Are we even real?

[Guest Paul92]

So I started to feel a bit better about existence and things. I just thought, I'm a human monkey, I age at my own rate, time is something humans have created to measure things... I am just a human money that is free to roam about on the planet as I wish. I started to feel normal-ish.

I woke up this morning and I realised something. If our bodies replace every cell in our bodies then which bit is even us? Our skin is being replaced constantly with atoms from food etc. Is our body an illusion?

If I give my girlfriend a kiss on the cheek one day.... then wait a year, I am kissing a different body aren't I?

[PolarBear]

I'm not going to discuss this with you. That would be engaging with a compulsion.

Trying to answer questions like this is a compulsion and will only get you more stuck.

Try to shift your focus onto other things today.

[Guest Paul92]

8 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

I'm not going to discuss this with you. That would be engaging with a compulsion.

Trying to answer questions like this is a compulsion and will only get you more stuck.

Try to shift your focus onto other things today.

It's just so hard. And like I say... it's strange to think that I could kiss someone one day, and then in a few years, they would be completely different, so what part of you, is you? I know neurons in the brain do not regenerate, they are there forever.

Also, just thought I'd tell you about my confessing compulsion stuff. There has been a lot of instances that my brain has latched onto over the last few days but I've done my best not to engage with them. I find that I just forget them and sometimes I can chalk it up as nonsense, so I feel like at least I am making progress there... it does make me feel really uneasy though.

[dksea]

These are unanswerable questions, philosophers have pondered them for millennia. 

You aren’t required to answer them, which is good since they can’t be answered.  Best to accept that you’ll never be able to “know” and work at not ruminating, it’s not going to help.

[taurean]

This is just another rollout of your OCD theme and we aren't going to help you engage in carrying out compulsions. 

When this type of intrusion occurs Phil don't engage with it. Refocus away to something useful and worthwhile in the present in the moment. 

The only place our thinking needs to be to be happy, and healthy, is in the present in the moment. 

[PolarBear]

It's great you are trying not to engage, Paul. Keep at it.

[Guest Paul92]

But if we replace every single atom and cell in our bodies over periods of time, what makes us, 'us'? 

I'm so sick of this life and its ridiculous illusions. 

[taurean]

1 hour ago, Paul92 said:

But if we replace every single atom and cell in our bodies over periods of time, what makes us, 'us'? 

I'm so sick of this life and its ridiculous illusions. 

If you truly are sick of it Paul, work on leaving these questions be. 

Those of us who are happy and relaxed don't spend time thinking about such things and nor need you. 

Practice and keep practicing refocusing away when such thoughts occur.Leave them be, get otherwise occupied and keep doing so until you have overcome the power of the OCD. 

[PolarBear]

1 hour ago, Paul92 said:

But if we replace every single atom and cell in our bodies over periods of time, what makes us, 'us'? 

I'm so sick of this life and its ridiculous illusions. 

Paul, we aren't here to engage with your compulsions. We simply are not going to talk about stuff like this.

[Guest Phil10]

3 hours ago, Paul92 said:

But if we replace every single atom and cell in our bodies over periods of time, what makes us, 'us'? 

I'm so sick of this life and its ridiculous illusions. 

I don’t think we are like flowers that come back as new flowers. We remain the same.  Life could be an illusion but not because of atoms. 

[Guest Paul92]

13 hours ago, Phil10 said:

I don’t think we are like flowers that come back as new flowers. We remain the same.  Life could be an illusion but not because of atoms. 

But think about it. If we replace all the atoms in the body several times, what makes us us? I know we look the same and look like us, but we Are made of different things. So aren't we just identifying with a concept when really there is no us? 

But naturally we have a sense of self, like all animals seem to. 

[taurean]

12 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

But think about it. If we replace all the atoms in the body several times, what makes us us? I know we look the same and look like us, but we Are made of different things. So aren't we just identifying with a concept when really there is no us? 

The point is, we don't have to think about it. 

And those of us who don't can live perfectly well without thinking about it.

Because that thinking for you has become a compulsion, and that compulsion takes you just round and round without finding a healthy and happy conclusion, one that satisfies the underlying obsessional core belief. 

All who break free from such obsessional and compulsional thinking have to change their thinking and behavioural response - it matters not one iota what the obsession happens to be. 

We have to uncover the false exaggerated or revulsive core belief. Then when it creates an intrusion, just note what is happening, refuse to believe in or connect to it, then refocus away - without carrying out compulsions. 

We all have the capability of doing this, whatever the obsession happens to be. 

A friend's daughter suddenly developed the obsession that sugar was a poison and would kill her. 

The Mum was scared stiff and sought my help. And I was able to explain what was going on and guide her, steering her also to OCD-UK. 

Sugar is a vital part of supporting human life. We need it to provide glucose which is the energy food that runs our bodies. 

However the child developed the fear of sugar, it in sensible amounts is a bodily must-have. 

 

[Guest Phil10]

You say we don’t have to think about these themes I ask why do we think about these ideas then?

[dksea]

15 minutes ago, Phil10 said:

You say we don’t have to think about these themes I ask why do we think about these ideas then?

Well first, many, probably most people DON’T think about thoughts like these.  The majority of people love their lives without considering these possibilities, and it doesn’t affect their lives one way or the other. Meanwhile, for some people they are interesting thoughts to consider, thoughts that can be enjoyed or pondered over without falling in to an existential crisis, thoughts that you can pick up, spend time with and then put down.  You are not, at least right now, one of those people.  When you pick up the thought it leads you only to anxiety and distress.  Some people can enjoy alcohol responsibly without a problem, while alcoholics shouldn’t even have one drink.  Or some people can enjoy a casual game of poker, while others have serious problems when gambling.  These situations aren’t 100% identical, but the key is that what is fine for some people, is too risky for others.  For you, because of OCD, dwelling on questions like these is too risky.  What might be an otherwise healthy or interesting discussion for others will be a compulsion party for you, and that’s not good.  The question you are asking can’t be answered, and it doesn’t need to be answered.  Work on accepting that and not engaging the thought when it comes up.

[Angst]

A month ago I listened to a radio play about a woman who was teletransported from England to Australia. A new body based precisely on her old body was created in Australia for her with a  imprint of the neural structure on her mind. Her old body was to be destroyed which it was not due to an accident. So ensued a play devised in a thriller mode. An example of philosophical speculation being turned into drama rather than existentialist crisis. A too think for the moment you need to self censure.

[paradoxer]

13 hours ago, Phil10 said:

You say we don’t have to think about these themes I ask why do we think about these ideas then?

Man, again, this isn't a philosophy forum. Either go to one, or wrap up ritualizing.

[dksea]

15 minutes ago, paradoxer said:

Man, again, this isn't a philosophy forum. Either go to one, or wrap up ritualizing.

I would definitely not recommend that Paul visit philosophy forums, that would only feed his compulsion.

[Guest Paul92]

It's too hard guys. I don't know how much longer I can go on like this. I don't even know if there is a 'me'. How can there be a 'me' just made from a bunch of atoms that have existed forever. Atoms that get replaced over and over and over. There can't be any me. It's heart breaking. I am sick of this life. It's a sick sick joke. If there's a creator, or the universe is the creator, then I hate it. It's sick and twisted and the sooner I am done with it the better.

 

[Guest OCDhavenobrain]

There is no me and you are afraid of it so you are considering suicide?

Edited March 28, 2019 by OCDhavenobrain

[Guest Paul92]

6 minutes ago, OCDhavenobrain said:

There is no me and you are afraid of it so you are considering suicide?

Life has no meaning if nobody is real and we live in an illusion. There's no love. There's nothing exciting. Because how can you love a bunch of particles just move about.

[Guest OCDhavenobrain]

3 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

Life has no meaning if nobody is real and we live in an illusion. There's no love. There's nothing exciting. Because how can you love a bunch of particles just move about.

I am not sure that I see the logic behind those conclusions. However I do not care if there is any logic. You can think about those topics because you are intrested in them and you can think about them because you are obsessing. You need to get a grip on your mind. 

What you Have to do is to actively control where your focus is for a couple of days. Start now

Edited March 28, 2019 by OCDhavenobrain

[Guest Paul92]

See a part of me thinks, well, I'm clearly an autonomous thing, as are the rest of us. What does it matter how it happens? But then I just think yes but is it an illusion?

Like if I wasn't meant to find females attractive, why do I? Why do I have eyes, ears and a mouth? If I am not supposed to have a thinking 'mind', why do I? I am clearly a human monkey... we all are. Contrary to what spiritualists might claim, animals DO have a sense of self. We all do.

It's just hard for me to not try and figure out what makes me 'me'.

Had a pretty rough night and morning really.

[dksea]

11 hours ago, Paul92 said:

See a part of me thinks, well, I'm clearly an autonomous thing, as are the rest of us. What does it matter how it happens? But then I just think yes but is it an illusion?

Like if I wasn't meant to find females attractive, why do I? Why do I have eyes, ears and a mouth? If I am not supposed to have a thinking 'mind', why do I? I am clearly a human monkey... we all are. Contrary to what spiritualists might claim, animals DO have a sense of self. We all do.

It's just hard for me to not try and figure out what makes me 'me'.

Had a pretty rough night and morning really.

You could spend hours, days, years, the rest of your life trying to "figure out" the answers to these questions, and you'll almost certainly never do so.  
Or you could decide to ignore these unanswerable questions and refocus on living your life as billions of people do (and have done).
For some people pondering these type of questions is interesting and can be done in a healthy fashion, for you thats not the case.  These aren't required questions in life, you don't have to find the answer.  Let yourself off the hook and decide to stop trying to solve an unsolvable riddle.

 

[Angst]

Hi Paul92 What is your obsession? 

[paradoxer]

On 27/03/2019 at 20:49, dksea said:

I would definitely not recommend that Paul visit philosophy forums, that would only feed his compulsion.

Neither would I, I'm hoping that Paul can see I'm being ironic. Engaging in a discussion on the same here, even tangentially, feeds into his disorder. I see he's doing it again, rhetorically. It's frustrating, time and time again, to see sufferers using the pages of an OCD forum, not to try to treat the disorder, or even just to remain neutral, but to actually facilitate it.