Jump to content

Getting over certain cleanliness issues


Recommended Posts

Hey all,

Given me recent bouts with OCD, I’ve spent the better part of a week avoiding any such trigger to use this place as a form of reassurance and get on with things and even though it has been hard, I’ve got on with things. I’m struggling with one incredibly difficult issue that I’m afraid that I can’t get over and that concerns my Autistic brother. I’ll be honest, the issue is severe that probably if my health was better that I’d move out of where I’m living right now. The issue is that he has no concept of cleanliness. Forget gluten, grease, touching bins and whatever, he does all that anyway. But he’ll go to the toilet for God’s sake and won’t wash his hands. I can’t handle this. My folks, they take it in their stride but any time he touches anything, I go into full blown melt down. I can’t even touch his clothes or hug him. It is a huge anxiety provoker. Honestly, he came into my room this afternoon to be nosy and even though I gave the door a quick wipe down, there are still parts I’ve missed and I still have anxiety over it. The truth is that most people wouldn’t have to deal with this sort of issue which makes it harder when you ask the question of what would anyone else do? Him and I don’t have a great relationship anyway at the best of times but I know this makes it worse and it is really upsetting. It really makes me want to sob at times. 

I really don’t know what to do or think or feel about this anymore - it’s too hard. 

Link to comment
  • Replies 55
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

This is entirely you and your OCD. Notice how it doesn't bother your parents. They don't go around wiping things down. Because there is little to no risk.

It's all an illusion. It's a big lie and you fall gor it, doing compulsions, which only strengthens the grip OCD has on you.

Link to comment

In your case - at the very least, you have to be able to try to bend that metaphysical metal coat hanger back, to reach where you need to be. Try to see the situation as a positive - as difficult as that sounds, a chance to hone your skills. Re how you feel, if you want to feel better, be prepared to feel worse. 

Link to comment

Thanks my friend. It means a lot. It’s like hell every day at the moment. I feel like I’m in a never ending cycle that I can’t break through. I can rationalise that it can’t be that bad but then I say to myself, why should I subject myself to just ok. And it’s not like I’m in good enough health to leave home. I am literally trapped. 

Link to comment

Hi BigDave. No real advice but I wanted to post that you're not alone. I had a job at a place that was quite disgusting in my mind - pretty much every trigger I have on a daily basis regarding contamination, and - to make matters worse - my cubicle was right by the toilets. Unfortunately it was all too easy to hear the activities within (I swear the door worked like a speaker) and I'd know every moment it was being used and hand washing was a very infrequent activity. One individual (credit to his regularity) would need to plunge the toilet (again, I could hear it all) after his visit each day and never once did I hear him wash his hands after. It was nasty. And that's not including other habits that would probably not be suitable for dinner table conversation.

Like you, I felt trapped. I still do at times. As an obsession "disgust" seems to be one of the toughest to navigate. Throw in responsibility and protecting my loved ones from this filth that, in my mind at least, exists. But it's getting better. I've nearly made it through my apartment and organized things. I left that job almost 7 years ago but was caught in the trap of "what if" I contaminated things at home after work. Much to my skepticism, a combination and a very gradual approach to CBT (working on the cognitive side of things first helped me) actually has given me my life back. The right help was key. So was patience with myself.

Edited by PaulM
Link to comment
On 15/09/2018 at 05:37, BigDave said:

I can rationalise that it can’t be that bad but then I say to myself, why should I subject myself to just ok.

Because "just ok" is what allows you to live a better life!  OCD makes us think we need absolute certainty, no doubt, no anxiety, but the reality is doubt and anxiety are a normal part of life.  Yes, hygiene and cleanliness are good things to aim for in general, but you have to balance that with the amount your life will suffer if you let the OCD control you.  No matter what you do its impossible to live in a world that is 100% clean, just like its impossible to live in a world with 100% certainty.  Your OCD is pushing you to need a level of certainty (and cleanliness) that is impossible to meet.  

I used this example in another thread and I think it works here as well.  I currently live in Japan, a country that experiences a fair amount of earthquakes.  Most of them are unnoticeable, some are noticeable but not troublesome and occasionally one is significant and very troublesome.  I take reasonable precautions (i have an earthquake kit at home, know what to do at work) but in my day to day life I don't spend time thinking about it.  That doesn't mean an earthquake can't/won't happen.  One could happen as I'm writing this post.  Or tomorrow.  Or next year.  I don't know.  But if i spent all my time dwelling on the possibility of it happening, I wouldn't be able to live a normal life.  Because most of the time, the vast majority of the time its NOT happening.  And even when it does happen, I'll deal with it, and then life will get back to normal.   Or, its possible I could be one of the few people who are permanently affected by it, through injury or even death.  I have no way of knowing, but i do know that not living now because of the fear of what MIGHT happen in the future isn't going to help me now OR then.  

A person with OCD doesn't react to anxiety in a normal, rational fashion.  We become trapped in a cycle of obsessive anxiety and compulsive response and get stuck, missing out on life along the way.  The fact that we have this condition and thus have to struggle with anxiety more than most people is not our fault, its an unfortunate turn of fate, but it is what it is.  We can either give in to it OR we can address it and get back control of our lives.  Yes it takes work, and yes its not always easy.  It would be great if we could take a pill or have an operation and OCD would vanish permanently.  But until thats the case, we have to do what we can now to move forward with our lives.

In your case you can continue to allow the anxiety you feel (anxiety that is understandably uncomfortable) to prevent you from living a more rewarding and fulfilling life OR you can take on the challenge of overcoming the OCD.  Its absolutely possible, and your life will be better for it if you do.  It won't happen overnight and its possible that you will be more anxious about cleanliness than the average person for the rest of your life.  But you also have the opportunity to get to the point where that anxiety doesn't prevent you from leaving the house, or getting a job, or enjoying whatever it is you find enjoyable in life.  All because you are willing to accept that "ok, its not as clean as I'd prefer, but I can't change that so I'm not going to dwell on it".  I hope you will take on that challenge, if you do I think you'll be happier for it.

 

Link to comment

Thank you all for your feedback and I actually can see a lot of sense in what you are saying. 

I think I’m terms of the big things, I think that is important to like you said do what’s manageable with what is excessive and I mean, you know, fighting a losing battle. I have to just accept that things aren’t as perfect as I’d like but also there is a point where I have to get on with life all the same.  It all makes sense. Of course, it’s very scary the thought of just saying that my brothers cleanliness I should just take it in my stride. 

I think that is which scares me the most and that is what keeps me up at night. 

Inevitably I’m going to have to deal with it but when a drop of urine on my leg freaks me out, meaning that I need to have a full shower, the idea of touching stuff my brother touches is very daunting. 

Thank you so much for caring. 

Link to comment
4 hours ago, BigDave said:

meaning that I need to have a full shower

There's where you need to be doing some cognitive work, Dave. A drop of urine on your leg means nothing. It isn't significant at all, needs no action, not even washing it off let alone a full body shower. Work on changing the meaning you give to your obsessions. 

Link to comment
On 22/09/2018 at 16:05, snowbear said:

There's where you need to be doing some cognitive work, Dave. A drop of urine on your leg means nothing. It isn't significant at all, needs no action, not even washing it off let alone a full body shower. Work on changing the meaning you give to your obsessions. 

You are right! In fact I’m sure you are right but my wee isn’t the only problem. My brother pees all over the place (he’s autistic). For my folks it’s annoying but not a disaster but for me it’s horrible. I’ll give you an example, tonight I went into the bathroom and there was urine on the floor. I washed my hands and was convinced water from my hands bounced on the floor and back up onto my leg with urine is. You’ll say I’m crazy but water can bounce so why not? Anyway, I had a panic and washed my leg but thought my clothes were soiled. In the end I stayed in my clothes out of spite and carried on but I feel disgusting because what if I have my brother’s urine on me. That is beyond gross. What is worse is that I’ve been having a bad time really early and I was meant to see my therapist today but a huge traffic jam meant I couldn’t get to him. Now I feel ridiculously vulnerable. 

Link to comment
21 minutes ago, BigDave said:

what if I have my brother’s urine on me. That is beyond gross. 

You are feeling revulsion Dave. Normal aspect of OCD, which tends to be based around falsehood, exaggeration or revulsion. 

So what if you catch a bit of someone else's urine when using the family toilet? It may not be pleasant, but it really isn't the off the scale grossness your OCD is telling you it is. 

And that is what you need to work on. Understanding how OCD works, why we sufferers think and feel the way we do, and why carrying out a physical or mental compulsion as a result of an OCD intrusion only ever makes things worse not better. 

Edited by taurean
Link to comment

Why should I? Apply that criteria and I would be washing myself all day every day against all kinds of " threats". 

There are only my wife and I at our home. Do we care about each others bodily fluids spilling on us in some way, around the home, in the shower or toilet? 

No. Why? We are intelligent people, and we see no fear or threat.

We don't have OCD whispering a false, exaggerated or revulsive core belief in our ear. 

Link to comment

No, but you can dump it. 

When we stop giving belief to, connecting with, or carrying out compulsions about OCD intrusions, they lose power and frequency. 

You have to work hard to cross the gain line beyond which the OCD starts to lose power. But when you do, the process becomes easier and easier, the gains greater. 

Link to comment

When we learn through CBT that our agonising intrusions are really just worthless nonsense to non-sufferers - things they would waste zilch time on - we can make progress. 

Here are two examples, from my own teen and younger years, of how an OCD intrusion really is just silly worthless nonsense. 

I dropped a florin (a two shilling piece from pre-decimal days) in a Woolworths store, and it rolled right under the display cabinets, out of my reach. It would be the equivalent of 10 P I think. 

So it wasn't a significant loss, and I just let it be and left. 

Then I started obsessing about that coin. Could it cause damage or danger where it was? Should I contact Woolworths and have them remove the display cabinets and reclaim my "threatening"  florin? 

After a few hours of pointless ruminating I applied what I now know to be a behavioural experiment to this issue. And I didn't know then that this was OCD. 

I considered the evidence for and against my florin causing a threat. And of course the answer came back no threat at all. 

I immediately stopped the ruminating, wrote off the value of the coin and forgot the whole thing. 

In modern CBT we use evidence in a behavioural experiment to test whether we think what OCD is saying is true, as opposed to us worrying that it is true. 

Some 48 years ago I applied that concept without knowing I had OCD, or that that would become an important tool in tackling OCD. 

And over the years I did so a few times. 

The other example involved a stay in a hotel in Holland as part of a school trip. 

I inadvertently dropped a spot of cigarette lighter fuel on the sheet in my room. 

I didn’t think any more about it at the time. But when I got home I had the thought that that speck of lighter fuel spilled on the sheet had caused the hotel to burn down! 

I had the compulsive urge to find a way to contact the hotel to check they hadn't burned down. 

At this point I sat down and thought this out and realised the intrusion was complete and utter nonsense. 

Having satisfied myself of that, I immediately stopped ruminating and forgot about the whole thing. 

This "behavioural experiment"  approach to tackling an OCD intrusion - is it true or are we just worried it might be true - is for me a powerful tool in the CBT armoury, and features prominently in the book "Break Free From OCD",  co-written by OCD-UK patron professor Paul Salkovskis. 

Edited by taurean
Link to comment
4 hours ago, BigDave said:

Interesting so you wouldn’t be bothered or having a shower or wash down afterwards?

Just to back up the great advice Taurean is giving you, I wouldn't react to this either.  I might think "ew gross" for a second, but then i'd get on with my life.  I definitely wouldn't shower down afterwards from a mere drop of urine which might or might not have splashed on me.  I appreciate that it gives you genuine anxiety, the feeling you have is real, but that doesn't mean the feared consequences are.

Link to comment
21 hours ago, dksea said:

Just to back up the great advice Taurean is giving you, I wouldn't react to this either.  I might think "ew gross" for a second, but then i'd get on with my life.  I definitely wouldn't shower down afterwards from a mere drop of urine which might or might not have splashed on me.  I appreciate that it gives you genuine anxiety, the feeling you have is real, but that doesn't mean the feared consequences are.

 

On 25/09/2018 at 21:42, taurean said:

When we learn through CBT that our agonising intrusions are really just worthless nonsense to non-sufferers - things they would waste zilch time on - we can make progress. 

Here are two examples, from my own teen and younger years, of how an OCD intrusion really is just silly worthless nonsense. 

I dropped a florin (a two shilling piece from pre-decimal days) in a Woolworths store, and it rolled right under the display cabinets, out of my reach. It would be the equivalent of 10 P I think. 

So it wasn't a significant loss, and I just let it be and left. 

Then I started obsessing about that coin. Could it cause damage or danger where it was? Should I contact Woolworths and have them remove the display cabinets and reclaim my "threatening"  florin? 

After a few hours of pointless ruminating I applied what I now know to be a behavioural experiment to this issue. And I didn't know then that this was OCD. 

I considered the evidence for and against my florin causing a threat. And of course the answer came back no threat at all. 

I immediately stopped the ruminating, wrote off the value of the coin and forgot the whole thing. 

In modern CBT we use evidence in a behavioural experiment to test whether we think what OCD is saying is true, as opposed to us worrying that it is true. 

Some 48 years ago I applied that concept without knowing I had OCD, or that that would become an important tool in tackling OCD. 

And over the years I did so a few times. 

The other example involved a stay in a hotel in Holland as part of a school trip. 

I inadvertently dropped a spot of cigarette lighter fuel on the sheet in my room. 

I didn’t think any more about it at the time. But when I got home I had the thought that that speck of lighter fuel spilled on the sheet had caused the hotel to burn down! 

I had the compulsive urge to find a way to contact the hotel to check they hadn't burned down. 

At this point I sat down and thought this out and realised the intrusion was complete and utter nonsense. 

Having satisfied myself of that, I immediately stopped ruminating and forgot about the whole thing. 

This "behavioural experiment"  approach to tackling an OCD intrusion - is it true or are we just worried it might be true - is for me a powerful tool in the CBT armoury, and features prominently in the book "Break Free From OCD",  co-written by OCD-UK patron professor Paul Salkovskis. 

I kind of figure that I just have have to see the consequences though at times, the problems are less life and death consequences and more stopping something from being perfect. 

I’ll give you an example. 

Whenever I go to the bathroom, especially for a no.2 but it can be applied to 1 also, I have severe anxiety. The actual process of going to the bathroom is almost crippling and I will change clothes. At night, I may take my shirt off before I go to the bathroom because I don’t want my shirt to touch the toilet seat. After wiping myself, I will hold my hands away from my body. After I pull my trousers up, my trousers to me are completely contaminated. If I was then to go **** first into my wall, I’d have to wipe the wall down. If I was to touch my lap afterwards, I couldn’t use my computer or phone without washing my hands first. I’ve spoke at my therapist at length about this and the whole idea that nothing is ever perfectly clean and I try to take that on board. And I think part of the problem is that my bedroom to me is, as well as the objects in them as contaminant free. While I can accept that if I go for whatever and the toilet and then sit on the couch or whatever, it’s gross but the level of anxiety of getting excrement on it is bad but not as bad as my room. I guess what I’m trying to say is that I’m under illusion that we are never perfectly clean and toilet Habits are a part of life. Everyone does it. Everyone has fragments of whatever on their clothes etc. That’s why we wash them. But I would literally hate myself forever if I soiled my room, my safe zone. It terrifies me. And if that means changing clothes after going to the toilet, part of me thinks it’s the best way. And I mean literally sometimes I have to wash my hair and face after going to the toilet because I felt a speck of something touch my face. 

I know all this is my OCD making me feel this way and there are lies. Part of the problem is that I tell myself it didn’t happen. But I know that’s a reassurance and it’s just a way to avoid the anxiety. Saying so what surely is the way to go but I can’t believe I should ever have to say so what to having poop in my room, maybe on my wall from my shorts touching it or on my bed or computer or remote controls. Same goes for pee. I mean I even avoid touching the bathroom doors and door handles or washing my hands afterwards before going to my room because I know my brother opens the door while on the toilet without washing his hands. 

Sorry for the rant. I’m feeling rather unwell tonight and it’s reinforcing my anxiety. 

Link to comment

So you continue to do a myriad of compulsions, which deepens the grip OCD has on you. Those compulsions are not making things better or safer for you. They are only making your situation worse.

Speaking of core beliefs, what do you think yours is?

Link to comment
5 hours ago, BigDave said:

Saying so what surely is the way to go but I can’t believe I should ever have to say so what to having poop in my room, maybe on my wall from my shorts touching it or on my bed or computer or remote controls. Same goes for pee.

Why not?  Why shouldn't you say "so what" to the idea that nothing can be 100% clean?  I appreciate that you feel very real anxiety over this, and I appreciate that it won't be easy to change your beliefs, that it will take time, but what do you gain by holding on to these beliefs?  It doesn't seem to make you happy to live the way you do.  It doesn't allow you to live an enjoyable life.  Is all the time and effort you put in to maintaining the behaviors you engage in post  toilet usage worth it?  Wouldn't it be better to be able to just go to the bathroom, wash your hands and get on with your day?

Link to comment
10 hours ago, dksea said:

Why not?  Why shouldn't you say "so what" to the idea that nothing can be 100% clean?  I appreciate that you feel very real anxiety over this, and I appreciate that it won't be easy to change your beliefs, that it will take time, but what do you gain by holding on to these beliefs?  It doesn't seem to make you happy to live the way you do.  It doesn't allow you to live an enjoyable life.  Is all the time and effort you put in to maintaining the behaviors you engage in post  toilet usage worth it?  Wouldn't it be better to be able to just go to the bathroom, wash your hands and get on with your day?

You make a really great. Fact is that I'm not happy. I really hate this and I know I go back and forth with my therapist about some of these points. It's just that despite my best intentions and experiments, something will happen like I get a bit of spray from flushing my toilet or I'll get a drop of wee on my leg and then worry I've spread it over my bedroom. Both these things happened recently. I tried to resist the wee. I really tried hard and I think maybe I focused on trying on it so much that I ended up wiping my DVDs twice just to be safe. I know that was the wrong decision. With regards to the toilet water, this is what I'm living with now. Desperately I'm trying to avoid it or thinking about it because it's just water. I should probably not obsess over it though. Just let the thought pass as a thought. It's so hard. So so hard. I know you guys understand and it means a lot to me. 

Link to comment

Dave I am currently wearing my OCD-UK enamel lapel badge inscribed with the words "just a thought".( If anyone wants one they, along with similarly worded wrist bands, are available from the store on the main OCD-UK website). 

And that is what all our OCD obsessional intrusive thoughts are ; not the lies exaggerations or revulsions OCD says they are - they are silly worthless nonsense. 

Obviously there are real threats and risks in life, of course there are - but OCD fabricates threats that aren't real ones. 

 

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...