Some advice - cleaning and germs

[gingerbreadgirl]

OK so the thing I'm worrying about is this (this is kind of gross so feel free not to read...!)

So yesterday at work I went to the loo and there was what I assume was wee on the seat. Before this ocd theme I would've just dried it with some loo roll, sat down and thought no more about it. I knew my oh would find it a bit gross but honestly I didn't really care, it's up to me how I live my life. So yesterday I decided to do that as an exposure, rather than hovering which would have been compulsive in my case. So I dried it, sat down and that was that. Now however I am totally fixated on it and keep thinking about whether I should say something, or whether I should clean our loo at home because I've sat on it. My OH knows there's something on my mind and she keeps telling me to forget whatever it is. I know she would find it gross though. I haven't cleaned the loo and I haven't confessed but I feel like I am teetering right on the edge, even though I know it will make my ocd worse. 

I am trying to tell myself that the best thing i can do for both me and my partner is to get better, and I need to do that by any means possible. I am seriously weakening though. How do I stop myself giving in??

[Gemma7]

I have been in situations like this a lot. If you want to shut it down, you first don't confess and second, go touch the toilet seat all over and rub your hands all over your home, that way you can't neutralise with a cleaning compulsion. If you do this I would set it up as an exposure, but remember no compulsions after to put stuff 'right'. You need to show yourself you don't care show your brain it might as well shut up because you are doing nothing about it.

[gingerbreadgirl]

Thanks gemma.  I literally can't imagine doing that, not right now.  BUT I have done an exposure in that before showering I went and used the loo my partner uses rather than the one I use (we have two loos, not a mansion  ) which sounds like nothing but was actually a massive thing to me that I'd been planning on avoiding. I've also done a few other exposures like avoiding washing my hands when I really wanted to and so on and then touching things round the house. 

I really thought this was the one ocd theme I was immune to but goes to show, it'll latch onto whatever it wants to!

Thanks gemma. Going to leave this behind now and try not to ruminate The big exposure will be when my OH gets home later and uses the loo, if I can get through not confessing then it will be a big step forward. 

Edited November 7, 2018 by gingerbreadgirl

[Gemma7]

Well it's something to aim for

Well done on all the other exposures though. It's going to take time so don't be hard on yourself if you give in now and again, just keep trying x

[gingerbreadgirl]

Thanks  x

Hope you are doing OK? 

[Gemma7]

2 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Thanks  x

Hope you are doing OK? 

Yeah I'm ok thanks, struggling at times but trying to carry on the fight. Sick of it though, just go away OCD, you are boring!

[Gemma7]

2 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Thanks  x

Hope you are doing OK? 

Yeah I'm ok thanks, struggling at times but trying to carry on the fight. Sick of it though, just go away OCD, you are boring!

[Gemma7]

Ooh my first accidental double post, how exciting lol

[gingerbreadgirl]

Sorry to hear you are struggling. Are things still improving on the whole though? You're right ocd is soooo boring! Why can't our brains put this much effort into something useful?!

[Gemma7]

Yes I'm doing more than ever, that's why it's so hard i think

[gingerbreadgirl]

Keep plodding, you'll get there in time - you so deserve to! 

[gingerbreadgirl]

So... my OH is just about to use the loo and I haven't mentioned any of this.  The urge to confess is overwhelming but I haven't and I'm really trying not to.  

Just can't get past the idea that it makes me a bad person, etc, etc, bla di bla. 

I know I need to ride this out come what may.  Gritting my teeth and getting on with it. 

[Guest OCDhavenobrain]

Also started to get worries about contamination. That is not totally accurate because I have always been afraid of viruses and such. I just find it so fascinating that it is so versatile.

It's all about not giving it importance.

[gingerbreadgirl]

So I didn't confess and I didn't clean or do anything to "fix" it - and now my anxiety has faded.  Yey! Feel more confident about being able to do other exposures now and not giving in.  

[taurean]

1 hour ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

So I didn't confess and I didn't clean or do anything to "fix" it - and now my anxiety has faded.  Yey! Feel more confident about being able to do other exposures now and not giving in.  

Yes! That's how to do it

 

[gingerbreadgirl]

Thanks Roy   I have done another exposure this morning  - two in fact. I am riding out the anxiety. I keep reminding myself that my partner doesn't benefit from me doing compulsions (even if she thinks she does!) - but she, and I, both benefit from me getting better. 

Edited November 8, 2018 by gingerbreadgirl

[taurean]

Exactly.

Roy 

Edited November 8, 2018 by taurean

[gingerbreadgirl]

So this has come up again this morning and we ended up having an argument about it.  My OH found out I was habitually doing something which she considers "gross".  Whenever my partner considers something to be "gross" then this is, in her mind, a fact and she finds it unbelievable that I would do it.  I don't want to get into the ins and outs of whether this thing is gross (because like most things, some people will think it is, some will think it's not).  The point is though that she thinks it's common sense not to do it, whereas it never crossed my mind - which makes me start going over all the other things I do/have done, and OCD rears its ugly head.

This is causing issues for both of us.  My partner is trying really, really hard to not talk about cleanliness and 90% of the time she doesn't and I know how difficult that is for her.  There have been many times where I have deliberately done an exposure in front of her and I know she wanted to say something and she didn't.  It is hard for her and I know she is making a massive effort not to feed into my OCD.  I can't really ask more than that - she can't just change over night, all she can do is try and she is doing that in spades. 

But she is human and sometimes her feelings come out and they have huge repercussions on me.  I know what I need to do exposure-wise.  But I can't do it without doing something I know my OH would hate and I mean really really hate.  

Before all this started I didn't think about any of this, and we both survived! But now I can't not think about it because the cat is out of the bag.  I have to do it knowingly and that feels very different.  

I feel very alone with this because when it comes to cleanliness, my partner is not rational, those feelings take over her and she finds it very hard to override them.  So I can't really speak to her about it because it's not really her I'm speaking to, but her crazy cleaning mind which takes over!

 

[Gemma7]

Can you come to a compromise on all of these cleanliness issues, one where you are happy and so is she? 

It's like the toilet seat thing (stay with me ), when a man and a woman share a house, if the man leaves the toilet seat up but the woman doesn't like that, he might then try to remember to put it down. This is not for him, but is a chore he's willing to adopt. 

Now bringing in mental health problems and this is where it gets tricky! The hypothetical man can't constantly worry if he has left the toilet up, he shouldn't check, he shouldn't beat himself up if he forgets, it's not his responsibility to make sure it is as the woman wants. It is simply a free choice that he trys to adopt. The woman on the other hand shouldn't get upset if he doesn't do a perfect job at it. Give and take. This is the goal for both of you. 

It's hard I know, I feel for you. Ideally she needs to learn how better to control her emotions when she becomes upset so you can have an open and honest conversation. Remember we are always here x

[gingerbreadgirl]

But if that guy knew that the toilet seat was of IMMENSE importance to the woman, and he left the toilet seat up deliberately anyway (because he knew it was good exposure) - should he beat himself up then? To me the intent is what makes the difference. 

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by gingerbreadgirl

[gingerbreadgirl]

What i mean by the above is that I am incredibly hypervigilant now of absolutely everything I do in terms of cleanliness, whereas before I wasn't at all.  I think I was quite normal in that respect.  But now because I'm so hypervigilant I am aware of everything I do, so if I make a "mistake" (in my mind) then I am totally aware of it and I have to decide: do I (a) leave it and treat it as exposure, (b) sort it by cleaning it or (c) confess to my partner? If I go with A then I am left knowing that I have knowingly and deliberately not fixed something which I know my partner would hate.  Whereas before it would have been accidental.  To me that's really different. If that makes any sense. 

Thank you btw for your thoughts and advice x

Edited November 18, 2018 by gingerbreadgirl

[Gemma7]

1 hour ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

But if that guy knew that the toilet seat was of IMMENSE importance to the woman, and he left the toilet seat up deliberately anyway (because he knew it was good exposure) - should he beat himself up then? To me the intent is what makes the difference. 

 

Firstly, it should not be of IMMENSE importance. If it is, then the woman needs to reevaluate what she expects from someone. Secondly, if the man had OCD and left the toilet seat up as an exposure then I imagine the woman would be aware that he left it up for his own mental health. What you describe sounds like a double exposure for both you and your wife. She unfortunately has to accept that your mental health and happiness is at stake. What wins a toilet seat or your health? 

And also, no one ever should beat themselves up, period. 

57 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

But now because I'm so hypervigilant I am aware of everything I do, so if I make a "mistake" (in my mind) then I am totally aware of it and I have to decide: do I (a) leave it and treat it as exposure, (b) sort it by cleaning it or (c) confess to my partner? If I go with A then I am left knowing that I have knowingly and deliberately not fixed something which I know my partner would hate.  Whereas before it would have been accidental.  To me that's really different. If that makes any sense. 

I really understand. Something has been brought to your attention and you can't forget it. But my point was, what is your point of view? What do you want to do? If you used to do nothing about said situation then you pick A always. It is the only thing that makes sense for you. If it didn't affect your OCD then fair enough you abide by whatever rules you want, but it does so that's that. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Gemma7

[gingerbreadgirl]

Hi Gemma,

Thanks for this.  It does make sense.  

21 minutes ago, Gemma7 said:

What you describe sounds like a double exposure for both you and your wife.

Yes you're right and strangely enough I think this has been good for both of us in some ways, I think this has been exposure for her. 

4 minutes ago, Gemma7 said:

 if the man had OCD and left the toilet seat up as an exposure then I imagine the woman would be aware that he left it up for his own mental health.

This is a good point and one that my partner accepts more than I do.  She basically wants me to do ERP but not tell her about the details.  But I struggle with this as it feels like deception.  So I do an exposure and then end up telling her about it, or "correcting" it so I don't have to.  Which makes me scared of doing exposure because I know I will have this dilemma.  So I then start to avoid doing things that I feel are unclean, or whatever.  

7 minutes ago, Gemma7 said:

What wins a toilet seat or your health? 

This made me laugh because I've put almost this very question to my partner.  She obviously thinks my health wins!! But often when I talk to her about this she has to silence this other voice (which I am sure is a mental health problem in its own right) and that voice is not rational, that voice thinks uncleanliness = unmitigated catastrophe.  This problem she has has never been so much of a problem until now.  I think we are now both realising how much of an issue it is.  

9 minutes ago, Gemma7 said:

 needs to reevaluate what she expects from someone.

My partner has been doing this a lot of late and I know she is feeling a lot of guilt around this, which I don't want her to feel.  She is making a big effort to change her stance and (like you said earlier today) to temper how she talks about things, to not talk about them with emotion or to not talk about them at all.  She is making a massive effort.  I got really upset about it earlier today and I know she felt responsible and I don't want her to feel like that.  But I don't know how to talk about it without sounding like I'm blaming her?

12 minutes ago, Gemma7 said:

what is your point of view? What do you want to do? If you used to do nothing about said situation then you pick A always. It is the only thing that makes sense for you. If it didn't affect your OCD then fair enough you abide by whatever rules you want, but it does so that's that. 

I think what I want to do is get to a point where I abide by the things we've agreed on prior to this, but not do anything extra, and not feel bad about that - even if I feel she wouldn't like it if she knew about it.  It's this last part that throws me.  I always envisage what she'd say/feel if she knew I did XYZ, and then I feel like I have to tell her/correct it (usually the latter).  I think what I need to do is do things without thinking too much, and if I do something "wrong" leave it be without ruminating on it or bringing it to her attention, and to stop seeing this as a deception but more something she doesn't need to know about. 

Thank you again for all your time, I really do appreciate it x

[Gemma7]

You sound like you've got a good idea of what's going wrong and how to change the cycle, you just need to start applying it now. 

19 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

But I don't know how to talk about it without sounding like I'm blaming her?

I think you and your partner are just trying your best, you just need to keep trying. Talking about something without sounding like you're blaming someone is a skill that I'm still perfecting. The key I find is to try to keep my emotions in check as much as possible and don't start sentences with you make me feel..... 

Also, listen to the song by Julia Michaels called Issues

[gingerbreadgirl]

Thanks gemma, I really appreciate this you've helped a lot, especially the part where you said we're just trying our best, as I think on some level I'd just expected us to be able to fix this (or rather just expected my partner to fix it for me) over night which isn't fair or realistic, and there's no rule book for this kind of stuff!!

I'll check out that song

Thanks, and hope you're OK xx