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Ok it’s been a long two years plus and I’ve put every ounce of energy in fighting this dreaded disorder, don’t get me wrong things are so much better than they originally was and so so much different and now I can live instead of just existing. Ive had lots of personal issues that have sometimes set me back but I’ve fought on regardless. However saying all that I’ve worked through things step by step and challenged myself and pushed myself where ever possible.

Im unsure if I’m being a little hard on myself maybe? That’s where I’m struggling. I’m now at the three final hurdles towards recovery and obviously these are going to be the hardest because these are the top end of my heirachy. I push myself out of my comfort zone and do my homework plus extras that I’ve not been set to do. My concern is that I am now filling the kettle 3 full 24 hours a week, making some food eg sandwiches etc and also going out alone daily and taking my dog a walk too. However this as took me a long time to get to this stage but I’m still proud of my achievements. What concerns me though is that with all the other compulsions I’ve worked through things slowly began to get better and the thoughts regarding them became less intense. The thing is that it still scares the living daylight out of me and I was hoping it would lesson over a period of time, I was filling the kettle 2 24 hours for 5 weeks and now I’m doing it 3 full 24 hours and it’s 5 week. I’ve tried everything that I’ve learnt through cbt with this but to no avail and I know I’m doing something wrong like giving the thoughts importance but I was hoping the more I did it the less anxious I’d become. Don’t get me wrong it’s a lot better than not being able to do this at all and rely on others to do it for me like I have for the last ten years plus but I’m worried because I really want to move forward with this. 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Many thanks as always lost :)

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2 hours ago, lostinme said:

I’ve tried everything that I’ve learnt through cbt with this but to no avail and I know I’m doing something wrong like giving the thoughts importance but I was hoping the more I did it the less anxious I’d become.

It is my belief that this is at the heart of your difficulty lost. 

Deep down inside I don't think you are accepting that you wouldn't carry out the action that you fear i.e. what the OCD is telling you.This would be why the anxiety is not reducing as you carry out the exposure tasks. 

At the back of your mind there is still that belief I think. I so feel for you, but as someone with another flavour of your problem theme I do personally understand how important this element is in recovery. 

The idea of the ERP is for us to carry out the feared task at the same time as we are mindful of the cognitive side of CBT i.e. that the OCD, here, is alleging that we could or would act in  a way opposite to one or more of our true core character values.And that it is all OCD, and we wouldn't actually act that way .This I think is where you need to take that leap of faith lost, and believe this, in order to get over this hurdle.

I also the think the problem is that this element of your OCD has been with you for so long that it is ingrained in your thinking and so much a learned behaviour because of that. Changing such a learned ingrained default behaviour needs some additional psychological tools, I think.

When that thought that you could act that way appears in your mental chatter, try focusing your thinking more into the task, and easing that intrusion outwards away from focus - towards the edge of your mental focus area.  Maybe try "blanking" that intrusion, imagining you covering the thought with a cloth. Also, think "oh that's just my silly obsession" - talking down to it, but re-framing it in fact for what it actually is.

To everyone else but we the sufferer our obsessional intrusive thoughts are just silly worthless nonsense  - it's only when through the cognitive and behavioural side of CBT that we can eventually subscribe to this view that we can render an intrusion benign. And when the intrusions  don't get attention, when they aren't believed, only then will  they begin to lose power and frequency.

 

Edited by taurean
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Coming back to that other element that inhibits recovery, lost, the life events that crop up and cause stress, which then worsens the OCD. 

Maybe work on accepting that from time to time, and sometimes in a run, such things are going to happen - you cannot do anything to stop them, or you no doubt would have. 

So, try dumbing down the annoyance and resentment they cause - taking the emotional response away. 

See them as the separate issues that they really are to your OCD. 

Maybe look to apply another psychological box to keep them in while you work on them, a mental box completely separate to your OCD. 

Imagined mental boxes work quite well for me, they segregate and compartmentalise normal lifetime issues away from OCD issues. 

Edited by taurean
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2 hours ago, taurean said:

It is my belief that this is at the heart of your difficulty lost. 

Deep down inside I don't think you are accepting that you wouldn't carry out the action that you fear i.e. what the OCD is telling you.This would be why the anxiety is not reducing as you carry out the exposure tasks. 

At the back of your mind there is still that belief I think. I so feel for you, but as someone with another flavour of your problem theme I do personally understand how important this element is in recovery. 

The idea of the ERP is for us to carry out the feared task at the same time as we are mindful of the cognitive side of CBT i.e. that the OCD, here, is alleging that we could or would act in  a way opposite to one or more of our true core character values.And that it is all OCD, and we wouldn't actually act that way .This I think is where you need to take that leap of faith lost, and believe this, in order to get over this hurdle.

I also the think the problem is that this element of your OCD has been with you for so long that it is ingrained in your thinking and so much a learned behaviour because of that. Changing such a learned ingrained default behaviour needs some additional psychological tools, I think.

When that thought that you could act that way appears in your mental chatter, try focusing your thinking more into the task, and easing that intrusion outwards away from focus - towards the edge of your mental focus area.  Maybe try "blanking" that intrusion, imagining you covering the thought with a cloth. Also, think "oh that's just my silly obsession" - talking down to it, but re-framing it in fact for what it actually is.

To everyone else but we the sufferer our obsessional intrusive thoughts are just silly worthless nonsense  - it's only when through the cognitive and behavioural side of CBT that we can eventually subscribe to this view that we can render an intrusion benign. And when the intrusions  don't get attention, when they aren't believed, only then will  they begin to lose power and frequency.

 

Yes I totally agree Roy, I know that with my past experiences that only doing the behavioural side alone doesn’t work, you also need the cognitive side too if not more so.

I know that I really need to work more around my core beliefs because this is still a big issue and that’s why I’m still struggling. I’m putting the work in but I still need more work cognitively and that’s where I’m struggling with this one. These are the main ones that leave me feeling that if I do something wrong I’m irresponsible, a bad mother/person etc you know where I’m going with this.

When I’m doing these things and getting these thoughts I know I’m still scanning even though I try my hardest to avoid doing it because I know it reassures me that things are still good and this is where my issues lie. I no longer have all the doors shut, bobbles on doors or things in front of them, counting, or cleaning products locked away etc. These things are no longer an issue except for the chemicals in the window and these seem to shout out at me I’m over here look at me and this is where the issue lies. 

I know that it will take time to change my ingrained behaviours that have been with me for years and that the behavioural side must be continued which I’m continuing to do, but for some reason I’m struggling with the cognitive side of things with these last ones and I’m not sure why.

A dear friend of mine as recommended another mindfulness top up course too which might also help me. 

Thank you Roy as always for your great advice it’s very much appreciated :)

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I think we have it right. 

And those ingrained OCD intrusions, acting on behalf of the underlying core beliefs, have not only got houseroom - it's like they've got debenture seats for the show of your life. :(

All the time that they court, and win, attention then their occupancy of those seats is assured. 

I think that is why I believe we must "think outside the box"  and find other psychological tools that diminish their power to shout out "hey look at me" - and get attention! 

The "blanking"  tool I mentioned could be adapted to suit whatever suits you. When the OCD intrusion cries out "look at me I am over here"  you could imagine just literally blanking it - pretending it isn't there - staring right through it; or you could imagine switching the sound off so it can't be heard. :)

The idea of easing an intrusion out of focus, then into peripheral vision, came from a self-help book. 

All the best lost. 

Roy 

Edited by taurean
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21 hours ago, taurean said:

I think we have it right. 

And those ingrained OCD intrusions, acting on behalf of the underlying core beliefs, have not only got houseroom - it's like they've got debenture seats for the show of your life. :(

All the time that they court, and win, attention then their occupancy of those seats is assured. 

I think that is why I believe we must "think outside the box"  and find other psychological tools that diminish their power to shout out "hey look at me" - and get attention! 

The "blanking"  tool I mentioned could be adapted to suit whatever suits you. When the OCD intrusion cries out "look at me I am over here"  you could imagine just literally blanking it - pretending it isn't there - staring right through it; or you could imagine switching the sound off so it can't be heard. :)

The idea of easing an intrusion out of focus, then into peripheral vision, came from a self-help book. 

All the best lost. 

Roy 

Thank you Roy :)

This is whats causing my issues I’m putting the behavioural work in but not getting to grips with it psychologically so this is what I need to do more work on. Hopefully by using some of your great advice I might be able to do the behavioural work differently and not zoom into the said items as soon as an intrusion occurs, but I still need to work on and find the right balance cognitively :) 

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Thank goodness we have these wonderful forums where we have the time to share resources to help each other. 

Best thing I ever did was finding the charity and the forums. 

I am really pleased to be able to help, lost. Good luck with your endeavours. 

(It may seem a strange time to respond, but I went to bed early after taking a decongestant tablet to help clear my right eustacian tube,which runs from back of the throat to the eardrum and if it blocks with sinus discharge it impairs hearing). 

Roy :fool::king:

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Hi lost :)

Firstly i want to say a huge well done for all that you have achieved, you have worked so so hard and you should be very proud :)

I don't think the problem here is a lack of cognitive work, unless that includes looking at why you are doing what you are doing and looking at what is keeping your problem going. The days that you fill your kettle yourself, what is the purpose of these days, what are you meant to be learning? That there is little risk, that you can live with the feelings of uncertainty/anxiety it brings on, that you are capable. Every exposure exercise should have a purpose to learn something, if you aren't learning then it is possible that you are just surviving day to day.

Also, the days you aren't filling the kettle is over half the week, this is not a criticism by the way, it's just the reality. On these days, you are unknowingly telling yourself that there is something to fear, that avoidance is necessary, in other words you build your belief that compulsions help. That's why when you come back to it, the feelings and beliefs around the task persist. Why haven't you gone from a day or two to forever filling the kettle yourself? To me the method you currently use is keeping you trapped between a theory a and theory b existence, arguably the hardest way to live from my experience. 

When you are filling the kettle yourself are you doing it completely safety behavior free, no checking, no avoidance of anything including thoughts. Remember compulsions can be hard to spot. Also, when you do fill the kettle for days, how do you feel, does your discomfort go up and down? If it goes up what makes it go up? 

Are you still worried that you’ll put something in the kettle like bleach? Has your therapist talked to you about making a cuppa with the bleach next to you open, because if i was you that's where i would be aiming.

Just some ideas for you, stay strong you'll get there :)

 

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17 hours ago, taurean said:

Thank goodness we have these wonderful forums where we have the time to share resources to help each other. 

Best thing I ever did was finding the charity and the forums. 

I am really pleased to be able to help, lost. Good luck with your endeavours. 

(It may seem a strange time to respond, but I went to bed early after taking a decongestant tablet to help clear my right eustacian tube,which runs from back of the throat to the eardrum and if it blocks with sinus discharge it impairs hearing). 

Roy :fool::king:

Oh bless you, hope your ok and your ears are feeling much better. I had this issue before after a really bad cold and the doctor told me to hold my head over a bowl of warm steaming water( not to hot so the steam burns) under a towel and this helps to clear the blocked tubes , it worked well. Hopefully this may help you:)

Yes it’s a great place to share our own experiences and hopefully help others, thank you as always for your kind advice it’s much appreciated :yes:

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I have been working through various methods to sort the tube, and it is much better. The problem is now more fluid in the inner ear ? 

Might try that inhalation method though. 

Hopefully it will clear away soon. 

Edited by taurean
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10 hours ago, Gemma7 said:

Hi lost :)

Firstly i want to say a huge well done for all that you have achieved, you have worked so so hard and you should be very proud :)

I don't think the problem here is a lack of cognitive work, unless that includes looking at why you are doing what you are doing and looking at what is keeping your problem going. The days that you fill your kettle yourself, what is the purpose of these days, what are you meant to be learning? That there is little risk, that you can live with the feelings of uncertainty/anxiety it brings on, that you are capable. Every exposure exercise should have a purpose to learn something, if you aren't learning then it is possible that you are just surviving day to day.

Also, the days you aren't filling the kettle is over half the week, this is not a criticism by the way, it's just the reality. On these days, you are unknowingly telling yourself that there is something to fear, that avoidance is necessary, in other words you build your belief that compulsions help. That's why when you come back to it, the feelings and beliefs around the task persist. Why haven't you gone from a day or two to forever filling the kettle yourself? To me the method you currently use is keeping you trapped between a theory a and theory b existence, arguably the hardest way to live from my experience. 

When you are filling the kettle yourself are you doing it completely safety behavior free, no checking, no avoidance of anything including thoughts. Remember compulsions can be hard to spot. Also, when you do fill the kettle for days, how do you feel, does your discomfort go up and down? If it goes up what makes it go up? 

Are you still worried that you’ll put something in the kettle like bleach? Has your therapist talked to you about making a cuppa with the bleach next to you open, because if i was you that's where i would be aiming.

Just some ideas for you, stay strong you'll get there :)

 

 

Hi Gemma,

Long time no see, hope your ok and still doing well:)

Thank you as always for your kind words and advice it means a lot, I’ve worked really hard over and over again and again to get to where I am now, but sadly I feel I’m hitting a brick wall at the moment:(

Your advice as really gave me pause for thought, I wouldn’t say I’m just surviving day to day? I’ve learnt that I don’t feel total dread and panic like I did before and that if push come to shove I can mostly cope alone. I only fill the kettle once and drink it, unlike before where I could fill it 20/ 30 times or more and still not drink it or until it felt safe before I could even attempt to. I am living with the anxieties and uncertainties caused from drinking it and realise the small risk associated with doing so. So hopefully even though I’m feeling stuck I’m still making some progress?

To be totally honest with you I do look forward to the days I don’t have to fill the kettle because on these days I’m glad of the break away from the anxiety it provokes not avoiding all my compulsions, at times it becomes a little overwhelming and I’m glad to get a breather. Don’t get me wrong though on the days that I’m not filling the kettle I’m still fighting not doing other compulsions regarding other issues, taking the dog out, going shopping alone, making sandwiches etc and other compulsions too and it can get quite exhausting, so I’m not just totally having days off so to speak. So yes to be honest on these days where I don’t fill them I do get some relief.

I agree totally with what your saying regarding theory A and theory B because before now when I’ve worked through each thing one at a time I’ve worked through each one not doing the compulsion at all. When brushing my teeth I had lots of compulsions surrounding it eg: counting, rinsing so many times, the doors shut something in front of them etc etc so so many to be honest but I worked through each one step by step but continually every single day until it no longer affected me and then eventually I reached the stage where I can brush them normally now. So I do totally understand what you are saying. But maybe it was easier then because I was working through compulsions singularly.

I think so yes? But when I get the thoughts I do tend to glance at the products there straight in front of me as I fill the kettle, possibly a little reassurance to see they haven’t moved? Not sure? My anxiety does go up and down sometimes it’s easier than others but I’m not sure why, maybe it would be helpful to take note of this.

He as yes, but I’m not sure I’m ready for this quite yet, we have put cleaning products around and about when making food and drink etc occasionally, but I’m not sure I’m ready for bleach yet? Or ready for every day? These are such hard ones :(

 

 

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1 hour ago, taurean said:

I have been working through various methods to sort the tube, and it is much better. The problem is now more fluid in the inner ear ? 

Might try that inhalation method though. 

Hopefully it will clear away soon. 

It’s worth a try Roy :)

Lets hope it sorts itself out pretty soon :)

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9 hours ago, lostinme said:

I’ve learnt that I don’t feel total dread and panic like I did before and that if push come to shove I can mostly cope alone. I only fill the kettle once and drink it, unlike before where I could fill it 20/ 30 times or more and still not drink it or until it felt safe before I could even attempt to. I am living with the anxieties and uncertainties caused from drinking it and realise the small risk associated with doing so. So hopefully even though I’m feeling stuck I’m still making some progress?

That sounds like excellent progress :) Basically, you now know you don't need to be any where near as 'safe' and careful as you used to be. 

 

10 hours ago, lostinme said:

To be totally honest with you I do look forward to the days I don’t have to fill the kettle because on these days I’m glad of the break away from the anxiety it provokes not avoiding all my compulsions, at times it becomes a little overwhelming and I’m glad to get a breather. Don’t get me wrong though on the days that I’m not filling the kettle I’m still fighting not doing other compulsions regarding other issues, taking the dog out, going shopping alone, making sandwiches etc and other compulsions too and it can get quite exhausting, so I’m not just totally having days off so to speak. So yes to be honest on these days where I don’t fill them I do get some relief.

I totally understand, I'm the same. Not responding to thoughts and doubts and anxiety is exhausting, so this does not surprise me, and you shouldn't feel bad about it at all. Also, i knew you'd be fighting other compulsions but was trying to focus only on the one that was bothering you :)

I think the thing that's important to remember is that on these days off you unintentionally say to yourself staying safe is better and buy into beliefs you are trying to fight. You need to know that so that when you come back to the task you can explain why it might still be hard.

10 hours ago, lostinme said:

But maybe it was easier then because I was working through compulsions singularly.

Well if you are finding this particularly hard, why can't you work on it singularly for a bit? Perhaps in a day, you are spreading your energy too thinly, meaning you can't really push on with this one. Once it becomes easier, you'll need less energy and will be able to do more. So what i mean is, you do the essential stuff in a day, like walking your dog say, but no extras that take your effort away from this task. Just an idea. 

 

10 hours ago, lostinme said:

But when I get the thoughts I do tend to glance at the products there straight in front of me as I fill the kettle, possibly a little reassurance to see they haven’t moved?

So obviously this is a check, and possibly the main issue. You fill the kettle in a 'safe' environment. You aren't ready for bleach open next to you or everyday. I get everyday, i would find the prospect very overwhelming but i don't get the open bleach. You fill the kettle everyday in a relatively controlled way which i would say is so much harder than filling it once with bleach open beside you. I think you would surprise yourself lost i really do if you set out that challenge. What is it that bothers you so much about it, what do you worry will happen? Have you thought of setting up a theory a/b for this, you don't need to do it, just plan it out? 

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11 hours ago, Gemma7 said:

That sounds like excellent progress :) Basically, you now know you don't need to be any where near as 'safe' and careful as you used to be. 

 

I totally understand, I'm the same. Not responding to thoughts and doubts and anxiety is exhausting, so this does not surprise me, and you shouldn't feel bad about it at all. Also, i knew you'd be fighting other compulsions but was trying to focus only on the one that was bothering you :)

I think the thing that's important to remember is that on these days off you unintentionally say to yourself staying safe is better and buy into beliefs you are trying to fight. You need to know that so that when you come back to the task you can explain why it might still be hard.

Well if you are finding this particularly hard, why can't you work on it singularly for a bit? Perhaps in a day, you are spreading your energy too thinly, meaning you can't really push on with this one. Once it becomes easier, you'll need less energy and will be able to do more. So what i mean is, you do the essential stuff in a day, like walking your dog say, but no extras that take your effort away from this task. Just an idea. 

 

So obviously this is a check, and possibly the main issue. You fill the kettle in a 'safe' environment. You aren't ready for bleach open next to you or everyday. I get everyday, i would find the prospect very overwhelming but i don't get the open bleach. You fill the kettle everyday in a relatively controlled way which i would say is so much harder than filling it once with bleach open beside you. I think you would surprise yourself lost i really do if you set out that challenge. What is it that bothers you so much about it, what do you worry will happen? Have you thought of setting up a theory a/b for this, you don't need to do it, just plan it out? 

Yes it’s great progress admittedly but I need to take that next step now and I’m unsure exactly how to progress from here or possibly even scared ? 

You have really opened my eyes because I hadn’t viewed it this way. I totally understand what you are saying and you are spot on right, so by doing this is only making it just as hard to do each week:( and that’s why I’m not feeling that things are improving. So something as got to change :yes:

I really would like to think I could possibly work on this singularly however the other things are just as important too because they are mostly connected to these last three hurdles on my heirachy and I don’t want to slip back with these either. I think I need to reconsider what you have said and try to make changes to my daily routines hopefully without letting other things slip at the same time. 

I will try doing theory A and b surrounding this issue and see how I get on, it might help me see things differently. It scares the hell out of me I’m petrified that if I did put it in the drink, food that I am an irresponsible person for not checking and it will make me very ill or possibly kill me or even others and it will be all my fault and I will get locked up or even die and my daughter will be motherless and she couldn’t cope without me etc:(

You are a very wise lady and you really have opened my eyes, because I hadn’t seen any of these things that you have kindly suggested. I know everything you have said and it’s spot on, only problem now is working on plans on how I can start to make some necessary changes.

Thank you again lost x

 

 

 

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Wow lost you are one impressive lady, do you know that? You open yourself up, challenge yourself and look for how you could improve, we should all be a bit more like you.

You can do this, it's ok to be petrified, that's how i feel, but we can and will do this! Just be patient with yourself, you're stronger than you think x

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42 minutes ago, Gemma7 said:

Wow lost you are one impressive lady, do you know that? You open yourself up, challenge yourself and look for how you could improve, we should all be a bit more like you.

You can do this, it's ok to be petrified, that's how i feel, but we can and will do this! Just be patient with yourself, you're stronger than you think x

Bless you Gemma thank you ? what a lovely kind thing to say, it made me feel so much better about myself and that I can and I am capable of doing this :yes: i just need to put things into a good plan of action now :yes:

Thank you so much for spending the time and sharing such great advice with me, it’s been a real eye opener, a good positive one that I can make changes and start to work from. 

We can do this, we are stronger than we think, we are all very courageous people :cheer: All for one and one for all x

 

 

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