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Going back to CBT this Monday - Intense anxiety (Merged Thread)


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8 minutes ago, taurean said:

Absolutely not so Phil. 

To change it would be a compulsion. You feel that will resolve your issue. 

 

It will not. 

There may be a short period of so thinking. But carrying out a compulsion only strengthens not weakens OCD, which will soon be back again with a vengeance. 

 

Yes I get that but this issue has been with me a year I feel if I get that flap off I might stop worrying? I know it’s  not the solution but I am tired suffering. 

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31 minutes ago, Phil19 said:

Yes I get that but this issue has been with me a year I feel if I get that flap off I might stop worrying? I know it’s  not the solution but I am tired suffering. 

No it won't work, and that's exactly how it cons others into carrying out compulsions. 

Compulsions don't work - and they very much make things worse. 

Follow the path we have laid out for you, that is the way forward. 

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6 hours ago, Phil19 said:

I replaced the door handle and that triggered my letter box worries again. I was using stuff from letter box without worry but the worry came back. I believe the worry will only go away once I change the door or letter box that’s the only way to be free of these worries.

All you have to do is read your own words to see whats happening.  You gave in to one compulsion and basically immediately you started worrying about something else.  
 

Quote

but the worry came back


What possible reason do you have to believe that this time will be any different from the countless other times you have given in to a compulsion and yet continued to worry?
What is different about doing THIS particular compulsion that will somehow succeed where every other time its failed?
You MOVED HOUSES because of giving in to compulsions and even THAT wasn't enough to stop your anxieties.  
What are you going to do when you replace the letter box and keep worrying about something?  Replace the door?  Replace your house again?  
Do you really not see that this is an endless cycle?
Every time you give in to replacing you are digging yourself a deeper hole.
You are like a gambler who keeps putting their money in the slot machine, thinking the next time you'll finally win, except in the gamblers case there is at least a remote chance that will happen.  With OCD there is basically no chance that will happen, with OCD the slot machine is rigged.  The only way to win is to STOP PLAYING THE GAME.  
 

 

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So I see the therapist in another week. That was my first appointment in a few months but don’t feel I’ve made any progress this month I still want to replace the letter box and I am having issues where I need to wash my hands when I’m out or I’m not using stuff. An example is those fake poop games they have in the shops I worry it’s like real poop germs so I won’t touch it without fear of contamination. I wonder if it will get better or if I will always suffer like this? I feel I need some sort of strategy to work and get better? 

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I still can’t get over my letter box fears. I have not changed the letter box yet but I fear even if I change it I can’t control the stuff that has been coming in for a year like mail and dvds that the germs could have spread to so my whole house could be ruined it feels this way. My bank card comes with me and I could be transporting toilet germs on me. I mean it’s possible the letter last year never came from the bin but I know even changing the letter box wouldn’t stop what has come in that letter box in the space of the past year. I can’t be sure its clean and not got toilet germs on it. I mean I Duno how I can relax about blocked toilet germs I mean perhaps it never came from the bin but if it did these germs are everywhere?

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What seems to be everywhere are OCD-sourced triggers to which you are connecting, then believing. 

You know what to do Phil. Just note them there, leave them be and get busy on something else. 

What you are doing now will just make intrusions stronger, and more frequent. 

 

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31 minutes ago, taurean said:

What seems to be everywhere are OCD-sourced triggers to which you are connecting, then believing. 

You know what to do Phil. Just note them there, leave them be and get busy on something else. 

What you are doing now will just make intrusions stronger, and more frequent. 

 

You are correct it’s all the same themes toilet germs or dirty laundry same stuff different situations but my fear is always the same. Should I write them all down? My ocd says what if the germs did spread? I know there is little I can do but it makes me want to move house at it’s most powerful. The other day when I had these thoughts I got lots of anxiety.

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No, don't write them down. Just see them for what they are when they come - the agents of OCD to make you believe its underpinning core belief. 

Leaving them be then refocusing away, and keeping doing that, will form a new default thinking pattern and lessen the power of the intrusions. 

 

Edited by taurean
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Exactly. CBT works, but for it to do so, the sufferer must learn what the OCD is up to, what it is, how it works, why it is false, exaggerating or revulsive. 

Then how to make the thinking and behavioural changes that will wrest control back from it. 

I don't think you have accepted the cognitive part Phil. Nor are you Implimenting ways to stop carrying out compulsions. 

 

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2 hours ago, Phil19 said:

One issue I have is I don’t feel I’m any better with all the Cbt I have received I feel my ocd is as bad as ever if not at its worst? 

Going to CBT will change nothing on its own, its like reading a book on exercise.  You have to actually DO the things we are telling you in a systematic fashion.

The reason things aren't changing (and continue to get worse) is because you continue to engage in compulsion, continue to NOT do ERP, and continue to refuse to challenge the thoughts and how OCD is affecting your thinking.   For example:

On 18/06/2019 at 04:21, Phil19 said:

I could be transporting toilet germs on me.

You continue to treat this thought as if it was true, as if your fear itself was a real possibility.  You need to start challenging the very idea that this thought is true, you need to separate the fact that you feel anxiety from the idea that your anxiety is coming from a real place.  

Yes, absolutely, you want the anxiety to stop, of course you do, thats 100% understandable.  The anxiety sucks, the constant worry is draining, we all appreciate that.  I wish there was a simple fix, an easy answer where you could just stop worrying.  That would be amazing, and we'd all be better for it.  But there isn't.  Recovery is possible but you have to do put in the work to get there.  Of course you don't want to, I don't want to exercise and eat healthier, but if I want to lose weight thats what I have to do.  If you want to recover from OCD you have to do the work, and yes its hard and yes its not fun, but its also the only real option you have.  CBT teaches you how you can overcome OCD, but it does not do the work for you, you have to do the work.

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You are correct I need to put the work in but I am struggling to find the motivation to get better. 

I believe changing the door handle added fuel to how I’m thinking and this is why I have an urge to change the letter box.

I am getting therapy but at one appointment a month progress is slow. 

But yes I have tried everything to resist changing the letterbox box today I decided to rip it off the inside came off but outside has some sort of sealant so I was unable to remove it so at the moment I feel in limbo unsure if I will change this letter box or keep it. If the envelope came from the bin I can’t get my head round the bin germs and blocked toilet germs that would be on the letter flap I feel there is no other way but to rip it off?

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48 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

There is another way. DON'T DO IT. And go to work on your ruminating, which is keeping this whole thing alive.

So talk me through it I managed to forget the letter box issue and I accepted everything from the letter box expect phone cases as I carry them on me (contradiction) as I use my bank card. But anyway I accepted everything else after I asked and asked my mum about the letter box and I realised maybe it was a false thought. So then the germ issue happened with the door handle I replaced that handle  and that fuelled my anxiety about the letter box. So why did it manage to bring this worry back up from last year? 

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Look, Phil. You do compulsions, you get more obsessions. New ones, old ones resurfacing. Doesn't matter. Compulsions are the fuel for the OCD engine. 

You haven't figured out that your behavior and thinking is what causes the obsessions, which causes the anxiety.

Edited by PolarBear
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48 minutes ago, taurean said:

Why don't you tell us what you think Phil, based on what we have previously told you? 

See I can brush some of my worries off resist the compulsion and the urge to replace and my head moves on quickly but I can’t do this for them all. Why can I do it for some but others keep me stuck? I know the answer will say as I keep doing compulsions but my point is I had an urge to replace my belt, I felt the anxiety I had the thoughts to throw away and I resisted. It’s a good result but I don’t want to feel this way in the first place. But I was able to forget this worry but others I don’t and I decide I need to replace?

Why if I have skills already to ignore these thoughts am I not doing it for the other ones?

Edited by Phil19
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The answer is still the same Phil. 

The mix of obsessional thoughts may vary, but the end result will be the same - you aren't progressing because you believe (some) of the intrusions and carry out compulsions. 

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1 hour ago, Phil19 said:

Why can I do it for some but others keep me stuck?

Why am I allergic to peanuts but not walnuts?  Who knows, the human body is a complex thing.  I don't need to know why, all I need to know is don't eat peanuts!
It is not important why some thoughts get stuck in OCD sufferers minds and others don't.  You do not need to know why in order to recover.  Recovery is about taking the right actions REGARDLESS of what the worry is.  You need to stop trying to "get your head around" it.  You need to just start doing.  And keep doing.  Once is a first step, but you don't climb a mountain by taking just one step, you climb by taking hundreds, thousands of steps.  
 

1 hour ago, Phil19 said:

It’s a good result but I don’t want to feel this way in the first place.

And I don't want to be overweight in the first place, but I am, so in order to change I have to do whats necessary, which is eat better and exercise more.
Of course you don't want to feel this anxiety, no OCD sufferer does, but the harsh reality is you DO feel it right now.  There is a way to change that, but you have to do the work.  
You don't want to feel this way? OK, fair enough.  We've told you how to get there.  Replacing isn't going to do that.  Yes it feels briefly good, though probably less so over time, but it makes things worse in the long run.

Imagine I offered you $100 today, but you had to pay me back at 10% interest every day until you did.  Now, imagine if I told you that if you wait one month I will give you $10,000 and you don't have to pay me back.  What would you do?  Would you take the $100 today or wait one month for $10,000.  Thats OCD recovery, putting off small relief now, relief that comes at a cost, for big relief in the future.  Its not easy, but its definitely possible, and definitely worth it.

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Guest OCDhavenobrain
3 hours ago, Phil19 said:

So talk me through it I managed to forget the letter box issue and I accepted everything from the letter box expect phone cases as I carry them on me (contradiction) as I use my bank card. But anyway I accepted everything else after I asked and asked my mum about the letter box and I realised maybe it was a false thought. So then the germ issue happened with the door handle I replaced that handle  and that fuelled my anxiety about the letter box. So why did it manage to bring this worry back up from last year? 

Why should anyone talk you into it? It is not our duty to talk you into it, it should be you want to do it and I am afraid I don't see any wanting from you. You need a totally different attitude if something will change here. 

Btw, do you still not believe in CBT? I have maybe missed something but you said in your last thread that you didn't actually believe in CBT.

Take care

Edited by OCDhavenobrain
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CBT is the real McCoy. It's tried, tested - and the only "found wanting" element is users found wanting because they don't stick to the programme, accept that what they are suffering from is OCD, ease off compulsions and change their thinking and behavioural response to the OCD. 

No-one can do this but the sufferer, and those that don't follow the programme through are going to stay stuck. 

Similar to how it is with the full programme of CBT, the responses we give here, based on CBT, require the sufferer to take note and make thinking and behavioural changes. 

We are very patient, very considerate folk - but it is frustrating when the pearls of CBT wisdom that we spout aren't put into practice. 

Come on Phil, you need to apply your mind to what we keep on telling you, and you will start to really make progress. 

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My ocd has taken a turn for the worst tonight not looking for sympathy but want to explain where I’m at. I mean perhaps the wedding is heightened my ocd to a higher level than normal? 

Anyway similar issue my partner brought the green bin in which at one point had plungers and toilet germs on it. She did wash her hands but that wasn’t enough to satisfy me my ocd said “the shirts will be dirty and the germs will spread to the wedding presents”. So basically I did a compulsion and ordered yet more shirts meaning I now have at least six shirts for the wedding and I may have to return some if them. I also got a new belt and some kitchen roll I have refused to use that. My ocd lately has seen me gather up belts, kitchen roll, door handles, and hair gels which I am not using. My finances have almost ran dry now so I realise this is a bit of a problem. I mean nobody can really afford to own six of the same shirt but I have heard of this compulsion before. 

But yeah so I accept it’s wedding stress and my ocd is naturally higher or is it just bad news my ocd has taken another notch up to a worse level? Obviously I am needing help as I am wasting a lot of stuff right now. I am buying so much stuff which I am refusing to use?

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