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What would a normal response to this be? (anxious and upset)


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Hi,

We're getting rid of some very old furniture (two sofas, a bookcase and two beds) and replacing them. 

Today we had someone from the council who collects 'bulky waste' come to collect the sofas and a bed. My family had already paid him but my Mum decided to tip him an extra £10. I am really anxious and angry about this because the guy will have been handling other people's disgusting waste items all day and it's very very likely that Mum touched his hand. Other people's waste is allowed to include asbestos, sofas covered in mouse poo or vomit or any other disgusting thing; items from sheds covered in poo or from bathrooms, literally covered in faeces, items with toxic substances on them etc. 

I think a normal reaction is probably just to let it go and i've already over-reacted but I'm so angry and worried about this.

What do you think a normal reaction would be? Would this bother you at all? 

 

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Hi BelAnna,

You have already given the response yourself:

1 hour ago, BelAnna said:

I think a normal reaction is probably just to let it go and i've already over-reacted

That being said, I understand how stressed you feel because I also suffer from contamination OCD and I get how things, which would mean nothing for a non-sufferer, can cause extreme anxiety to us. Do you think that you can let it go for now, leave the worry just be there, and instead do something else to take your mind off it? I recall from previous posts that you have a puppy? Perhaps taking him/her for a walk would help to distract you?

 

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5 hours ago, BelAnna said:

Hi,

We're getting rid of some very old furniture (two sofas, a bookcase and two beds) and replacing them. 

Today we had someone from the council who collects 'bulky waste' come to collect the sofas and a bed. My family had already paid him but my Mum decided to tip him an extra £10. I am really anxious and angry about this because the guy will have been handling other people's disgusting waste items all day and it's very very likely that Mum touched his hand. Other people's waste is allowed to include asbestos, sofas covered in mouse poo or vomit or any other disgusting thing; items from sheds covered in poo or from bathrooms, literally covered in faeces, items with toxic substances on them etc. 

I think a normal reaction is probably just to let it go and i've already over-reacted but I'm so angry and worried about this.

What do you think a normal reaction would be? Would this bother you at all? 

 

The average response? There wouldn't be one. It would be a non-event. 

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12 hours ago, BelAnna said:

I think a normal reaction is probably just to let it go and i've already over-reacted but I'm so angry and worried about this.

What do you think a normal reaction would be? Would this bother you at all? 

A non-OCD reaction would be to not have reacted at all.  For example I don't have contamination intrusive thoughts.  None of what you said would even occur to me, and even when you point it out it still doesn't bother me.

Obviously you still feel anxiety and distress at the situation, thats understandable because of the OCD, but its good you are recognizing that this is an overreaction.

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Wouldn't it be enough to put you at ease for your Mum to wash your hands?????? My parents will attest how fussy I am about them washing their hands if they touch bins, use the toilet, touch our cat etc, but I'm always satisfied if I know they've washed their hands!!! And I'm the type of person who sometimes needs to wash his hands like, four times after defecating!! I'm guessing you might be worried about germs your Mum picked up from the collection man being transferred to other things she touched, and even the tap when she washed her hands?? I think of these things too, but I also think that with the passage of enough time, enough subsequent touches of those things, and enough hand washing, that the germs will dillute to more acceptable levels!!!!!1 After all, they do say the human mouth has more natural germs in it than a dog's mouth, and that living in a TOTALLY STERILE environment would actually do more harm than good for us humans, since our immune systems work by being immunised to things!!!!

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You don’t know if she touched him or not. I call it ghost Contamination. I begin with the actual germs being seen. As I got more sensitive to germs I began imagining them if there was no physical proof. Which is what is happening for you. 

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14 hours ago, STEJ said:

Wouldn't it be enough to put you at ease for your Mum to wash your hands?????? My parents will attest how fussy I am about them washing their hands if they touch bins, use the toilet, touch our cat etc, but I'm always satisfied if I know they've washed their hands!!! And I'm the type of person who sometimes needs to wash his hands like, four times after defecating!! I'm guessing you might be worried about germs your Mum picked up from the collection man being transferred to other things she touched, and even the tap when she washed her hands?? I think of these things too, but I also think that with the passage of enough time, enough subsequent touches of those things, and enough hand washing, that the germs will dillute to more acceptable levels!!!!!1 After all, they do say the human mouth has more natural germs in it than a dog's mouth, and that living in a TOTALLY STERILE environment would actually do more harm than good for us humans, since our immune systems work by being immunised to things!!!!

What you are suggesting is to have another do a compulsion for a sufferer. Not a good move. Doing so is involving others in your OCD, which is like a whole new level for the disorder.

 

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On 10/10/2019 at 14:43, Lollipop said:

To be honest I don't think most people would have thought anything of it, but personally speaking yes it would bother me. 

Thanks Lollipop. Yes I guess we just need to try to respond as most people would! 

On 10/10/2019 at 16:30, margarita! said:

Hi BelAnna,

You have already given the response yourself:

That being said, I understand how stressed you feel because I also suffer from contamination OCD and I get how things, which would mean nothing for a non-sufferer, can cause extreme anxiety to us. Do you think that you can let it go for now, leave the worry just be there, and instead do something else to take your mind off it? I recall from previous posts that you have a puppy? Perhaps taking him/her for a walk would help to distract you?

 

Thanks margarita!- contamination-based OCD does make normal everyday tasks and activities so much more anxiety provoking doesn't it? I do have a lovely dog but unfortunately I have other aspects to my OCD (responsibility-based fears) so I can't actually walk her without help! 

On 10/10/2019 at 20:00, paradoxer said:

The average response? There wouldn't be one. It would be a non-event. 

Thanks Paradoxer!

On 11/10/2019 at 03:05, dksea said:

A non-OCD reaction would be to not have reacted at all.  For example I don't have contamination intrusive thoughts.  None of what you said would even occur to me, and even when you point it out it still doesn't bother me.

Obviously you still feel anxiety and distress at the situation, thats understandable because of the OCD, but its good you are recognizing that this is an overreaction.

Thanks Dksea, yes it was an overreaction and I do find that I'm panicking multiple times a day about contamination triggers, so I need to learn to respond more normally. 

16 hours ago, STEJ said:

Wouldn't it be enough to put you at ease for your Mum to wash your hands?????? My parents will attest how fussy I am about them washing their hands if they touch bins, use the toilet, touch our cat etc, but I'm always satisfied if I know they've washed their hands!!! And I'm the type of person who sometimes needs to wash his hands like, four times after defecating!! I'm guessing you might be worried about germs your Mum picked up from the collection man being transferred to other things she touched, and even the tap when she washed her hands?? I think of these things too, but I also think that with the passage of enough time, enough subsequent touches of those things, and enough hand washing, that the germs will dillute to more acceptable levels!!!!!1 After all, they do say the human mouth has more natural germs in it than a dog's mouth, and that living in a TOTALLY STERILE environment would actually do more harm than good for us humans, since our immune systems work by being immunised to things!!!!

Thanks STEJ!

Welcome to the forum! I'm going to reply to your new post later- I read it and then had some issues editing a reply! I do obsessively ask my family to wash their hands too and I think she did do that automatically anyway but I have fears about 'spreading contamination' and the idea that the germs would be on the sink, door handle etc. My main fear re. standard contamination OCD is of Norovirus (due to my emetophobia), which lasts on surfaces for a month and spreads from item by hand to another item etc. so I fear that surfaces are contaminated for a long time! 

12 hours ago, Handy said:

You don’t know if she touched him or not. I call it ghost Contamination. I begin with the actual germs being seen. As I got more sensitive to germs I began imagining them if there was no physical proof. Which is what is happening for you. 

Thanks Handy. You definitely cannot see germs so I do imagine them transferring from item to item but of course I cannot be sure that things even are as germy as I think they are! 

1 hour ago, PolarBear said:

What you are suggesting is to have another do a compulsion for a sufferer. Not a good move. Doing so is involving others in your OCD, which is like a whole new level for the disorder.

 

Yes that's true Polarbear but to be honest with the severity of my contamination fears simply asking family members to wash their hands (which I do several times each day) is just one of my many normal normal rituals (which include more extreme things like asking family members to wear disposable or rubber gloves, to clean items, to avoid doing certain things etc.) so it wouldn't really be taking it to a new level in this instance BUT I should be working out a normal response, not an OCD response!

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19 hours ago, STEJ said:

Wouldn't it be enough to put you at ease for your Mum to wash your hands??????

No it would not be enough, because it’s never enough. Eventually one washing isn’t enough then you make them wash more. Or you make them wash for more things. Making other people accommodate your own irrational OCD behavior is bad for both the sufferer, because it reinforces the lie that their fear is important in the first place, and for the other person, because it makes them have to live their life in an irrational way too. 
 

19 hours ago, STEJ said:

but I also think that with the passage of enough time, enough subsequent touches of those things, and enough hand washing, that the germs will dillute to more acceptable levels!

Except the acceptable levels were already there to begin with. The OCD sufferer is the one whose signals are broken, you can’t judge what is acceptable by their standards because it’s not coming from a rational place. Part of overcoming OCD is understanding that. 

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5 hours ago, PolarBear said:

What you are suggesting is to have another do a compulsion for a sufferer. Not a good move. Doing so is involving others in your OCD, which is like a whole new level for the disorder.

 

Am I really????? Personally, I think it's personally reasonable to be concerned about a person washing their hands if they've done something kinda unhygienic or disgusting!!!!!! In the last decade or so, I've started to think of people as being generally disgusting in nature, doing things like coughing and sneezing into their hands, then shaking hands with people, or touching things which other people will need to touch, like computer keyboards or door handles!!! That's one of the reasons why whenever I'm out and about, I designate one of my hands (always my left) as my "door opening hand", and the hand I use for other disgusting things which I might have to do, such as picking up coins from the floor or whatever for disabled people who ask me to do so. Even my attraction to women diminishes when I imagine possibly getting a girlfriend, and then kissing her, thinking she might've been kissing her dog or something earlier on, or having the dog licking all around her face!!!!! I mean, it's no wonder so many people are going around, being all noisy and annoying with their frequent coughing, and other signs of bad health, is there???? I think that if everyone was wise and cautious like I am in regards to these matters, then the world would be perfect, and there'd be a whole lot less disease!!!! I know, I sound like I'm going to extremes. Sometimes I've thought I could eventually imagine myself wearing an all-over-body suit anytime I want to go out, you know like in star trek 2: the wrath of khan when khan and his fellow superhumans had to wear these menacing looking suits and face-concealing helmets outdoors because the planet they'd been exiled to became almost uninhabitable?

3 hours ago, BelAnna said:

Thanks STEJ!

Welcome to the forum! I'm going to reply to your new post later- I read it and then had some issues editing a reply! I do obsessively ask my family to wash their hands too and I think she did do that automatically anyway but I have fears about 'spreading contamination' and the idea that the germs would be on the sink, door handle etc. My main fear re. standard contamination OCD is of Norovirus (due to my emetophobia), which lasts on surfaces for a month and spreads from item by hand to another item etc. so I fear that surfaces are contaminated for a long time! 

Thanks for the welcome!!!! ;*D I have issues with door handles, too. Luckily for me, most of the inner doors in my house are sliding doors, but I still avoid touching the handles of them, knowing that my Dad things nothing of doing disgusting things, like touching floors and bins, and then touching the handles as he opens and closes those doors!!!!! To open and close sliding doors, I touch them in a place where they aren't suppose to be touched, and slide them shut that way, rather than touching the handles!!!!! I also detest it when my Mum washes her hands at the sink in the bathroom, but turns the tap off as she puts soap on her hands, leaving used soap on the taps which will still be there if I have to use the sink afterward!!! People might think of these as being excessive, irrational concerns to have, BUT NO ONE CAN DENY HOW COMMON IT IS, PEOPLE WALKING AROUND WITH COUGHS AND COLDS, CAN THEY???  I know that in regards to contamination and germs, I might be sounding more OCPD than OCD, but given the similarity of the conditions, I think it's plausible people can suffer from both! And no, contamination and germs isn't my main OCD theme!!!!

1 hour ago, dksea said:

No it would not be enough, because it’s never enough. Eventually one washing isn’t enough then you make them wash more. Or you make them wash for more things. Making other people accommodate your own irrational OCD behavior is bad for both the sufferer, because it reinforces the lie that their fear is important in the first place, and for the other person, because it makes them have to live their life in an irrational way too. 

I know where you're coming from!!!! I used to ask my Mum to go back to walk up and down the stairs again when she was bringing things to me if I had OCD thoughts that terrorised me while she was en route!!!! I feel guilty about it now, and I'm glad I'm not that bad anymore, but she seemed to find it kinda amusing!!!!! But to be honest, I think it should be common sense for people to wash their hands after doing things which aren't really all that clean!!!!! Now I know that by looking at me, I'm not exactly the poster child for hygiene and cleanliness, and I'll agree! The last time I had a shower was probably years ago, and I haven't cleaned my teeth in maybe, a month or so, either!!!! A lot of this really comes down to self-hatred and my OCD making me feel lazy and mentally-beaten down!!!!!! I'll only brush my teeth and wash various parts of my body, such as my armpits, face and hair at the bathroom sink if I'm going out, and I don't go out often, since I'm so physically unfit, that I get all physically beaten up from walking out, and it takes about two weeks for me to recover each time!!!!! And throughout those two week periods, I have my religious OCD on my back, knowing away at me all the time, meaning that when the two weeks are up and I feel physically ready to go out again, chances are my sleeping pattern will have changed to make it impossible for me to go out, or that my OCD will be making me feel too mentally beaten down to want to go out!!!!!! So yeah, it's weird how I can be so obsessive about cleanliness as far as my hands are concerned!!!!!! Possibly it's because our hands are our main tools for physically manipulating and utilising tools and such in life, aren't they???

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Hi Bel Anna,

I have never had this theme of germs or phobia about contamination. In your situation, I wouldn't have even thought of my mum touching his hand. Even if I had, I wouldn't have done anything about it. So I'd say that the best reaction is to simply do nothing and get on with your day. 

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STEJ, this is an OCD advisory forum. Not some how to cut down on the chance of a cold forum. In order to beat the disorder sufferers have to sometimes be prepared to bend the coat hanger back further, to find equilibrium. Over the top cleaning? For those whose OCD focus is on physical 'contamination' - they can't afford the luxury.  

 

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Sure, washing your hands is part of normal behaviour and everyone does it. However, for those of us with OCD, we have to sometimes realise that we do things excessively and be prepared to throw out these habits in order to get better. Ultimately, you have to ask yourself what the bigger risk to an OCD sufferer is - to not wash their hands and potentially come into contact with a contaminant that their immune system can likely fight off...or to continue doing compulsions and not recover from OCD itself? Besides, in this situation, her mum washing her hands is excessive. Think about what she did, she exchanged cash with a man who disposes of old furniture. This poor man, should everyone who comes into contact with him have to wash their hands because his job involves disposing of old things, which may have some contaminants on them?

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Hi Bel Anna, I do have contamination ocd about feces but I don’t think your situation would bother me at all.  You don’t know where the man had been prior to your house and the situations you imagine sound like a worse case scenario.  It was a really nice thing for your mum to give him an extra £10 so look at it that way, and enjoy your new sofas!

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21 hours ago, PolarBear said:

Well Stej, did you ever think your way of thinking and your actions are way over the top? (Because they are.)

It all depends on one's frame of reference, really. As a rule, if a behavioural process isn't distressing and overly time-consuming to do, then it typically isn't considered OCD, is it???? And personally, I feel like women who shower twice a day could be considered to have OCD if washing one's hands four times after defecating is considered excessive!!!!! I mean, my reason for washing my hands 3-4 times after defecating is because generally, I'm not satisfied with how much my soap is larvaeing during the second wash, and it'll typically take until the third washing before it larvaes like crazy!!!!! I dunno, maybe soap still kills germs even if the larvae rate is poor, but it seems like a risk, especially if you're doing disgusting things like touching toilet handles and seats!!!! And to be honest, given how people at high school and college would always make out that I was A MASSIVE FREAK OF NATURE, well I find it satisfying to be thinking of other people as being "the disgusting, revolting ones" now, and think it'd be funny to leave the house in an all-over body suit, like the world had barely breathable air, just to avoid catching things from people. Who knows, maybe if I get a hot woman some day, I'll forget about all this!!!!!

 

12 hours ago, paradoxer said:

STEJ, this is an OCD advisory forum. Not some how to cut down on the chance of a cold forum. In order to beat the disorder sufferers have to sometimes be prepared to bend the coat hanger back further, to find equilibrium. Over the top cleaning? For those whose OCD focus is on physical 'contamination' - they can't afford the luxury.  

Yeah, but I'm sure like me, there's a percentage of people out there whom are ABSOLUTELY NAUSEATED at the prospect of ingesting the germs of others, and catching THEIR COUGHS, AND THEIR COLDS?????? Especially thinking how the germs have possibly been in contact with their saliva and what not!!!!!! Sorry if this is too much information, but I digress!!!!! I guess I'm ruminating!!!!! And if you're nauseated sufficiently at the thought of becoming ill upon exposure to the germs of others, I'm sure OCD tendencies can arise as a consequence of that!!!!!!

 

10 hours ago, malina said:

Besides, in this situation, her mum washing her hands is excessive. Think about what she did, she exchanged cash with a man who disposes of old furniture. This poor man, should everyone who comes into contact with him have to wash their hands because his job involves disposing of old things, which may have some contaminants on them?

Yeah, but as well as the man in question handling potentially contaminated things, just think about all the hands money passes through, also!!!!!! I used to think nothing of handling money when I was young, but one time in the car, my mum said something about peoples hands smelling of money if they handle it too much, and that was the beginning of my heightened caution in regards to handling money!!!!!! Although I will concede that feelings of depression and what not might lead to these excessive measures of caution I'm liable to employ in regards to germs and contamination!!!!! Plus, at high school and college, people didn't hesitate to tell me I stank up the rooms, so I suppose it's hard for me to be sympathetic if I feel like others out there aren't being as vigilant towards minimising germs and contamination as I am!!!!!! I guess it's my inferiority complex in action, trying to pick out flaws, and score "points" against people!

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1 hour ago, STEJ said:

And personally, I feel like women who shower twice a day could be considered to have OCD if washing one's hands four times after defecating is considered excessive!!!!!

I think it's doing something to avoid having anxiety provoking thoughts. You could shower ten times a day and it wouldn't be OCD if you're doing it just because you enjoy showers rather than to stop feeling anxious.  I would rather wash my hands once or not at all after taking a jobby, than the five, six, seven times I need to at the moment to not feel anxious and even then it doesn't necessarily help.

 

1 hour ago, STEJ said:

maybe if I get a hot woman some day, I'll forget about all this!!!!!

Ha! Maybe.

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Let me just throw this into the mix, OCD fears are invariably not fears at all - at least of the apparent obsession, they're merely the result of something the OCD brain has settled on to trigger anxiety. A 'righteous response' or indignation (I think we've all been there) caused by OCD is just a manifestation of the pain the disorder causes.   

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22 hours ago, Don K said:

I think it's doing something to avoid having anxiety provoking thoughts. You could shower ten times a day and it wouldn't be OCD if you're doing it just because you enjoy showers rather than to stop feeling anxious.  I would rather wash my hands once or not at all after taking a jobby, than the five, six, seven times I need to at the moment to not feel anxious and even then it doesn't necessarily help.

By the time I've washed my hands enough for the soap to larvae sufficiently (three or four times after defecating and two or three times after something less dirty than defecating), I start feeling like I've done all I can to get my hands clean, and that if there's anything left there from whatever I've touched, then I'll just have to live with it, like everyone else does!!!! Sometimes though, I wonder if I can go by how my hands actually FEEL in regards to cleanliness!!!!! After all, they feel noticeably different after you wash them, don't you????

 

19 hours ago, paradoxer said:

Good for you, I hope it all works out. 

Thanks!!!!! I hope the same for you!!!! ;*D

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On 14/10/2019 at 03:52, STEJ said:

And personally, I feel like women who shower twice a day could be considered to have OCD if washing one's hands four times after defecating is considered excessive!!!!!

These are two unrelated events so comparing them is not worthwhile.  The question is not "does activity X take more or less time than activity Y?", the question is "is activity X being done to excess for no good reason?"

Washing ones hands four times after defecating is definitely excessive under most circumstances.  Even if it doesn't take you hours to do so, its still a compulsive behavior that is outside the range of reasonable based on evidence.  You may FEEL, particularly with OCD, that your hands are still dirty or that the soap isn't sufficiently foaming up but that does not mean it is not cleaning. (Side note:  Not sure if English isn't your first language, but just in case "larvae" in English means baby insects/bugs/etc.  Perhaps you mean the word "lather" instead.). One of the keys to overcoming OCD is understanding that you can't rely so easily on how things "feel" when dealing with intrusive thoughts and compulsive behaviors, because the part of the brain that processes such info and gives the all clear signal is not working correctly.
 

On 13/10/2019 at 03:15, STEJ said:

I think that if everyone was wise and cautious like I am in regards to these matters, then the world would be perfect, and there'd be a whole lot less disease!!!! I know, I sound like I'm going to extremes.

The world would not be perfect, it will never be perfect, perfection is an impossibility.  Mean while, you may feel like your behavior is wise and cautious, but evidence and logic demonstrate that its anything but.  There is no evidence that germophobes live longer or get ill less often.  And while proper personal hygiene is important, and behaviors such as washing your hands (once) after using the toilet are important, continued washing, extreme sanitation, etc. doesn't result in better results. Its the law of diminishing returns at work.  Washing your hands well once is going to kill all the bad stuff its going to kill.  Doing it 3-4 more times isn't killing any more viruses/bacteria, those would have been killed the first time.  Its just damaging your skin, making you MORE susceptible to illness, not less.  

While you are, of course, free to live your life under more strict standards if that makes you happy, its still not reasonable to expect others to engage in such extreme behaviors, they are not based on reason or logic, even if you have come to believe so as part of your OCD.

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