Jump to content

Becoming obsessed with thoughts - things getting worse (Merged Thread)


Guest Phil10

Recommended Posts

32 minutes ago, Orwell1984 said:

What a waste of time.

I don’t mean that disrespectfully to you Phil. Recovery will take whatever time it takes for you. It’s your choice to commit or not. I’m just a bit miffed that hours of writing has gone into all the replies to you, from everyone here. I only hope that somebody else reading the advice gains the confidence and direction to fight back against their own ocd. Then it wouldn’t have been a waste.

Link to comment
  • Replies 357
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

1 hour ago, Phil10 said:

Reading back doesn’t help as I have new issues each day.

That’s slightly taken me aback too Phil.

Whatever the new issue is you can apply the same tools that have been suggested to you over the last couple of months. 

Will you consider going back to your GP and getting a referral for specialist help through the NHS? I really think you need more professional support to help you make some headway.

Link to comment

We aren't asking you to read about those new issues every day. 

But how we told you to deal with them. 

And it wasn't that CBT wasn't working for you - you gave up applying it before you had overcome the power of your obsessions and compulsions and, surprise surprise, they won back control. 

Phil, these "new issues every day" aren't new manifestations of OCD - it's still the same old theme of contamination, connections, and the compulsion to replace,  ruminate - and write a thought log here. 

You can't be bothered to scroll back through the thread to find out how we told you to deal with this. 

Well, I can't be bothered to repeat that guidance.

As we have said before we are volunteer helpers choosing to give freely of our time (and in my case very recently money in the form of two extra donations to our charity providing these forums free to air). 

The advice you have been given is terrific. But we are not going to maintain this cycle. 

Please look back through the thread, find out what to do and start applying it. 

Or, if you like, find the notes from your private CBT and reapply what they said. 

To get better we have to keep applying what we are taught to do until it becomes second nature, we stop believing in - and giving houseroom to - the intrusions, stop carrying out compulsions, and get better. 

It's over to you, you have a choice on how to get back on track towards recovery, or stay locked in this self-perpetuating cycle of distress. 

You can do this, like me you can get better. I did the work for the sake of my beloved wife and our marriage. You have similar considerations which ought to be a driver for you to make the right choices. 

Edited by taurean
Link to comment
Guest Phil10

I am struggling today last night a piece of tissue fell down side of toilet I picked it up and worried I hit the toilet plunger despite it being on the opposite side. My ocd is worrying if I bin it I will worry the floor is dirty and I will worry bin is even more dirty? If I was it I will worry the washing machine has toilet plunger germs in it and all my clothes will be dirty? What can I do? Either option will cause me anxiety 

Link to comment
Guest Phil10
6 minutes ago, Orwell1984 said:

It is all dirty. 

Yes exactly the bin is dirty the clothes are dirty but I just fear toilet plunger germs spreading it may be unlikely I hit it but my ocd goes with the fact I did. Perhaps the washing can come out the machine clean but my ocd goes on a journey how the drawers with clothes will be dirty to the floor.

Link to comment
Guest Phil10

I can’t bear this anxiety people are right it will get worse becuase I worry every surface has toilet plunger water germs and I will constantly feel dirty and awful. Yes my trousers may not have touched the plunger but it doesn’t matter my anxiety will go on this journey anyway.

Edited by Phil10
Link to comment

Every time you experience an intrusive thought you react to it Phil. 

This is what you must change. Just see at as an unwanted OCD intrusive thought, leave it be, refocus away. 

Every time you connect with an intrusion, you make it stronger - it's the wrong thing to be doing. 

Link to comment
9 minutes ago, Phil10 said:

....but my ocd goes on a journey how the drawers with clothes will be dirty to the floor.

You do have a choice Phil. I know it doesn’t feel like it but you don’t have to go on that ‘journey,’ you can choose to change the way you’re dealing with these contamination concerns...can you try to sit with the anxiety?

How about setting a goal of not going over where the ‘contamination’ may have spread and not re-washing/removing anything for the next couple of hours and get on with focusing on something else? 

Let the thoughts and anxiety be there, you’re strong enough to tolerate them...you just need to give yourself a chance to prove that to yourself.

Link to comment
Guest Phil10
2 minutes ago, Hal said:

You do have a choice Phil. I know it doesn’t feel like it but you don’t have to go on that ‘journey,’ you can choose to change the way you’re dealing with these contamination concerns...can you try to sit with the anxiety?

How about setting a goal of not going over where the ‘contamination’ may have spread and not re-washing/removing anything for the next couple of hours and get on with focusing on something else? 

Let the thoughts and anxiety be there, you’re strong enough to tolerate them...you just need to give yourself a chance to prove that to yourself.

Yes I can sit with it but the clothes need washed eventually if i don’t wash them I’d prob bin them however there is not much I can do as I would worry the floor where washing is will be dirty too. For the past few weeks I have had toilet plunger and brush worries I feel the eventual goal of these worries is to worry every surface is dirty I Duno why that’s it’s goal but it seems to operate a way in which I feel I have to keep moving house to escape it.

Link to comment
Guest Phil10
6 minutes ago, taurean said:

Every time you experience an intrusive thought you react to it Phil. 

This is what you must change. Just see at as an unwanted OCD intrusive thought, leave it be, refocus away. 

Every time you connect with an intrusion, you make it stronger - it's the wrong thing to be doing. 

That’s true so what should I tell myself that I maybe never touched the toilet plunger? I struggle to not go on that journey I mean I feel unique I bet other people don’t worry about the toilet brush. A few weeks back I worried my foot hit the toilet brush so as I say I feel I am on an infinitive journey to worry everything has toilet germs all over them it’s like a nightmare 

Link to comment

Phil, you can’t be helped here. You need help where someone can be on site helping you daily. Again, you need a mind shift - a decision to make to treat this the way you think won’t help you. You’re the only one who thinks it won’t help you. Science suggests otherwise. Again, NOTHING will help you or change things for the better unless you decide to do exposure, accept uncertainty and give up your compulsions of avoidance and analysing.

Your activity on this forum is making your ocd worse. 

Basically we’re just spectators of a macabre show now. There’s no point offering you ways out of this mess. You don’t want our help!

Link to comment
Guest Phil10
56 minutes ago, Orwell1984 said:

Phil, you can’t be helped here. You need help where someone can be on site helping you daily. Again, you need a mind shift - a decision to make to treat this the way you think won’t help you. You’re the only one who thinks it won’t help you. Science suggests otherwise. Again, NOTHING will help you or change things for the better unless you decide to do exposure, accept uncertainty and give up your compulsions of avoidance and analysing.

Your activity on this forum is making your ocd worse. 

Basically we’re just spectators of a macabre show now. There’s no point offering you ways out of this mess. You don’t want our help!

What you suggest daily help is unrealistic and very few people get that sort of intense help. Also given I work and live a normal life it would not be required. I remember someone on another fourm pointed out how bad my ocd was and someone reminded them how I still go holidays and work which suggests it’s not as bad as some people can’t work. 

Link to comment

It's that thinking that you have got to change. 

Your brain tells you it's a risk because you have contamination OCD 

Ignore it and get busy on other things. The more you do this when OCD intrusions come, the less strong will become the power of the OCD. 

Link to comment

Phil, you really need to question why you are posting here. You've stated you don't believe CBT works and you refuse to do ERP. Well we teach CBT and ERP. You say you want advice but you won't listen to the advice we give.

You say you paid some outfit money for their plan to best OCD. You seem to believe in it, even if you are deluding yourself. So why don't you send them multiple messages every day and ask for their advice?

Link to comment
Guest Phil10
5 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

Phil, you really need to question why you are posting here. You've stated you don't believe CBT works and you refuse to do ERP. Well we teach CBT and ERP. You say you want advice but you won't listen to the advice we give.

You say you paid some outfit money for their plan to best OCD. You seem to believe in it, even if you are deluding yourself. So why don't you send them multiple messages every day and ask for their advice?

Well I have to try every solution to beat ocd it may mean some Cbt.

Link to comment

Right at the beginning of your last long thread I said that you needed to clarify with your psychiatrist as to why he was unwilling to provide CBT for OCD on the NHS.

If I remember correctly you did visit him/her but did not get an explanation. It might be that receiving an explanation might explain a number of things including your experience on this site.

You could ask to see your medical notes to seek a clarification.

In Scotland you cannot self refer for NHS treatment as you can in England.

I say this given Hal’s suggestion to go to your GP. You have received help from the NHS  for your bipolar condition but not your OCD condition.

You have been denied NHS OCD psychological treatment and cannot take SSRIs because of your bipolar condition.

Outside your house you function well and seem not to be affected by OCD. So when you are busy with other things because of work or because of a holiday you are not troubled by OCD obsessional thoughts.

The issue is why does being in your house spark off obsessional thoughts. 

I should book another session with your psychiatrist to get to the bottom of why he will not approve NHS CBT and if need be ask to see your medical notes. And take a decision from there.

Edited by Angst
Link to comment
1 hour ago, Phil10 said:

All I know is I could have toilet plunger germs on my clothes that’s a risk 

No, it's not a risk. There is no risk. If I could, I would gladly go to your house, grab your plunger, rub it all over my clothes, wear them for a week and not wash them.

Your own mind is lying to you when it says there is a risk.

Link to comment

Exactly. OCD is a liar and a gross exaggerator. 

To get better, we have to trust what therapists and informed helpers are telling us, and stop responding to the OCD thoughts with belief and following that urge to carry out (in fact useless, making matters worse) compulsions. 

Appliances, clothes etc etc don't need replacing when OCD is claiming "risk, replace". 

Those of us who have satisfactorily gone through these thinking and behavioural changes ourselves KNOW this process works.

So it's a matter for other sufferers to stop believing their OCD, but instead believe us. 

Link to comment
Guest OCDhavenobrain

For a person who doesnt even believe i. What we teach you get much support Phil. Will you take on some of the advices?

Link to comment
On 05/04/2019 at 23:30, Phil10 said:

So you have told me it’s not dirty or contaminated how can I believe this in a way I stop ruminating? I mean I touch a surface I think is dirty and I have all the ocd thoughts. How can I stop this? Or not bother about it?

You have the order backwards, you don't change your thoughts so you stop ruminating, you stop ruminating in order to change your thoughts.  I realize it seems like the rumination is automatic, that its a consequence of having the thoughts.  In a sense it is, just like any bad habit becomes automatic, but you can learn to undo that bad habit, just like any other.  Thats a core component of CBT, learning to undo the bad habits that are our compulsions.  In essence, you have to CHOOSE to stop ruminating.  Of course, its not going to happen right away, its not like you just say "today I will stop ruminating" and you never do it again.  You start small and work up to it, just like any big change.  You start actively choosing to behave differently when you notice you are ruminating.  The more you do it, the easier it becomes.  You have to be vigilant about it, you have to decide that you will police your rumination, that you will be on the look out for it, and when it happens, either you notice it at the beggining of a rumination session, or maybe you don't notice it at first and you've been ruminating for awhile.  Thats ok, either way once you do notice, you change your response. You make yourself stop ruminating.  Again, at first it will be hard, you might only last a few minutes before you catch yourself doing it again, but you keep at it, and over time, you'll do it less and less.  Just like a smoker weaning themself off cigarettes, you try and go as long as you can without the behavior you are trying to stop and work on stretching it out each time.  There are a variety of techniques that you can use to help you with this, mindfullness for example.  Personally I had a lot of success with the Four Steps method from the book Brain Lock by Dr. Jeffrey Schwartz.  But whatever techniques you use, the goal is the same, to change how you respond to intrusive thoughts.
 

On 05/04/2019 at 23:30, Phil10 said:

Like I say I never replaced the iron but there is some stuff that I avoid touching and I find it hard to do so without washing my hands. What’s the best way to tackle these thoughts can I ever believe something once contaminated is clean again?

Again, yes it is hard, especially at first.  Most people take a gradual approach to stopping their compulsions, its a balance between going fast enough to make noticable improvements and not pushing yourself too hard so that you give up.  ERP is how you tackle this.  You have an item that when you touch you feel like you have to wash your hands?  Ok, you start with that.  First, you make yourself touch it, next you delay washing your hands for as long as you can.  Maybe at first its only a minute.  So the first attempt, you touch it, wait a minute then you wash your hands.  Ok thats the base line.  Now you do it again.  Wait at least a minute before washing.  After a few times doing that you should try and push yourself to wait longer.  Say five minutes.  After five minutes see if you can wait another five.  See how long you can go without washing your hands, challenge yourself.  Overtime, if you do this regularly, you'll find that you can go longer and longer without washing your hands, until you reach the point where you don't have to wash them at all anymore.  If you feel any anxiety, you'll be able to wait it out until it goes away, and eventually its likely you'll feel little anxiety at all.  This approach works, its called habituation and its backed by decades of science, not just for OCD but for a wide variety of behavioral changes.

In my experience, after some time yes you will reach a point where you don't believe there is contamination, or at the very least you won't care.  You'll have trained our brain to realize that these thoughts are false alarms, meaningless background noise you don't have to listen to.

 

18 hours ago, Phil10 said:

She stopped seeing me as I had a moment of wellness when I was able to manage my ocd and say the right things particularly via the programme I mentioned however since I gave up the homework I got sucked back into old ways.

So you were doing the CBT, things started to get better, then you stopped doing the steps you were told would help and things got worse again.  And when you said the "right things" according to the program you mentioned, you essentially tricked your therapist into believing you were in a better situation then you were.  The therapist can try and see behind what we tell them, but ultimately therapy relies on trust between the patient and the therapist, if you aren't being honest with them, then its not their fault when things stop working.  Hopefully the fact that your situation started to get worse again will help you see that the issue was not that CBT doesn't work, its that this other program you are using doesn't work.  If it did wouldn't you be better now?  Yes, CBT can be time consuming, especially at first, it can take months, even years to fully reach the point where you don't need to do the exercises as often anymore.  It would be great if there really were quick fixes for this sort of problem.  But the fact that the real fix takes time doesn't mean it doesn't work, it just means its less than what we'd like to have.  The real decision you have to make is can you afford NOT to put in the time and effort to do the CBT work?  Is your life livable and worthwhile without the CBT?  Often in life the things we want that are the most worthwhile take work.  Recovery from OCD, is, unfortunately often one of those things.  So the choice you have before is, do you want to get better or not, and if so are you willing to do the work needed to get there?

Link to comment
18 hours ago, Phil10 said:

Reading back doesn’t help as I have new issues each day.

You may have new intrusive thoughts each day, but its still just OCD, and you don't need to do dramatically different things to handle different intrusive thoughts.  The same techniques will work for someone who has intrusive thoughts about contamination as another person has harm thoughts and a third person has sexual related intrusive thoughts.  Its all variations on a theme.  The details don't matter as much as you seem to think they do.  Thats one of the reasons why daily diaries don't help, aside from being a compulsion, they don't change what you need to do to beat OCD, they don't change the advice we have to give.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Phil10 said:

All I know is I could have toilet plunger germs on my clothes that’s a risk 

Everything is a risk.
Getting out of bed is a risk.
Eating food is a risk.
Going outside your house is a risk.
Driving a car, riding a train, walking to work, however you get there is a risk.
Life is constantly full of risks.
The problem is not that there is some risk, the problem is you have come to believe that the minisule, microscopic, virtually non-existent risk, of these "contaminations" is worth panicking over.  You are not just making a mountain out of a mole hill, you are taking a milimeter tall pile of sand and treating it like its Mount Everest!  Meanwhile you aren't panicking about things that are many orders of magnitude MORE risky (like cars). Why?  Because even then the level of risk isn't worth the amount of time and effort you are letting yourself put in to this.

Look, for a non-OCD person, yes, they wouldn't be feeling the level of anxiety you do about this.  Luckily for them they don't have to deal with that part of it.  But the level of risk is no different for them than it is for you.  The problem is not that you are somehow in more danger.  The problem is that, due to faulty wiring in your brain somewhere, you are feeling anxiety when you you shouldn't.  And that sucks, it really really does.  Its absolutely unfair and it is difficult.  But you don't have to be a slave to the anxiety.  It might feel like you do, but the reality is you can CHOOSE to handle things differently.  Just because you feel anxiety doesn't mean the threat is real!  You have to start believing that.  

Lets take two scenarios.
Scenario 1.  Bob has a very realistic looking toy gun.  Indistinguishable from a real gun.  He points it at Joe.  Joe thinks its a real gun, he doesn't know Bob, doesn't know its a fake.  Joe feels intense anxiety, especially when Bob pulls the trigger and the toy gun makes a realistic gun noise.  But its just a toy, no bullet comes out, Joe isn't hurt (angry and scared perhaps, but not actually shot).  The anxiety was REAL the danger was FAKE.
Scenario 2.  Bob has a real gun, but Joe thinks its a fake.  He's convinced there is no way Bob could have a real gun.  Heck maybe he has seen Bobs fake gun before and played with it.  He doesn't know this time its real.  Bob points the gun at Joe but Joe feels no anxiety, and why should he? Its just a toy!  For some reason though Bob pulls the trigger and Joe gets shot.  No anxiety, but the danger was very REAL.

You need to internalize that Phil.  You need to stop believing this idea that because you feel anxiety about something, that the threat is real.  There is plenty of evidence to let you know the "contamination" you are fearing isn't real, but you are choosing to ignore that because you feel the anxiety.  To get past this you have to start breaking that link of anxiety == danger.  Its hard, especially at first, but with time and work (CBT and ERP) it can absolutely be done.  Its up to you whether you do the work though.  I just hope that maybe, finally you are starting to understand what we are telling you.

Link to comment
Guest Phil10
4 hours ago, PolarBear said:

No, it's not a risk. There is no risk. If I could, I would gladly go to your house, grab your plunger, rub it all over my clothes, wear them for a week and not wash them.

Your own mind is lying to you when it says there is a risk.

Yep I am struggling with this I keep telling myself it’s dirty it’s got toilet water but my worry is if I wash these clothes the clean clothes won’t come out clean anymore? Like when my partner touched the washing machine and the bin. I am spending my time worrying over if i did actually touch the plunger and if I did if I need to toss the clothes. I put clothes in my cupboard I am now worrying I need to move them. I mean I could throw the clothes but I’d prob still worry the floor is dirty. Crazy thing is I maybe never touched the plunger but my head goes on this journey. 

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...