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Ocd, paraphilias


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I know I have ocd for sure because I used to have other themes when I was younger but the last 15 years have focused on sexual themes, mainly to do with children. I’m so scared I have a paraphilia because sometimes I feel arousal. I’ve been worried the past few years that I’ve just been using ocd compulsions as a way to deny true feelings/fantasies - that I ritualise and go over the thoughts and analyse them and even if I feel arousal, tell myself it’s ocd or just because it’s something sexual I’m thinking of.

Stupidly I’ve found a research paper now today that says people that have ocd  that then develop a paraphilia may result to compulsive behaviours in an attempt to nullify their fantasties - an attempt to suppress unacceptable fantasies and desires. I’m so scared that this is what I’ve been doing and that my ocd thoughts are not really ocd but pedophilia paraphilia instead. I’m so so scared. It’s felt to me for a while that this is what I could be doing but now to see it on a research paper that this does actually happen to people has petrified me. I don’t know how much more of this I can take x

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The simple fact that you dislike what is happening is a sure sign this is OCD and not something else.

Now I can't stress this enough: you MUST stop Googling and researching paraphilias and OCD. That is absolutely a compulsion and it will only make your situation worse.

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I know it’s a compulsion and a bad idea but I’ve read it now and can’t stop thinking about it.

For years I’ve felt that really I could have a paraphilia and am just using my ocd compulsions (I know I definitely have ocd from past obsessions) as a way to cover up, suppress fantasies and they’re not really thoughts - if I analyse the thoughts and go over and over them from every angle until it feels right and just say to myself they’re ocd then that’s what I believe for a while but it feels they could really be paraphilias. 

All the cbt I’ve had, all the books and internet pages I’ve read, peoples ocd seems so much more simple than mine. Mine feels so complex. I’ve had so many feelings when thinking of these thoughts which are rarely intrusive anymore. I’ve felt excitment and arousal, not physical often but mental. But am I feeling these feelings because it’s what im afraid of and my brain is playing tricks? I’m so confused and scared. 

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What you describe is typical of sexual theme OCD. 

End of story really. 

The route towards recovery from OCD needs us to first accept that we are, at least probably, suffering from OCD. 

The disorder will toss in doubt, lies, unwanted thoughts and feelings to try and keep us within its power. 

But by learning in CBT to see this, not believe or connect with it, and not carry out compulsions such as you are doing, we can follow the path to recovery. 

I liken it to the allegorical route, beset with obstacles, leading to the celestial city that Christian must overcome in John Bunyan's "The Pilgrim's Progress". 

But it is a route well-travelled, and a route that hordes of sufferers have taken successfully. 

So others can do so too. 

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Handy, you have said this before and we disagreed. 

Knowing how to treat OCD, given the benefit of an experienced therapist, may look easy, but actually going through the thinking and behavioural changes necessary to recover is really hard. 

Plenty of people only have OCD and no other significant mental disorder. 

But for those that do have other mental health issues as well, it is important to get these uncovered, and a treatment programme set up encompassing them too. 

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55 minutes ago, Handy said:

Few people just have ocd & those that do are an easy fix. Maybe you have other things going on?  See a competent psychiatrist. 

Handy, your statrment here that OCD alone is easy to fix is simply not true. 

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56 minutes ago, Handy said:

Few people just have ocd & those that do are an easy fix.

Utter garbage, there is no easy fix for OCD.  Trust me, I wish there was.  Telling people its an easy fix and suggesting they have "other problems' is harmful to them.  Stop posting such  nonsense.

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11 hours ago, rachel23 said:

 peoples ocd seems so much more simple than mine. Mine feels so complex. 

A standard OCD conceit - the disorder's, not yours. It's a variation on 'my OCD being more painful than others'. 

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5 hours ago, Handy said:

Few people just have ocd & those that do are an easy fix. Maybe you have other things going on?  See a competent psychiatrist. 

Clueless and idiotic, as always. Seeing the word 'competent' cited here, oh, the irony. 

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12 hours ago, rachel23 said:

For years I’ve felt that really I could have a paraphilia and am just using my ocd compulsions (I know I definitely have ocd from past obsessions) as a way to cover up, suppress fantasies and they’re not really thoughts - if I analyse the thoughts and go over and over them from every angle until it feels right and just say to myself they’re ocd then that’s what I believe for a while but it feels they could really be paraphilias. 

This is an incredibly common reaction to OCD, we see it all the time in the forums.  Every OCD sufferer believes their fear might be real, if they didn't there wouldn't be a problem.  This is the core of OCD, the feeling of doubt.  You need to take a leap of faith that this is OCD too, because if you wait until you are sure, you'll almost certainly be waiting forever.  
 

12 hours ago, rachel23 said:

All the cbt I’ve had, all the books and internet pages I’ve read, peoples ocd seems so much more simple than mine. Mine feels so complex.

Sure other peoples OCD seem simpler than yours, you are living with yours all the time, everyone else is just words on a page, its just a story, you process it differently than you do your own experiences.  Its the difference between training for the Olympics and watching a movie about someone else training for the Olympics, you only ever get the highlights, you see the beginning/middle/end in quick succession.  Over the decades since OCD has been formally diagnosed and since CBT treatment has been applied, millions of sufferers have used it to manage their OCD and lead better lives, odds are that yours is not the most complex case out there, the one in a million thats at the top of the heap (if there is even one that out ranks all others).  The chances are that yours is mostly in the middle with the majority of everyone else.  What we know is that CBT is highly effective, that if you put in the work its probably going to result in significant improvement.  Comparing yourself to others isn't going to help in any way.  Whatever they are or aren't going through won't change what you are going through or what you need to get better.  Focus on what you can do for yourself, you deserve to feel better.

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7 hours ago, Handy said:

Few people just have ocd & those that do are an easy fix. Maybe you have other things going on?  See a competent psychiatrist. 

What do you mean by this Handy?  Maybe I (and the forum) is misunderstanding what you mean.

It's true that many people with OCD are co-morbid with other problems like depression or other anxiety problems, but it's not uncommon for people to suffer with just OCD.  In all cases, treating the OCD is still a challenge. 

Rachel may already have a competent therapist, we don't know that.  Also, as a general rule most of the time OCD treatment is likely to be carried out by a clinical psychologist rather than a psychiatrist.  Odd exception to the rule of course where a psychiatrist is CBT knowledgeable. 

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Hello Rachel, 

Sorry that you're struggling at the moment. 

20 hours ago, rachel23 said:

I’ve just been using ocd compulsions as a way to deny true feelings/fantasies - that I ritualise and go over the thoughts and analyse them and even if I feel arousal, tell myself it’s ocd or just because it’s something sexual I’m thinking of.

When I read your post it is reminiscent of other people's stories that I have read, I don't know if that helps you or not to know you're not alone.   Even people without this form of OCD have the same worries, that they are bad person and the OCD is just an excuse. 

 

20 hours ago, rachel23 said:

Stupidly I’ve found a research paper now today that says people that have ocd  that then develop a paraphilia may result to compulsive behaviours in an attempt to nullify their fantasties - an attempt to suppress unacceptable fantasies and desires. I’m so scared that this is what I’ve been doing and that my ocd thoughts are not really ocd but pedophilia paraphilia instead. I’m so so scared. It’s felt to me for a while that this is what I could be doing but now to see it on a research paper that this does actually happen to people has petrified me. I don’t know how much more of this I can take x

Try not to worry (I know as I type this how stupid that is, because you will be worrying) . But the fact is there are lots of research papers about OCD out there and lots I would personally rip up and say what utter tosh. Just because something is in a research paper doesn't make it fact.   What is also happening is that your OCD is making you doubt so the moment you come across a text which matches your doubts the OCD lit up in your brain and focussing on that and ignoring everything else.

I have not read the paper, but people with OCD will often 'test' their attraction by thinking certain thoughts to prove the OCD wrong, but all it does is create feelings that reinforces the OCD belief that their desire is genuine. I don't know if the paper makes that point, it is somewhat standard OCD 101. 

Certainly from what I have read from your post, this is OCD at it's typically doubting best.

 

13 hours ago, rachel23 said:

All the cbt I’ve had, all the books and internet pages I’ve read, peoples ocd seems so much more simple than mine. Mine feels so complex.

If I had a pound for every time someone's said that... but actually you are right Rachel... for each of us, our OCD is unique and complex and in our heads will be more complicated than the person next to us on this forum.  That doesn't mean it's not just OCD at play and not somewhat simplistic to understand what's going on (with a good therapist). OCD is a combination of both simple and difficult to treat (which may be a previous users point).  When we understand OCD as a mechanism it is actually very simple, less simple is then to apply it to an individuals own experiences. But even when we have understood the mechanism, changing that mechanism to a non OCD response is not so simple and can take some work.

But books and internet pages...…   again there are lots out there, but a percentage are wrong, another percentage are unhelpful, the trick is finding the right resources that are recovery focussed and learning to dismiss the unhelpful.   For example there is a very well known and widely recommended OCD book written by an OCD specialist that I just find really negative in outlook, so that book is not for me.  I choose self-help books that are realistic but positive in outlook.

In terms of CBT, go again... I am and you could argue that I know a fair bit about OCD and have read all the books, heard all the talks etc, but sometimes we all need a little personalised help to get us over the hill and so I have referred myself to one of the specialist OCD clinics.  Is that an option for you Rachel?

Keep fighting, you're not alone :)

 

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13 hours ago, PolarBear said:

Handy, your statrment here that OCD alone is easy to fix is simply not true. 

Seems all I see on the forum are CBT & Medication, those are easy fixes. Whether someone uses them properly is another matter.

Comorbidity. In medicine, comorbidity is the presence of one or more additional conditions co-occurring with (that is, concomitant or concurrent with) a primary condition; in the countable sense of the term, a comorbidity (plural comorbidities) is each additional condition.

Some of the common comorbidities that overlap with OCD are depression and anxiety spectrum disorders like panic disorder, panic attacks, generalized anxiety disorder (GAD), eating disorders, body dysmorphic disorder (BDD) and features of perfectionism.

Plus, 'According to the most recent, large-scale community study of mental health in adults across the United States, 90% of the adults who reported OCD at some point in their lives also had at least one other comorbid condition, including anxiety, mood, AD/HD, oppositional-defiant, and substance use disorders.  A trained mental health professional can diagnose and provide appropriate treatment for these conditions as well as OCD.' http://beyondocd.org

'Recently, some authors proposed an OCD sub-classification based on comorbidity. An important issue in assessing comorbidity is the fact that the non-response to treatment often involves the presence of comorbid conditions. Non-responsive patients are more likely to meet criteria for comorbid axis I or axis II disorders and the presence of a specific comorbid condition could be a distinguishing feature in OCD, with influence on the treatment adequacy and outcome.'

'The prevalence of comorbid OCD and schizophrenia was estimated at 12.2% by the US National Institute for Mental Health Epidemiologic Catchment Area Study (Karno et al., 1988). Recent studies reported that approximately 8–26% of schizophrenic patients met the DSM-IV criteria for OCD (Eisen et al., 1997; Porto et al., 1997; Poyurovsky et al., 1999, 2001; Bermanzohn et al., 2000; Tibbo et al., 2000; de Haan et al., 2002; Nechmad et al., 2003; Ohta et al., 2003; Byerly et al., 2005)' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

'One third of the OCD patients in our sample were found to be depressed. Symptom severity on OCD symptoms at baseline did not differ between depressed and nondepressed OCD patients; on general anxiety symptoms, the comorbid group was more severely affected. Both depressed and nondepressed OCD patients responded well to treatment, as reflected in assessments for depressive, obsessive-compulsive, and general anxiety symptoms. However, comorbid depression had a negative effect on treatment: depressed OCD patients showed less improvement than nondepressed OCD patients on most scales.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So I'm staying with it.

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Much of what you wrote is right Handy,  but I am struggling to understand the relevance to the original post and Rachel's problems.  It's important when you post that you take into account what the original poster is actually saying, and tailor any replies to their post/problems.

Whilst I perhaps should follow my own rules and not go off topic, I would disagree with this part.

31 minutes ago, Handy said:

'Recently, some authors proposed an OCD sub-classification based on comorbidity. An important issue in assessing comorbidity is the fact that the non-response to treatment often involves the presence of comorbid conditions. Non-responsive patients are more likely to meet criteria for comorbid axis I or axis II disorders and the presence of a specific comorbid condition could be a distinguishing feature in OCD, with influence on the treatment adequacy and outcome.'

Non-responsive patients is not always because of co-morbidity (some cases it might be), but in my experience it is 90% of the time because of a poor therapeutic experience, a lack of OCD understanding and training in the treatment of OCD by the therapist.

But back on track, please ensure your posts are appropriate for the original poster please Handy. 

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I have clicked on the references but unable to download the papers. Apart from one from the beyondocd.

Your post Handy reads as if you have simply quoted an abstract of an article. Or rather part of an abstract.

There are thousands of articles on OCD and mental health issues. 

 I suggest you take one article that you have listed and explain it to us. Unless you can do this your post is infantile. A poor rhetorical attempt for people to accept your assertions.

You did this silly rhetorical trick in an earlier post  outlining regions of the brain without indicating their relevance to OCD.

Outline one article with its methodology, statistical analysis and how it relates to previous research then people can perhaps give credence to your bizarre rhetoric.

Edited by Angst
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And If there is to be such a thing, could it be posted on a new, separate, topic thread, not on Rachel's or another sufferer’s topic thread? 

Edited by taurean
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11 hours ago, Handy said:

Seems all I see on the forum are CBT & Medication, those are easy fixes.

There is nothing easy about CBT, stop trivializing the work people put in to their recovery by calling CBT easy.  If these fixes were easy for YOU, great.  But the evidence suggests that for the vast majority of people, recovery from OCD takes work, often a lot of work.  Suggesting that these are easy fixes is disrespectful and unhelpful.

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On 25/06/2019 at 01:47, Handy said:

Few people just have ocd & those that do are an easy fix. Maybe you have other things going on?  See a competent psychiatrist. 

Hi Handy, 

You say OCD is easy to fix? This makes me feel inadequate as a sufferer because I have been doing CBT for some time now and constantly working hard to change things and i can honestly say that not one part of it as been easy for me and I've still got battles to face. I presume that you must be an ex sufferer? Is this correct ? If so could you please share how you overcome your OCD and what helped you, by simply quoting references does not help anyone it only causes confusion into why they cannot treat their own OCD easily and leaves them feeling very inadequate as a person. 

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On 25/06/2019 at 01:47, Handy said:

Few people just have ocd & those that do are an easy fix. Maybe you have other things going on?  See a competent psychiatrist. 

Could you please explain to us why it is easy to fix and how? Tell us in your own words so we can all see why so many of us are going wrong and what we can do to change this.

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On 25/06/2019 at 16:15, Handy said:

Seems all I see on the forum are CBT & Medication, those are easy fixes. Whether someone uses them properly is another matter.

I wouldn't say that either are an easy fix? My experience of SSRI's has been to only take the edge off of symptoms, and with regards to CBT, I think severity is a huge factor! Having progressed, I can almost see a correlation with the two, so perhaps you are talking about OCD in its mildest form there, Handy. 

 

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On 25/06/2019 at 09:43, Ashley said:

have not read the paper, but people with OCD will often 'test' their attraction by thinking certain thoughts to prove the OCD wrong, but all it does is create feelings that reinforces the OCD belief that their desire is genuine. I don't know if the paper makes that point, it is somewhat standard OCD 101. 

 

Thank you for all your responses. The paper doesn’t reference this. It states that if people have ocd then if they develop a paraphilia, they can use ocd compulsions as a way to cancel out, Supress their fantasies. This has scared me so much.i often test how I feel about a thought because I have felt aroused in the past about it, as in emotionally aroused. But then I question whether the arousal is true because I don’t feel that way when I’m well and free of ocd, I’m not enjoying thinking about the thoughts (but then I do feel excitment/arousal) at some point, I don’t masturbate about these thoughts. But then I start to think , would I masturbate about them if I didn’t feel bad about them? Then I wonder if it’s all just my brain playing tricks on me, convincing me that I find them arousing because I don’t want to. It’s all just really really exhausting and I wish I was free of this dreadful problem I have.

 

On 25/06/2019 at 09:43, Ashley said:

I have referred myself to one of the specialist OCD clinics.  Is that an option for you Rachel?

 

What do you mean Ashley? What are these specialist ocd clinics? I’m seeing an experience therapist in ocd and have had previous treatment with ocd specialist. 

Just feeling really down and low with treatment and reading ocd books. I’m just getting worse, no better. Im still carrying out so many compulsions but I’m just so scared to give them up but not because I think anything bad is going to happen or anything is going to change. I’m so confused and my mind is just so mixed up. I’m so scared about who I am. 

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On 24/06/2019 at 20:43, taurean said:

The disorder will toss in doubt, lies, unwanted thoughts and feelings to try and keep us within its power. 

But by learning in CBT to see this, not believe or connect with it, and not carry out compulsions such as you are doing, we can follow the path to recovery. 

 

Thank you for your response. Why does it have to be so hard? It’s like living though a nightmare. I’ve recovered before and been nearly completely free of ocd but this time feels worse and scarier and I just can’t seem to stop doing compulsions that I know I’m not supposed to do. I don’t even know why I’m doing them, I’m not trying to prevent anything bad from happening, i don’t even know what the reason is to why I’m doing them. To feel better in the short term I guess but when I get unwanted feeling from analysing the thoughts, I feel even worse. I just wish I could magic this away, such a cruel and unfair thing to have to go through. Sorry for being negative . 

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Sufferers do compulsions for two reasons: to prevent a bad thing from happening or to relieve the distress caused by obsessions.

I suspect one of your big compulsions is checking. Some people call it testing. You set up a thought or situation in your mind then check what your reaction is. Deep down you likely hope your reaction is negative, which would give you reassurance that you are not what you fear. That in turn would make your anxiety go down and make you feel better. See?

Two problems with this. First, you aren't really in control over your emotions and physical sensations. You might wish to react a certain way but your mind can decide something else. It is not confirmation that you are anything. Second, because you have OCD, no amount of checking is enough. It doesn't matter what the check reveals... OCD will require you to check again and again.

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