a sudden I'll explode with panic and unbearable guilt and I end up having to talk about it and ask questions about it and it gets me terribly upset until I've been reassured or confessed and then it fades.

They don't last for months or years but maybe from a few hours to a day or two, I get this every couple of months at most, just small pockets of random panic about random things. Is this a common thing? I was wondering if that was Generalised Anxiety Disorder or is this linked to OCD? 

Edited by Headwreck
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7 minutes ago, Headwreck said:

All of a sudden I'll explode with panic and unbearable guilt and I end up having to talk about it and ask questions about it.

100% OCD.

8 minutes ago, Headwreck said:

I'll then suddenly think

And this is key.

The meaning you give to whatever you've looked at/done creates the obsession and the result is compulsions to alleviate the uncertainty/anxiety. 

To stop OCD from taking hold you have to learn to recognise that 'giving it meaning' moment and stop yourself there and then by accepting the meaning you've given it is something you fear, not fact. 

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5 minutes ago, snowbear said:

100% OCD.

And this is key.

The meaning you give to whatever you've looked at/done creates the obsession and the result is compulsions to alleviate the uncertainty/anxiety. 

To stop OCD from taking hold you have to learn to recognise that 'giving it meaning' moment and stop yourself there and then by accepting the meaning you've given it is something you fear, not fact. 

Thanks for the response, I guessed as much but part of  me wonders if it may be GAD as I was diagnosed with that at one stage although understand that GAD and OCD are often mixed up.

I thought it was normal behaviour and everyone did this kind of thing. For years I thought my OCD was just checking stuff but it's only been very recently (months) that I've noticed a lot of things I do are not actually things 'normal' people do or worry about. Why do these small pockets not last as long as others though?

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43 minutes ago, Headwreck said:

Why do these small pockets not last as long as others though?

Unfortunately there is a lot we don't know about how these sorts of things work.  We don't know why one person obsesses over one thing, while another person doesn't.  We don't know why some worries only bother us a little while, and others stick with us for years (or a lifetime).  Its understandable to wonder about this thing we have, to want answers, to want it to make sense.  Maybe someday we will figure it out, but at least for now its something we just don't know.

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20 minutes ago, dksea said:

Unfortunately there is a lot we don't know about how these sorts of things work.  We don't know why one person obsesses over one thing, while another person doesn't.  We don't know why some worries only bother us a little while, and others stick with us for years (or a lifetime).  Its understandable to wonder about this thing we have, to want answers, to want it to make sense.  Maybe someday we will figure it out, but at least for now its something we just don't know.

Thanks. I guess you are right... :sad:

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1 hour ago, dksea said:

Unfortunately there is a lot we don't know about how these sorts of things work.  We don't know why one person obsesses over one thing, while another person doesn't.  We don't know why some worries only bother us a little while, and others stick with us for years (or a lifetime).  Its understandable to wonder about this thing we have, to want answers, to want it to make sense.  Maybe someday we will figure it out, but at least for now its something we just don't know.

Actually that's not true. We do know.

We know exactly why one person obsesses over something and another doesn't. If the subject is significant to the person they will worry over it. For example; religious people get religious obsessions, people who are insecure about their sexuality get sexual obsessions, people who fear being a paedophile get paedophile obsessions, if 'being a good person' is important to the person they may get hyper-responsibility based obsessions...and so on.

Personal perception of what it means to have faith, to be homosexual (or straight, or bi), to be reviled by society or prosecuted, to cause harm (even unintentionally or by omission) is where the obsession comes from. How you decide 'what it means' is totally individual, but people typically assume everybody else thinks as they do. Those with OCD often struggle to accept it is only personal perception/personal belief and not fact. 

We also know exactly why some worries only bother us for a while and others last longer. A specific worry will continue to bother you for as long as you give credence to the meaning you've given it. Challenge or change the meaning and the worry stops. 

Simple as that. 

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2 hours ago, Headwreck said:

I thought it was normal behaviour and everyone did this kind of thing.

:no: Definitely not normal to 'take everything so much to heart' and worry over it. 

Quote

 Why do these small pockets not last as long as others though?

Because you change the meaning you put on the obsession, or because you allow the meaning to become less significant. 

For example; 

Say you have a worry that you've done something illegal.  You give meaning to being caught, prosecuted (or falsely accused when innocent) such as 'I'd lose my job, lose my partner, be alone for the rest of my life, be beaten up in prison....  :(  or simply, ' That would make me a bad person and I can't live with myself unless I'm 100% kind and good 100% of the time...' Well if your entire life is hanging in the balance (according to you) then it'd no wonder that you'll remain worried for as long as that imagined threat hangs over you.  The worse the imagined outcome would be for you personally the greater the worry.  

Change the meaning you put on doing something illegal (eg. I know it's just not something I would ever do so I must have imagined it  OR ...OK, I made a mistake but I can forgive myself and put it behind me, it doesn't define me as a person...etc.) Now the outcome is bearable, the threat is reduced so the worry recedes. 

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10 hours ago, Headwreck said:

Thanks for the response, I guessed as much but part of  me wonders if it may be GAD as I was diagnosed with that at one stage although understand that GAD and OCD are often mixed up.

I thought it was normal behaviour and everyone did this kind of thing. For years I thought my OCD was just checking stuff but it's only been very recently (months) that I've noticed a lot of things I do are not actually things 'normal' people do or worry about. Why do these small pockets not last as long as others though?

That's just the way OCD rolls. Par for the course. 

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14 hours ago, snowbear said:

Actually that's not true. We do know.

We know exactly why one person obsesses over something and another doesn't. If the subject is significant to the person they will worry over it. For example; religious people get religious obsessions, people who are insecure about their sexuality get sexual obsessions, people who fear being a paedophile get paedophile obsessions, if 'being a good person' is important to the person they may get hyper-responsibility based obsessions...and so on.

Personal perception of what it means to have faith, to be homosexual (or straight, or bi), to be reviled by society or prosecuted, to cause harm (even unintentionally or by omission) is where the obsession comes from. How you decide 'what it means' is totally individual, but people typically assume everybody else thinks as they do. Those with OCD often struggle to accept it is only personal perception/personal belief and not fact. 

We also know exactly why some worries only bother us for a while and others last longer. A specific worry will continue to bother you for as long as you give credence to the meaning you've given it. Challenge or change the meaning and the worry stops. 

Simple as that. 

I have to respectfully disagree.  I have had obsessive fears about things happen that have no relation to other fears i've had before or are related to particular themes for me.  I've had fears that get "stuck" for a short time but then I "get over" and never have anxiety about again, while other anxieties have reoccured multiple times throughout my life.  One of my fears that I dealt with for awhile was fear that I might have a heart attack, a health related fear.  Yet at the same time I never worried about having cancer.  If the fears were based on a theme or an insecurity shouldn't I be afraid of all health related problems at once rather than one specific area only?  Why do I suddenly have an anxiety or fear that gets "stuck" related to nothing I'm particularly worried about otherwise?  I am also a religious person but i've never had religious obsessions.  I've seen people right here on this forum who admit to being agnostic/atheist yet develop religious anxieties.  While I think its true that sometimes our anxieties can be tied to issues that affect us in real life, in my experience at least, that is not always true.  Nor, does it seem to particularly matter.  Whatever my "theme" is, the anxiety still feels the same, the desire for it to go away, the urge to seek reassurance or to ruminate to "solve" it.

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2 hours ago, dksea said:

 While I think its true that sometimes our anxieties can be tied to issues that affect us in real life, in my experience at least, that is not always true.  Nor, does it seem to particularly matter.  Whatever my "theme" is, the anxiety still feels the same, the desire for it to go away, the urge to seek reassurance or to ruminate to "solve" it.

I largely concur - yes, anxieties can be tied to subjective issues, but often OCD is more arbitrary ...  random, fickle, than that. The one thing for sure is that a search for meaning or origin, much beyond mild cursory curiosity, only reinforces the 'validity' of an obsession. That's why non-specific generic CBT for say, depression, or low self esteem is the antithesis of therapeutic for OCD. 

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On 09/09/2018 at 12:40, Headwreck said:

I've noticed I have random 'episodes' of panic/obsession about random things that may last from a couple of hours to a couple of days.

I do too, always have unfortunately, and like you’ve also said, I also at first thought my OCD was just checking OCD. Just one example that springs to mind that I remember, was when I was only young probably 7, and I bumped in to a large lady, who was none to pleased I’d bumped in to her. A little while later I began to worry was she large because she was pregnant, and if she was did I harm the baby. That bothered and upset me for ages, and actually came up with my last therapist.

I’ve only actually realised in the last year maybe, just how much OCD has affected so many aspects of my life, and just how many themes I have or have had :sad:

I know I may sound like a stuck record, but since I’ve been on meds it has helped with me, and when I start to get an obsession or in a panic, I do my best to keep busy. It does help. I find it is that ‘pull’ though, the OCD constantly trying to get you to go over whatever it is that the obsession or panic is about, that is the hardest thing to deal with. That’s why I go out, or busy myself. I’m no gardener lol, but the other week when I could feel I was obsessing I decided to sweep the leaves and chop back the bushes in my garden - it was actually so therapeutic! :) 

It really is all OCD though, stay strong X

 

Edited by Dragonfly
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On 10/09/2018 at 06:32, dksea said:

I have to respectfully disagree.

   While I think its true that sometimes our anxieties can be tied to issues that affect us in real life, in my experience at least, that is not always true.  Nor, does it seem to particularly matter.  Whatever my "theme" is, the anxiety still feels the same, the desire for it to go away, the urge to seek reassurance or to ruminate to "solve" it.

We shall hopefully agree to disagree then, dksea.  :)  Though I suspect it's that I haven't explained it sufficiently well and have been slightly misunderstood. 

Quote

One of my fears that I dealt with for awhile was fear that I might have a heart attack, a health related fear.  Yet at the same time I never worried about having cancer.  If the fears were based on a theme or an insecurity shouldn't I be afraid of all health related problems at once rather than one specific area only?

No, not necessarily. :no:   Only if your fear was your health in general.

Fears often arenvery specific and therefore can seem illogical, such as worry over one health concern and not another. But the logic is there in that you will have assigned a meaning to having a heart attack, a meaning you didn't assign to having cancer. It's not the heart attack/cancer you fear but the perceived consequences of it. It could even be one specific consequence that you have come to connect with a heart attack which other people might totally discount or not connect st all. But for whatever reason, you give significance to it - and it's because you perceive it as significant that you react with fear/OCD.

 

Quote

Why do I suddenly have an anxiety or fear that gets "stuck" related to nothing I'm particularly worried about otherwise?

Because on some level you're mulling it over, giving it significance and meaning. If it was meaningless to you there would be no response. It doesn't have to be related to anything else, or anything that's going on in your life. People can develop obsessions over a random, spontaneous thought that comes out of the blue. It becomes an obsessive thought only because they latched onto it, wondering what it meant, giving it meaning, looking for meaning - it always comes back to meaning and interpretation. Always. 

Quote

 I am also a religious person but i've never had religious obsessions.  I've seen people right here on this forum who admit to being agnostic/atheist yet develop religious anxieties.

Religious people are more likely to have a crisis of faith than non-religious people, so religious obsessions are more common in those who have faith. (If you have no faith you tend to give less meaning to the normal doubts and questions about faith/lack of faith.) But as I said above, it's the meaning the person gives the thought at any specific time which matters. So any theme, any doubt is possible in any person.

The meaning we give to things and the significance they hold for us changes through life. That's normal as our personal circumstances alter and our life experience grows. Perceived consequences can also change - lessen or increase - which is why new obsessions can arise on a theme you've never had before, or vanish overnight on a theme you've worried about for decades. 

It's the fact that meaning/significance/perceived consequences IS open to change which is the basis for all CBT. Therapy is voluntarily changing the meaning you gave to your thoughts; accepting the interpretation you made at one time is not absolute or permanent, but is open to many different interpretations and that you are free to change it without consequence at any time. 

One of the things that keeps people stuck is they accept the interpretation/meaning can be changed, but they continue to believe in adverse consequences if they were to take that step - so they continue their 'preventative' or 'protective' compulsions (perceived safely rather than real safety.) 

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10 hours ago, snowbear said:

But as I said above, it's the meaning the person gives the thought at any specific time which matters. So any theme, any doubt is possible in any person.

I can't speak for other people, but for me, thats not how I have experienced OCD in my life.  I KNOW rationally that these things have no meaning, that say, the physical sensation that I am feeling is normal/benign/not what part of me fears it is.  The problem is not that I am deciding to worry about it more than other things or that I care about it more.  Its that despite knowing the reality, that there is a part of my brain that just won't let it go, that for whatever reason, the switch isn't switching over when the rational side evaluates and tries to dismiss the situation.  I can tell myself the thought is meaningless, the physical sensation I am having is normal/benign/not a symptom of the thing i'm not feeling anxious about,  that its just OCD.  I know this is all true.  The issue is the anxiety doesn't lessen when I do that and the thought keeps floating back up "what if...what if...what if...".  There's no logical reason why that thought at that time bothers me more than a different but similar thought at a different time.  I know why the thought of having a heart attack scares me, its the same reason it scares most people, because it means I could die.  But LOTS of things could cause me to die and I didn't get fixated on those.  Thats how I know that OCD isn't necessarily a logical progression of "this is a thing you are afraid of therefore you will obsess over it".  If that were the case there would be a clear causal line between any of a number of things I feel unpleasant about (say getting fired, getting killed, my family being killed, etc.).

In my experience its often just wrong thought at the wrong time.  For whatever reason at a given moment my OCD will be more likely to latch on to something and for whatever reason one of a million thoughts will pass through my head at that moment and get "stuck".  It could have been ANY anxiety/worry/fear.  It just so happened to be THAT one.  While its certainly more likely that it will be a fear i'm more likely to think about (say having a heart attack) than a fear that is not something that usually crosses my mind (falling in the Amazon and being eaten by pirañas) we know that OCD anxieties aren't logical and don't have to be connected to reality.  Why else can people be afraid that not touching a doorknob three times will cause an airplane to crash?

I agree that once they do get stuck we can reinforce our anxieties by believing they have more meaning than they should (which is why we perform compulsions to try and lessen the anxiety) and its important in recovery to work at disconnecting those fears from the reality of the situation.  But I don't think attaching meaning to a fear in first place is what causes it to become the thing we get obsessed over.  I feel like you are reversing the cause and effect on this one.  

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12 hours ago, dksea said:

I don't think attaching meaning to a fear in first place is what causes it to become the thing we get obsessed over.  I feel like you are reversing the cause and effect on this one.  

Possibly, for once someone has an obsession they will often look for meaning to explain their actions.

But I think it's more subtle than just 'cause and effect'. 

When you get the thought 'I could die of a heart attack' that thought doesn't occur in isolation (even if it's all you are consciously aware of at the time.) Your brain is simultaneously firing in several areas and collating all that it 'knows' about heart attacks and how you feel about them. I'm not saying you should go looking for details on this additional information as inward examination can too easily turn into rumination in OCD, but if you were to examine them you'd find that you've made a connection between heart attack and something else  which gives it meaning/significance for you. 

Touching a doorknob 3 times to prevent a plane crash isn't the least bit illogical if you have a (subconscious) belief that performing some kind of ritual has the ability to offset fate. Humans have held these kind of beliefs since they first walked the earth and though most of us now believe at an intellectual level there's no such thing as supernatural powers the primitive response is still there at an emotional level. OCD taps into that superstitious feeling, which is how perfectly sensible people can get caught up in illogical rituals. 

Anyway, I think we've gone a bit 'off piste'  :skiing: so I'm going to leave it there. You may still think I'm wrong and that's fine. :) Everybody is entitled to their opinion and I'm just stating mine as you are free to state yours.

Getting back to helping Headwreck, I still say that it's the meaning/significance given to the thoughts which determines whether they will become an obsession and how long it will last. So reviewing the meaning and changing it to something more realistic/appropriate at the earliest possible time will help reduce/stop the endless cycle of ruminating. 

 

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6 hours ago, snowbear said:

Anyway, I think we've gone a bit 'off piste' 

Heh, indeed.  Thanks for the good discussion!

I do agree with your advice to Headwreck though!  Refocus and try to avoid ruminating (even though thats easier than it sounds, I know!).

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