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Avo

Am I avoiding or doing the right thing ?

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Hi all,

Can you help me on the following ? I have a song on my I pod which I have always liked.  A few years ago  it was  proven that the lead singer was a paedophile. It was a very distressing story. From maybe 5 years ago.

I have never listened to the song since but it's still on my I pod. My question is. 

Should I have deleted it as soon as this story broke. I have thought this but never got around to it. However is deleting it some kind of avoidance ? I am honestly not sure which is right in this. 

Thanks for your help.

Avo

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3 minutes ago, Avo said:

Should I have deleted it as soon as this story broke. I have thought this but never got around to it. However is deleting it some kind of avoidance ? I am honestly not sure which is right in this. 

Try not to should yourself or assume any responsibility in this issue, it's just a song. Some people would carry on listening to it, others wouldn't, it's personal choice. 

Do you know if you want to listen to it again? 

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Is this lostprophets by any chance? I have had the same debate with myself. They used to be one of my absolute favourite bands. I didn't listen to them for a very long time after the news broke. But honestly, I do listen to them on occasion now. I am not sure whether this is right or not but I try not to analyse it too much. Some people would argue that the artist is not the art, and that loads of books etc would be unreadable if we judged them on the morality if the creator. Others would say is completely wrong.  Also, the lead singer is just one person. If it had been say the drummer who was convicted would we feel the same?

There's no right or wrong answer to any of this and I think sometimes it's good exposure to not be quite sure about something. 

Edited by gingerbreadgirl

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2 hours ago, Gemma7 said:

Try not to should yourself or assume any responsibility in this issue, it's just a song. Some people would carry on listening to it, others wouldn't, it's personal choice. 

Do you know if you want to listen to it again? 

Hi Gemma, Thanks for your response in truth I would probably have carried on listening to the song had this not happened. I don't listen to my I Pod that much but do avoid this song when I do. So I suppose technically I am practising avoidance?

 

1 hour ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Is this lostprophets by any chance? I have had the same debate with myself. They used to be one of my absolute favourite bands. I didn't listen to them for a very long time after the news broke. But honestly, I do listen to them on occasion now. I am not sure whether this is right or not but I try not to analyse it too much. Some people would argue that the artist is not the art, and that loads of books etc would be unreadable if we judged them on the morality if the creator. Others would say is completely wrong.  Also, the lead singer is just one person. If it had been say the drummer who was convicted would we feel the same?

There's no right or wrong answer to any of this and I think sometimes it's good exposure to not be quite sure about something. 

It is them GBG! the song in question is Last train home. Its been niggling at me on and off for a while now. I take your point about the artist not being the art and as you say many books could be questioned if you looked into the morality of the Author. I think due to the crimes committed and the subject matter it has worried me. its kind of playing to one of my themes. If he had been convicted of assault for example I would probably not have stopped listening. I suppose I worry I am somehow condoning his actions if I carry on listening? Assault if of course wrong too but I put it as less bad than his actual crimes. 

If it were another member of the band? it maybe would make a bit of a difference but I still probably would struggle with my trying to work out what I should or shouldn't do. 

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1 hour ago, Avo said:

So I suppose technically I am practising avoidance?

We all avoid things in life for a variety of reasons, and that’s ok. Avoidance (or any behavior) is an issue for OCD sufferers if it becomes a compulsion. 

If the reason you avoid the song isn’t related to an OCD obsession then it’s not an OCD problem. If you were simply conflicted over it because of the situation with the artist then that would be a different question. 

However even if you are avoiding the song because of some related OCD fear, it might ALSO still be reasonable to avoid it for the moral reasons. Let’s say your anxiety is related to pedophilia. You avoid the song because you don’t like to be reminded of the topic.  Well that’s an avoidance compulsion, not a good thing.  But you might also have a moral concern about supporting someone who had done a bad thing. There are other ways to challenge your OCD fear, so removing the song might be ok in that circumstance.  Sometimes there is no one absolute right answer, you just have to consider your options and make your best choice at the time.  After all, spending too much time ruminating about whether or not to do something could also very well be a compulsion.

My advice is to spend a little time thinking about it, make you best effort decision and then go with that. Not a perfect decision, that’s impossible, just a best guess and move on with your life.

 

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1 hour ago, dksea said:

We all avoid things in life for a variety of reasons, and that’s ok. Avoidance (or any behavior) is an issue for OCD sufferers if it becomes a compulsion. 

If the reason you avoid the song isn’t related to an OCD obsession then it’s not an OCD problem. If you were simply conflicted over it because of the situation with the artist then that would be a different question. 

However even if you are avoiding the song because of some related OCD fear, it might ALSO still be reasonable to avoid it for the moral reasons. Let’s say your anxiety is related to pedophilia. You avoid the song because you don’t like to be reminded of the topic.  Well that’s an avoidance compulsion, not a good thing.  But you might also have a moral concern about supporting someone who had done a bad thing. There are other ways to challenge your OCD fear, so removing the song might be ok in that circumstance.  Sometimes there is no one absolute right answer, you just have to consider your options and make your best choice at the time.  After all, spending too much time ruminating about whether or not to do something could also very well be a compulsion.

My advice is to spend a little time thinking about it, make you best effort decision and then go with that. Not a perfect decision, that’s impossible, just a best guess and move on with your life.

 

Some wise words dksea thanks for your response,  I think its a mixture of OCD and moral reasons. I have also been ruminating quite a lot - which is my biggest compulsion across all my themes. 

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1 hour ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Maybe it would be a good exposure for you avo to listen to the song? 

Yes that's a good point GBG, l am not sure I am brave enough at the moment but I can see it would be a good ERP exercise. 

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Could you maybe build up to it, perhaps look at the track on your iPod, maybe listen to just the first couple of notes or read the lyrics? And gradually build from there?

I think it's also good to look at what's going on cognitively here. In your mind you have linked "I am listening to a song which is sung by a convicted paedophile" to  "therefore that means I condone paedophilia " - quite a huge leap. What makes you reach this conclusion? 

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1 hour ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Could you maybe build up to it, perhaps look at the track on your iPod, maybe listen to just the first couple of notes or read the lyrics? And gradually build from there?

I think it's also good to look at what's going on cognitively here. In your mind you have linked "I am listening to a song which is sung by a convicted paedophile" to  "therefore that means I condone paedophilia " - quite a huge leap. What makes you reach this conclusion? 

I have the OCD theme of worrying if I am one myself I know I am not but its the thing I fear. I suppose like OCD attacking your core values - so that plays into that scenario, it really takes very little for me to make such leaps. 

Edited by Avo

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4 hours ago, dksea said:

 

My advice is to spend a little time thinking about it, make you best effort decision and then go with that. Not a perfect decision, that’s impossible, just a best guess and move on with your life.

 

This ... excellent dksea. 

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9 hours ago, Avo said:

I have the OCD theme of worrying if I am one myself I know I am not but its the thing I fear. I suppose like OCD attacking your core values - so that plays into that scenario, it really takes very little for me to make such leaps. 

I totally understand x

I guess what I was really angling at was - could you look at any cognitive distortions that are going on? This theme is obviously very much alive for you and maybe you need to attack it in some different ways. You could use this as an opportunity to really disarm ocd. 

I know you don't feel able to listen to the song - which I totally understand, his crimes were absolutely vile - but I do feel it could be a good exposure for you if you built up to it. It's just a song. You already have it so you wouldn't be supporting Ian watkins in any way shape or form. But it might just help pull the rug out from under ocd. Just a thought. 

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2 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I totally understand x

I guess what I was really angling at was - could you look at any cognitive distortions that are going on? This theme is obviously very much alive for you and maybe you need to attack it in some different ways. You could use this as an opportunity to really disarm ocd. 

I know you don't feel able to listen to the song - which I totally understand, his crimes were absolutely vile - but I do feel it could be a good exposure for you if you built up to it. It's just a song. You already have it so you wouldn't be supporting Ian watkins in any way shape or form. But it might just help pull the rug out from under ocd. Just a thought. 

The theme is very much alive for me, its under control - to a point but I know I still perform compulsions around the topic. I am much better than I was say 10 years ago, I was really restricted by it in terms of what I did, routes I took - in one of my previous jobs I had to drive past a secondary school on my commute to work. I actively thought about looking for another route at one point as I thought somehow i was going something inappropriate by daring to drive past it. this caused me genuine distress.

I could list other things that I did - which seem extreme and stupid now but I suppose that's what OCD pushes you to. I am much better now by a long way but it still gets you sometimes I am aware I still restrict myself to a point over certain things. I would say I am 75% recovered on this theme still have work to do. I have the song its not like he would make any money out of me listening to it, and I suppose you have to remember the other members of the band were not involved in these vile crimes. 

Cognitive distortion is a big part of my thinking . Thanks for your advice I do appreciate it. 

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Hi Avo :)

I think listening to the song as an exposure would be something to work towards. The reason being is that if you delete it I think for you it would be an avoidance. You want to get to a point where if it pops up on the radio or in a random playlist when you're out and about it's not something that triggers you. If you do controlled behavioural experiments with it that you get to plan out and predict how you'll feel etc. then after that you can choose freely if you want to listen to it generally or delete it. 

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