Testing yourself

[ocdsufferer85]

I don't want to be posting a huge rumination again as I have already done it 1000000s of times.

I just can't logic out why with an ocd you test yourself. 

The urges are there, I know they are false because why would you suddenly want to do something you really can't bare thinking about 

But I feel it's either fight or flight

Stick around and fight it don't hide or just run away and avoid it.

Therapists etc say fighting it is the only way...but because I fought it and faced it..all I can see and since that moment all I can feel is guilt.

That I was acting on an urge, or I decided to snap and be unsafe,  take a risk etc.

So it's done me no good atall. 

And this moment happened so long ago that it's blown up to a point where I don't know what is real. 

The thing that sticks and doesn't let me go is the thought of me just acting out or being so close and for once not being careful around my fear.

[PolarBear]

You're back to trying to figure it out. This is where you get stuck, every time. You keep going back to it. And that right there is your problem.

It doesn't matter if OCD was in play or not at that moment. It just doesn't matter. Because it's sll based on an irrational fear. It doesn't matter if you said the words. Go ahead and say them. Out loud. 

Nothing we say is going to satisfy you and stop you from asking again and again. Only you can stop that.

[ocdsufferer85]

But to say ocd isn't in play would make it worse

[Handy]

"Whoever makes it a rule to test action by thought, thought by action,
cannot falter, and if he does, will soon find his way back to the right
road." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[malina]

I think there is a difference between testing yourself and exposure as part of therapy. Testing is a compulsion and, ultimately, will make you feel worse as all compulsions do. When you are testing, you are doing something on the premise that you want to see what will happen or how you will feel. When you do it as part of treatment, you are suspending the belief that anything will happen and doing the action to show yourself that, actually, nothing dangerous will happen at all. Saying the sentence as part of treatment will not make you worse. 

[ocdsufferer85]

1 hour ago, malina said:

I think there is a difference between testing yourself and exposure as part of therapy. Testing is a compulsion and, ultimately, will make you feel worse as all compulsions do. When you are testing, you are doing something on the premise that you want to see what will happen or how you will feel. When you do it as part of treatment, you are suspending the belief that anything will happen and doing the action to show yourself that, actually, nothing dangerous will happen at all. Saying the sentence as part of treatment will not make you worse. 

Testing is a compulsion, but how? 

I feel like I faced it.

I didn't flight....I chose to fight.

For literally a moment or two.

It all comes down to me feeling like this -

My worst fear is not knowing if I spoke this sentence under my breath.

Here's how I felt -

Relaxed and confident that I wouldn't speak that line outloud because I had the control 

I was seeing IF it's even POSSIBLE to speak whilst breathing... so I 'tested' it without thinking 

I dismissed it as silly

I had thoughts saying "you could let it out" "imagine If you spoke now" and it felt like a slight unwanted urge...not an urge to do it but this feeling like something was pushing me to mess up...I felt on edge like I was waiting for things to go wrong like they always do. But this was very brief and I dismissed it and remained strong. I didn't run. I said nah. Ocd you won't fool me.

Then I found myself a second time or whatever mouthing or moving my mouth...once I realised it made a slight noise I snapped out of it in panic 

And now I feel like I acted on an urge...I got too confident that I wouldn't ever speak or not know if I spoke...and I ended up feeling like I'd got close, I almost messed up. I don't know what I was trying to prove.

Then it tricked me in the end when I tried to walk away

[malina]

22 minutes ago, ocdsufferer85 said:

Testing is a compulsion, but how? 

I feel like I faced it.

I didn't flight....I chose to fight.

For literally a moment or two.

It all comes down to me feeling like this -

My worst fear is not knowing if I spoke this sentence under my breath.

Here's how I felt -

Relaxed and confident that I wouldn't speak that line outloud because I had the control 

I was seeing IF it's even POSSIBLE to speak whilst breathing... so I 'tested' it without thinking 

I dismissed it as silly

I had thoughts saying "you could let it out" "imagine If you spoke now" and it felt like a slight unwanted urge...not an urge to do it but this feeling like something was pushing me to mess up...I felt on edge like I was waiting for things to go wrong like they always do. But this was very brief and I dismissed it and remained strong. I didn't run. I said nah. Ocd you won't fool me.

Then I found myself a second time or whatever mouthing or moving my mouth...once I realised it made a slight noise I snapped out of it in panic 

And now I feel like I acted on an urge...I got too confident that I wouldn't ever speak or not know if I spoke...and I ended up feeling like I'd got close, I almost messed up. I don't know what I was trying to prove.

Then it tricked me in the end when I tried to walk away

Well you said it yourself, you were testing if it’s even possible. This is a compulsion - I feel strong, am I strong enough to resist saying it? Then of course you will end up saying it, because you are actively trying to see if you can resist saying it. That is how OCD works.

With ERP the logic is that saying is doesn’t even matter and you keep on saying it until it stops bothering you. 

What you did that day was a compulsion not an exposure. So this is no reason not to follow your therapy because it’s not the same thing.

[ocdsufferer85]

But it was because I knew I wouldn't say it...I didn't want to.

Still I tested myself to see if I could and don't know why.

For that I only feel guilt.

I feel like I acted on my urge and I am a bad person.

I didn't say it or plan to, but the fact I felt like I could or that I tested myself makes me sick.

And then eventually when I wasn't testing myself ocd tricked me into saying you just breathed out...it must have come out 

[malina]

12 minutes ago, ocdsufferer85 said:

But it was because I knew I wouldn't say it...I didn't want to.

Still I tested myself to see if I could and don't know why.

For that I only feel guilt.

I feel like I acted on my urge and I am a bad person.

I didn't say it or plan to, but the fact I felt like I could or that I tested myself makes me sick.

And then eventually when I wasn't testing myself ocd tricked me into saying you just breathed out...it must have come out 

But this is exactly how OCD works. Whenever you do compulsions, it makes things worse. This is a test that you are going to fail. There is nothing to feel guilty about, it’s an ILLNESS. All you can do is work on getting better 

[ocdsufferer85]

See I have never been able to see that this part is ocd.

It's so awful it's so confusing that you believe anything it says!

Slight bit of peace and I have new doubts...it always says it's my fault and I am guilty.

I thought I could always beat it somehow and then that day I felt like my world crumbled and I haven't been able to press play on life since.

A few moments of being fooled by the illness turned into 8 years + 

It's changed SO much too. To a very detailed account...of a few minutes of my life.

I honestly didn't set out to be bad, or to fail. It just took me down as soon as it had the chance.

Thanks for the info.

How do I ignore it on the bad days?

[PolarBear]

If OCD wasn't in play at that moment, it doesn't matter. Not at all. As I have repeatedly told you, this is based on an irrational fear. Only you think saying these words is terribly bad. No one else does. And therein is the root of your problem.

[dksea]

10 hours ago, ocdsufferer85 said:

My worst fear is not knowing if I spoke this sentence under my breath.

So what if you did?  Why would speaking a sentence, under your breath or otherwise be so unbelievably awful as to be worth all this time and effort that is making you miserable?  A non-OCD sufferer would long ago have forgotten saying anything, if it even bothered them at all in the first place.
 

10 hours ago, ocdsufferer85 said:

I was seeing IF it's even POSSIBLE to speak whilst breathing

So what if it is?  Lets say you can't do it.  Are you 100% sure you were breathing exactly when you think you might have said what you fear you said?  If you can't remember whether you said something, why do you think you'd remember if you were breathing?  You are setting up meaningless tests to give you reassurance about an anxiety that itself is only meaningful because you make it meaningful, because you decide to give it attention.  You no doubt feel like you MUST give it attention, but the reality is you don't have to.  You DO have a choice, you can leave this question alone and move on with your life, it absolutely does not need to be answered.
 

10 hours ago, ocdsufferer85 said:

And now I feel like I acted on an urge...I got too confident that I wouldn't ever speak or not know if I spoke...and I ended up feeling like I'd got close, I almost messed up. I don't know what I was trying to prove.

People have unconscious habits they engage in all the time.  My sister-in-law whistles while she is doing other things.  Doesn't even notice she is doing it unless one of us points it out.  Some people bite their nails, others pick at their skin, still other people move their mouths while reading.  These are harmless, meaningless things.  So your mouth moved while you weren't paying attention?  Totally normal, totally meaningless.
 

9 hours ago, ocdsufferer85 said:

It's so awful it's so confusing that you believe anything it says!

Yes it is awful, but you can choose to change that, you can choose to stop believing what it says.  You can make the effort to change how you respond to OCD intrusive thoughts.  You don't have to play its game.
 

9 hours ago, ocdsufferer85 said:

Slight bit of peace and I have new doubts...it always says it's my fault and I am guilty.

I thought I could always beat it somehow and then that day I felt like my world crumbled and I haven't been able to press play on life since.

A few moments of being fooled by the illness turned into 8 years + 

So why not take your life back?  Why not make the choice to stop marching to OCD's beat?  You feel stuck because you have accepted what OCD is telling you, that the anxiety you feel means you have to do what it says.  But you don't!  Anxiety doesn't mean OCD is right!  

Imagine you wake up one day to find yourself trapped in a room.  On one side of the room is a door.  You start to walk towards the door but you hear a voice, "if you open that door a tiger will eat you".  You think to yourself "really? a tiger? that seems unlikely" so you keep walking towards the door, as you do you start to hear the sounds of a tiger, maybe you even smell a tiger.  So you believe the voice and back away from the door.  Every so often you decide to try again, maybe the tiger is gone.  Sometimes you get closer to the door than others, but every time you hear the noise, you smell the smell.  One day another voice pipes in, "The first voice is a liar, the tiger is fake, you can walk through the door".  And then another voice says the same.  Soon many voices have told you, the first voice is a liar.  In fact you KNOW its a liar, you've come to realize you've heard that voice before and it was always lying.  So you know the voice is lying, but you have gotten so used to being afraid of the door that you still feel anxiety and fear when you try and walk through it.  And there is, of course, a possibility that the tiger is real, you won't know for sure until you open the door.  But in the meantime you remain stuck in this room, trapped, unable to live your life.  You are a prisoner.  All you need to do to escape is to walk through the door.  The fear is still there, the sounds and smells are still there, you can't change that, but you can choose to walk through the door and in to freedom.  YES it will cause anxiety, but you can live with anxiety, the anxiety will fade, especially after you make it through the door.  Why not take the chance and open the door?  Thats what recovery from OCD is, its walking through the door and choosing to move forward even though you still feel anxiety.  Unfortunately its not quite so quick as simply going through a door, it will take some time to go from where you are to where you want to be, but you have to start somewhere.  You don't climb a mountain with the first step, or even the second step, but in order to get to the top you DO have to take those first few steps.

Or you can remain stuck in the room, wondering about what you are going to do, wishing there was another way out, regretting the life you are missing.  And ignoring that there is already a way out, in fact the ONLY way out.  Open the door.  Walk through.  Its worth it.

[ocdsufferer85]

Thank you for the response and the tiger explanation is so good!

My problem is holding on to guilt over not walking away from the fear. 

It's not that I wanted to speak, it was that I momentarily felt in charge of things instead of being tormented by ocd and instead of walking away with that sense of relief I decided to show ocd I was the boss

In a moment of confidence I decided no I'm not gonna run or be tricked, the thoughts are there but no, I won't listen.

But the more thoughts that came the more responses followed.

I felt like I could prove I was in control which I now hate myself for, why test if it's possible...why take that risk, because all its done is make me feel 10000% worse and that I tried to act on this unwanted urge.

I basically can't stand the fact that I faced it, because it caused doubt and in the end I feel wreckless evil and a failure. Any ruminations paint me as a bad person who must have 'snapped' or wanted to 'take a risk' and I don't understand. 

I didn't want to speak this thought and still dont. I just feel that being more relaxed and in a stronger state of mind... All its done is add fuel to ocds fire..."what kind of person would do that" "you are evil"

[ocdsufferer85]

I appreciate your reply, it's just hard to put it into practice every day. I will try and try and try. I am not ignoring your answers. I just feel as though I need to clarify things (another ocd problem) 

I want to be able to tell you that I felt this frozen almost slow motion awareness of what was happening...but it seems whatever I did I'd end up feeling awful, unless I held my mouth shut or taped it closed which isn't normal.

[dksea]

1 hour ago, ocdsufferer85 said:

I basically can't stand the fact that I faced it, because it caused doubt and in the end I feel wreckless evil and a failure.

I would say the problem is not that you faced OCD, its that your expectation was misplaced, that you thought/believed that doing so would mean the doubt wouldn't come back.  Unfortunately doubt is one of the key components of OCD, its not something we can get over so easily, but that doesn't mean you can't do it.

Compare it to training for a marathon.  If you were completely out of shape, if you had just been a couch potato (do they have that expression in the UK?) for years and years, turning yourself in to a runner isn't going to happen right away.  Maybe you go for your first jog on day 1.  You feel proud, you've accomplished something you hadn't done in awhile.  Then you wake up the next day.  The weathers not great, you are sore from running the day before, you just don't want to do it again.  The difference between someone who eventually runs a marathon and the person who doesn't isn't that the person who does LOVES feeling tired and sore and can't wait to go running that next day.  Its that they make the choice to stick with it, to run again even though they don't want to, even though its uncomfortable and hard, because they believe the goal in the end is worth it.  Gradually you go from lazy lump to an athlete.  But in order to get from point A to point Z you have to go from point A to point B first, then B to C, etc.

[PolarBear]

You are right, sufferer. One of your compulsions is coming here and trying to explain that one moment. I'm sure by now you have done so more than a hundred times. You keep saying it, over and over. Definitely a compulsion, which does no good. Part of it may be that you feel if you just described it better, we would understand better and give you some earth shattering answer that would make you feel better.

Alas, it will never be so. It's not going to happen. It doesn't matter how many times you explain it or how many different ways you explain it. 

We do understand what you are going through. You are fixated on a simple obsession based on an irrational fear. We also know that you have been stuck on this one obsession for years. It's awful. Truly awful. 

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by PolarBear

[ocdsufferer85]

Thank you, yes there is the term couch potato here in the UK haha!! That's me watching Netflix in the evenings! Thank you yeah I will keep it in mind. 

Polar I know. I hate that an illness can make me feel this bad about myself.

I don't believe there's much worse than feeling guilty and not being able to see its not your fault. That is the hardest part. The guilt. It's so real to me. It's like a big knot inside my brain and it won't unravel. The knot has got bigger and bigger and more tangled over the years.

Until it's reached a stage where I have to believe and be guilty for everything just incase its a real memory, when even at the time...the very next day or so I had to piece some kind of story together to explain it to the pyscologist because it was based on such a vague moment.

I felt I had to tell him the worst scenario JUST INCASE it was true.

It didn't make sense.

It was so half in the moment and not really present, it was such a mix of thoughts and doubts and it went from me being relaxed and somehow trying to prove to the voice in my head that I wouldn't lose control...that it became something that the voice could then say...but wait....are you sure you just did that right? Did you just mess up? 

It was like a slight thing that's grown over the years.

[ocdsufferer85]

I have realised today and on other occasions...

I can be in a confident normal state of mind and then ocd will rush in and twist it and I cannot work out what is the exact reason behind my every movement...

I can be challenged by a thought, react in a more normal way, then ocd takes thay and adds doubt and then I no longer know what the exact motives were.

That's what that day was like.

I was getting these thoughts, saying to them no. Not letting them really effect me, then eventually...they did. Because ocd was almost sat hiding ready to jump out and make me trip.

It created something from the most minor thing right infront of me. Its like I knew even then it was surely illogical...yet it grabbed hold of me in a way that made me eventually spike up.

And then lead me to blame myself.

[ocdsufferer85]

I remember one my birthday one year the same stuff reared it's head..because I didn't wanna spoil my birthday.

And within me arriving to the city where I was celebrating..the walk from the car to the place I was going ocd had created this horrible doubt over slight mouth movements and breath in the car on the way in.

[dksea]

On 06/06/2019 at 07:01, ocdsufferer85 said:

The knot has got bigger and bigger and more tangled over the years.

Ok, so its a big tangled knot, and you want to undo it.  First step?  Stop tying more knots.  Second step, start untying knots.  Its gonna still seem big and tangled for awhile, at first you might not notice much difference, but if you stick to it, eventually you'll untie the whole knot.  The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
 

13 hours ago, ocdsufferer85 said:

I can be in a confident normal state of mind and then ocd will rush in and twist it and I cannot work out what is the exact reason behind my every movement...

Yes, OCD tells us we HAVE to solve these things, we HAVE to figure out the exact reason. It absolutely feels like its a thing you must do.  But thats a lie.  You can not do it and be totally fine.  Its much like a smoker.  They feel the urge, often overwhelming, that they MUST have another cigarette, but of course we know they don't.  They genuinely FEEL like they have to, but if they don't?  It might be unpleasant for awhile, but eventually the cravings go away, eventually they become free.  Same with OCD.  The more you avoid giving in to the compulsions, the weaker it becomes.