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Dave321

My sexual orientation has changed

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Really need to vent .  

As a teenager I think I was straight.  I fantasised about females only.  If I saw erotic pictures of women I felt arousal such as page 3 in the Sun newspaper etc..   I remember hiding a pic of Geri Halliwell under my bed as a 15 year old for example and would masturbate to it.  I only masturbated about women.   I am now in my late 30's and my reactions to seeing such pictures of women or women in porn (very rarely do I watch it. Once or twice a year) is of boredom and sadness.  I no longer feel adrenaline seeing women undressing etc or even kissing a girl in person is having less and less of an affect as time goes on.  I used to get highly aroused kissing a girl or even chatting to her.  Now nothing.

I never remember getting aroused to seeing a man take his top off as a kid or teen.  I never really checked though tbh. But if I did happen to see a man take his top off in a a film or tv ad I never felt turned on.  Now I feel turned on and dont want to be.  It scares me and freaks me out and I get depressed over it. Now my heart starts beating harder when I see such a scene on tv.

This all started in 2007 when I was 25.  I had erection problems and started seeing doctors about it.  It never occured to me that being gay might be a cause until the doctors didnt help me much.  It neve roccured to em because I had always gotten hard in my teens to girls on tv and in magazines.  Why would I question something that I had always been?   Anyway I tried masturbating to gay thoughts to check and felt some arousal kick in and totally freaked out and I started crying.  The groinal responses started the very next day.  I had a feeling in my anus 24/7.  If I saw even an average looking man during my day I would feel something down there. It was horrible.  It has evolved a bit since then and I no longer have any sensations 24/7.

The biggest thing freaking me out is my diminishing reactions to women.  Why are they getting less and less as time goes on??  Is it because I have 'found myself' and am gay now? 

I was watching some show about the 80's on BBC the other week and there was a lighthearted chat about some mainstream film that involved a gay love scene that would have been taboo at the time.  It involved a laundrette or something,  Anyway they showed these 2 guys kissing and I felt apprehension and strong heartbeat and groinal response.  So far (it may in future) I do not get an erection but the sensation is that my body wants to get erect but my mind is terrified and wont allow it to happen.  Then this nags away at me and I tell myself I'm gay over and over and to accept it and try to masturbate to the thoughts that scare me.  Sometimes my mind just wont allow it and I cant get it up enough.  Othertimes I can finish but feel awful after.

I only masturbate about women now almost to prove I can still get aroused by thoughts of sex with them. I never feel that arousal suddenly kick in when a female sex scene suddenly pops up on screen that catches me off guard anymore.  When its a gay themed scene I get this sudden groinal like a transient arousal that lasts maybe 3 seconds but then disappears leaving this groinal sensation.  Its scary.  Is this my true reactions as I didnt have time to think before it happened?

I should add when this first started I checked gay porn to see if I got aroused and I found it disgusting and boring.  From 2007-2015 I would say that this happend anytime I did check.  Now I think it may be more arousing than straight porn if I checked now.  I havent seen gay porn in about 3 yrs. I am afraid to look.  I have seen straight porn and it now doesnt invoke the arousal it used to.

I am really scared this is not ocd.  I was told it was by a therapist but I now fear I was told wrong information and that I was just in denial or in the closet.  I am scred I will want to be gay one day and do stuff that I am scared of.

I read a facebook article recently where some pastor in america who did gay conversion therapy came out as gay himself.  He is quoted as saying he now wishes to persue things he always wanted to avoid and that in his past he got intense feelings for men . Oh my God I think this is me and my groinals! :(

That is going to be me I just know it! :(

Has this seemingly permanent loss of arousal happened to anyone else??  Did it come back?   I am not on any meds nor have been.

Am I just gay and not accepting it and embracing it?  I try to come out to myself and masturbate about men  and tell myself this is ok but my mind has trouble allowing me to do it like there is a handbrake on and I hope that it doesnt work and I dont get an erection.

 

 

Edited by Dave321

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You poor guy. Years and years you've been going through this torment. You post the same old thing, you get advice, you try and convince us you must be gay, we tell you it's OCD, you go away. A few months later and you post again.

You're stuck in your own Groundhog day, doomed to repeat the same thing, over and over. And the really sad part is that all of this isn't working. It's not working at all. And doing it more won't make it work either.

How many more years are you going to cintinue doing all the wrong things and end up getting the same negative result?

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Firstly I post here sometimes because I hoped it was ocd when this first started.  I sought help from an ocd therapist. I was told it was probably ocd.  But my symptoms have evolved since then and now I am scared I was gay all along and I fear I am in denial because I cant accept the painful truth. 

I still hope its ocd but as the years go by it seems like those odds are getting very small.

I guess I try to accept I'm gay to put me out of my misery but accepting it makes me very depressed.

I still cant get over the finger ratio and that this proves I was born gay. 

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Sigh. The same old bull, every time. There is no such thing as a finger ratio. It's a lie on the Internet. It's been debunked. You fell for it because you are vulnerable.

So answer my question... how many more years are you going to keep doing stuff that doesn't work before you change what you are doing?

Edited by PolarBear

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It hasn't been debunked at all .  If you google it universities are studying it more and more and linking it with different types of cancers, heart disease, sexual orientation etc..

I know a couple of gay people and the gay girl has masculine ratio and the gay guy has the female ratio. 

 

I dont know tbh.  I will probably be like this for years on end unless I actually act on it and come out.  I tried therapy.  It didnt work.  I carried around a picture of a naked man and was told to look at it 10 times a day and read affirmation cards that said I was gay as exposure to reduce my fear.

The groinals persisted.   Its all well and good saying they dont mean anything and to ignore them and to ignore the lack of response to women.

I watch ocd videos on youtube and read articles.   Chrissie Hodges is probably the most like me although she is a woman.

I dont get intrusive images like real sufferers.  I get arousals/groinals whatever you want to callt hem for things I dont want.

 

 

 

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I HAD groinal "responses" about kids! It's got nothing to do with arousal or intent - nothing at all.

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3 hours ago, Dave321 said:

It hasn't been debunked at all .  If you google it universities are studying it more and more and linking it with different types of cancers, heart disease, sexual orientation etc..

Digit ratio as proof of homosexuality in men has been debunked.  Further even in studies that suggested a correlation, it was never absolute.  Yes there does appear to be CORRELATION between digit length and many other behavior or physiological traits, however correlation does not mean its ALWAYS true, it means its more likely to be true IF there is a provable correlation.  Moreover just because there is correlation between two traits (such as digit length and heart disease) does NOT mean there is correlation between other traits (such as digit length and male homosexuality).  And yes, again, the connection between gay men and digit length has been debunked by a meta-study (i.e. comprehensive review of other studies).
 

3 hours ago, Dave321 said:

I know a couple of gay people and the gay girl has masculine ratio and the gay guy has the female ratio. 

And?  I know an asian guy who got in a car accident.  Does that mean ALL asians are bad drivers? Or even that HE is a bad driver?  Those are single data points, they are meaningless.
Lets say I want to find out how likely I am to win the lottery.  I ask two people.  Those two people happen to be two former lottery winners.  I can conclude from those two people that I have a 100% chance of winning the lottery right? WRONG.  The sample size is too small and not random.
 

3 hours ago, Dave321 said:

I get arousals/groinals whatever you want to callt hem for things I dont want.

Again, you are drawing a conclusion based on false premises.  Groinal responses don't only occur when you are sexually aroused.  They CAN occur when you are sexual aroused but that is not a 1-1 mapping (like correlation above).

I could keep breaking down the flaws in your logic all day, but it really won't matter, you'll keep coming up with ways to doubt because that's how OCD works.  You need to accept that OCD is at work, that you feel doubt about this, that that doesn't mean its true, and do the steps to keep fighting OCD.  Or you can keep suffering.  Those are your choices.

P.S.  If you are gay you are gay, if you aren't you aren't, maybe you are somewhere on the spectrum between full gay and full straight.  Maybe you should also ask yourself why you care so much?  Short of living in a society/family where being gay would be an actual threat to your life, so what?  You like who you like.  Its a man, its a woman, whatever.  It doesn't mean you'll "act" on it unless you choose to.  I'm straight, it doesn't mean I am compelled against my will to try and have sex with women (i.e. rape them).  Regardless of what your actual orientation is, you are still the one in control of how you act.

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OK - let's say you're gay. So? You don't have to have gay sex. There is no law that says you have to do anything. You can do whatever you choose to do. You can have gay sex straight sex or no sex at all. Whatever. Honestly man there's a lot of life to live that is nothing to do with being gay or straight and the way you're living is absolutely no life at all. You're stuck in this infinite loop of misery. Time to get out. 

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Even if I don't act on it I do not want to have thoughts of men in that way or sensations in my groin every time I see one.  That would be torture.  I do not want the thoughts or feelings in my own head/body. 

I want to get with girls and feel genuine about doing it not thinking I am a fraud and living a lie.  I want to have a sex drive for women again.

p.s.  I have never seen a gay person that doesn't have the designated finger ratio that you would expect them to have.  I doubt some of the studies because if you stop a person on the street for a hand scan and ask them their sexual orientation I am sure a lot of them would say 'straight' as they might not feel comfortable disclosing that info to a stranger. 

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28 minutes ago, Dave321 said:

Even if I don't act on it I do not want to have thoughts of men in that way or sensations in my groin every time I see one.  That would be torture.  I do not want the thoughts or feelings in my own head/body. 

I want to get with girls and feel genuine about doing it not thinking I am a fraud and living a lie.  I want to have a sex drive for women again.

p.s.  I have never seen a gay person that doesn't have the designated finger ratio that you would expect them to have.  I doubt some of the studies because if you stop a person on the street for a hand scan and ask them their sexual orientation I am sure a lot of them would say 'straight' as they might not feel comfortable disclosing that info to a stranger. 

I don't think researchers just approach people on the street, they probably would recruit people who were gay if they ever wanted to do such a study. Also a recent study found that there is no single "gay" gene, which makes it unlikely that all gay people share a common physical trait. 

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Do you honestly think gay people are turned on by every single man they see?! That would be an exhausting way to live! Do you not think it's more likely that is caused by anxiety and hyper vigilance? 

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25 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Do you honestly think gay people are turned on by every single man they see?! That would be an exhausting way to live! Do you not think it's more likely that is caused by anxiety and hyper vigilance? 

Well as a heterosexual man I'm not turned on by every woman I see! Seriously I totally agree GBG but the problem to me is the OP's refusal to accept it's OCD unless I'm not seeing something else? My understanding is that if you look for "evidence" enough you'll find it - one of the worst things about the internet. Ten out of 100 people (say) will believe man didn't land on the moon and there's no reasoning with them.

Edited by PhilM
spelling mistake!

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58 minutes ago, PhilM said:

the problem to me is the OP's refusal to accept it's OCD unless I'm not seeing something else?

But that's the point.  OCD is not straight forward, it's complex and why it was once referred to as the doubting disease, it can convince us that black is white.  Chances are, if the person could easily accept the doubts they wouldn't have OCD, or at least they would make progress easily.

We sometimes have to work harder to help some people understand their obsessive fears and worries are in fact OCD and not indicators of real desires. 

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2 hours ago, Ashley said:

But that's the point.  OCD is not straight forward, it's complex and why it was once referred to as the doubting disease, it can convince us that black is white.  Chances are, if the person could easily accept the doubts they wouldn't have OCD, or at least they would make progress easily.

We sometimes have to work harder to help some people understand their obsessive fears and worries are in fact OCD and not indicators of real desires. 

Well to me as a sufferer of 25 years it seems like a catch-22 situation very similar to Health Anxiety Disorder. To be honest Ashley and maybe I shouldn't be saying this on someone else's thread I actually don't think it's as complicated as it's made out to be and I say that as someone who had multiple hospital admissions, tried every medication going and was offered ECT and talked about psychosurgery. We can go round the houses speculating about the causes and types but ultimately does that really help - really? Yes, information is good but on this forum for years on end I've seen the same people "stuck" and I don't mean that as an insult because I was "stuck" myself for years. As I said maybe not for this thread but why aren't some people moving forward (and often are getting worse) with all this information available AND help that wasn't around 25 years ago? My assumption is that if someone found their way to this forum that on SOME level they know it's OCD. None of this is meant insultingly but I actually think forums like this do some people more harm than good.

Edited by PhilM

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15 minutes ago, PhilM said:

To be honest Ashley and maybe I shouldn't be saying this on someone else's thread

You're right. None of this helps the original poster. 

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Ashley you're the chief executive of OCD-UK and also a sufferer but a) that doesn't make you above members in terms of being sarcastic and also you're no more an expert than me. You might think you are but you're not. If you want an adult conversation please start a new thread. I don't think I'm the only person who goes off on a tangent on someone else's thread but at least I've got the manners to admit it. Delete if appropriate but at least have the courtesy to explain to me why in a PM unlike the other week when a post of mine that was innocuous was removed with no explanation.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Ashley said:

You're right. None of this helps the original poster. 

I don't deny I am sarcastic, and I can get very sarcastic... This was not one of those moments. Phil it's self explanatory, you said yourself you shouldn't be posting on the thread.. no explanation needed. If you wish to take it to PM, please feel free. 

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14 hours ago, Dave321 said:

p.s.  I have never seen a gay person that doesn't have the designated finger ratio that you would expect them to have.

Even if that's true, thats not how science works.  Science takes a random sample of people, in this case they would take a random sample of people who identify as gay and a random sample of people who identify as straight.  They would then measure the lengths of the fingers and see if there is a correlation.  Studies have been done that follow the scientific method and have found that for men, there is no correlation between finger ratio and homosexuality.  A persons random individual experiences are not proof, they are not done in a way to exclude coincidence or bias or any number of other factors that can contribute.  Finger ratio has been debunked as an indicator of male homosexuality.  Thats the science.  You can keep arguing about it in your head all you want, but it won't change reality.
 

14 hours ago, Dave321 said:

Even if I don't act on it I do not want to have thoughts of men in that way or sensations in my groin every time I see one.  That would be torture.  I do not want the thoughts or feelings in my own head/body. 

And I didn't want the thoughts of possible self-harm every time I saw a knife or walked across a bridge or walked alongside a road.  These thoughts absolutely terrified me.  I hated them.  They were torture.  So I applied CBT and I got better and now I can see a knife without a second thought, I can walk across a bridge and enjoy the view, I walk alongside the road to work everyday without a second thought.  I could have remained terrified of the possibility it would never change OR I could take steps to change it.

If you do nothing, nothing will get better.
If you do something, things will probably get better. 

Dwelling on the worst case possibilities changes nothing for the better.  It doesn't help you in any way.  It only makes things worse.  
So you can keep dwelling on the worst case scenarios, the "but what if" or you can do the work to change your situation.  What you do is ultimately up to you.

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Dave has been posting this exact same thing for 3 years on various message boards.  Answered hundreds of times. Even this one is an old topic. 

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I dont go checking my groin but I get almost instant groinal arousal type scary intense feelings when I see say a male swimmer in speedos. Is that normal for ocd?  I know people get groinals AFTER they start checking and scrutising their groin.  My groinals happen before I even have a chance to think.

Also I read other HOCD people saying they get intrusive images frequently and during masturbation and sex especially.  I dont get those.  Does that mean I dont have ocd?

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19 minutes ago, Dave321 said:

Also I read other HOCD people saying they get intrusive images frequently and during masturbation and sex especially.  I dont get those.  Does that mean I dont have ocd?

It could be helpful for you to not think of those suffering with OCD worries about sexual orientation as 'HOCD people', that's not me being pedantic over language, by always using the long way of describing it may help you recognise what's going on with you. After all, they're not HOCD people anyway... not one single person alive could be called that.

But to answer your question, some people will get those intrusive thoughts, some won't. Some will get them every time, some infrequently, some never during sex or masterbation. It doesn't mean anything, if a person does or doesnt get the thoughts or feelings.

You are obsessing over your worries and doubts, you're checking, you're worrying even more, some level of anxiety at times, all of which suggests OCD. 

Remember Dave, OCD is a chameleon, it's constantly changing its appearance and there's never an exact blueprint of how OCD will look for each person.

 

 

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Thank you Ashley.    I still dont think there is enough general information on sexual based ocd with all the nitty gritty details.  Like explanations of the  Groinal response is very vague for example.  I have read pretty much everything on ''hocd'' online. 

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You are not going to find an article on groinal response that exactly describes what you go through. It is specific to the individual. So give up looking.

How many times have you Googled 'groinal response' and read what you found? Hundreds of times? More? How has that worked out for you? I'm betting you're no better off now than the first time you searched. 

So why continue doing it? I know it's becsuse you have OCD and your mind fixates on irrelevant things, but you need to look at what you're doing and start realizing it ain't working for you.

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Poor old Dave 321 ... wasting all that time, taking up space on the forum with nonsense. 'Finger ratio' antics earnestly thrown in for added amusement (what century do you think you're living in?) Incidentally, there are some gay OCD sufferers out there, obsessing that they might be hetero. No less ridiculous. 

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