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It's not like with one failure and then I give up. It's after a few times and it gets disheartening after a while. I really don't see an end. Even the short terms goals have just not been going great and I'm done at this point. It's like whatever. 

Edited by don't know
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It's normal to feel that way when things in life are not going well. Honestly, sometimes I've had moments where getting through the day or the week was just good enough. Life can have rough patches where things just don't work out, where you fail at things and have one bad thing after another. Then, very randomly it can pick up again. The key is to understand that, just because things are going badly, that doesn't mean they always will or that they will never get better. It also in no way says anything about you as a person. Things are bad now, you're going through a lot, stop being so hard on yourself. 

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20 hours ago, dksea said:

The first time I asked a girl out, she said no.  The second time I asked a girl out she said no too.
The first time I applied to teach in Japan, they said no.  
I applied to one of the top Universities in America (Stanford), they said no.
When I was most recently hunting for jobs I applied to dozens of positions that all said no.

Just because something didn't work the first time, didn't go the way you hoped it would, doesn't mean it will always be that way.

The third time I asked a girl out, she said yes.
The second time I applied to teach in Japan, they said yes.
Two of the universities I applied to said yes.
My current job said yes.

I could have given up after each initial failure, in most cases I could have given up after multiple failures (job hunting for example).  I have had multiple relationships, and given that I am presently single, those have all ended in failure, or at least failure to marry.  But that doesn't mean I've given up on marriage as a goal someday.  And I could have given up when I was faced with OCD, there were times where I wanted to.  There were times where I was sure that the miserableness I was feeling was going to be the way I felt for the rest of my life.  I couldn't see how it would get better again.  Yet, here I am.  It DID get better.  Not magically on its own, but with treatment.

I can't promise you the next therapist you see will be the one who you connect with and gets you on track for recovery from your problems.  But if you don't seek help then you almost certainly will remain stuck.  I can't promise you will be able to achieve all the goals you want in life.  But if you don't try then you'll definitely fail at least some of them.

It can be overwhelming to try and map out how you will get from where you are now to where you want to be in the end, it can seem impossible.  So instead of focusing on the big goal, may you can focus on small goals, short term goals that can move you at least slightly closer to your ultimate goal.  It might not seem like much at first, but it will add up.  Better that than remaining stuck right?

:goodpost:

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I don't know where to turn. I was watching a video to do with another theme of OCD. The therapist was talking about a lot of my fears such as the possibility of it all being true and the never knowing truly who you are/what you feel. It made things a lot worse to be honest (doesn't take much). I can't deal with the idea of all of this being a reality and then just feeling so low and like there is no real point to anything. But again, who cares? I don't at this point. 

 

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10 hours ago, don't know said:

I don't know where to turn. I was watching a video to do with another theme of OCD. The therapist was talking about a lot of my fears such as the possibility of it all being true and the never knowing truly who you are/what you feel. It made things a lot worse to be honest (doesn't take much). I can't deal with the idea of all of this being a reality and then just feeling so low and like there is no real point to anything. But again, who cares? I don't at this point. 

 

Well the point is to understand that all of the things we are afraid of some with some degree of possibility. Let's say that someone's big fear is that they will get sick. Well, the reality is that they could get sick. Yet, that person can't spend their life worrying about the possibility of getting sick. Like if you think about it, any of us could get sick and yet we take reasonable precautions when necessary and accept that we can't control everything, so we go through life with this uncertainty about our health, yet we don't focus on it every day. And if you do get sick, it isn't really a catastrophe either because you can always get treatment.

Most of our fears are within some realm of possibility. Yet these are the same types of threats that all people face and they don't spend their lives agonising over them. In fact, many things that other people are afraid of, you may not be concerned about. But why not, they are possible too after all, aren't they? So you're willing to accept the possibility of some things, but not others, why is that the case?

10 hours ago, don't know said:

I can't deal with the idea of all of this being a reality

Yet you spend every day thinking about how it is all reality and writing on this forum how it's all real and you don't have OCD, how you're doomed, how there is no hope. I mean, what is worse? accepting the possibility that something is not likely but may be true and moving on with your life or spending every single day trying to find certainty, agonising over the possibility and making your life worse?

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It's just routine. I tried to speak to my family about me feeling possibly depressed and they changed the subject. Fair enough; I don't look it, you wouldn't be able to tell. I even doubt that I'm depressed. 

I understand the example but I would say that ending up being attracted to family members and other stuff like that is worse than me getting sick. At least I could get better or deal with it (that sounds really insensitive and I really do apologise.) However, with this you're stuck with it. You think you're fine one day and then next day you feel like it's true; everything points to that conclusion. I'm miserable in general, I can't take another hit from life. I could deal with a health problem but I couldn't deal with any of these things actually happening. It would send me right over the edge.

It just grows; I'm now concerned I have a personality disorder. It seems true as well. Everything just keeps blowing up in my face. 

I'm just panicking because I don't want this to be true - but it probably is and I couldn't take the reality. How am I supposed to go seek help and then by the end 'it was all true.' I can't do it; even there being a possibility is too much for me to take. 

 

Edited by don't know
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On 30/07/2019 at 22:59, don't know said:

It's not like with one failure and then I give up. It's after a few times and it gets disheartening after a while. I really don't see an end.

I apologize, I didn't mean to imply that you were giving up after one or two times.  If my post came across that way, thats my fault for not being more clear.  My intended goal was to highlight that just because things didn't work out in the past, doesn't mean they will always stay that way.  Sometimes you have to try many times at something to finally get it right.  Sometimes you have to take a break, come back, and try again a little different way.  I know and appreciate that you had a bad experience with a therapist in the past, but overall CBT has proven to be effective.  Yes, your initial experience didn't work out, but that doesn't mean the therapy itself will NEVER work, just that either you or the therapist weren't a good match to make it happen that time.  
Yes, its hard to see an end to your suffering now, while you are in the middle of it.  And if you keep rejecting possible solutions its unlikely it will end. Thats why we are trying to convince you to change your mindset, to change your approach, to be open to different possibilities than what you previously decided to believe.  Right now the biggest obstacle to your recovery are the barriers you are putting in front of you.  Many of them are understandable, the nature of OCD makes you doubt, so its hard to decide to do something when you have to go against all that doubt.  If you suddenly lost your vision, you'd have to trust others to help you adjust, at least at first.  Well OCD makes us blind in many ways, and we are asking you to trust us and try something a little different that might help.  After all, what have you got to lose?  You already feel miserable, you already see no way of it getting better.  Doesn't that mean its worth taking a chance on something else that might work?  If it doesn't you aren't any worse off.  If it does, you aren't stuck, you'll be able to start seeing an end.

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10 hours ago, don't know said:

I'm just panicking because I don't want this to be true - but it probably is and I couldn't take the reality. How am I supposed to go seek help and then by the end 'it was all true.' I can't do it; even there being a possibility is too much for me to take. 

But what if you get help and its NOT true?  Then you can end all this suffering!  Right now you are unhappy, you are suffering, you say that you see no way out.  It doesn't matter whether its true or not right now because you are suffering as if it were already true, as if your worst fears were true.
 

10 hours ago, don't know said:

You think you're fine one day and then next day you feel like it's true; everything points to that conclusion.

Except everything DOESN'T point to that conclusion.  You are not seeing clearly, you are getting bad information, and your brain isn't helping.  That part is not your fault.  But you need to start trusting other people when we point out the alternate, and more probable explanations for what you are feeling and experiencing.
 

10 hours ago, don't know said:

I could deal with a health problem but I couldn't deal with any of these things actually happening.

Many OCD sufferers feel this way, they feel like their current fear is the worst possible thing and that any other fear would be easier to deal with.  I can tell you from experience, that whatever your current OCD fear is, that is the worst fear in the world.  That is the thing you then think is worse than any other possible fear.  Its the nature of the disease.

This thing you fear, attraction to family members, at one point you didn't feel it right?  Yet at that time it was still possible, so ask yourself, why were you able to live your life then, even when something awful like this was possible, but now you can't?  You could get cancer, thats possible.  You could be assault, thats possible.  You could be murdered, thats possible.  You could murder someone, thats possible.  There always have been, and always will be, bad things that can happen to you in your life.  Living a life free from risk is whats actually impossible.  

Right now you are trapped in a room.  That room is miserable.  Its hot, its humid, you never have enough food or water, you are always suffering.  In that room there is a door with a lock on one side of the wall.  That door leads out.  On the other side of the room are 100,000 doors with no locks (its a big room).  Behind 99,999 of those doors is a key that will let you open the other door and get out.  Behind 1 door is your worst fear being true.  You can open any door you want.

You are willing to stay in a horrible, torturous room based on an extremely low chance of your worst fear being true, rather than take a chance that you'll get the right key.  Heck lets make it more realistic.  You've found out that not all therapists are great, so lets say that 1 in 100 keys doesn't actually open the door out.  So now you've got 99.000 keys that let you out. 999 keys that don't, and 1 key that is your worst fear.  You could get every single wrong key and you'd STILL have an amazing chance of getting the right key compared to your worst fear.  Thats the reality you are looking at right now.  We want to help you, we are trying to help you, but you don't want to take a chance that you could get better.  Yes it would be hard, yes it would be scary, but we aren't asking you to do anything that we ourselves haven't done, we ourselves wouldn't do.  You are stronger than you think, you deserve to get better, and there ARE other answers than your worst fear, and those answers are MUCH more likely too.  I understand you are scared, But you can be stronger than your fear, you can make choices to get better.  I really hope you'll reconsider and start rethinking your approach.  Its not working and it won't.

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12 hours ago, don't know said:

I understand the example but I would say that ending up being attracted to family members and other stuff like that is worse than me getting sick. At least I could get better or deal with it (that sounds really insensitive and I really do apologise.) However, with this you're stuck with it. 

This was my point exactly, it's all subjective. Getting sick is not something that you fear, so you think you could get over it. Yet someone who is afraid of getting sick doesn't see it that way. They think "I can't deal with it, there is a chance I will die, I am stuck with it". For me personally, I have a lot of issues around harm and I feel the same way as you do about your problem. If I harm someone, I am stuck with that too, I can never undo physically causing harm to someone or killing someone. I personally find my problem is a million times worse than being attracted to a family member. If I was attracted to a family member, I think I'd be able to deal with that. Yet when I get these thoughts about harm, I don't feel in control. 

I'm not trying to put down your problem or to say that it is less significant, but do you see my point? It is all a matter of perspective. I think that with OCD, your fear is what you personally perceive to be the worst case scenario in life, the one thing that would completely change who you are and everything in your life. For everyone, that unique fear is the worst possible thing that they cannot accept. Yet if all these people have to learn to accept the possibility that their absolute worst outcome could be true and still continue to live happy lives, there is no reason that you can't do the same.

12 hours ago, don't know said:

It just grows; I'm now concerned I have a personality disorder. It seems true as well. Everything just keeps blowing up in my face. 

Why do you think you have a personality disorder? Like why would you believe that you have a personality disorder but not OCD? 

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You don't need to apologise at all! I'm sorry. 

Thing is I could write a very long list of reasons for it being true. These were the things that were just on the top of my head. 

-Don't get images as much anymore. It just feels real. I sometimes feel urges. 

-When I am hugged or someone touches me I feel like I'm aroused by it and I can feel their touch on me for the rest of the day; making me think I'm attracted to them .

-I have intense realistic dreams where I panic that I enjoyed the content. 

-I get anxious or panicky when people talk about not realising who they were and feel like that's me - because this is often the case. 

-I feel empty when thinking about the future 

-Reading online stories/websites makes me think that I relate there is no escaping from that 

-I get really intense feelings of arousal when I see certain things/hear words 

-certain words send like this bolt through me which makes me think if I connect with that word it must mean that I relate to it. 

-When I see something about letting yourself go and being in the moment my thoughts turn to 'trigger words' or myself admitting what I am, because people say that in the quiet moments you're brain speaks the true. The gut feeling also freaks me out like that too. 

-I'm scared that I am repressing myself and the subconscious freaks me out. 

-reading stories about denial and feeling like I relate to them. 

-being around my family makes me think I want to do these things. 

-if someone in my family compliments me and I feel happy it's evidence that I'm actually attracted to them. 

The other thing is that I read things about people not 'realising' their true selves until it happens. It's also described as something out of the blue or something didn't feel right and then that was the answer. It's always that I feel like that's me. It also feels like one day I'm going to tip myself over the edge and it will become reality or it was always a reality and I didn't realise. 

For the personality thing; I watched something and felt bad for them and then I thought 'is this me?' So now I'm scared that I have that. It's stupid 

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16 hours ago, don't know said:

You don't need to apologise at all! I'm sorry. 

Thing is I could write a very long list of reasons for it being true. These were the things that were just on the top of my head. 

-Don't get images as much anymore. It just feels real. I sometimes feel urges. 

-When I am hugged or someone touches me I feel like I'm aroused by it and I can feel their touch on me for the rest of the day; making me think I'm attracted to them .

-I have intense realistic dreams where I panic that I enjoyed the content. 

-I get anxious or panicky when people talk about not realising who they were and feel like that's me - because this is often the case. 

-I feel empty when thinking about the future 

-Reading online stories/websites makes me think that I relate there is no escaping from that 

-I get really intense feelings of arousal when I see certain things/hear words 

-certain words send like this bolt through me which makes me think if I connect with that word it must mean that I relate to it. 

-When I see something about letting yourself go and being in the moment my thoughts turn to 'trigger words' or myself admitting what I am, because people say that in the quiet moments you're brain speaks the true. The gut feeling also freaks me out like that too. 

-I'm scared that I am repressing myself and the subconscious freaks me out. 

-reading stories about denial and feeling like I relate to them. 

-being around my family makes me think I want to do these things. 

-if someone in my family compliments me and I feel happy it's evidence that I'm actually attracted to them. 

The other thing is that I read things about people not 'realising' their true selves until it happens. It's also described as something out of the blue or something didn't feel right and then that was the answer. It's always that I feel like that's me. It also feels like one day I'm going to tip myself over the edge and it will become reality or it was always a reality and I didn't realise. 

For the personality thing; I watched something and felt bad for them and then I thought 'is this me?' So now I'm scared that I have that. It's stupid 

All of the things you have written here sound pretty typical of OCD. 

Edited by malina
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I'm getting caught out by things such as when I'm not worrying about and then something I hear makes me think - that must be me. Every single time. I was also seeing that with OCD you must have some insight but I don't have any. I believe 100% that this is all true.That list is some of my reasons that seem like stuff that actual sexual deviants experience because there has been posts etc about them - so what's the difference for me? 

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8 minutes ago, don't know said:

That list is some of my reasons that seem like stuff that actual sexual deviants experience because there has been posts etc about them - so what's the difference for me

You seem to be spending almost every wakeful hour analysing and researching this stuff, whereas, presumably sexual deviants don't!

You really need a change of direction here, DK! This has been going on a long time now, and you appear to be digging yourself in deeper, so how about putting all your energy into getting to see someone who can do a proper diagnosis, and then get the help needed.  

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7 hours ago, don't know said:

I'm getting caught out by things such as when I'm not worrying about and then something I hear makes me think - that must be me. Every single time. I was also seeing that with OCD you must have some insight but I don't have any. I believe 100% that this is all true.That list is some of my reasons that seem like stuff that actual sexual deviants experience because there has been posts etc about them - so what's the difference for me? 

DK, I'm really sorry again if this is insensitive but I think you seem to misunderstand what both OCD are "sexual deviants" are like. I think you set very narrow criteria for what OCD could be and think you don't fit into that criteria. The insight thing refers mainly when people have thoughts or compulsions that are very unrealistic or "magical" (like if I don't tap something 3 times, my family will die type thing), they have a degree of awareness that such a thing isn't really possible. Yet, with many things, OCD sufferers do believe them 100%, which is why they can't break free.

On the other hand, I'm not sure that "sexual deviants" behave like you at all. You know, I think what happens is that a person starts feeling attracted to a particular person that is inappropriate for whatever reason, maybe they try to fight it or they act on it. It's not like you who doesn't seem to feel attracted to any individual person right now, yet is afraid that you are attracted to every or any family member. Like literally all of the things you list are describing someone who is highly anxious and unhappy. You are afraid of a certain things, so everything you read and hear makes you think it is true. That leaves you feeling empty and hopeless. 

I think your view is very baised. You pick out information that confirms your worst fear and rule our every alternative. It's not your fault, it's the nature of OCD but you need to work on at least accepting the possibility that all of this isn't true. 

Edited by malina
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It's just another thing to trip me up constantly. I've just decided to stop caring. I had trouble for the past few days; I had the funeral and I was a complete mess the entire time. I just felt depressed, and like there was no point. He was a good guy, he didn't deserve what happened to him. I also had to get my computer fixed and I was terrified the entire time they would find out what I had been googling and phone the police; or it would lead them to the amount of things I had googled about OCD etc. I've calmed down a bit about it but it really freaked me out. 

I do spend a lot of my time doing that because it's the only thing that provides me answers. I'm tempted to get therapy now since I'm really feeling awful and like there's no hope. 

Yeah, I felt panicky when you typed 'right now' and then I think but how do I know? It's an awful mess. It just feels so real. 

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5 hours ago, don't know said:

It's just another thing to trip me up constantly. I've just decided to stop caring. I had trouble for the past few days; I had the funeral and I was a complete mess the entire time. I just felt depressed, and like there was no point. He was a good guy, he didn't deserve what happened to him. I also had to get my computer fixed and I was terrified the entire time they would find out what I had been googling and phone the police; or it would lead them to the amount of things I had googled about OCD etc. I've calmed down a bit about it but it really freaked me out. 

I do spend a lot of my time doing that because it's the only thing that provides me answers. I'm tempted to get therapy now since I'm really feeling awful and like there's no hope. 

Yeah, I felt panicky when you typed 'right now' and then I think but how do I know? It's an awful mess. It just feels so real. 

I only wrote “right now” because I didn’t mean to imply that you never feel attraction at all (the normal kind) and I certainly did not mean that you would feel attracted to someone in your family. But see how you process information in a biased way, out of all that you picked on one phrase. 

Please do get therapy, that is really the way forward. And do consult the forum and this charity for advice, they can point you in the right direction and help you find the right person.

 

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On 04/08/2019 at 17:25, malina said:

I think you set very narrow criteria for what OCD could be and think you don't fit into that criteria.

Spot on Malina.  I agree 100%.
 

On 04/08/2019 at 17:25, malina said:

I think your view is very baised. You pick out information that confirms your worst fear and rule our every alternative. It's not your fault, it's the nature of OCD but you need to work on at least accepting the possibility that all of this isn't true.

:goodpost:

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8 hours ago, don't know said:

It just feels so real. 

The anxiety, the fear you experience, they feel real because they are real, you can't have fake anxiety or fake fear, either you feel it or you don't.  But that doesn't mean the source of the anxiety, the thing you are afraid is true is real.  

Its not the exact same as your situation, but I had a recent experience where I felt high anxiety about an intrusive thought.  I received a meeting invite at work for a 1-1 meeting with my department manager.  Now, this is not unheard of, the managers and higher up managers at my work like to have periodic check ins with the people who work below them.  But I hadn't had one with this particular manager in a long while.  Rationally I shouldn't worry, it could just be a normal check in, but for whatever reason the OCD part of my brain locked in and I started to worry about whether or not I was in trouble, maybe even going to get fired.  I tried to reassure myself, my recent performance reviews had all been good, my manager hadn't said anything negative to me about my performance, the company where I work doesn't fire people outright except for really bad things (usually low performance will result in a demotion/pay cut, but not outright firing).  There were a reasons I knew not to doubt.  Yet at the same time I worried that I was in trouble.  Maybe I was taking too long in my breaks or my lunches.  Maybe I had made some terrible mistake on a project I was working on.  Maybe I had violated some company policy or security rule.  I couldn't shake the anxious thought that maybe this meeting was going to be really bad for me.  The fear I felt was REAL.  I managed to do a pretty good job of keeping it at the back of my mind for most days leading up to the meeting.  I told myself "surely if it was something serious it wouldn't be scheduled for 1~2 weeks out right??  But I kept finding reasons to believe it might be true, I kept doubting myself, kept wondering.  Well the day of the meeting (it was a noon meeting) I was really struggling.  My anxiety was really high (I also realized in retrospect that I'd forgotten to take my medication on the day before, a Sunday, so that didn't help).  I managed to keep things under control enough to stay at work, but I felt practically sick to my stomach as I sat down in the conference room for the meeting.  

The fear was real, I felt genuine anxiety, I really believed I might get fired.

And the meeting was totally normal.  It was the regular check-in that I should have assumed it was.  I wasn't in any kind of trouble whatsoever.

I had assumed the worst case scenario and allowed my OCD to run away with that.  I had looked for reasons to believe it MIGHT be true and ignored or at least not gave enough weight to the reasons my fear wasn't reasonable.  I fell in to OCD's trap.  I should have done better, I should have known better, I've been through this before, but we all make mistakes, we all have our weak moments, and this was mine.  Its a reminder that anxiety IS real, fear IS real, but that doesn't mean what we fear is real.

I was somewhat lucky in my case, I feared an event that would happen and then be over.  Once the meeting happened, regardless of the outcome, I would know.  That is not always true.  I have other OCD intrusive thoughts that are more nebulous, things I worry might someday happen, but just because they don't happen tomorrow doesn't mean they won't happen the next day, etc. I feel real fear for those too, but I treat it as OCD.  I take steps to work through the fear, to live my life in spite of the fear.  Because I've been  in a place where the fear takes control, where everything is about compulsions (avoidance, reassurance, checking, rumination) and its hell.  No one wants to live that way, no one should have to live that way.  You don't have to live that way, but if you want to change things, you have to change your approach.  What you are doing now is NOT working.  I realize and appreciate that you tried therapy in the past and it didn't go how you wanted it to, and its possible it might not go the way you hope again, but there is at least the possibility it will.  But if you keep doing things the way you are now, ruminating, checking, avoiding, then things will definitely not improve, you'll just keep suffering.  Better to at least take a chance at getting better, than remain stuck.

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I'm having trouble with all of this - bad things just keep happening and I don't understand why. Makes me feel like I'm cursed or that I'm supposed to be like this.

I'm still getting these feelings and it seems pointless to fight it.

How do I challenge these things when the list of proof keeps growing? 

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1 hour ago, don't know said:

I'm having trouble with all of this - bad things just keep happening and I don't understand why. Makes me feel like I'm cursed or that I'm supposed to be like this.

I'm still getting these feelings and it seems pointless to fight it.

How do I challenge these things when the list of proof keeps growing? 

Unfortunately we live in an imperfect world where bad things can happen.  Sometimes bad things happen more to some people than others, and when we are struggling we may find that we focus more on bad things too.  I don't believe for a second that you (or anyone) is SUPPOSED to suffer like this, OCD and mental illness in general aren't things we get because we do something bad, they are not because of the choices we make, they are just unfortunate random things that affect some and not others, like cancer or other illness.  Some you can have control and influence over, and others you can do ALL the right things and still be affected.

I can also understand your frustration and desperation to feel better, you have been struggling a long time now and thats hard, it drains your energy, drains your hope for improvement.  But that doesn't mean there is no hope, and working towards improvement.  You can't get back the time you have already lost to OCD< none of us can, the past, good and bad is the past, we can't change it.  But the future has not yet been decided, we don't know for sure what will happen.  Maybe you will get help and find that the next 10, 20, 50 years of your life are great, you will find levels of happiness and meaning that you didn't before.  It doesn't mean the past suffering didn't happen, but it means there is a reason to keep fighting.  If you give up, theres no chance of improvement, but at least if you fight there is some chance.

As for the list of "proof", you need to understand that when we struggle with mental illness like OCD we become bad at evaluating evidence clearly, we focus on the negative, we overestimate how meaningful something is, we ignore the counter evidence.  You have listed many things as "proof" in the past, but when those of us outside your situation see this evidence, we tell you that it doesn't mean what you think it MUST mean.  For example you have very often said "OCD wouldn't work this way" or "This means its not OCD", when the opposite is often true.  Thats not because you aren't feeling what you feel, or believe what you believe.  Your feelings, anger, fear, distress, doubt, are all real.  But that doesn't mean the conclusion you have drawn is true.  When it comes to these problems, you have a mental bias that is affecting your judgement, we all do when it comes to OCD.  We try and 'reason' our way out, but that type of frontal assault doesn't work against OCD.  Its hard to accept this, its hard to adjust our thinking, we have been taught our whole lives to solve problems a certain way, unfortunately OCD kind of breaks those traditional approaches.

You can get better, there is hope, but you should really really really get someone who can help you in that recovery.  Very few of us are well equipped to handle it on our own.  You wouldn't try and treat your own broken leg, you'd see a doctor.  Well this is similar, and fortunately we have psychiatrists and therapists who are trained to help us the same way other doctors are trained to help our bodies heal.

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