Becoming obsessed with thoughts - things getting worse (Merged Thread)

[Guest Phil10]

7 minutes ago, taurean said:

So is that it? Toss in the towel, accept you are beaten - even though in your heart of hearts you know it's just plain old OCD? 

No it's not. Because, as with all of us, we can change our thinking and behavioural response to the intrusion. 

When that seed of doubt and/or an intrusion come calling treat it as if it's just OCD, even if there is doubt, and refocus your mind away from it without believing a resultant chain of contamination, and catastrophising. 

And keep on doing that, whatever the OCD tries to "shout in your ear". 

This will be really tough at first, but it will start to become easier. 

I just feel disillusioned by the ocd right now. I feel hopeless as compulsions have failed so my relief blanket has gone. Had I put the towel on the floor it would be the floor I worried about not the towel rail so can’t win can I? Should I touch the towel rail and then my phone or should I like the front door, the radiator and the iron admit defeat and avoid using it? 

I said before ocd going from mild to severe was an issue for me. My ocd developed beyond the usual hand washing , checking, counting or the usual themes. The condition has become compliex and deep issues like existance stuff that your usual ocd books don’t cover. I’m at a mental block I struggle to challenge these thoughts becuase the thoughts fight back. 

I am slowly coming to terms with maybe using one strimmer I find if I slowly ease my way back in it helps. Touching only a small piece of my phone today helped as small steps work. The reason I have to use the one strimmer is the other one seems on the way out. And as I mentioned money is tight so even if I wanted to replace I probably couldn’t. 

[PolarBear]

2 hours ago, Phil10 said:

Well I can’t wear these clothes today. I can wear them when the event comes but as I said the ocd and anxiety will come. 

So? It's just anxiety. It won't kill you. All sufferers have to get used to some anxiety. But there are things you can do to lower your anxiety over time.

[Guest Phil10]

3 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

So? It's just anxiety. It won't kill you. All sufferers have to get used to some anxiety. But there are things you can do to lower your anxiety over time.

That is true but surely I want to wear these clothes and not feel these anxieties or thoughts? If I have anxiety I believe the ocd is winning. The only way I can beat the ocd is to not feel anxiety. ?

[PolarBear]

5 minutes ago, Phil10 said:

I just feel disillusioned by the ocd right now. I feel hopeless as compulsions have failed so my relief blanket has gone. Had I put the towel on the floor it would be the floor I worried about not the towel rail so can’t win can I? Should I touch the towel rail and then my phone or should I like the front door, the radiator and the iron admit defeat and avoid using it? 

I said before ocd going from mild to severe was an issue for me. My ocd developed beyond the usual hand washing , checking, counting or the usual themes. The condition has become compliex and deep issues like existance stuff that your usual ocd books don’t cover. I’m at a mental block I struggle to challenge these thoughts becuase the thoughts fight back. 

I am slowly coming to terms with maybe using one strimmer I find if I slowly ease my way back in it helps. Touching only a small piece of my phone today helped as small steps work. The reason I have to use the one strimmer is the other one seems on the way out. And as I mentioned money is tight so even if I wanted to replace I probably couldn’t. 

I want you to slowly read this and really try to understand.

Lately you've been going on and on about how your OCD is different, how it's more complex, as if you are somehow different from other sufferers.

You're not! It's just average, everyday OCD. You have intrusive thoughts that cause distress and lead to compulsions. That's it. That's all that OCD is.

Your OCD has gotten more severe over time? Welcome to the club. OCD almost always gets worse over time, if left unchecked. The more compulsions you do, the worse your suffering will be.

Your compulsions don't work anymore? They never did. You did one, you got another thought, you did another compulsion and on and on... what was working about that?

Sorry, Phil. You're just like other sufferers. Your exact obsessions might be unique but it's still plain, old OCD. And exactly the same treatment we teach others will work for you if you take a leap of faith and do the work.

[PolarBear]

6 minutes ago, Phil10 said:

That is true but surely I want to wear these clothes and not feel these anxieties or thoughts? If I have anxiety I believe the ocd is winning. The only way I can beat the ocd is to not feel anxiety. ?

Well that's plain wrong. You beat OCD by reaching a state where you do not react to obsessions and you refuse to allow the thoughts to bother you. Less anxiety is a result of doing that.

[Guest Phil10]

12 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

Well that's plain wrong. You beat OCD by reaching a state where you do not react to obsessions and you refuse to allow the thoughts to bother you. Less anxiety is a result of doing that.

Yes but my ocd remains untreated unchecked as you say it gets worse.  I’ve tried thearpy that’s failed. I’ve come to a conclusion I may always be suffering like this. I said already I don’t buy into exposures therapy.

I am unable to digest this information on ocd so perhaps I am a case where I can’t be helped perhaps I always will suffer? 

I have had a massive amount of information books dvds YouTube videos theripsts and nothing gets through. 

So I would ask why? I will say why becuase I have a major stress in getting married nothing will improve until that wedding passes. Ocd will thrive on big life events as it was triggered by me moving house.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Phil10

[PolarBear]

I'm sorry that you don't 'buy into' exposure therapy. Since it is a critical component of CBT for OCD, and you won't do it, you cannot sit there and say therapy doesn't work for you! That's like getting a prescription from your doctor, refusing to tske the pills and ckaiming drugs don't work for you.

Yes, real life stress makes OCD worse. It is also true that OCD gets worse the more compulsions you do.

 

[Guest Phil10]

1 minute ago, PolarBear said:

I'm sorry that you don't 'buy into' exposure therapy. Since it is a critical component of CBT for OCD, and you won't do it, you cannot sit there and say therapy doesn't work for you! That's like getting a prescription from your doctor, refusing to tske the pills and ckaiming drugs don't work for you.

Yes, real life stress makes OCD worse. It is also true that OCD gets worse the more compulsions you do.

 

I will be honest and say I use an anxiety programme which says removing the anxiety cures the ocd so that’s why I don’t buy into it. I won’t say which one as it costs money but for me it’s the cure. It helps more with the anxiety than the ocd thought but funnily enough I find if I remove my anxiety the ocd doesn’t exist. 

For me deliberately touching a bin doesn’t work I may still want to wash my hands and often in real life situations exposes can come up anyway and you can deal with them rather than pointlessly force an exposure 

I have to be realistic though right I have a wedding I won’t be cured in 3 months? The chances are I will get worse in that time money’s tight I can’t afford more therapy not much hope for me is there? The above treatment I mentioned treating the anxiety is like homework I don’t have time to practice to keep the anxiety at bay. Non anxiety suffers don’t have to do this **** when I come in from work I want to put the tv on and forget my day but I can’t because of my ocd. 

[PolarBear]

Sorry, Phil, we follow the only scientifically proven treatment for OCD, which is CBT, including ERP. If you're looking for something else, you are wastung your time here.

I will say that you say you adhere to another method for treating OCD... how's that working for you? You're a wreck. It ain't working, bud. It ain't working at all.

[Guest Phil10]

3 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

Sorry, Phil, we follow the only scientifically proven treatment for OCD, which is CBT, including ERP. If you're looking for something else, you are wastung your time here.

I will say that you say you adhere to another method for treating OCD... how's that working for you? You're a wreck. It ain't working, bud. It ain't working at all.

Yes it’s not working becuase it requires too much home work reducing the anxiety and listening to relaxation. I admit I am lazy I mean it does work I have went months and years with little anxiety with it but I moved house last year and wow that was me down the rabbit hole again worse than ever. Exposure and Cbt also require work and again like I say I want to come in from work sit and relax like anybody and not have these intrusive worries. The issue with Cbt is it’s about management of ocd where as the method I use eliminates anxiety. Does it do it permanently well yes but it’s easy to slip back into old ways which I have done.

[PolarBear]

You have swallowed someone else's hokum, Phil. CBT is NOT about management of OCD. Where did you get that? 

CBT is the only evidence based approach to ending OCD. That means eliminating compulsions, a severe drop in intrudive thoughts and a large drop in the distress (anxiety) caused by obsessions.

Look, it's clear you are never going to take our advice. So why are you here? Many, many people here have offered you advice but you basically dismissed it all in your last vouple of posts.

Again, if you have no intention of tsking our advice, why are you here?

[Orwell1984]

17 minutes ago, Phil10 said:

where as the method I use eliminates anxiety. Does it do it permanently well yes

This sounds like the biggest load of pseudo **** I’ve heard in a long time. There is no such thing as living with no anxiety. How else did humans evolve? This sounds like linden nonsense to me.. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Orwell1984

[Guest Phil10]

7 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

You have swallowed someone else's hokum, Phil. CBT is NOT about management of OCD. Where did you get that? 

CBT is the only evidence based approach to ending OCD. That means eliminating compulsions, a severe drop in intrudive thoughts and a large drop in the distress (anxiety) caused by obsessions.

Look, it's clear you are never going to take our advice. So why are you here? Many, many people here have offered you advice but you basically dismissed it all in your last vouple of posts.

Again, if you have no intention of tsking our advice, why are you here?

I do take the advice and anything I have read about Cbt is it’s about management it ocd or anxiety not a cure. I have never heard of Cbt as a cure. I have evidence of that becuase I read daily posts on anxiety sites that show people who are in Cbt or had it and are still suffering. The tool I use eliminates anxiety and has a proven record. Like I say I am taking the advice however I can’t sit here and defend Cbt I have had various theripsts over the years nothing has worked for me from my experience. The tool I use is the only time I’ve felt anxiety free.

[PolarBear]

1 minute ago, Orwell1984 said:

This sounds like the biggest load of pseudo **** I’ve heard in a long time. There is no such thing as living with no anxiety. How else did humans evolve? This sounds like linden nonsense to me.. 

Just what I was thinking.

[Guest Phil10]

1 minute ago, Orwell1984 said:

This sounds like the biggest load of pseudo **** I’ve heard in a long time. There is no such thing as living with no anxiety. How else did humans evolve? This sounds like linden nonsense to me.. 

Yes we all have anxiety but I mean elimination of unwanted anxiety it is possible to reset that level to a normal one 

[Orwell1984]

1 minute ago, Phil10 said:

Yes we all have anxiety but I mean elimination of unwanted anxiety it is possible to reset that level to a normal one 

But it will never be possible to reset your anxiety level by doing the very things that give rise to it. Every time you do a compulsion, you are giving credence and validity to the intrusive thought. Your brain learns by your behaviour. This is why if you stop certain compulsive behaviours, your brain will learn to not pay attention to the intrusive thoughts. The side effect of this is, the intrusive thoughts become less frequent 

[PolarBear]

Just now, Phil10 said:

I do take the advice and anything I have read about Cbt is it’s about management it ocd or anxiety not a cure. I have never heard of Cbt as a cure. I have evidence of that becuase I read daily posts on anxiety sites that show people who are in Cbt or had it and are still suffering. The tool I use eliminates anxiety and has a proven record. Like I say I am taking the advice however I can’t sit here and defend Cbt I have had various theripsts over the years nothing has worked for me from my experience. The tool I use is the only time I’ve felt anxiety free.

Brutally honest, I won't be trying to help you now. I realize now that all my posts to your threads, and those of everyone else who has tried to help you  have been a complete and utter waste of time.

You bought into some Internet bull hawked at $49.95 that purports to be the cure, which goes against nearly all trained therapists the world over.

Many, many people gave been helped with CBT and many of them have reached 'cure' status. I am one of them. No hocus pocus. Just CBT with ERP. I am fully recovered. And I have spent an hour or two every day for rhe past five years helping others. 

If you are doing compulsions, you are not cured. Period.

Oh well. Better this comes out now than five years from now. I am royally ticked off right now but I should have figured it all out long ago from your refusal to try anything new.

[Guest Phil10]

1 minute ago, Orwell1984 said:

But it will never be possible to reset your anxiety level by doing the very things that give rise to it. Every time you do a compulsion, you are giving credence and validity to the intrusive thought. Your brain learns by your behaviour. This is why if you stop certain compulsive behaviours, your brain will learn to not pay attention to the intrusive thoughts. The side effect of this is, the intrusive thoughts become less frequent 

Yes you are correct I am trying this there’s is a few win situations where I never replaced the front door I kept the old irons and I used the new strimmer further down the back garden. The thoughts do become less but they annoy me because they can still come. Often I do something and my rational head says it’s ok then the ocd comes in and I worry about it.

[Guest Phil10]

2 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

Brutally honest, I won't be trying to help you now. I realize now that all my posts to your threads, and those of everyone else who has tried to help you  have been a complete and utter waste of time.

You bought into some Internet bull hawked at $49.95 that purports to be the cure, which goes against nearly all trained therapists the world over.

Many, many people gave been helped with CBT and many of them have reached 'cure' status. I am one of them. No hocus pocus. Just CBT with ERP. I am fully recovered. And I have spent an hour or two every day for rhe past five years helping others. 

If you are doing compulsions, you are not cured. Period.

Oh well. Better this comes out now than five years from now. I am royally ticked off right now but I should have figured it all out long ago from your refusal to try anything new.

I don’t agree it’s a waste of time and nor do I agree it’s a fad which I have been using. It’s been on tv before and celebs have used it to get better. And the person who wrote it also went to endless Cbt and meds for years before finding that cure for anxiety and he now helps others.

I am here for support however I repeat I can’t say Cbt is helpeful becuase I spent £300 on it and I was no better.

[Guest Phil10]

Also I am not doing compulsions becuase I don’t replace items at the moment 

[Orwell1984]

Phil- what is your plan of action to get well? You know that if you continue on the way you have been doing, your partner will in all likelihood be looking to escape your relationship. This is because the ocd will be getting stronger and you will be more frustrated and taking it out on the people you care about. You will be so consumed by the ocd, you won’t even realise your behaviour is that toxic. 

What do you plan to do?

[Guest Phil10]

5 minutes ago, Orwell1984 said:

Phil- what is your plan of action to get well? You know that if you continue on the way you have been doing, your partner will in all likelihood be looking to escape your relationship. This is because the ocd will be getting stronger and you will be more frustrated and taking it out on the people you care about. You will be so consumed by the ocd, you won’t even realise your behaviour is that toxic. 

What do you plan to do?

I don’t believe this will happen. People seem very worried about my partner but she knows what my ocd is like. My plan of action is to some how hope after the wedding it all settles down. I thought after I moved house it would but no. I don’t have a crystal ball though I have no idea how bad this will get maybe it will get better? But yes I have no idea how this will go..

[Hal]

Hi Phil...the anxiety programme you follow isn’t by any chance The Linden Method? 

You don’t have to say if you don’t feel comfortable, I just wondered.

[dksea]

46 minutes ago, Phil10 said:

Also I am not doing compulsions becuase I don’t replace items at the moment 

You are 100% doing compulsions.  Your daily (sometimes multiple times a day) OCD diary posts on this forum are a compulsion.  Your avoidance of things is a compulsion.  Your rumination is a compulsion.  You are lying to yourself (and us) by saying you don't engage in compulsions.  You have stopped replacing items?  Thats good, but its only one part of the process.  Saying because you stopped that one compulsion you don't have any other compulsions is like saying you stopped eating donuts, therefore you aren't eating junk food anymore, all while snacking on crisps, and pizza, and cola, and who knows what else.  Unless/until you admit to these compulsions, you will remain stuck.

 

1 hour ago, Phil10 said:

I will be honest and say I use an anxiety programme which says removing the anxiety cures the ocd so that’s why I don’t buy into it. I won’t say which one as it costs money but for me it’s the cure. It helps more with the anxiety than the ocd thought but funnily enough I find if I remove my anxiety the ocd doesn’t exist. 

So you have this "cure" but your OCD and anxiety keeps getting worse.  You post on here more than any other suffer I have seen in a long time, just look at the length of this thread, you detail daily all the ways in which your OCD is controlling your life.  In other words the "cure" you are using isn't working at all.  If it was, you wouldn't be here.

 

2 hours ago, Phil10 said:

The only way I can beat the ocd is to not feel anxiety. ?

No, this is an impossible goal.  Anxiety is a normal part of life.  If you're goal is to never feel anxiety then I'm afraid you'll never be able to reach your goal.  The way to beat OCD is to recognize that the anxiety isn't going to harm you, to learn to avoid going in to anxiety spirals by responding to OCD with compulsive behavior, to retrain your brain to recognize intrusive thoughts for what they are, pointless garbage.  There are scientifically proven ways to do this, CBT and ERP (possibly with the help of medication).  If you want to reject this evidence based approach then thats your choice, but there isn't really much we can do to help you in that case.

 

47 minutes ago, Phil10 said:

My plan of action is to some how hope after the wedding it all settles down. I thought after I moved house it would but no. I don’t have a crystal ball though I have no idea how bad this will get maybe it will get better? But yes I have no idea how this will go..

Lets say after the wedding things are a little bit less stressful for awhile and things "settle down" a little.  Then your partner accidentally brushes against something you think is contaminated and touches something else, before long your whole house is contaminated.  Now you feel like you have to move again.  Are you gonna move houses?  The problem is still there.  Stress exacerbates it, yes, but it doesn't just go away when especially stressful events are over.  And what happens when there is the next bit of stress in your life?  Extra demands at the job, you have a child, someone gets sick, you get in a fight, etc.  Stress happens in life, and if your plan is to just "hope it goes away" then you are setting yourself up for problems if/when it doesn't just go away.
 

1 hour ago, Phil10 said:

The tool I use eliminates anxiety and has a proven record.

1. Its impossible to eliminate all anxiety, anxiety is a normal part of human existence
2. If this tool has a proven record then you can surely provide us with links to scientifically verified evidence that it works?  Independent studies that have been conducted and peer reviewed?  Or is the proven record only available from the people selling this "tool" to you and you can only see the information if you pay for it?  My guess is its the latter, which is exactly how a scam works.  With CBT there is decades of evidence to show how effective it is, that evidence can be reviewed by anyone, and it has been independently studied and verified.  You can see the data,  you can know what it says all before you start treatment.
3. If the tool you use is so effective, then why are you here?  Why are you not cured?
 

1 hour ago, Phil10 said:

Does it do it permanently well yes but it’s easy to slip back into old ways which I have done.

This statement is 100% contradictory.  Either something is permanent or its not.  If its "easy to slip back in to old ways" then its not permanent.  If it was actually permanent then why wouldn't you complete whatever it is so all this suffering goes away?  I know that if I had had access to a tool that meant I never had to think about my OCD ever again for the rest of my life I would have done everything it asked  and then some!  That would be the only rational thing to do!  And yet here you are, with access to this cure and yet you are not cured?  Perhaps its that you haven't finished the "treatment" yet, ok, but in that case why are you wasting your time on anything else?  And perhaps its because the "cure" is in fact not a cure at all.

 

2 hours ago, Phil10 said:

I said already I don’t buy into exposures therapy.

I am unable to digest this information on ocd so perhaps I am a case where I can’t be helped perhaps I always will suffer? 

I have had a massive amount of information books dvds YouTube videos theripsts and nothing gets through. 

 

1 hour ago, Phil10 said:

I am here for support however I repeat I can’t say Cbt is helpeful becuase I spent £300 on it and I was no better.

You refuse to do the tasks that CBT requires (such as ERP) then you say it is not helpful.  Thats like paying for a physical trainer, refusing to do the exercises they recommend, and then saying they are a bad trainer.  Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

Yes these are support forums, but that support includes actually working to get better, if you are going to reject the advice and information we have to offer, the experience we have all gained, then you are not looking for support, you are looking for enablement.  You want this forum and its members to do things your way, to enable your behavior, to tell you that what you are doing is ok, even when we know its not working.  You want to use this forum as your personal anxiety diary.  The kind of "support" you want is counter productive to improvement and is just a waste of everyones time and energy.   Just look at this thread, 3 months old, 11 pages long.  And that overlaps with a previous thread you started that stretched for 5 months and 21 pages long. Look through the other recent threads on this forum, nothing comes remotely close to that.  

While OCD is the underlying problem, the bigger problem right now, Phil, is your unwillingness to listen to the advice you are being offered and refusal to accept what is necessary to overcome your OCD.  Many of us have spent a lot of time and effort trying to help you, trying to get you to understand what is necessary for you to accept and to do in order to improve your condition.  Its ultimately your choice how to live your life, but given your continued position to reject the evidence based approach in treating OCD, there just isn't anything left to offer.  I sincerely hope you change your mind someday and are able to overcome your OCD, but I'm afraid there is nothing left I can offer you (and I think thats true of the forum in general, but others are free to try).


 

[taurean]

I have to go along with PolarBear and declare "I'm out". I have given what I can, but it isn't being followed. 

Will now set the thread to unfollow. 

All the best Phil.