Going back to CBT this Monday - Intense anxiety (Merged Thread)

[Phil19]

The shirts are no longer for sale on website so can’t replace but can’t stop sniffing the ones I got

[taurean]

You can stop, but right now you won't, because you are still believing what your OCD is telling you. 

And that is what you need to change. 

Only the sufferer themselves can change their thinking, change their behaviours. We can't do it for them. 

[Angst]

On 28/06/2019 at 18:11, Phil19 said:

So wedding is a week away I have had heightened ocd due to it.

I ended up returning most of those shirts I bought and shoes. By fear was the shop being contaminated now though.

But anyway many months ago I worried I peed myself when I never and also when I walked past dog poop I worried it magically got on the shirts also I never checked my backside was clean when I tried suit on so basically I worry I will smell of poop or pee on the wedding day. I did get new shirts but sat in my cupboard close to the other one. I already tried one of the ones I think was pee germs so the suit would already be contaminated. Course I am sure I never peed myself and those clothes were washed long ago and had I really peed myself I would have known but the ocd is always gonna day “I smell of pee or poop on wedding day.” 

Ordering more shirts won’t help as I worry about them. It’s a bit of a loop and I’ve found reason to worry about every shirt. So how can I enjoy the day worrying I smell or worrying the shirt isn’t pressed enough? 

 

On 26/06/2019 at 13:54, Ashley said:

There is always hope Phil  

It's a cliché I use a lot on here, but it is true. It's not the 20 year old contamination we need to change, it's your perception of the 20 year old contamination. If and when that is changed, the thing you feared will no longer be something you avoid.

 

Hard work and being willing to take a risk I would suggest. 

Of course it's not that straight forward, but in essence the way every single person overcomes OCD is through putting in really hard, anxiety provoking work and learning to be willing to take a risk (that something may be contaminated) but using/touching it regardless.  I have a few photos of me doing just that if it is helpful I can share.

 

I don't know if I am understanding this part correctly Phil.  Is your therapist saying you should bleach something to make it clean as a way of doing therapy?

 

You're on the fence about CBT?  If so then it may be that right now CBT is not for you. 

So if we look at my fear of using toilets. I started my CBT knowing one day I would have to touch a public toilet seat and put my hand in toilet water. I was never comfortable about it, I didn't want to do it, I was getting anxious thinking about it.. but I knew I had to do it to overcome my worries and fear.   If you can't see the benefits of doing the therapy (even if it worries and makes anxious) then I am not sure the therapy will actually work at this time whilst you're in that mindset.

Talking about issues, counselling isn't CBT of course.  CBT is meant to be a talking and doing therapy.  Overcoming OCD will not happen without talking and doing. 

I hope my points are not too blunt, but as someone who's been there I thought some straight talking was needed.

 

Hi Phil19

The first quote is you response to Ashley’s email. The second quote is from Ashley. There is no dialogue. In fact there is a topic switch to shirts. 

This form of topic switch and lack of dialogue is typical of your posts in all your threads.

Therapy according to Beck the originator of cognitive therapy  therapy depends on Socratic questioning. He himself says this. Surprisingly a lot of the techniques of successful therapies go back to the ancient Greeks. 

I think a dialogue is also helpful in threads on this site. If there is no dialogue or very little then really what is the point of endless repetition with minimal change in topic? I think that it would meet the set criteria  of a compulsion. 

Edited June 30, 2019 by Angst

[Phil19]

All I know is I can’t look forward to the wedding when I fear my shirts being dirty the ocd thoughts spoil the day. I know it’s not the thought that’s the problem it’s how my mind focuses on it but I had this worry with the stag party I worried the shoes were dirty this is how my ocd operates 

[taurean]

And..... You know how to deal with this Phil. 

Tell us how you should be dealing with this? 

Then you can commence to do it. 

Edited June 30, 2019 by taurean

[dksea]

1 hour ago, Phil19 said:

All I know is I can’t look forward to the wedding when I fear my shirts being dirty the ocd thoughts spoil the day. I know it’s not the thought that’s the problem it’s how my mind focuses on it but I had this worry with the stag party I worried the shoes were dirty this is how my ocd operates 

The wedding day hasn't even happened yet, but you've already predetermined that its spoiled.  You are creating a self fulfilling prophecy.
Maybe your shirts are dirty.  Do you think its impossible for people to have fun when their shirts are dirty?
Its true, OCD adds unwanted anxiety to our lives, but we have the power to fight back against it.  You have to make choices and change your situation.

You can't control that you happened to have OCD, any more than I can control that I have a peanut allergy.  It makes some situations more difficult for me compared to others, but I can't change it so I have to adjust to it. Everyone has situations in their life that add difficulty, and each persons difficulties are at least a little different than others.  Its fair to struggle with difficulties, but at some point you also have to do what you can to live life inspire of those difficulties if you want things to have a possibility of changing for the better.

[Phil19]

22 hours ago, dksea said:

The wedding day hasn't even happened yet, but you've already predetermined that its spoiled.  You are creating a self fulfilling prophecy.
Maybe your shirts are dirty.  Do you think its impossible for people to have fun when their shirts are dirty?
Its true, OCD adds unwanted anxiety to our lives, but we have the power to fight back against it.  You have to make choices and change your situation.

You can't control that you happened to have OCD, any more than I can control that I have a peanut allergy.  It makes some situations more difficult for me compared to others, but I can't change it so I have to adjust to it. Everyone has situations in their life that add difficulty, and each persons difficulties are at least a little different than others.  Its fair to struggle with difficulties, but at some point you also have to do what you can to live life inspire of those difficulties if you want things to have a possibility of changing for the better.

Well they can have fun but I fear if I smell it will cause me anxiety and it will be a disaster. I guess the issue isn’t the thoughts it’s the way I repeat and go over these thoughts? I was the same at my stag night the closer it got the more stressed I got. I mean was the shoes dirty at the stag night? On the night I never even worried but I worried for days and weeks before hand. I have noticed this week my compulsions have been worse perhaps due to the wedding my ocd has gone up a gear? My partner said if I worried about the shirts why didn’t I return them months ago? It troubled me less but the closer it’s got the perfectionism thing has kicked in and the urge to replace has. Sadly like the irons I replaced them so often I got no where the relief lasted about a day so I had to give up 

[Phil19]

Should I be challenging the thoughts that my shirts are dirty or ignore them write the thoughts down what will help most?

[Phil19]

The ocd beat me and I ordered another shirt I fear it will be the same shirt I returned and that could be dirty anyway so can’t win. 

[taurean]

A combination of :

Ignoring the thought that the shirts are dirty, and the urge to replace, and refocusing away to other activity 

Challenging the thought that the shirts are dirty and need replacing or short structured sessions of ERP (exposure and response prevention). During the sessions remember how OCD works and that with this contamination theme it is grossly exaggerating nil or minimum risk so that it triggers fear and threat in your mind. 

Remind yourself there is no real threat. 

Gradually as the sessions continue your anxiety level should reduce. 

And by not believing or connecting with the intrusions, in due course they should lose power and frequency. 

Writing down the thoughts will induce the fear response - but use it sparingly just to help exposure and provide a feeling of relief as you screw up and discard the words. 

The first two elements will need to be frequently deployed until you approach the "gain line" between success and failure. 

And when you eventually "burst through" the gain line, you will realise how much the power of the OCD is waning. 

[taurean]

Just now, Phil19 said:

The ocd beat me and I ordered another shirt I fear it will be the same shirt I returned and that could be dirty anyway so can’t win. 

Cancel the order. It would be wasted money and unnecessary. 

 

2 minutes ago, Phil19 said:

I fear it will be the same shirt I returned and that could be dirty anyway so can’t win. 

OCD will always beat us while we continue to believe it. It could be, but it isn't dirty is it? Only OCD says it is, and it lies and exaggerates. 

And this shows the pointlessness of carrying out a compulsion - OCD will simply side-track it. 

 

[Phil19]

1 minute ago, taurean said:

Cancel the order. It would be wasted money and unnecessary. 

 

OCD will always beat us while we continue to believe it. It could be, but it isn't dirty is it? Only OCD says it is, and it lies and exaggerates. 

And this shows the pointlessness of carrying out a compulsion - OCD will simply side-track it. 

 

You are correct but sadly I believe the ocd in finding it hard to break through these thoughts and see they are wrong. All this week I’ve had intrusive thoughts and I believe them. When people say it’s false and there is no need to worry I don’t quite get it as it seems real to me. I worry the new shirts are dirty because my partner touched the bin but did wash her hands but as my ocd so hyped up I won’t let her touch my clothes or I freak about touching her hand. I believe it’s because the wedding has made me more sensitive to stuff this week.

Obviously I have to wear something I have to decide if I wear something worrying it smells of pee or wear a new shirt I ordered but worry it’s the same ones I returned? I guess if it really comes to it the shirts I don’t use this weekend I can always return. In my usual ocd fashion I wouldn’t collect the new shirt from the place where I returned the old one.

Crazy thing is I’m happy to wear the other shirts during the day but the ocd says I can’t wear the same shirt all day and I need to shower so I can live with “smelling of pee” for half the day but not full day.. I ask why but I guess you will tell me it doesn’t matter why but that’s how my ocd operates I’m unsure why if I knew why maybe it would be easier to last the whole day with one shirt. 

[taurean]

It would, eventually, become a whole lot easier Phil if you believe what we say and not what the OCD says. 

And until you do, you are stuck in a cycle of maintaining, and likely increasing, the power and influence of the OCD. 

[dksea]

41 minutes ago, Phil19 said:

You are correct but sadly I believe the ocd

Yes, this is sad, because believing the OCD is a choice you are making.  Its within your control to change that belief. 
 

43 minutes ago, Phil19 said:

When people say it’s false and there is no need to worry I don’t quite get it as it seems real to me.

Yes, its easy for them to say that because they don't have OCD.  And yes, the anxiety it causes you is real, which is unfortunate.  But you need to work on separating the anxiety you feel from the thoughts you have connected to that anxiety.  

You have the thought that your shirt might be dirty.  Ok, no problem, this is just thought.  You can have pretty much any thought, it doesn't mean its true.  You can think unicorns are real, but that does not make them real.  You can imagine having a huge amount of money, but that won't make you rich.  You can hear a sound outside your window and think its a bear, but that doesn't mean its a bear.  A thought is just a thought.

Because of OCD and your history, having that thought means you have anxiety.  This is unpleasant, sometimes very unpleasant.  Of course you don't want to have anxiety.  But having anxiety does not mean the thought is real.  This is the connection you need to work on breaking.

Consider, for example, someone with a fear of flying.  Obviously being on an airplane is going to cause them anxiety, they will have very real feelings.  And they will probably have lots of "what if" thoughts.  But neither their anxiety nor their what if thoughts have any impact whatsoever on the safety of the plane or what will happen to it during the flight.  Its 100% possible to have intrusive thoughts and have anxiety about those thoughts and the threat to either not be present or be much much much much less strong than actually believed.

So its possible your shirt is dirty.  Its possible you will worry about your shirt on your wedding day.  Its even possible you will have a terrible wedding day.  Technically these are all possible things.  But you are acting as if thats the ONLY possibility.  Its much more likely your shirt is fine.  Even if its not fine, its entirely possible to have a wonderful day.  Even if for some bizarre reason your dirty shirt causes a problem during the wedding day its also entirely possible that it won't be a big deal.  And finally even if your shirt causes some great wedding catastrophe, the odds are that catstrophe won't be the literal end of the world.  And if through some set of extremely unlikely circumstances your slightly dirty shirt cause the literal end of the world, well we won't be around anymore to worry about it so problem solved in one way.

Continuing to ruminate on your shirt, continuing to choose to act as if the problems you worry about MUST be true will not make things better, it will make things worse.  In order to make things better you need to challenge these ideas.  You need to choose to live with the anxiety and make decisions in spite of it.  OCD says don't wear the shirt because it might be dirty?  Wear it anyway.  If its dirty, oh well, its not the end of the world.  But its probably not dirty, and even if it is its probably not something anyone but you will be worried about.  Break the hold OCD has on you by not doing what it demands.  Its an active choice you have to make.  It means putting up with the initial anxiety and taking the harder path, but its the only way out of the mess you have found yourself in.

[Phil19]

Due to my heightened ocd today I blocked the toilet fixed it and showered but my ocd says I never showered and I have to replace everyone it’s like trying to blank the real memory ?

[dksea]

4 hours ago, Phil19 said:

Due to my heightened ocd today I blocked the toilet fixed it and showered but my ocd says I never showered and I have to replace everyone it’s like trying to blank the real memory ?

It doesn’t matter what OCD says or makes you feel, choose to act differently, choose to reject its claims. Also, stop using so much toilet paper  

[Phil19]

56 minutes ago, dksea said:

It doesn’t matter what OCD says or makes you feel, choose to act differently, choose to reject its claims. Also, stop using so much toilet paper  

The ocd seems real The problem is I believe everything the ocd tells me I think that’s been the problem from the start. And yes I know I need to use less toilet paper but I never knew it would block so easily. Last night I wanted to replace a bed today it’s back to keys and door handles. Feels a never ending cycle I want to break free from this but I am struggling. I was going to try a piece of paper with some evidence to challenge these ocd thoughts. It may not help much but atleast I can put the truth down one side and what the ocd tells me at the other side. I always ask why I worry about these things but people always say it doesn’t matter why it is.

Like in the shower I would take a new towel because I worried each time it was dirty and I would try and figure out why it’s dirty and I get a mind blank. 

I know I can’t go on keep changing keys door handle buying shifts and ten of everything. I earn very little it is so basically it means stuff I really need has to wait and I buy all this excess stuff I don’t require.

[Phil19]

People keep telling me not to believe what the ocd says but I am struggling to grasp this because each ocd thought I get right now I treat as a fact 

[taurean]

37 minutes ago, Phil19 said:

People keep telling me not to believe what the ocd says but I am struggling to grasp this because each ocd thought I get right now I treat as a fact 

Then don't do that.

Listen to WE not the OCD. 

OCD lies, fabricates, exaggerates - it is NOT factual. We HAVE TO stop listening to it in order to get better. 

[Phil19]

I feel there is no escape from the plunger and toilet germs. I mean basically I touched the shower tap I had washed my hands but I had touched the plunger before hand and I worry I’m spreading germs. I mean I already do a compulsion by washing my hands when I come out a shower but for months or years washing my hands isn’t enough I need to shower after I clean a toilet for example. I mean again this could have happened before but I don’t feel like replacing everyone it’s a pointless exercise right now because I end up replacing handles like 5 times. My fear is that shower hose will contaminate all the stuff I touch now. I mean I turn a tap off after I clean a toilet but despite plunger germs being very similar I still worry. 

[taurean]

Phil, 

In contamination OCD the contamination is purely in the mind of the sufferer. 

Your threats and fears around this subject mean absolutely nothing to a non-contamination OCD sufferer. 

They would be nothing more than meaningless worthless nonsense to them. 

You have to work towards stopping believing this stuff. Then, when you have learned to do that, you can go about changing your behavioural response; and then all the anxiety will start easing away. 

I have been through this programme and so I know it works for OCD sufferers. 

[Phil19]

1 hour ago, taurean said:

Phil, 

In contamination OCD the contamination is purely in the mind of the sufferer. 

Your threats and fears around this subject mean absolutely nothing to a non-contamination OCD sufferer. 

They would be nothing more than meaningless worthless nonsense to them. 

You have to work towards stopping believing this stuff. Then, when you have learned to do that, you can go about changing your behavioural response; and then all the anxiety will start easing away. 

I have been through this programme and so I know it works for OCD sufferers. 

Yes I agree 

I have been getting mind blanks with the ocd worrying if I did something is this ocd and anxiety too or a serious illnes

[taurean]

Well then that is another manifestation of OCD and not to be believed either! 

[taurean]

For one who has been active on these boards for 7 years, when I see a user say, on an OCD forum, "I am worried if this is OCD or X" - well I am seeing the proof that they are seeking. 

Because it just screams OCD..... 

[dksea]

3 hours ago, Phil19 said:

I need to shower after I clean a toilet for example.

No, you don't.  You need to CHOOSE to stop believing these things Phil.  That doesn't mean the doubt or anxiety will magically disappear, it simply means you will make an active choice to behave differently DESPITE what the OCD anxiety causes you to feel.  If you do that, then yes, in time the anxiety and doubt will fade.  But first you have to change your behavior, THEN you will recover, not the other way around.
 

7 hours ago, Phil19 said:

I am struggling to grasp this because each ocd thought I get right now I treat as a fact 

So choose to stop treating them as facts.  Choose to start treating your OCD differently.  If you want things to change you can't keep doing the same things.  None of us are saying it will be quick or easy, it likely will be slow and hard, but if you don't change things will continue to be bad and probably get worse.  Those are your choices, slow, hard recovery or continuous worsening.
 

3 hours ago, Phil19 said:

My fear is that shower hose will contaminate all the stuff I touch now.

Here's something you can stop doing, stop explaining what your fear is.  We all are very familiar with your fears, and the details don't change what we are going to tell you.
It doesn't matter if you think your door is contaminated because some touched a letter that touched a garbage bin.
It doesn't matter if you think your shower is contaminated because you touched the toilet handle after using the toilet.
It doesn't matter if you think your chair is contaminated because your partner sat on it after being outside and sitting on a public bench somewhere.
None of the details change the fundamental change YOU need to make if you want things to improve, if you want to escape from the OCD.

You could give us a detailed run down, a minute by minute summary of your day.  What we tell you to do will not change.
You could set up video cameras and we could watch you 24/7 for a week or a month or a year.  What we tell you to do will not change.

You need to make ACTIVE choices to change your behavior and your responses.  Right now you think OCD makes you do things.  It does not, thats a lie.  It makes you FEEL like you need to do things, but you can say no.  You can choose to behave differently.  It will often be hard.  It will involve enduring unpleasant feelings and anxiety.  It will not be fun.  But it is the only option.  How fast and how much you recover will largely depend on the choices and actions you make.  It will depend on how aggressive you are willing to be in your treatment, how dedicated you are to doing the opposite of what OCD tells you, and whether or not you follow our advice, or better yet the advice of a trained mental health professional.  You don't have to do this alone, but you alone have to make the choice to do this.  You, alone, have to say "enough is enough, I am going to change" and stick with it.  It is absolutely possible to escape from OCD hell.  It requires you to make choices and take action.  Its not easy, but it is simple.  So what are you going to choose?