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Dave321

My sexual orientation has changed

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This is a serious genuine question:   I got bullied in school age 12 and was called gay and other derogatory names that gay people get called.  This was 25 yrs ago.  Since then I have always been self conscious that maybe I'm gay.   As a teenager I always made sure to try to appear straight and not gay.   I masturbated only about women and I genuinely enjoyed it.  I never masturbated about men and it never occurred to me to try.  I got great orgasms masturbating about women.

In my 20's I had trouble with erections with girls and failed attempts at sex. Went to urologists etc.  2 out of 3 urologists said something was wrong down there.  One of them didn't think anything was wrong.  This is when the thought of being gay hit me hard.  12 yrs later here I am.

Anyway I dont get full proper erections at any time.   I have sex with women when I take a pill but cant really without one.  The thought occurs to me frequently that maybe it would work if I was with a man.  To test I tried masturbating about men many times to see if it gets me a proper erection.  It doesn't but the thought persists ''yeah but if you were actually WITH a man it would work'' and this cycle continues.   Sex with women is  a bit 'meh' to be  honest. The orgasm dull.  I no longer feel the adrenaline rush and excitement I used to get masturbating about women as a teen.

Anyway a few days ago I was mucking around with my mates and one of my mates pretended to be gay for a second just having a laugh and put his hand down near my lower stomach while I was sitting down.  I felt anxiety but also this kind of lightening bolt sensation in my body like sexual excitement even though it was unwanted.  It was a really strong sensation.  I am terrified it means I am gay and that this is the fireworks that I am supposed to be feeling when being intimate with someone.  I am also hoping its just some sort of hyper vigilance anxiety and anticipation response.

I have constant doubts I have nothing wrong with my penis and that I would get strong erections without pills  if I kissed or was intimate with men.  I got down yesterday and checked gay porn for about 5 mins to test and got no erection.

My question is this especially to gay forum members is would I get hard masturbating about men if I was gay or am I repressing it somehow?  Is this lightening bolt sensation my true attractions coming out?

Is sex mediocre normal even for straight or gay people or does it mean I am not being fulfilled because I am not doing it with the right gender?

Also I am very self conscious. I hate seeing photos of myself or hearing my voice etc.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Dave321 said:

This is a serious genuine question:   I got bullied in school age 12 and was called gay and other derogatory names that gay people get called.  This was 25 yrs ago.  Since then I have always been self conscious that maybe I'm gay.   As a teenager I always made sure to try to appear straight and not gay.  

Ok so this helps understand where the deep rooted OCD fears have originated, which makes complete sense based off what we know about you Dave.   

 

26 minutes ago, Dave321 said:

In my 20's I had trouble with erections with girls and failed attempts at sex. Went to urologists etc.  2 out of 3 urologists said something was wrong down there.  One of them didn't think anything was wrong.  This is when the thought of being gay hit me hard. 

Again this makes sense to me Dave, although I don't think this is where the thoughts of being gay first started, I guess the seeds were sewn when you were a kid of 12 as you mention above. This problem with erections simply reinforced the fear from childhood.

Of course knowing that would help a CBT therapist understand what's driven the fears all these years, but of course doesn't necessarily change the here and now.

 

28 minutes ago, Dave321 said:

I have sex with women when I take a pill but cant really without one.  The thought occurs to me frequently that maybe it would work if I was with a man.  To test I tried masturbating about men many times to see if it gets me a proper erection.  It doesn't but the thought persists ''yeah but if you were actually WITH a man it would work'' and this cycle continues.

Oh hello OCD...   Do you understand the process that is taken place here Dave?  Strip away the 'theme', the process is...   

Doubt > Test Compulsion > Reinforce Doubts > Perpetual cycle.

That's is pretty much the same process for all of us with OCD, regardless of theme.  Now if we add into that mix your past history and the fact it all feels so real (the am I gay question) it's no wonder you are stuck in this cycle Dave.  This is where sometimes I try and encourage people to look at the problem, the cycle, without the theme and emotion to understand the OCD concept. To help them understand what's going on beneath the surface of the emotion.

 

31 minutes ago, Dave321 said:

Anyway a few days ago I was mucking around with my mates and one of my mates pretended to be gay for a second just having a laugh and put his hand down near my lower stomach while I was sitting down.  I felt anxiety but also this kind of lightening bolt sensation in my body like sexual excitement even though it was unwanted.  It was a really strong sensation.  I am terrified it means I am gay .

 

32 minutes ago, Dave321 said:

I am also hoping its just some sort of hyper vigilance anxiety and anticipation response.

Absolutely.... the very EXACT same of body sensation of sexual excitement happens to someone whose OCD fears make them worry they 'might' be a paedophile the very second a little child touches their leg and jumps up on their lap.  Their hyper awareness creates an anticipation response.

 

35 minutes ago, Dave321 said:

My question is this especially to gay forum members is would I get hard masturbating about men if I was gay or am I repressing it somehow?  Is this lightening bolt sensation my true attractions coming out?

Is sex mediocre normal even for straight or gay people or does it mean I am not being fulfilled because I am not doing it with the right gender?

Ok.... I don't think we should answer this (I would rather try and help you figure it out), so I want you to focus on my words above where I encourage you to strip away the 'theme' and focus on the process...   

Doubt > Test Compulsion > Reinforce Doubts > Perpetual cycle.

In theory that and my comments above about anticipation response should help you answer your own question :)

 

35 minutes ago, Dave321 said:

Also I am very self conscious. I hate seeing photos of myself or hearing my voice etc.

Me too.. I am not gay.  But I also know gay friends who worry about this too....  confidence and self-esteem about appearance will most likely come back once the OCD is taken care of I suspect.

 

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Thanks Ashley.  I really think I am a fraud though.   I feel like my gut instinct is telling me I am gay and that I was born gay and never copped on until my 20's and that I only found thoughts of women arousing as a teenager because my hormones were going crazy. 

Is it ocd if I get a groinal response only in specific scenarios though?  Like seeing a topless man who has a good body or standing next to a good looking guy??  I had two very strong groinal responses the last few days standing next to a good looking guy and also going on facebook and seeing some pic of a tanned topless man.

I feel like I am hoping its ocd and trying to fool myself and others its ocd by saying things that make it sound like ocd.  Maybe I should be saying when I see topless men I get aroused rather than saying its a groinal response.  Maybe I should be saying I used to find women arousing but now only find men arousing. 

Maybe thats the truth? :(

 

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I appreciate that you are struggling Dave and that this is hard for you, that doesn't make you a fraud, this is what OCD does to people, its a disease of doubt.  A few things:
 

7 hours ago, Dave321 said:

I only found thoughts of women arousing as a teenager because my hormones were going crazy. 

Thats not how sexual attraction works.  Its not how being gay (or not) works.  
 

7 hours ago, Dave321 said:

Is it ocd if I get a groinal response only in specific scenarios though?  Like seeing a topless man who has a good body or standing next to a good looking guy??  I had two very strong groinal responses the last few days standing next to a good looking guy and also going on facebook and seeing some pic of a tanned topless man.

Yes, because your responses in these situations have been affected by your obsessions and the testing you have been doing for a long time now.  
 

7 hours ago, Dave321 said:

I feel like I am hoping its ocd and trying to fool myself and others its ocd by saying things that make it sound like ocd.

The odds of you accidentally convincing people with significant experience dealing with OCD sufferers and OCD that you have OCD is vanishingly small.  Its not something you are going to be able to pull off unintentionally.  You'd have to have spent a significant amount of time studying OCD and how it affects people and then intentionally trying to fool all of us.  You aren't the first person on these forums to propose that theory, you aren't going to be the last.  I understand you fear it to be true, but honestly its not a logical worry in the slightest.  

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Hi Dave321. You are posting on an OCD site rather than a gay site. So you are seeking reassurance or confirmation that it is OCD. Tom Dailey got bullied at school for being gay. I do not know which country you live in. But hypervigilance would be a survival strategy in the 94 countries where homosexuality is illegal. But if you are in a country where homosexuality is legal and tolerated I think the answer would be the same for CBT therapy for OCD or the diagnosis for homophobia in the gay community would be to test the hypothesis.

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I don't understand your post.  Are you saying I might be gay and homophobic?

I wonder if I am gay and homophobic myself.  I feel nervous and get groinals consistently around men tespecially gay guys or good looking guys and have no libido for women anymore (if I even had libido for women in the 1st place. I am so confused )

Kids can tell if someone is ''different''.  I think they spotted that in me and then I grew up affected by the bullying and didnt want to be gay and so wanted to be straighter than straight.  I did masturbate about girls only and found it really nice.  Did I just have strong hormones as a teen and could get off to anything back then as a result??  Maybe I just didnt know who I was back then??  Maybe I masturbated to women out of heteronormative society and didnt know any better?  Maybe I did it out of choice instead of nature??  I think it was natural but maybe it wasn't and I hadn't ''found myself''?

Gay marriage is legal here but I am in my late 30's now and grew up in the 90's and schools and society was much more homophobic then. Maybe I am a product of that society and I have internalised homophobia? 

I dont know how to convice myself it is ocd if it is.  It just doesnt seem like it is.  I feel like I am a fraud and lying to myself and will be laughed at if I do come out later in life  as gay for being a liar and misleading everyone. 

There are nitty gritty details of my groinals/arousals that I could go into but suffice to say they feel like I am genuinely highly aroused and then this awful shame/depression/anxiety comes over me and shuts it down.  I dont even know if its a groinal or not.

 

 

 

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The famous Kinsey report on American male sexuality published decades ago indicated in the case of US society 10 different types of homosexual behaviour. Some men engaging in homosexual acts did not define themselves as homosexual.

The etymology of heterosexual traces back to the 1860s where it meant out of control sexuality. Later the term homosexuality came into use. Foucault the French social philosopher has tracked the development of the meanings of the terms and the rise of the politics of sexual identity. The Brazilian notion of transgender sexuality is different from the North American and Western European conception of it. These are just examples of different conceptions of sexual identity in time and space. Roman society did not have the binary divide of sexuality but mapped out eight different types of sexuality.

Perhaps binary thinking is the problem?

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5 hours ago, Angst said:

The famous Kinsey report on American male sexuality published decades ago indicated in the case of US society 10 different types of homosexual behaviour. Some men engaging in homosexual acts did not define themselves as homosexual.

The etymology of heterosexual traces back to the 1860s where it meant out of control sexuality. Later the term homosexuality came into use. Foucault the French social philosopher has tracked the development of the meanings of the terms and the rise of the politics of sexual identity. The Brazilian notion of transgender sexuality is different from the North American and Western European conception of it. These are just examples of different conceptions of sexual identity in time and space. Roman society did not have the binary divide of sexuality but mapped out eight different types of sexuality.

Perhaps binary thinking is the problem?

I never want to do anything with a guy. I'm scared I will choose to in future or scared I will at some point.  I dont want groinals even if I never act on it.

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1 minute ago, Dave321 said:

I never want to do anything with a guy. I'm scared I will choose to in future or scared I will at some point.  I dont want groinals even if I never act on it.

Don't worry Dave, I don't think Angst was meaning to suggest you do. 

I realise now that moving you from one extreme end of the OCD thinking spectrum to even middle 'normal' thinking area of the spectrum is unlikely to be a process that can be done so automatically. Therefore I think we need to work slowly to help you address many of these aspects of your thinking one step at a time.

I am not sure where to start (I am not a therapist), but we could start by looking at this line and the last part of it about a groinal response? Here you say you never want such a response, even if you never act on it.  Do you recognise that in that statement you're wanting something that is unrealistic to expect at this stage?

So I guess what I am trying to help you understand is that for your recovery journey to begin, for now you need to accept that from time-to-time, unwanted groinal responses will happen (we can address why they happen later), but you do need to accept they will happen.  It's actually what an obsession (OCD obsession) is Dave, an unwanted intrusive thought, image, impulse or urge. 

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I realise I will probably have them for life Ashley but when they happen they freak me out.  They freak me out less than they did say 10 years ago but they still freak me out and they ruin the rest of the day as I am convinced Im gay.  I do feel a bit better the next morning like its a clean slate again until the next groinal.   I have groinals whenever I see something like a topless man, good looking guy or something that reminds me of homosexuality.  This response happens 90% of the time when I see something like that. This means they happen once a day (or more) or I might go a number of days without one depending if nothing pops up on tv, facebook, in real life etc.

The last time I had therapy 8-10 yrs ago I had to carry around a picture of a topless man and look at it 10 times a day.  It didnt work.  I developed tolerance to that picture only but would still get groinals to other things in real life or different pics, guys on tv etc..

And having no libido for women is really disturbing.  I wonder ''it cant just be a coincidence''

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3 minutes ago, Dave321 said:

I realise I will probably have them for life Ashley

Not necessarily no, but whilst you are dealing with your OCD for the next few months you have to accept it will happen. If you are willing to accept that they will happen, and are prepared to not 'freak' out when it happens, just accept it happening without trying to question it.  If you can do that (may take practice),  then it might make sense to then start looking at why it happens and what it means.

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16 hours ago, Dave321 said:

Is this some method to get me to accept I'm gay??

No.  Its to get you to understand how OCD works, why the reactions you are having don't mean you are necessarily gay, and how you can improve.

Right now your biggest problem is the extreme reaction you are having to the mere possibility of being gay.  Ashleys post had nothing to do with suggesting you are gay, but your reaction was to accuse/assume that he was secretly trying to get you to accept that.  You're reactions are extreme and its contributing to your problem, its making it worse.

So long as you continue to "freak out" when an unwanted thought or sensation occurs you will only make the problem worse.  If you want to get to the point where you aren't bothered by "groinals" you need to work at not reacting so extremely when they happen.  Because you have treated these as extreme events, your brain has been trained to react to them that way.  When your brain thinks something is a big deal, its more likely to react strongly to that situation.  If you train your brain to recognize the situation as not important, the reactions you are having will decrease.

Currently your pattern of thought is:  IF I can stop the "groinals" THEN I will stop freaking out.  This is backwards.
The correct pattern of thought/behavior needs to be: IF I stop freaking out THEN the "groinals" will decrease.

Overcoming OCD doesn't mean never having an unwanted thought/feeling/reaction.  It means learning to not CARE when these things happen, to treat them as non-events.
You said it yourself:

17 hours ago, Dave321 said:

They freak me out less than they did say 10 years ago but they still freak me out and they ruin the rest of the day as I am convinced Im gay.

Your entire day is ruined, thats an extreme reaction.  You are losing so much quality of life right now.  You are fighting a battle you can't win.  You can't worry yourself out of worrying.  Freaking out isn't going to change things for the better, it will only make things worse.  Spending all your time on this one issue isn't going to change it, it isn't going to fix it, it isn't going to help you in anyway.  If you want it to be less big of an issue, then you have to actively choose to stop treating it as so big of an issue.  That doesn't mean you "accept" being gay, it doesn't mean you like the idea of being gay.  It simply means you stop freaking out about it, you stop making it the central point of your life.  You accept that you can't 100% prove any of it, and you are just going to get on with your life and stop spending so much time on this one area.

The less you feed the OCD by reacting to it, the less powerful it becomes.  If the thought "what if I'm gay" pops in to your head you respond "whatever, thats a meaningless worry" not "OMG NO I'M NOT, STOP STOP STOP".  You don't have to freak out to prove its not true.  I'm not gay, if I notice a handsome guy and have the thought "oh he's a handsome guy" I don't freak out, that doesn't mean I'm gay, it just means I recognize that having such a thought isn't a big deal, that it won't change who I am, its just a thought.  Freaking out only emboldens OCD, it only makes things worse, it only digs you deeper in the hole.  You have to decide to stop taking that path which, again does NOT mean "accepting" you are gay.  It means accepting that your reactions are disordered, that you have a problem called OCD, and these things don't necessarily mean what your first thought reaction (OMG THAT MEANS I"M GAY) is.  I've had those same kind of fears before, fears where I was convinced that my thought or feeling MUST mean something is true.  Its basically never been the case.  That strange feeling in my chest didn't mean I was having a heart attack.  That image that popped up in to my head didn't mean I was going to lose control and hurt myself.  Having a groinal response when a guy was around didn't mean I was gay.  

Step one for you needs to be to stop freaking out, reduce that as much as possible.  Its not helping, its only hurting.

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On 11/09/2019 at 22:05, Dave321 said:

I don't understand your post.  Are you saying I might be gay and homophobic?

I wonder if I am gay and homophobic myself.  I feel nervous and get groinals consistently around men tespecially gay guys or good looking guys and have no libido for women anymore (if I even had libido for women in the 1st place. I am so confused )

Kids can tell if someone is ''different''.  I think they spotted that in me and then I grew up affected by the bullying and didnt want to be gay and so wanted to be straighter than straight.  I did masturbate about girls only and found it really nice.  Did I just have strong hormones as a teen and could get off to anything back then as a result??  Maybe I just didnt know who I was back then??  Maybe I masturbated to women out of heteronormative society and didnt know any better?  Maybe I did it out of choice instead of nature??  I think it was natural but maybe it wasn't and I hadn't ''found myself''?

Gay marriage is legal here but I am in my late 30's now and grew up in the 90's and schools and society was much more homophobic then. Maybe I am a product of that society and I have internalised homophobia? 

I dont know how to convice myself it is ocd if it is.  It just doesnt seem like it is.  I feel like I am a fraud and lying to myself and will be laughed at if I do come out later in life  as gay for being a liar and misleading everyone. 

There are nitty gritty details of my groinals/arousals that I could go into but suffice to say they feel like I am genuinely highly aroused and then this awful shame/depression/anxiety comes over me and shuts it down.  I dont even know if its a groinal or not.

 

 

 

The sequence of OCD thoughts/behaviour and then depression which may include shame and guilt is, I think, a feature of certain manifestations of the disorder because I have experienced it.

When I said to my therapist that I had to check that the communal door to the block of apartments was securely locked at night. She smiled.

I was shocked and offended. I described my fears of being murdered in bed and the reasons for these fears. In terms of recent crimes in the neighbour and the behaviour and reputation of the landlord.  She continued smiling. She started nodding.

I had expected sympathy. She must be heartless. I had expected a concerned expression on her face.

Over a period of time I tried the well tested strategy of delaying the checking and living with the anxiety.

The petrifying fear of being murdered. My body was alert and slightly trembling as I waited for the hammer to smash my body into pieces.

OCD can involve bodily sensations.

I no longer check the communal door. I do lock my own front door at night but do not check.

You have not seen a therapist for ten years. Isn’t it time you started once again?

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On 12/09/2019 at 10:45, Dave321 said:

Is this some method to get me to accept I'm gay??

I think this might be a useful exercise for you to review your comment Dave.

I know Dksea as responded and answered for me really, but I am really interested to understand how my posts led to this question from you?  I am not asking for my sake really, but for you it might help if you can understand where your thinking is going wrong.  Can you go back over your thinking on Thursday to understand your thought process and how you came to this question and more of a conclusion really than a question?

It's a huge leap from what I wrote to this, it may be helpful to understand how you got there.

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Thanks DKSEA and Angst for contributing. 

@Ashley  it was because you mentioned accepting it and learning to calm down before you explaining what it means and why its happening.  I am scared that therapists would get me to calm down by not analysing it etc. and then tell me I'm gay when I can take the news better.

I am currently quite anxious at the moment. I was watching the news and the gay rugby player Gareth Thomas has announced he is HIV positive.  Now I'm scared I am HIV positive from some sexual activity I have had with my last 2 girlfriends.  6 yrs ago I had unprotected sex with her.  And my latest girlfriend I am worried I touched my penis with her vaginal fluid on my hand when putting on a condom. This was only last month.

 

 

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One of the reasons, no one here is suggesting you accept anything, is that your sexuality is not the problem It’s the OCD.

You have jumped from Gay man has HIV, to have I got HIV from unprotected sex, to have I got HIV from protected sex.

Nip this in the bud  you are on the road to worrying about contamination and all that goes with that.

Im reasonably sure that if you did decide you were gay, you would be back here worrying about that too ie; you thought a woman looked nice and now you feel you are a fraud and not “gay enough”.

Its OCD.

its like a parasite that feeds off doubt.

its a doubt Vampire, and it needs you to drive a stake through its heart!

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On 15/09/2019 at 07:15, Dave321 said:

I am scared that therapists would get me to calm down by not analysing it etc. and then tell me I'm gay when I can take the news better.

A few years back I was struggling with the fear that I was going to harm (and possibly kill) myself.  That I would somehow lose control and do it.  I was terrified to tell even my therapist (or any doctor) for fear they would see me as suicidal and lock me away.  The idea that this worst fear might be confirmed delayed me from seeking help.  Eventually I did tell someone and was able to get the help I needed.  I also had a few realizations as part of that.

First, had my worst fear been true, had I truly been a danger to myself, committing me to a mental hospital or some other place would have been the right thing for the doctor to do.  Even though I didn't like that idea, even thought it terrified me, they would have been trying to help me and were that reality true, that would have probably been what I really needed.  Overwhelminingly medical professionals do what they do because they want to help us.  Yes mistakes happen and yes there are bad people out there who do bad things, but more often than not getting helped, even if you are scared of it, is the right thing.

In your case, if your problem really was being gay and not accepting it, the right thing for a therapist to do would be to try and help you do that.  If you are gay then you are, its not something you can change.  It might seem scary and bad, but my fear seemed scary and bad too.  Had it been true I would have been better off getting help and so would you.

Second, fearing something doesn't make it true and medical professionals have often seen a LOT of things and know how to respond and handle them better than we give them credit for.  When I finally voiced my fears, first to a care nurse then to the psychiatrist, neither one even batted an eye.  They were very supportive and helpful but they didn't panic or freak out at my words like I thought they would.  They'd heard it before, they wanted me to get the help I needed and the recognized the difference between OCD and genuine suicidality.  I can't promise ALL medical professionals would react that way, after all they are human too, but I think you'd find that if you talk to someone, especially in the mental health field, that they are going to be a lot better at dealing with this than you think.

 

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On 14/09/2019 at 23:15, Dave321 said:

I was watching the news and the gay rugby player Gareth Thomas has announced he is HIV positive.  Now I'm scared I am HIV positive from some sexual activity I have had with my last 2 girlfriends.

Ok, I can see how the news triggered you, but, was this something you were deeply worried about being HIV positive before you saw the news item?

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@Ashley:   Well it is something that crosses my mind immediately afterwards ever since I started sleeping/fooling around with women.  Age 20 I thought I had gotten hiv from a girl who was a virgin.  I waited 3 months and had a test.  Same thing age 21.  This latest girl is foreign so I am scared she has hiv.  I have always beeen a bit of a hypochondriac.

The rugby players case scares em because I am scared I am like him. Living a straight life as a fraud then having to admit to yourself you are gay and then getting hiv.   I dont wan this to be my life script but its all out of my hands as DSKEA says if I'm gay I'm gay and cant change it.  I dont care if I never do anything gay I just dont want to live with the thoughts and groinals.  I also hate the fact I might be a fraud and have mislead people.

I dont see a point in going to therapy if this is what they will do. ie get me to accept it.

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I am really worried about HIV now as well as being gay.  I slept with a girl 28 days ago and now I have developed the flu.  I have a really bad sore throat and this might be a sign of acute HIV infection which occurs 2-6 weeks after infection.  Acute HIV infection symptoms are flu like symptoms and cant be differentiated from flu.

Also I had 2 groinal responses since my last post.  I got a youtube video recommendation when I logged into youtube and it was some topless guy and I got a nervous tingling and tightening arousal type feeling in my groin.

Then yesterday I had to sit beside a gay guy I know for 30 mins and I kept getting tingling sensation scrotum and  groin.

My life is turning out 180 degrees the opposite of what I want.  Nothing good happens to me.  All my hopes and dreams for life are shattered.  I have to live out this horrible life.

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11 minutes ago, Dave321 said:

Acute HIV infection symptoms are flu like symptoms and cant be differentiated from flu.

That's probably true....

But nearly every illness has the same symptoms as flu...

Including Flu...

So it could be anything.

Do the same thing you would do if you feel ill normally, go and see a doc, if it's bad enough.

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I am feeling anxious because I just flicked through the channels and the gay rugby player with hiv is doing a documentary and its making me uncomfortable with regards 2 things I am worried about. 

Firstly he has the gay finger ratio the same as me so I must be born gay.  I am the same as him. Everyone tells me this finger ratio thing is nonsense yet EVERY gay man I see has it and EVERY lesbian I see has the male ratio. How can it be nonsense??

Secondly talking about hiv is scaring me right now as I am worried I may have it even though logically its probably unlikely.  I have a bad cold at the moment with very sore throat and swollen lymph nodes in my neck and that can be a symptom 2 to 6 weeks after infection.

I am calm but anxious if that makes sense.

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1 hour ago, Dave321 said:

Firstly he has the gay finger ratio the same as me so I must be born gay.  I am the same as him. Everyone tells me this finger ratio thing is nonsense yet EVERY gay man I see has it and EVERY lesbian I see has the male ratio. How can it be nonsense??

Because you are not taking a scientific approach to the problem, you are only noticing it when you want to notice it.  You haven't randomly sampled a selection of gay men to measure their finger ratio to tell if its ACTUALLY happening.  But fortunately for you, other people have, and have scientifically debunked the gay finger ratio for men.  Thats how it can be nonsense.

You, like most OCD sufferers, are very good at looking at a situation and finding the parts of it that match your own expectations.  But you are almost certainly, like most OCD sufferers, ignoring all the ways in which your situations are different.  You are also overestimating the degree to which the similarities mean or prove something.  Things can appear to be related, even when they aren't.  For example, did you know that the annual marriage rate in the US state of Wyoming strongly correlates with the number of domestically produced automobiles sold in the US?  Do you really think that these two things are connected?  That people getting married in Wyoming somehow effects the number of domestic auto sales?  And in your case you don't even have that, there ISNT a correlation between finger ratio and homosexuality in men.  Its just not a thing.  You can continue to believe it, continue to use it to reinforce your anxiety, but that won't make it true any more than the easter bunny will be real just because millions of children believe in it.
 

1 hour ago, Dave321 said:

Secondly talking about hiv is scaring me right now as I am worried I may have it even though logically its probably unlikely.

Thats how triggers work, if its something you are worried about you are more likely to feel uncomfortable when the topic is brought up.  That you feel uncomfortable has zero effect on whether or not something is true.

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Honestly every gay person I have ever seen and every straight person I know conforms to the digit ratio of their orientation.  There are universities all ove rthe world studying it and linking digit ratio to lots of things and the papers are in respected scientific literature.

I think I am just prejudiced and a coward and cant admit to myself I was born gay and that these groinals are attraction and arousal.  I think it might be internalised homophobia.  I hope its ocd.

As for the hiv I havent slept properly the last 4 nights and have a very bad throat, slight temperature and now the lymph nodes left of my groin hurt.

I am doomed. :(

 

 

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