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Are we even real?


Guest Paul92

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1 hour ago, paradoxer said:

It's frustrating, time and time again, to see sufferers using the pages of an OCD forum, not to try to treat the disorder, or even just to remain neutral, but to actually facilitate it. 

Here here. Our OCD forum is a place where we can exchange ideas and experiences on how best to manage then overcome the illness. 

It is not the place to record a diary of obsessions and compulsions - behaviour which improves nothing, just makes things worse as the obsessions and compulsions take over the sufferer’s life. 

And for the helpers, it's so frustrating to watch this playing out :(

 

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Guest Paul92

I'm not using this place as a diary to record obsessions. But since I discovered all this stuff about the universe etc, it feels like I have genuinely seen through an illusion or something, so I am questioning everything.

Does nobody even care that if 'our' bodies replace every single atom in them over and over again, that they might not be actually who they think they are? Who is 'you'? Who is your girlfriend, or wife or children? How can nobody just not care about that?

These aren't trivial matters. They are at the core our existence. I love being a human being. Well, loved. But on further inspection, we might not be... we are like an event but we identify with something that isn't real... which breaks my heart to be honest. I ruminate to just try and get back to where I was... I'd rather live in the illusion. I don't want to be enlightened.

Edited by Paul92
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Any obsession that consumes our daily thinking, and causes us to constantly seek answers we can never obtain, is not trivial to the OCD sufferer. 

But to everyone else, it's wasted life. 

I have great interest in psychology, history, science, astronomy, archaeology - and there are many unanswered questions. 

I would like to know more about DNA - why my father's line has thrown up OCD, why my wife's father's line has a heart valve issue which occasionally surfaces, why my wife's aunt and grandmother also developed otosclerosis - a form of deafness. 

But they aren't obsessions, there are no compulsions. And I don't worry about them. 

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Guest OCDhavenobrain

So Paul do you remember what we said last week about it becomming more and more timeconsuming? Here you are. OCD is such a nasty brute, it has no shame, if you give -- it takes.

Paul come on, it is time to ring the bell and let yourself have a realitycheck.

Edit: One week later and the world still goed on outside our heads

Edited by OCDhavenobrain
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So you have ‘genuinely seen through an illusion’. And ‘you are enlightened’ and you ruminate - a compulsion? - to achieve false consciousness.  Does this mean that you post on an OCD forum to proselytise your insight rather than seek a remedy to thoughts that you find disturbing. Would that be correct?

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Guest Paul92
36 minutes ago, Angst said:

So you have ‘genuinely seen through an illusion’. And ‘you are enlightened’ and you ruminate - a compulsion? - to achieve false consciousness.  Does this mean that you post on an OCD forum to proselytise your insight rather than seek a remedy to thoughts that you find disturbing. Would that be correct?

I do it because I don't want to lose hope that it is OCD and I can forget about it. I also do it because someone might tell me something that makes sense to me. Yes reassurance, that actually life isn't an illusion for X reason. This time, there isn't really an opposing argument.

1 hour ago, OCDhavenobrain said:

So Paul do you remember what we said last week about it becomming more and more timeconsuming? Here you are. OCD is such a nasty brute, it has no shame, if you give -- it takes.

Paul come on, it is time to ring the bell and let yourself have a realitycheck.

Edit: One week later and the world still goed on outside our heads

How do I know this is an OCD thing though? Is it because it just complete nonsense (like someone might think they hurt someone by their thoughts) or is it a real concern but I'm thinking about it. If it is the latter, which I fear it is, then how can I not worry about it?

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It seems to me that posting on this theme on this forum is a compulsion: the seeking of reassurance no matter if you think that the hope is in vain. I think Polar Bear alluded to this some days ago. When he said that he was not going to engage in a conversation with you about your obsessional theme(s). It will simply maintain your themes. You need to direct your attention elsewhere. I think that would be an appropriate strategy. Might sound tough but it the sensible and practical approach.

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Guest Paul92

It's the hardest thing in the world. I've had to do it so many times lately. But this time it just feels a step too far. I'm not convinced it is fuelled by OCD. Science seems to validate what I'm saying.

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Guest OCDhavenobrain
3 hours ago, Paul92 said:

I do it because I don't want to lose hope that it is OCD and I can forget about it. I also do it because someone might tell me something that makes sense to me. Yes reassurance, that actually life isn't an illusion for X reason. This time, there isn't really an opposing argument.

How do I know this is an OCD thing though? Is it because it just complete nonsense (like someone might think they hurt someone by their thoughts) or is it a real concern but I'm thinking about it. If it is the latter, which I fear it is, then how can I not worry about it?

You don't

And I sympathazie with your latest post about it being the hardest thing ever

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7 hours ago, Paul92 said:

I'm not using this place as a diary to record obsessions. But since I discovered all this stuff about the universe etc, it feels like I have genuinely seen through an illusion or something, so I am questioning everything.

Does nobody even care that if 'our' bodies replace every single atom in them over and over again, that they might not be actually who they think they are? Who is 'you'? Who is your girlfriend, or wife or children? How can nobody just not care about that?

These aren't trivial matters. They are at the core our existence. I love being a human being. Well, loved. But on further inspection, we might not be... we are like an event but we identify with something that isn't real... which breaks my heart to be honest. I ruminate to just try and get back to where I was... I'd rather live in the illusion. I don't want to be enlightened.

As I've said before, we are not going to engage your compulsions by debating these nonissues with you. We are not. Don't come here if you want a philosophical discussion about life. Don't go anywhere else if you want to get a handle on your OCD.

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Guest Paul92

Sorry guys. I'm on a night out and I just keeping thinking that we're not individuals and it is all an illusion. This girl Ive been seeing, I love her more than anyone will ever know, but I just keep thinking she's an illusion. It's absolutely heartbreaking 

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Guest OCDhavenobrain

I do think everybody can sympatize. It is not really a hard thing to do if you have had OCD for a period of time.

Even if I do agree that it is very bad for all (most detrimental for the sufferer) to use the forum for writing out compulsions is it really up to the owner of the site to decide if it is allowed. And lastly, Paul seems to have a bad period. It is worse when it goes on for years.

I wish sufferer didn't thought they were helped just because they write on a OCD-forum. In most cases they probably know themselves, I know Personally that writing out stuff have been a compulsion for me. It is like rhen it is up to others to judge... I also know that when I have had it bad I have been very manipulative just to get reassuranc, and that is something we have to admit and be honedt about that sufferers do. It is always a thug of war, where we on the outside need to be frank when it is needed. 

 

Edit: Time for a new keyboard, hard on mobile, but it is itching and you just have to write it out.

Paul, nothing have changed here, the advices and the possibilities for you to overcome this are there. The world goes on outside your head. 

Edited by OCDhavenobrain
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There never was, and never will be, a case for providing continuing attempts to reassure a sufferer. Compulsions never work, and any initial seemingly-beneficial effect is of short duration. 

So posting on an OCD forum in the hope of reassurance won't help. And if the concern is is it real or is it OCD? - a common conundrum thrown up by OCD - the answer is to take a "leap of faith" - stop believing it's real and start believing it's OCD - then instead of compulsions, refocus away and keep doing that until the obsessional thought loses its power. 

As an informed helper, we feel a compulsion - the urge to yell out "it's all a load of worthless nonsense, don't listen to it!":D 

Because that is exactly what it is. 

The only value, for me, in Phil's story is exactly that - it would make a great short story in a Sci fi magazine. And he would get a few Bob for the writing of it. 

Truth and OCD don't mix - OCD lies, tries to convince us that black is white and 2+2=5.

But the reality is that black IS black, 2+2=4.And we don't have to let OCD try and convince us otherwise. 

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Guest Paul92
1 hour ago, taurean said:

Courage Paul. Believe in WE not what the OCD is telling you. 

It's hard.

Has anyone ever just felt completely numb? And completely and utterly hopeless?

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Guest Paul92

There are other people online who look to be in the same trouble. It's as if we can't accept that life is an illusion and there is no 'you'. 

I'm taking the Sertraline in the morning. I have to give it a shot. I can't go on like this. All I have done today is lay shaking and vomiting because of my anxiety. I'm trying to calm down but I can't. 

If I have a drink all I think is well I'm event.. Particles replacing particles... 

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Guest Paul92

I just forced myself up to tidy my house.. I've eaten half a pot noodle all day. I can't face anything. Is this normal?

I finished tidying the house... now nothing. Trying to stay occupied... but I can't escape the thoughts about how we're not individuals etc.. Trying not to Google or anything. Here we go again.

Edited by Paul92
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1 hour ago, Paul92 said:

There are other people online who look to be in the same trouble. It's as if we can't accept that life is an illusion and there is no 'you'. 

Paul, going online like that is a compulsion and, as you can see from this, compulsions only make things worse. 

 

14 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

but I can't escape the thoughts about how we're not individuals etc..

You can, in due course, by just noting them, then refocusing away without believing them or connecting with them. At the moment you are believing, connecting with them, which will only make them stronger, more persistent. 

Take the leap of faith. Believe what we are telling you. 

Here is a brief note on CBT procedures to remind you what to do. 

Our OCD forms core beliefs per theme usually based on falsehood, exaggeration or revulsion. 

These core beliefs spawn obsessive (O) intrusive thoughts on a theme which cause an adverse behavioural reaction : an alarm alert to the "threat" the OCD suggests, distress (Disorder), and the urge to carry out compulsions to "fix" the distress (C). 

Quickly the alert leads to more distress and catastrophic thinking - we fall into a continuing circle of distress - and the compulsions only result in us giving belief to, connecting with, the intrusions(and thus the underlying OCD core belief) making the OCD more powerful and the intrusive thoughts more frequent. 

This will show you how only trying to ignore the thoughts will not be successful. We need to "take a leap of faith", believe what we learn about how the OCD works (and briefly summarised above) is the real truth, not what the OCD is saying to us. 

And that whatever type of OCD we may have, the OCD core belief will appear to non-sufferers as"worthless irrational irrelevant nonsense" - everyone gets such thoughts, but they laugh at them and ease them away, forget them. 

So, believe what is going on in this cognitive side of CBT. 

Schedule ERP in short, structured sessions - working up a hierarchy of intrusions from least anxiety provoking. 

Move on to the next one when, after necessary repeats, the anxiety has died down. 

Concurrent to this, and outside of ERP, work on resisting compulsions. When an intrusion comes just think "oh that's just my silly obsession" then gently, but firmly, refocus your thinking away elsewhere. Keep on regularly doing this until refocusing becomes automatic and the power and frequency of the intrusion fades. 

So there you are. Looked at with any complexity stripped away recovery looks one whole lot easier doesn't it?

But the hard work has to be done by the sufferer themselves, though a significant other can be veryhelpful - especially as a marker for what is anormal reaction rather than an OCD one. 

Edited by taurean
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Well done. I can identify. For me I would label it as depression. In that you forced yourself to tidy the house and feel that you cannot face anything. Depression is the most common mental problem to sit along side OCD. The housekeeping stopped your from your obsessions. I too would like recommendations for the evenings.

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Guest Paul92
2 minutes ago, taurean said:

Paul, going online like that is a compulsion and, as you can see from this, compulsions only make things worse. 

 

You can, in due course, by just noting them, then refocusing away without believing them or connecting with them. At the moment you are believing, connecting with them, which will only make them stronger, more persistent. 

Take the leap of faith. Believe what we are telling you. 

Here is a brief note on CBT procedures to remind you what to do. 

Our OCD forms core beliefs per theme usually based on falsehood, exaggeration or revulsion. 

These core beliefs spawn obsessive (O) intrusive thoughts on a theme which cause an adverse behavioural reaction : an alarm alert to the "threat" the OCD suggests, distress (Disorder), and the urge to carry out compulsions to "fix" the distress (C). 

Quickly the alert leads to more distress andcatastrophic thinking - we fall into a continuing circle of distress - and the compulsions only result in us giving belief to, connecting with, the intrusions(and thus the underlying OCD core belief) making the OCD more powerful and the intrusive thoughts more frequent. 

This will show you how only trying to ignorethethoughts will not be successful. We need to "take aleap of faith", believe what we learn about how the OCD works (and briefly summarised above) is the real truth, not what the OCD is saying to us. 

And that whatever type of OCD we may have, the OCD core belief will appear to non-sufferers as"worthless irrational irrelevant nonsense" - everyone gets such thoughts, but they laugh at them and ease them away, forget them. 

So, believe what is going on in this cognitive side of CBT. 

Schedule ERP in short, structured sessions - working up a hierarchy of intrusions from least anxiety provoking. 

Move on to the next one when, after necessary repeats, the anxiety has died down. 

Concurrent to this, and outside of ERP, work on resisting compulsions. When an intrusion comes just think "oh that's just my silly obsession" thengently, but firmly, refocus your thinking away elsewhere. Keep on regularly doing this untilrefocusing becomes automatic and the power and frequency of the intrusion fades. 

So there you are. Looked at with any complexity stripped away recovery looks one whole lot easier doesn't it?

But the hard work has to be done by the sufferer themselves, though a significant other can be veryhelpful - especially as a marker for what is anormal reaction rather than an OCD one. 

Thanks for that, Roy (I think that's your name). You've always been a great source of help for me and others. And I know how frustrating it must be for you to keep coming here and see me going round in circles. Please don't give up on me, I feel so alone.

You know I trust you guys. I have had solipsism obsessions. I was genuinely scared that everyone and everything was just in my mind. I did the same things.. but then I stopped and now it doesn't bother me one bit today and I can see it is total nonsense.

Just this time it seems much more difficult because of the popularity of such ideas that there is no us. People like Eckhart Tolle and other spiritual gurus. But I do not subscribe to any woo. I don't believe in psychics, the spirit, God, spiritual healing etc. I just don't. But like I say, the whole thing about what makes us 'us' scares me.

All I want is to be an individual who can just exist and spend my time here with other nice people and have a good time. But I want them to be real. Not just an illusion. THAT is what is worrying me.

I'm trying to stay occupied. First step is stopping Googling and going on englightenment forums etc.

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Guest Paul92
4 minutes ago, Angst said:

Well done. I can identify. For me I would label it as depression. In that you forced yourself to tidy the house and feel that you cannot face anything. Depression is the most common mental problem to sit along side OCD. The housekeeping stopped your from your obsessions. I too would like recommendations for the evenings.

I went out last night and made a total dick of myself. I've been seeing a girl, then we started going out and I think she got worried it was all too soon. She was out last night and I went to see if I could see her. We was getting on fine. But I was just sat crying a lot of the night and started overthinking things, and she's really done nothing wrong. I was talking with a guy who I work with her suffers with depression and he says he sits wondering at night what is the point if we all die etc. He doesn't have OCD. He seems fine to be fair, he functions okay.

I've got the radio on and brought a guitar downstairs... Smooth Radio, actually. Which makes me blub my eyes out in the current state.

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I found that when struggling with repetitive or frequent intrusions, a good way to break this Brainlock is actually to create not just one alternative line of thought, but two - though only of course in a safe environment - not driving, operating machinery, responsible for children etc. 

What works for me is throwing myself into writing. Preparing an informative topic for this forum is brill, or writing letters - at the same time listening to music ? 

In the evening we watch TV, chat, listen to the radio, read, do puzzles, prepare then wash up dinner - when cooking the radio is also often played in the kitchen. 

Even now, a CD of relaxing classical music is playing while I work on the forum. 

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