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Let's Be Careful Of Paying Too Much Attention To Statistics


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If we focused on all the stats being touted around re OCD treatment, we might be missing out on something that can really be beneficial to us. 

When I was desperate to try meds, as I thought they might switch off constantly-repeating intrusions in my mental chatter, I didn't pay too much attention to the stats about how successful they were in helping people with OCD. I needed to try and find one that I could tolerate, then see what it did for me. 

It was a tough challenge, over three separate attempts, but I made it. 

Did the med, Citalopram, help stop those constantly - repeating thoughts? No, unfortunately. 

But it has provided me with "water wings" to help me swim through many challenges and balanced out my mood swings. 

Did anything else help re those constantly-repeating thoughts? Yes, learning and applying mindfulness.

CBT may not be the only doctrine needed to overcome our OCD problems: in my case I also found great benefit in recovery from "The Four Steps concept out of the book" Brainlock", and learning to be forgiving and kind to myself. 

Elsewhere on the forums it was mentioned that "CBT only helped 50% of OCD sufferers" 

Leaving aside whether that statement is factual or not, I personally think a lot of people give up on CBT, aren't carrying it out properly, or aren't given enough therapy time to learn the thinking and behavioural changes needed, and get doing the work to apply them. 

Plus, as I mentioned above, other doctrines - and for some meds - might be needed in order for an individual to overcome his or her OCD. 

Not all statistics are helpful. Some discourage and so can be unhelpful. 

Edited by taurean
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57 minutes ago, taurean said:

Elsewhere on the forums it was mentioned that "CBT only helped 50% of OCD sufferers" 

Taurean is right, statistics mean nothing.  Firstly no idea where this stat came from but I would take with a pinch of salt.   Plus, always remember what Paul says 'there are black swans out there'!  What that means is, even if the odds of recovery are low, that does not mean you can't recover!!!!

As for the stats about CBT....  remember there are different types of CBT, as in CBT with OCD expert and CBT with non OCD experts.       So stats for CBT don't mean a great deal, yes chances of recovery with a non OCD expert could be lower, that actually doesn't mean that CBT can not help you, it just means you have to keep pushing for more, and maybe trying to access a better therapist. 

Please don't give up, your next course of treatment could lead you to become a black swan!

 

 

 

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This is so true! Statistics cannot tell you what the outcome will be for a single individual because so many factors come into play. Statistics can also be very misleading, these things can depend so much on how the question is asked and when, how exactly do we define 'recovery' and when exactly are we asking people if they have recovered?

In any case, it's like that with most things in life, you just have to follow your own path and do your best!

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Great topic, Roy! I was only talking about statistics this evening, albeit in a different context. I fell pregnant when I was 41, even though statistically my fertility was low. Plus, (and I didn’t know the statistics at the time), apparently I had a high risk of miscarriage. I was also statistically more likely to suffer from various conditions during my pregnancy. I had no issues and my beautiful girl turned 4 yesterday. That’s statistics for you! ?

Aiming to be a black swan, Ashley! Love that!

Edited by Emsie
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Didn't someone once say "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics?"

At work, in my additional capacity as technical guru, I was often asked to assist with, or take over, apparently impossible cases. 

My view was always that what someone else thought impossible might only be improbable. 

And improbable things can be possible. 

So I opened my mind, ignored others pre-conceived ideas, and went through a process of "blue sky thinking" - considering every solution my brain could conjure up, however unlikely or improbable. 

I did this in a very detached way, without fear or concern. Why? Well that would have held me back, wharped my thinking. 

And anyway, the cases had been thought to be impossible. 

I was able to turn round some of those cases, find a resolution - and wow was that empowering and pleasureful. 

I had read a piece in my hero Norman Vincent Peale's wonderful book "The Power Of Positive Thinking" headed "I Don't Believe In Defeat". It is so encouraging, so dynamic. And has helped me so very much. 

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Yes, but in combination with meds the success rate rises to 80%. . The vast majority of those who fail to respond to this treatment combination do so because they become demoralized and throw in the towel.

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55 minutes ago, Handy said:

The vast majority of those who fail to respond to this treatment combination do so because they become demoralized and throw in the towel.

How do you know that to be the case? 

What about those whose CBT was not up to standard from a skilled professional experienced in OCD, was not for long enough, they didn't fully understand and accept the cognitive part, or they failed to do make the necessary thinking and behavioural changes? 

And those, like me, who had plenty of skilled CBT from which I was doing the necessary work, was taking meds, but needed extra concepts - The Four Steps, Mindfulness and self-love in order to get better? 

I wasn't demoralised, I simply needed extra therapies - CBT and meds were not enough on their own. 

Edited by taurean
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3 hours ago, taurean said:

How do you know that to be the case? 

What about those whose CBT was not up to standard from a skilled professional experienced in OCD, was not for long enough, they didn't fully understand and accept the cognitive part, or they failed to do make the necessary thinking and behavioural changes? 

And those, like me, who had plenty of skilled CBT from which I was doing the necessary work, was taking meds, but needed extra concepts - The Four Steps, Mindfulness and self-love in order to get better? 

I wasn't demoralised, I simply needed extra therapies - CBT and meds were not enough on their own. 

I think it can also simply take a person a long time to understand and identify the mistakes they are making. I had CBT 10 years ago and it helped, at the time I thought that I had it figured out. Only now, looking back, I realise that I was still doing a lot of things wrong (ruminating, checking, testing), but didn't identify it as such. So now I'm trying to change my ways yet again and maybe in a few years time I'll look back and realise some of the missteps I'm making now. It's also complicated that OCD can take on different forms, I had a lot of the stuff with intrusive thoughts figured out, but I never realised that the anxiety could manifest itself through physical symptoms, which absolutely threw me off when it did happen and I had no idea what I was dealing with. Ultimately, we are dealing with a chronic condition and symptoms can re-emerge, so I think a big part of recovery is learning to manage them when they do. 

I don't think that I have ever felt demoralised in the 10 years since I've been diagnosed. I always wanted to get better and believed that I would. The problem was that at times I just didn't know how. 

Edited by malina
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Guest OCDhavenobrain
12 hours ago, malina said:

I think it can also simply take a person a long time to understand and identify the mistakes they are making. I had CBT 10 years ago and it helped, at the time I thought that I had it figured out. Only now, looking back, I realise that I was still doing a lot of things wrong (ruminating, checking, testing), but didn't identify it as such. So now I'm trying to change my ways yet again and maybe in a few years time I'll look back and realise some of the missteps I'm making now. It's also complicated that OCD can take on different forms, I had a lot of the stuff with intrusive thoughts figured out, but I never realised that the anxiety could manifest itself through physical symptoms, which absolutely threw me off when it did happen and I had no idea what I was dealing with. Ultimately, we are dealing with a chronic condition and symptoms can re-emerge, so I think a big part of recovery is learning to manage them when they do. 

I don't think that I have ever felt demoralised in the 10 years since I've been diagnosed. I always wanted to get better and believed that I would. The problem was that at times I just didn't know how. 

I don't believe that anyone who doesn't become their own expert on the matter will be able to come out of the tunnel.  That said, it is not as hard as it sounds, I mean we all take different angles and have different theories here but that is often OCD doing its thing. Many many people recover without ever signing in to the internet and reading about OCD! But that basic knowledge and mastering of your own OCD is key. It is the sufferer who should get all the credit for overcomming OCD. 

What often happens is that the sufferer just makes "seeing a therapist" to another "perfect moment when I can overvome it".

Edited by OCDhavenobrain
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On 18/05/2019 at 12:31, taurean said:

How do you know that to be the case? 

What about those whose CBT was not up to standard from a skilled professional experienced in OCD, was not for long enough, they didn't fully understand and accept the cognitive part, or they failed to do make the necessary thinking and behavioural changes? 

And those, like me, who had plenty of skilled CBT from which I was doing the necessary work, was taking meds, but needed extra concepts - The Four Steps, Mindfulness and self-love in order to get better? 

I wasn't demoralised, I simply needed extra therapies - CBT and meds were not enough on their own. 

I quoted the book you were praising, Brain Lock. I believe it was page 16  if I remember correctly  

CBT plus mindfulness is called DBT. It’s an excellent therapy you should look it up. I rarely see it discussed. 

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Brainlock is a great book. It is the first time, when I read that, that anyone had explained why my brain got locked into repeating mental chatter. 

I haven't come across the DBT terminology. I think the mindfulness-based CBT for OCD is only just catching on over here. 

It is excellent, I agree, and I have had a course of it from a qualified clinical psychologist. It was game-changing and I thoroughly recommend it. 

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