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Going back to CBT this Monday - Intense anxiety (Merged Thread)


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2 hours ago, Phil19 said:

What can I do about these worries?

Try to reduce compulsions you do in response to them including:
Rumination
Cleaning
Posting them in detail on the forums each time you have them

If you want the anxiety to go away and the worries to fade, you have to stop the behaviors you are doing that make them stick around.  Start following the advice we have given you, get professional help if possible, and change how you respond.

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1 hour ago, dksea said:

Try to reduce compulsions you do in response to them including:
Rumination
Cleaning
Posting them in detail on the forums each time you have them

If you want the anxiety to go away and the worries to fade, you have to stop the behaviors you are doing that make them stick around.  Start following the advice we have given you, get professional help if possible, and change how you respond.

The problem is I seem to doubt my partner a lot unless I see it happen. Sometimes with my ocd she can lie and say she never touched something even if I see it. 

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45 minutes ago, Phil19 said:

The problem is I seem to doubt my partner a lot unless I see it happen. Sometimes with my ocd she can lie and say she never touched something even if I see it. 

It doesn't matter whether you see it or not.  It doesn't matter whether something touched the bin or not.  It doesn't matter whether the bin had a toilet plunger in it or not.  You are trying to resolve the wrong problem, you are trying to prove to yourself whether or not something is "contaminated".  If you want to break free from OCD you need to stop trying to solve that problem, you need to accept that these are not questions you have to answer, they do NOT matter like you have come to believe they do. 

Maybe your partner touched the bin, then she touched the washing machine.  So what?  Thats what you have to start saying to yourself, thats how you need to start acting.  So what?  Who cares!  Things get touched, things get dirty, it happens.  Yes, the idea of things being "contaminated" makes you feel anxious, I get that, we all do.  All OCD sufferers have thoughts that make us anxious.  When I was younger my primary anxiety was that I would be sick in public, especially on transit.  I didn't get over that anxiety by proving to myself that it would never happen, I have no way of knowing if it will happen in the future.  Maybe it will!  It would certainly be an unpleasant experience, but then guess what?  I go on with my life.  

Just last weekend I went to Tokyo Disneyland with some friends.  One of them brought along her husband and 4 year old child.  We had a blast, but at dinner he ate a little too much and threw up.  It was unfortunate, and I'm sure a little embarrassing for his parents, but they got him cleaned up and we went on with our day.  Old me would have freaked out if that happened. But current me was just mildly bothered.  Its life, it happens, I've learned to accept that AND that you can feel uncomfortable about something without dwelling on it or ruminating on it.  Feeling anxiety is just that, a feeling, it doesn't mean a threat is real, it doesn't mean you have to do ANYTHING about it.  You are allowed to go on with your life even if you feel anxious.  

So you had the thought that maybe your washing machine was "contaminated'.  Ok, that thought is real.  
That thought caused you to feel anxiety.  Ok, that feeling is real.
That anxiety is very unpleasant.  Ok, that is a real feeling too.
But that doesn't mean you have to prove your washing machine isn't contaminated. You can completely ignore the washing machine and go about your day, you are allowed to do that.  You might not be thrilled at first to do it.  Your OCD affected brain might scream at you "No, you have to solve this!!" but you really don't have to.  You can decide to take a different path and just go on with your day.  The more you do so, the weaker the anxiety becomes.  Until one day, you're like me and you can go on with your day without worrying about it.  Its not going to happen overnight, its not like flipping a switch.  You have to repeat the same, positive, behavior over and over.    That the way out, thats the way away from the anxiety.  No shortcuts, no tricks, just doing the right thing over and over, like exercise.  The sooner you start, the sooner you'll improve and the sooner you improve, the less anxiety you will have.  

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Yes the issue is I’ve been focusing on trying to prove if it actually happened I mean if it did it would be a disaster I find it hard to accept if it touched the bin and then machine everything is ok. Problem is it would be irrational to buy a new machine if she touched the bin and did wash her hands. People often say say so what if somebody touched something I don’t feel this way it troubles me a lot I really find it hard to break. With the letter box the only way I was able to let it go was sort ofaccept that she never took the letter from the bin. 

Problem is she touched the door handle and key too yet I have not went on a journey about that being contaminated

Edited by Phil19
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15 hours ago, Phil19 said:

Yes the issue is I’ve been focusing on trying to prove if it actually happened I mean if it did it would be a disaster 

Yes, the issue is that you've been trying to prove if it actually happened.
No, if it did it would NOT be a disaster.
 

15 hours ago, Phil19 said:

I find it hard to accept if it touched the bin and then machine everything is ok.

Why?  This is something that happens literally everyday in millions, if not billions of homes across the planet.  People touch things that you would think are "contaminated" and then touch other things, and then other things, etc.  Its how the world works, and its no big deal, its not a crisis.  The only reason you think its a crisis is because you have an illness called OCD.
 

16 hours ago, Phil19 said:

People often say say so what if somebody touched something I don’t feel this way it troubles me a lot I really find it hard to break.

Yes, absolutely it troubles you, we all understand that, we all have OCD, we have all been through this too.  And yes its hard to break, if it was easy none of us would be on this forum, none of us would take medication every day, none of us would go to therapy for it.  But just because its hard to break the habit doesn't mean you are right for doing it.  It's hard to stop smoking too, but its healthier to stop.  Its hard for some people to stop gambling, but its better that they do.  And its hard for you to stop worrying, but the alternative is to continue suffering for the rest of your life, with things probably getting even worse.

So you can keep buying in to these worries, keep believing they are worth spending time on, keep trying to "solve" them and failing (because its impossible), and more and more will become contaminated in your world until there is nothing left.
OR you can change your direction, you can start listening to what we are telling you, you can start challenging these thoughts and break the cycle of anxiety you are in.  Yes it is hard, but the alternative is perpetual suffering. 

We can not choose for you, you have to decide you want to do things differently.  But if you don't, nothing we say to you here will matter.

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1 hour ago, dksea said:

Yes, the issue is that you've been trying to prove if it actually happened.
No, if it did it would NOT be a disaster.
 

Why?  This is something that happens literally everyday in millions, if not billions of homes across the planet.  People touch things that you would think are "contaminated" and then touch other things, and then other things, etc.  Its how the world works, and its no big deal, its not a crisis.  The only reason you think its a crisis is because you have an illness called OCD.
 

Yes, absolutely it troubles you, we all understand that, we all have OCD, we have all been through this too.  And yes its hard to break, if it was easy none of us would be on this forum, none of us would take medication every day, none of us would go to therapy for it.  But just because its hard to break the habit doesn't mean you are right for doing it.  It's hard to stop smoking too, but its healthier to stop.  Its hard for some people to stop gambling, but its better that they do.  And its hard for you to stop worrying, but the alternative is to continue suffering for the rest of your life, with things probably getting even worse.

So you can keep buying in to these worries, keep believing they are worth spending time on, keep trying to "solve" them and failing (because its impossible), and more and more will become contaminated in your world until there is nothing left.
OR you can change your direction, you can start listening to what we are telling you, you can start challenging these thoughts and break the cycle of anxiety you are in.  Yes it is hard, but the alternative is perpetual suffering. 

We can not choose for you, you have to decide you want to do things differently.  But if you don't, nothing we say to you here will matter.

Yes but it’s 95% sure she cleaned her hands. My ocd goes with the worst case worry. Despite her telling me 50 times she washed her hands I don’t believe it. Strange thing is I won’t even enter in the idea the back door handle is dirty despite the fact I’m claiming the machine is. So do I really believe it? That’s my fear.

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3 hours ago, Phil19 said:

Yes but it’s 95% sure she cleaned her hands. My ocd goes with the worst case worry. Despite her telling me 50 times she washed her hands I don’t believe it.

Yes, OCD is about doubt, even if someone tells you something, you can still continue to doubt, thats why reassurance doesn't work, thats why checking doesn't work, thats why all compulsions don't work, the problem is not that you haven't been given information, the problem is your brain isn't properly processing that information.  So you can keep trying to force it to process the information, or you can accept that its broken and decide to move on.
 

3 hours ago, Phil19 said:

So do I really believe it? That’s my fear.

Yes, we understand what your fears are.  Us understanding what your fears are has never been the problem Phil, the problem is you aren't recognizing the REAL problem, that you keep trying to "solve" these fears rather than recognize that the fears don't matter.

The problem is not whether or not your partner washed her hands, the problem is that you continue to believe in this "contamination" and that its something you have to fear and do something about.  Your life is being controlled by a massively over exaggerated fear, THAT is the problem.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am still struggling with the bin germs. My partner put something in a bin which contains a toilet plunger and there was washing on the washing line I worry despite it not directly touching that the germs will get close? I am regularly worrying over these bin germs due to blocked toilet plungers being in the bin.

I also have these existential worries daily I wonder if they will ever go? Can I ever forget the free will and Solipsism questions?

Also my fear of flying continues I want to fly to NYC I hope by saving the money I can some how go? If not I have to content myself with going by train to places?

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What do you want us to say, Phil, thst we haven't said 100 times?

We get that you continue to have intrusive thoughts. That's nothing new. We all have them or had them. We also get that you continue to do compulsions. That and ERP is where you need to focus. If you ever want a life with few of those annoying thoughts, you have to identify, curb and stop your compulsions and you must challenge your disorder with ERP.

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It’s sad that you’re still caught in ocd’s web. You need to stop trying to prevent things from happening & you need to stop responding to the alarm bells in your head.   Analysing is a compulsion, planning decontamination strategies is a compulsion, carrying out decontamination is a compulsion, asking/monitoring your partner for contamination spread is a compulsion. Mentally running through the order of events in order to check for risks is also a compulsion. Stop doing these things even though it’s really hard or else you’ll be in the same mental place or worse, Phil.

Edited by Orwell1984
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I am unsure if I need to embrace that I just don’t like flying or if I should force myself to fly. The same issue with driving is it worth the money, time and stress doing it again after almost a decade?

Changing jobs too I can’t help that I am tired of the run down town I work in, I can’t help that I hate getting two buses to work now I moved house yes I worry my life is controlled but if perhaps I do get to move jobs closer to home again maybe I need to embrace these changes?

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21 hours ago, Orwell1984 said:

It’s sad that you’re still caught in ocd’s web. You need to stop trying to prevent things from happening & you need to stop responding to the alarm bells in your head.   Analysing is a compulsion, planning decontamination strategies is a compulsion, carrying out decontamination is a compulsion, asking/monitoring your partner for contamination spread is a compulsion. Mentally running through the order of events in order to check for risks is also a compulsion. Stop doing these things even though it’s really hard or else you’ll be in the same mental place or worse, Phil.

I have made some progress sometimes when I get the urge to replace I resist it. The problem is I am fighting these worries every single day it’s a real battle. Some days it wins some days it doesn’t?

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Hi Phil,

I have been reading your post all morning and felt the need to respond because I found myself being able to relate to this type of OCD. I’ve had OCD for 8 years now. It come out of nowhere suddenly and was after a traumatic event in my life. I didn’t even know what OCD was when I developed it. 

I don’t want to go into detail about what compulsions or obsessions I have because I feel it can give another sufferer “ideas” but I will broadly say that I do have contamination OCD, I too spend my life replacing all sorts of things (it’s become very expensive) and going to extreme measures to ensure myself and my home surroundings are “clean”. 

I know the exact feeling where something becomes “contaminated” and it’s unbearable  to even consider keeping it or using it. Whenever you look at the thing you just see contamination and you’ll never look at it the same way again. To save yourself the trouble of using elbows or gloves you just think it’s easier to get rid of it and get a new one. Yep that’s me too. 

Problem is there’s only a temporary relief I’m getting rid of it, until the next thing gets “contaminated”

Now I can’t give you a success story, nor much help because I am sat the same boat as you, but recently I have really grasped these facts.

1. OCD is a liar. It’s not the heroic safety friend that’s looking out for us and keeping us safe. It’s damaging us physically and mentally. It’s like being in a relationship with a manipulative partner   Who says they love us and then they beat us. It’s no different. 

2. Nobody else can fix you. This is why ocd is hard to overcome and therapy is hard to endure. We go into therapy hoping to be fixed. We never seem to come to this place of willing ness to let go of OCD and confront our fears. We have to be willing to face the uncertainty and doubt. 

3. Your feeling anxious anyway. I find this ironic in myself, I see it in you too. I do everything ocd tells me to do and avoid confronting ocd because I don’t want anxiety. But I’m experiencing it anyway. Day in day out. We’re feeling it anyway, we may as well feel it and overcome it. At least there’s something to gain from that. 

I would also like to recommend some things to you. 

1. Claire weekes books/audios you can find them on YouTube. A huge help for the anxiety side. I’m newly trying to learn this technique too.

2. Meditation. Start out a short time each day, find a guided meditation on YouTube. Meditate every single day. This will help you to relax and be more in control of your thoughts. 

3. Exercise. Something I am starting. Burning off all that frustration and excessive energy will really make a big difference. 

4. Sleep, diet, nutrition. I don’t know where you stand with these things but if they aren’t too good your brain becomes s breeding ground for mental issues. 

5. Learn a new coping mechanism for stress. OCD is a coping mechanism for stress. When our stress levels increase our ocd becomes worse. It’s our brains way of being “in control”.when in fact it’s very out of control. For some reason and perhaps only you and your therapist can find out. You feel the need to control, this is why you have ocd. Somewhere along the line you felt out of control of yourself or your life before ocd become a problem. You are using ocd to regain control. But in reality it’s made you out of control. Finding this can be very helpful.

 

i hope this post helps in some way. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am still struggling with bin germs worries. My partner touched a SIM card after she had been to the bin she had washed her hands but I ended up buying a new one and I'm too scared to used that too. I get a parcel today from Hermes and I worry it's been in a bin as this courier is common for putting items in bin how can I be sure it's clean on arrival?

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Oh mate, you are in a right state, and I really feel for you.

But you know that you have to accept that you can't ever be sure about this stuff.

You have ordered this parcel, you want what's in it, so open it and enjoy it.

Easy for me to say....

I have posted a lot today because I'm stuck in a plant room trying to stop checking a bit of machinery,  I'm just trying to let my brain freewheel for a bit. I'll be fine in an hour or so.

Good luck because you know how this works.

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10 hours ago, Phil19 said:

I am still struggling with bin germs worries. My partner touched a SIM card after she had been to the bin she had washed her hands but I ended up buying a new one and I'm too scared to used that too. I get a parcel today from Hermes and I worry it's been in a bin as this courier is common for putting items in bin how can I be sure it's clean on arrival?

You can't. Move on.

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11 hours ago, Phil19 said:

how can I be sure it's clean on arrival?

Better question, why do you need to be sure?

Untold millions of people around the world today will receive packages.  Almost none of them will react the way you are.  They will simply open the package, take out what's inside, and get on with their life.

Is it because their packages are all "clean"?  Nope.
Is it because their packages have never touched anyone whose ever touched a bin?  Nope.
Is it because they have some magic immunity to "bin germs" but you are somehow susceptible to?  Nope.

The threat isn't real.  Until you choose to treat the threat as not real you will remain trapped.

You will NEVER be able to prove there are no "bin germs" on things. If that is the standard you set for yourself before you can live your life, well you will remain stuck forever.
Or you can choose to accept that these worries are junk, that they are unpleasant but you can live your life anyway and do what you want even when they say you shouldn't.  You can ignore what they are telling you.  Or you can remain stuck.  Its your choice.

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Yes I understand about packages not being clean I mean once it arrived I forgot about it.

The SIM card is a strange one as she touched my phone in the past after being at the bin and washing her hands. She also touched my other technology like PlayStation. Now I don’t worry if i go to the bin I shower. So yes why am I so focused on the SIM card when she touches other stuff door handles and tech without worry? I mentioned before my mind has a bad habit of latching onto certain worries. I touched her phone and my wallet the other day and I worried and then I touched the SIM card tonight to my iPod and worried. So my questions:

Why does my mind focus on one issue often similar situations which I don’t worry over?

and why does some worries leave my mind quicker than others which linger longer?

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5 hours ago, Phil19 said:

So yes why am I so focused on the SIM card when she touches other stuff door handles and tech without worry?

Because you have OCD.  Because it just works that way.  You don't have to know the details as to why, the why is unimportant.  You just need to know what to do about it now.
If you're house is on fire you don't stop to figure out why its on fire, you get out of the house!  Maybe you can take some time after to figure out why, to try and prevent it again, but mostly you just need to get away from the fire and then move forward with your life.  Same here, you need to do the steps to get out from under OCD's control.  It doesn't matter whether you worry about SIM cards and not PlayStations, or vice versa.  All that matters is that when you DO worry about SIM cards, you don't do compulsions.  You don't replace.  You don't wash.  You don't ask your partner to wash.  None of it.  You break the cycle of the OCD. 

 

6 hours ago, Phil19 said:

Why does my mind focus on one issue often similar situations which I don’t worry over?

and why does some worries leave my mind quicker than others which linger longer?

Again, this is just how OCD works.  It doesn't matter why.  Its just the reality you live in.  Worrying about why, focusing on why, isn't going to help.  You need to focus on making the changes to your behavior and how you respond to these thoughts, not dwell on the why.

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I feel my ocd is at is worst. Today I went from worrying I touched bins false thoughts to worrying I went close to a towel when I wiped my backside to worrying I pooped myself, a bin bag touching me at work and my mum not washing her hands after going to the toilet and touching my door handle and light switch. 

That at is my day basically each day is a struggle right now. Things have got much worse. I didn’t think it could get much worse but sadly each day is a real battle right now

My day wasn’t done yet my partner went to the bins I seen her wash her hands but the front door was locked so I worried when this was done and worry the handle is contaminated again this is how bad my ocd is right now

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I am constantly getting false mental images of new items I’m ordering online coming near the bins before I get them. Or I worry someone has touched the bins then door handles and so on how can I think more clearly?

Edited by Phil19
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9 hours ago, Phil19 said:

how can I think more clearly?

By learning and applying CBT techniques.
By working at doing fewer and fewer compulsions.
By recognizing and choosing to accept what OCD is, how it affects you, and what you need to do change it.
By doing the right things over and over again over time to unlearn the bad behaviors and learn how to respond to the faulty wiring in your brain.

I can not recommend highly enough seeing a mental health professional and working with them, but that is going to require you to do the things you have been unwilling to do, such as ERP.

I'm sorry that things have gotten worse for you, but sadly I am not surprised.  Thats what happens when you give in to OCD, when you engage in compulsions, when you don't make the choices that can lead to recovery, things get worse.  The good news is they can get better, but you have to make the right choices and you have to be willing to put in the work.

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My ocd has been playing up again. A tiny piece of used toilet paper I kicked it in the bathroom and i put my foot on the table my fear is germs have spread the coffee table has drawers so I worry the contents are dirty. I already feared the table is dirty and never replaced it after my mum done a wash at her house and never washed her hands and touched the table. Could the contents of the drawer be dirty? The contents being my keys wallet and iPad 

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