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4 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

She keeps saying I should do CBT etc but all I want is for her to say I'm sorry, it's all OK, you don't need to worry. 

She is right GBG. why do you think we all shout about CBT from the rooftops? Julie wanted me to go and get help originally and I did so. Our partners are stakeholders in our lives, we need to listen to them. 

The cynic in you needs to go take a holiday :) Just to add, CBT is all about sharing everything, totally honestly, with the therapist.That is amazingly cathartic in itself. Then helping them map your individual problems, explaining what is going on, devise the homework strategies, keep you going on that.

They are not judgemental,are required of course to maintain client confidentiality, and when the course finishes we aren't magically, necessarily, then and there cured - because it takes time working the system. We carry on working it and the improvements should come. 

Ashley may know of someone in your part of the world. Whoever, it needs to be someone experienced in OCD, not just saying they are. And the main OCD-UK website gives guidance on how to find and choose one. 

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1 hour ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I'm not on the waiting list for CBT I'm more thinking about going private. I am very cynical about the whole thing I must be honest. 

I am feeling a bit rubbish again today, going over and over the argument. I think some of it is ocd but a lot of it is black and white thinking. I don't know how to let go of it I just wish it had never happened. I feel like I need some kind of resolution to it but if I ever bring it up it just leads to more arguing. To me it feels very unfinished. How do you just leave something which still feels so massive? Is that not just suppressing things? 

I know I need to be more accepting of things being imperfect. 

Thanks so much for the help and advice x 

Hi gbg, 

I'm glad you managed to read between the lines and understood what I was trying to say, after re reading it I didn't explain things very well at all possibly because I've only had a couple of hours sleep because I've been at hospital all night. I will try to explain it better later when I'm back home again.

I know you say you feel very cynical regarding CBT but try not to dismiss it altogether it is the best thing I have ever done and it does work, I know I'm having a set back at mo but I'm still in a much better place than before I had it.

I'm so sorry to hear your not feeling good today and this is really playing on your mind. The problem is even if you did bring it up again with your other half you probably still wouldnt get the resolution you want, it just usually causes another upset and another argument and then more worry. We have to remember that quite often in the heat of an argument people can behave and say things out of the ordinary and quite often things they didn't mean at all. In my experience arguments are usually left unfinished unless one backs down and apologies for what was said or the way they reacted it's very rare that it's resolved, usually it's awkward silences and then usually hours later you slowly start talking again and you just go back to normal. Often things are said in the heat of the moment. As one would say least said soonest mended and it's often true.

Hope this helps:)

 

 

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1 minute ago, lostinme said:

Hi gbg, 

I'm glad you managed to read between the lines and understood what I was trying to say, after re reading it I didn't explain things very well at all possibly because I've only had a couple of hours sleep because I've been at hospital all night. I will try to explain it better later when I'm back home again.

I know you say you feel very cynical regarding CBT but try not to dismiss it altogether it is the best thing I have ever done and it does work, I know I'm having a set back at mo but I'm still in a much better place than before I had it.

I'm so sorry to hear your not feeling good today and this is really playing on your mind. The problem is even if you did bring it up again with your other half you probably still wouldnt get the resolution you want, it just usually causes another upset and another argument and then more worry. We have to remember that quite often in the heat of an argument people can behave and say things out of the ordinary and quite often things they didn't mean at all. In my experience arguments are usually left unfinished unless one backs down and apologies for what was said or the way they reacted it's very rare that it's resolved, usually it's awkward silences and then usually hours later you slowly start talking again and you just go back to normal. Often things are said in the heat of the moment. As one would say least said soonest mended and it's often true.

Hope this helps:)

 

 

Thanks lost I know what you say makes a lot of sense x

Sorry I didn't mean I am cynical about CBT - I am a huge believer in it - I guess what I mean is I am cynical about therapists, mainly because I had a really really useless experience last time I was referred. 

I will definitely take on board what you've said thank you, you've been a great help :) x 

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I think there is probably an element of what you might call ROCD going on here (Sorry I know we shouldn't use those terms) - in that I feel this need for our relationship to be perfect. This is definitely impacted by growing up as my mum claims she has never had a single argument or conflict with my dad ever and I have always thought relationships should be like that - perfect in all ways. Not realistic and not fair. 

Edited by gingerbreadgirl

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I don't think anyone has a perfect relationship GBG, they are things I think you have to work at over the years.

53 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

This is definitely impacted by growing up as my mum claims she has never had a single argument or conflict with my dad ever and I have always thought relationships should be like that - perfect in all ways. Not realistic and not fair. 

Do you believe your mum on this? (sorry I am not trying to be rude or speak out of turn about her tell me to back off I wont be offended)

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3 minutes ago, Avo said:

I don't think anyone has a perfect relationship GBG, they are things I think you have to work at over the years.

Do you believe your mum on this? (sorry I am not trying to be rude or speak out of turn about her tell me to back off I wont be offended)

Good question. I think they are really happy yes and I've never heard them argue. But how much of this is due to my dad just going along with things I don't know. 

Edited by gingerbreadgirl

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I think the same GBG, it sounds like your Dad must have gone along with things to enable this to happen. He surely must have had times when he had a different opinion or viewpoint but maybe didn't air his views?

I am not disputing that they are happy but just trying to say that I feel its possible to be happy in your relationship despite arguments from time to time. I think there is more than one way to work at a relationship, no way is right or wrong its a case of how the 2 personalities relate. 

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10 minutes ago, Avo said:

I think the same GBG, it sounds like your Dad must have gone along with things to enable this to happen. He surely must have had times when he had a different opinion or viewpoint but maybe didn't air his views?

I am not disputing that they are happy but just trying to say that I feel its possible to be happy in your relationship despite arguments from time to time. I think there is more than one way to work at a relationship, no way is right or wrong its a case of how the 2 personalities relate. 

Thanks avo I really appreciate your time and helpful advice :) hope you're doing OK x 

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No worries GBG, Although from a slightly different angle I have had relationship worries myself so I know how you feel. I know how distressing it can be. you can get better though - that's the good news. :)

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33 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Good question. I think they are really happy yes and I've never heard them argue. But how much of this is due to my dad just going along with things I don't know. 

That's probably about the strength of it, and how my folks were - they both "went along with it" if it mattered to the other, so few if any arguments. 

How do Julie and I deal with this? In much the same way, with the addition of a "high controversiality" rule. If one of us invokes this, the matter is deferred while we both reconsider (this works a treat). 

But back to the point. Perfectionism is just another theme of OCD, and the same CBT system will work for that theme too - if CBT wants to make a rule, don't play along with it - break it! 

But it takes time to overcome any theme, because the power of the OCD to be convincing is so high. 

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Thanks Roy I do think prefectionism is a big problem of mine when it comes to things like this. I've got a cbt workbook I might dig out. 

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4 hours ago, taurean said:

if CBT wants to make a rule, don't play along with it - break it! 

 

Of course, this should have read "if OCD wants to make a rule! 

(You just can't get the staff these days 😉

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2 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Thanks Roy I do think prefectionism is a big problem of mine when it comes to things like this. I've got a cbt workbook I might dig out. 

I like CBT workbooks - they teach you the theory then give you the homework to practice doing it, so it's a yes from me :thumbup:

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9 hours ago, taurean said:

That's nicely put lost. 

It's difficult to get work, period, at the moment. And it was difficult when I started way back in 1971 (Dad got me my first job by pulling a few strings) and when Julie last looked 25 years ago - she made 50 applications, and that only for part-time work, before she got a job. 

There is a guy featured on the news with five degrees and can't get a job right now. 

So don't you go letting that nasty black and white thinking go getting you down. 

Best way to get work? Through someone you know, or at a local charity shop for voluntary. Or putting it about locally that you are looking. Or online, like I do here, giving my time free to help others. 

We can't all be what we might like to be, emulate others. 

But we can be a very fine lostinme, taurean, gingerbreadgirl - and that's what really matters. 

Learning what to do and applying it, and refusing to listen to OCD or one or more of those 15 nasty categorised negative thinking distortions (I had four but they don't bother me now) is the goal. 

Both of you are excellent human beings, and not what OCD or those pesky distortions says, and - remember - your true character traits will always remain intact. Learning that in CBT was an absolute gamechanger and light bulb 💡 moment for me. 

Have a good weekend both. 

Roy :king:

 

Thank you Roy, you have some very wise words. I didn't explain very well to be honest it doesn't really say what I was trying to say. But basically how quickly positive thinking can soon escalate into a downward spiral of black and white thinking, I'm useless, I'm a bad person, I must have done something wrong, people don't like me etc etc the list can go on. And also how we have to live with uncertainty with lots of everyday things. I'm very tired tonight but hopefully I can explain a little better tomorrow:)

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8 hours ago, Avo said:

Sorry your confidence has crumbled so much lost - jobs are hard to come by, even voluntary ones. The world of work unpaid or paid is a tough one. I do a pretty ordinary Job where you don't need qualifications as such - just a decent work ethic. There are people at my work with qualifications galore yet they are struggling to get anything near their level of expertise and are saddled with a lot of student debt on a wage way below what they initially thought they would be earning given their level of education. I think that is quite typical across the country. 

The Jobs market is tough and Job hunting is stressful and hurtful I have had plenty of knock backs you just have to try and not take it personally I am sure it was their loss for not taking you on. 

Bless you Avo thank you for your kind words. I was trying to explain to gbg how easy things can escalate ina downward spiral but I didn't explain very well at all :blush: going to try again tomorrow in a more understandable approach, it's not that my English is rubbish I'm just tired :lol:

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7 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Thanks lost I know what you say makes a lot of sense x

Sorry I didn't mean I am cynical about CBT - I am a huge believer in it - I guess what I mean is I am cynical about therapists, mainly because I had a really really useless experience last time I was referred. 

I will definitely take on board what you've said thank you, you've been a great help :) x 

Oh I see what you mean now, please try not to let this over ride your judgement because of a bad experience, there are some good CBT specialists out there and you will probably be pleasantly surprised. Hopefully Ashley could help via you in the right direction :yes: xx

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5 hours ago, lostinme said:

Thank you Roy, you have some very wise words. I didn't explain very well to be honest it doesn't really say what I was trying to say. But basically how quickly positive thinking can soon escalate into a downward spiral of black and white thinking, I'm useless, I'm a bad person, I must have done something wrong, people don't like me etc etc the list can go on. And also how we have to live with uncertainty with lots of everyday things. I'm very tired tonight but hopefully I can explain a little better tomorrow:)

Hi lost. 

I am doing my owl 🦉 thing, when I wake up in the middle of the night 🌃 feeling wide awake :)

But it's no bad thing, as the phone is by the bed and I can play catch up. 

Think I get what you mean now, and I reckon tossed into the mix is also the cognitive distortion of mind-reading, where we think others have a negative view of us when there is really little or no real evidence to that effect. 

Anyway, I previously wrote a piece I think pointing out that OCD loves to team up with these cognitive distortions to drag us back down the rabbit hole. 

In my own case, this sink into the "Slough of Despond" (extract from John Bunyan's "The Pilgrim's Progress) could escalate so quickly, rather like you describe, that I likened it to the Snakes and Ladders board game, with me continuing to slide down snakes without being able to reach out and hold onto a ladder, and manage to climb up it again. 

I needed a means of breaking my fall - and I found it with a combination of CBT, The Four Steps (step 3 - refocus) and lastly slipping into mindfulness. 

The CBT reminded me of how the OCD element worked, and how to challenge that. 

With the black and white, (and mind-reading in your case), negative cognitive thinking distortions I learned from CBT to spot them, and challenge them by rationalising my thinking. 

From working through this process, I was then able to apply refocus - in a way suggested to me by our dear forum friend Snowbear. 

She told me not to engage with the initial issue which would normally lead to the snakes and ladders scenario. By learning to stop my thinking right there and, gently but firmly refocusing away, I was able to nip the snakes and ladders in the bud before it started.

 Then I could use the mindfulness. This needed a lot of previous practice to learn how to do this - but essentially I learned to slip into mindfulness from the distraction, because my thinking had been knocked out of the active "doing" part of the brain - where we do all our obsessing and compulsing - so I was able to gently ease it into the benign, just "being", part of the brain where we simply operate in the present, in the moment, with a clear, calm mind. Mindfulness. 

This has continued to work very nicely for me for over two years now - so I truly know it can do this. 

I hope this helps you lost, GBG and others reading the thread who can identify with this problem. 

All the best, 

Roy :king:

 

Edited by taurean

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Thank you very much everyone for your kind words and really helpful advice, as always I really appreciate it. Lots to think about and digest here xx

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9 hours ago, taurean said:

Hi lost. 

I am doing my owl 🦉 thing, when I wake up in the middle of the night 🌃 feeling wide awake :)

But it's no bad thing, as the phone is by the bed and I can play catch up. 

Think I get what you mean now, and I reckon tossed into the mix is also the cognitive distortion of mind-reading, where we think others have a negative view of us when there is really little or no real evidence to that effect. 

Anyway, I previously wrote a piece I think pointing out that OCD loves to team up with these cognitive distortions to drag us back down the rabbit hole. 

In my own case, this sink into the "Slough of Despond" (extract from John Bunyan's "The Pilgrim's Progress) could escalate so quickly, rather like you describe, that I likened it to the Snakes and Ladders board game, with me continuing to slide down snakes without being able to reach out and hold onto a ladder, and manage to climb up it again. 

I needed a means of breaking my fall - and I found it with a combination of CBT, The Four Steps (step 3 - refocus) and lastly slipping into mindfulness. 

The CBT reminded me of how the OCD element worked, and how to challenge that. 

With the black and white, (and mind-reading in your case), negative cognitive thinking distortions I learned from CBT to spot them, and challenge them by rationalising my thinking. 

From working through this process, I was then able to apply refocus - in a way suggested to me by our dear forum friend Snowbear. 

She told me not to engage with the initial issue which would normally lead to the snakes and ladders scenario. By learning to stop my thinking right there and, gently but firmly refocusing away, I was able to nip the snakes and ladders in the bud before it started.

 Then I could use the mindfulness. This needed a lot of previous practice to learn how to do this - but essentially I learned to slip into mindfulness from the distraction, because my thinking had been knocked out of the active "doing" part of the brain - where we do all our obsessing and compulsing - so I was able to gently ease it into the benign, just "being", part of the brain where we simply operate in the present, in the moment, with a clear, calm mind. Mindfulness. 

This has continued to work very nicely for me for over two years now - so I truly know it can do this. 

I hope this helps you lost, GBG and others reading the thread who can identify with this problem. 

All the best, 

Roy :king:

 

Wow Roy you was an early bird :ohmy: Thank you so much for sharing this with me and gbg hopefully it will be helpful to us both in our time of need :yes:

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On 05/07/2019 at 18:10, gingerbreadgirl said:

Thanks njb you're really kind and your advice is spot on thanks. Sorry to hear you're not doing too well. I hope you feel better soon x 

Hi gingerbread. Sorry would have replied sooner but wanted to say how sweet your reply was. Caught the tail end of the last post and hope you feel a bit brighter. Getting the just right outcome involving another person with free will has got to be tough. Mmmmmm, sounds like hard work without chucking in ocd and no wonder it feeds off this. It is ocd ocd ocd. X

njb

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So I am dusting myself off and doubling down on cbt. I MUST MUST MUST stop ruminating (thinking of getting this tattooed on my eyelids :D). I absolutely need to stop trying to figure this all out. It is absolutely no wonder I am still stuck when my brain all day long is whirring away trying to answer these questions about whether I am bad. 

So my resolution starting right now is to stop this, have a blanket zero tolerance approach, stop trying to figure any of it out, leave it all as doubtful and unresolved and uncertain and just get on with life as it's happening right now. 

Other people don't feel the need to answer these questions and I am no different. 

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:cheer::boxing::cheer:(This is supposed to say "yay, that's fighting talk, you can do this!" :-))

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That's fantastic gbg, you can do this :cheer:

It takes lots of practice but with time it becomes easier. I use to ruminate about something for days,weeks,months, over and over, eventually as I started to see it served no purpose only torment it slowly reduced to days, weeks and then to hours or days. Most times now if I get a thought I just shrug it off and I won't even entertain it.

Keep going you can do this:) x

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Thank you very much wren and lost x

Have literally already fallen flat on my face and done a huge bunch of compulsions. Why??!! But drawing a line under it and starting again. 

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Compulsions? No way Jose has to be the thinking. 

On must go those boxing gloves :boxing:and if necessary a few rounds with the urges to flatten them. 

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