Struggling still

[Guest]

You could try doing something which helps me, which is taking what I call a 'rumination holiday' to help you get some clarity...

If a problem doesn't need an immeadiate answer - which in your situation it doesn't as the event happened years ago - I set myself a time frame of about two or three weeks during which I won't allow myself to ruminate or perform other compulsions about the problem at all. Every time the urge to ruminate occurs I tell myself that I'm not going to think about that right now, but I will think about it again on x date. When x date comes and you allow yourself to think about the subject you might immediately realise that it was a silly worry, or you might realise it is a legitimate problem but hopefully now with the anxiety reduced you can form a rational, calm plan of action to resolve it. Or if you immeadiately start to ruminate and panic again then I think you can safely say it is ocd and tackle it accordingly.

[Orwell1984]

5 hours ago, Wren said:

You could try doing something which helps me, which is taking what I call a 'rumination holiday' to help you get some clarity...

If a problem doesn't need an immeadiate answer - which in your situation it doesn't as the event happened years ago - I set myself a time frame of about two or three weeks during which I won't allow myself to ruminate or perform other compulsions about the problem at all. Every time the urge to ruminate occurs I tell myself that I'm not going to think about that right now, but I will think about it again on x date. When x date comes and you allow yourself to think about the subject you might immediately realise that it was a silly worry, or you might realise it is a legitimate problem but hopefully now with the anxiety reduced you can form a rational, calm plan of action to resolve it. Or if you immeadiately start to ruminate and panic again then I think you can safely say it is ocd and tackle it accordingly.

Hi GBG, this advice above looks like a great idea. Get some distance from the heat of the thought and let your subconscious deal with it. At x time in the future you could face the thought again and respond to it with more objectivity without the ocd immediacy 

[Caramoole]

I apologise GBG 'cos I've only just come in and confess to only having read the first few posts (I'll read properly tomorrow)  Nice to see you btw

It's highly likely you were just a rebellious teenager.  I was one too.  Less than perfect in many ways but entirely normal "teenager-wise" in many more.

Whenever I read your posts the one area that always stands out to me (because I have/had a similar failing) is the need to recognise those early symptoms.....the need to think/work it out when those first tiny thoughts hit you or the physical anxiety sensations.  It's when we buy into those tiny seeds and capitulate that the pack of cards comes tumbling down.  In order to rationalise those thoughts/feelings/sensations it is so easy to follow the route of trying to work it out.......and before you know it you're dragged back in full cycle.

The biggest area of growth/improvement for me has been working on this aspect.  That very first seed of a doubt, of a feeling of anxiety and then refusing to get dragged in.  Refusing to become panicked by the "Oh No, not again" syndrome.  There've been a few times this week when tiny doubts could have easily drawn me back into the cycle but I am learning that this briefest of thought is all that it takes to drag you in.  

It isn't easy to resist that need to have the conversation in your head, to just work it out......but neither is going through the resultant angst and anxiety that will always follow.  Work at catching and recognising that very first thought/feeling of anxiety and changing what you do next.  I'm not perfect at it but have seen an 80% improvement by learning to identify when I'm at risk of being drawn into the destructive cycle.  

[taurean]

Some great insight amongst your forum friends' answers GBG. 

As you know my story you will remember just how difficult it was for me to find a methodology to break out of constantly-repeating, constantly-churning OCD repetitions in my mental chatter during an "episode" (in my case) of OCD. In fact, it was a whole 16 years from the start of the search in earnest before, thanks to the charity, a recommended therapy practice, and the members here I found the answer. 

So hopefully the magic dust this charity has the power to sprinkle will fall upon you from the wisdom given in this thread. 

All the best 

Roy 

[gingerbreadgirl]

Thank you everyone for your absolutely amazing advice, lots of really useful stuff for me to work on here. I've said it before but this forum honestly is a gold mine of experience and kindness you could pay thousands for this stuff! 

I've been trying hard not to ruminate these last couple of days and already feel a little better. 

@Caramoole you are bang on the money I do always get drawn in by those first "but what if..." thoughts. I am already dying to respond to what you said about me just being a rebellious teenager (cos honestly some of my behaviour was just awful) but I'm just going to sit tight and not get drawn in. 

I've been reminding myself the last couple of days that it will always FEEL important, but that doesn't mean I have to act on it. I have to walk the walk and take a leap of faith. Maybe I'm ignoring something important - so be it. 

[gingerbreadgirl]

I've been trying not to ruminate on this and feeling a little better about things. It's funny how I have so much evidence that ruminating makes things worse and yet I still do it?!  I am trying to accept that I will always feel uncertainty around whether I am a good or bad person, and whether I need to take action around that. I can still live my life even with that doubt. 

[Orwell1984]

6 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I can still live my life even with that doubt. 

Yes, keep ignoring the urge to engage with it and some time your mind will catch up with your new behaviour  

[gingerbreadgirl]

On 07/04/2019 at 13:09, Orwell1984 said:

Yes, keep ignoring the urge to engage with it and some time your mind will catch up with your new behaviour  

Thanks orwell, hope you're well  

[dksea]

On 07/04/2019 at 15:06, gingerbreadgirl said:

 I am trying to accept that I will always feel uncertainty around whether I am a good or bad person

You could always convert to Catholicism!  Then its just a quick confession with a priest, do some penance, and you are off the hook for your past!  Quick and easy right 

In all seriousness, I think there has been some great advice on here.  Just keep doing your best, whether its working on not ruminating, or avoiding other compulsions, or just trying to be the kind of good person you want to be.  Remember, you don't have to be perfect, which is good since none of us are!

[taurean]

My friend the landlady of our local pub told me I am one of her favourite people and always welcome in her pub.

My friend who runs the local tearoom said to me "Roy you are so kind" when I told her I had donated over half my tax rebate to OCD-UK. 

That's their - hopefully pretty accurate - view of the me I am today. 

But I haven't always been that way. Back in my - long gone now - bachelor days I was a bit of a tearaway - they wouldn't have liked some of the things I got up to then. 

But then was then and now is now and I left then behind years and years ago. And as my then Director had hoped, marriage had a very good effect on me

One of the many beastly elements of OCD is this theme "I was bad, people need to know, I must confess" with, for some, a feeling of the need to be punished, not being good enough or whatever. 

OCD will, as always, take a molehill and build out of it a mountain, not taking remission and present good behaviour into account. 

But it's all just another negative distortion theme of OCD. 

All those years ago we may have been bad. But it's what we are now that matters - in my case the kind Roy helping local people, helping people here and always welcome in the pub and tearoom; not the naughty bad boy I once was. 

If that had tormented me as an OCD theme, I would have been following the same advice given here to overcome it. 

Bless you GBG time to leave it be and blossom forth  

Edited April 10, 2019 by taurean

[gingerbreadgirl]

Thank you very much dksea and Roy. I know you're right - in theory - and everyone makes mistakes, has flaws and so on.  

I am trying very hard not to ruminate on this. I am constantly triggered by things like films and books  - mainly because stories usually have a "message" of some kind, the character learns a lesson or whatever, and it's always very black and white (it being fiction!) They end up confessing or apologising and they are forgiven and all is well. My ocd latches onto this a lot. It makes me want to avoid fiction even though it's one of my favourite things. 

Anyway onwards and upwards. You guys have been a great help x

Edited April 10, 2019 by gingerbreadgirl

[gingerbreadgirl]

Like for example there was an episode of how I met your mother, and one of the characters said he tells his wife everything and would never keep a secret. I latched into this and it started a huge confessing spree to my partner, as I felt I had to get absolutely everything in the open in order to be a good wife. This was the beginning of my relapse and it caused significant issues between us. 

And then the other day I was playing a computer game and the character talks about having broken a promise to his wife and it got me ruminating about having broken a promise to my partner in the past. I worry about my partner watching something that will bring back reminders of "bad" things I've done and it makes me want to control what we watch. Quite often I Google the storyline for an episode before we watch it to make sure I know what's coming up (all compulsions I know). 

Edited April 10, 2019 by gingerbreadgirl

[taurean]

Well you will need to resist avoidance and face out the triggers in order to overcome this. 

Remember my problems with the news and wanting to avoid it because of possible triggers? 

Working through structured exposure, and facing out the triggers until they lost their power, I can now read or watch what news I like, when I like

And doing the same with other OCD issues has produced the same result - no restrictions, and rarely now any triggers. 

And if they do occur they are gently eased away out of focus. 

So try not to do those compulsions GBG - they only ever strengthen OCD. 

[gingerbreadgirl]

You're spot on Roy and I do try not to give in. I try to use TV as exposure sometimes and it works really well. But sometimes I am weak and I do compulsions. I am going to keep trying though! 

[taurean]

Yes it's best to fight when we are feeling strong and our resilience is high. 

Keep on working at it! 

[gingerbreadgirl]

I guess this is where I get stuck though - my resilience is low at the moment, but if I avoid triggers it will make my resilience lower in the long run.  I can't just not read books or watch TV as that would be massively avoidant. But treating them as exposure can sometimes backfire as I can end up doing compulsions. So how should I handle this? 

Edited April 10, 2019 by gingerbreadgirl

[Binxy]

Hi GBG,

Does sounds like you're in a  bit of a pickle. This might be controversial- when I was really ill, I did avoid things that would really trigger me badly and send me into a compulsion spiral. I just wasn't ready for the exposure to something bigt- maybe you're trying to do too much at once? The stuff that used to really trigger me from TV doesn't bother me in the slightest these days.

Like I said, maybe controversial, given that we generally say that we need to not avoid... but maybe it's better that you don't avoid something a little easier to handle and then gradually expose yourself to what really bothers you?

Binx 

[gingerbreadgirl]

6 minutes ago, Binxy said:

Hi GBG,

Does sounds like you're in a  bit of a pickle. This might be controversial- when I was really ill, I did avoid things that would really trigger me badly and send me into a compulsion spiral. I just wasn't ready for the exposure to something bigt- maybe you're trying to do too much at once? The stuff that used to really trigger me from TV doesn't bother me in the slightest these days.

Like I said, maybe controversial, given that we generally say that we need to not avoid... but maybe it's better that you don't avoid something a little easier to handle and then gradually expose yourself to what really bothers you?

Binx 

Hi binx

Glad you're still doing well  thanks as always for the sound advice. 

The thing is I am generally quite triggered by literally any TV, films, etc. Because I never know what will be in them. If I was to say to my partner I refuse to watch anything it would be a huge huge capitulation to ocd (cos we love doing that on an evening and do it almost every evening). So I try to just watch and see it through, which helps sometimes and not others. How do I make myself watch without flying into a spiral if a relevant topic comes up? X 

[taurean]

Hi GBG (I have relocated upstairs to my lovely office in the loft-room whilst I await an engineer to fit a smartmeter ).

Now here we are at the nitty-gritty aren't we? this is what its all about, and why you can't currently break free? 

The young clinical psychologist in Lauren Callaghan's practice in London that Ashley was able to recommend to me was faced with this issue with me. In fact several times when I was due to meet her I felt so ill with the consequential anxiety from OCD, but made myself get there. I think this is an element of recovery - making ourselves tackle things we have to do, even when not feeling so good. 

My issue was similarly broad to yours, but from the OCD theme of harm and violence. If such an item came up in book film  TV or radio, or posters on my journeys, a trigger could pop up and the OCD personalise it - you could do this or that i.e. the OCD was teaming up with the cognitive distortion of personalisation.

So how did we get round this? Well she was clear that I was not, however much I wanted to, to duck away from the item just because it was a trigger. Rather I was to think - "ah there is the OCD reacting" then practice not believing or connecting with it - however strong that urge or however believable it felt, before refocusing gently and firmly away.

So, reading a book for example, a  trigger would come, I would recognise it as OCD, read through it without believing it, then move on to the next page etc. so the refocus in such circumstances was to move on (in normal refocus the forum likes, get back to what I was doing -  reading the book.)

If my brain tried to shift me back to the intrusion, I was to just note, then return to the book.

Its all about practice makes perfect. At first the OCD kept winning: but gradually I started to manage to do this, and in due course Roy was winning and the OCD was on the run.

That was the game-changer. I knew the OCD was lying, I knew it was using personalisation to its own ends. I knew from the C bit of CBT that it was attacking my true core character values, and alleging I could act opposite to them.

The first success was when I carried on reading, and ultimately really enjoying, a book that had several triggers in it. That was a eureka moment. 

I then found myself not noticing the posters on journeys, or at least not making any violent and personalised connections with them.

A stanchion at Marylebone station that had had a trigger poster on it and so become something of a phobia, became benign. I could walk right up to it, whatever it had on it, and say boo to it.

CBT does work - it's why I champion it here, why this charity means so much to me. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by taurean

[gingerbreadgirl]

3 hours ago, taurean said:

Hi GBG (I have relocated upstairs to my lovely office in the loft-room whilst I await an engineer to fit a smartmeter ).

Now here we are at the nitty-gritty aren't we? this is what its all about, and why you can't currently break free? 

The young clinical psychologist in Lauren Callaghan's practice in London that Ashley was able to recommend to me was faced with this issue with me. In fact several times when I was due to meet her I felt so ill with the consequential anxiety from OCD, but made myself get there. I think this is an element of recovery - making ourselves tackle things we have to do, even when not feeling so good. 

My issue was similarly broad to yours, but from the OCD theme of harm and violence. If such an item came up in book film  TV or radio, or posters on my journeys, a trigger could pop up and the OCD personalise it - you could do this or that i.e. the OCD was teaming up with the cognitive distortion of personalisation.

So how did we get round this? Well she was clear that I was not, however much I wanted to, to duck away from the item just because it was a trigger. Rather I was to think - "ah there is the OCD reacting" then practice not believing or connecting with it - however strong that urge or however believable it felt, before refocusing gently and firmly away.

So, reading a book for example, a  trigger would come, I would recognise it as OCD, read through it without believing it, then move on to the next page etc. so the refocus in such circumstances was to move on (in normal refocus the forum likes, get back to what I was doing -  reading the book.)

If my brain tried to shift me back to the intrusion, I was to just note, then return to the book.

Its all about practice makes perfect. At first the OCD kept winning: but gradually I started to manage to do this, and in due course Roy was winning and the OCD was on the run.

That was the game-changer. I knew the OCD was lying, I knew it was using personalisation to its own ends. I knew from the C bit of CBT that it was attacking my true core character values, and alleging I could act opposite to them.

The first success was when I carried on reading, and ultimately really enjoying, a book that had several triggers in it. That was a eureka moment. 

I then found myself not noticing the posters on journeys, or at least not making any violent and personalised connections with them.

A stanchion at Marylebone station that had had a trigger poster on it and so become something of a phobia, became benign. I could walk right up to it, whatever it had on it, and say boo to it.

CBT does work - it's why I champion it here, why this charity means so much to me. 

Hi Roy 

This is great advice thanks so much for taking the time to write this out. My brain is already chattering about all the reasons why my ocd is "different" but of course it isn't! I just have to do as you say and try not to connect with it. 

Thanks again x

[gingerbreadgirl]

The ironic thing is that when my ocd is good I am a much nicer, kinder and just generally better person than when ocd is bad. When ocd is bad I become irritable and unkind and self centred. So who exactly benefits from me doing compulsions?! Nobody! I worry so much about being a bad person that it actually makes it a self fulfilling prophecy. Sigh. Ocd is stupid. 

[taurean]

2 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

The ironic thing is that when my ocd is good I am a much nicer, kinder and just generally better person than when ocd is bad. When ocd is bad I become irritable and unkind and self centred. So who exactly benefits from me doing compulsions?! Nobody! I worry so much about being a bad person that it actually makes it a self fulfilling prophecy. Sigh. Ocd is stupid. 

And that of course is in itself a vicious flower diagram creating a cycle of distress. 

This is the cycle wheel that we all have to "spoke" to stop the anxiety spiral of distress. 

So take a look at the elements in that "wheel" and see where you can "spoke" it with a thinking and behavioural change that challenges this. 

[gingerbreadgirl]

Thanks Roy, as always you speak a great deal of sense