Looking for certainty - Fear of Flying (Merged Threads)

[PolarBear]

You don't need more help. We've told you repeatedly what to do. You need to start doing. Less talk, more doing.

[Hal]

Polar’s right Phil, with the best will in the world there’s only so much any of us can do to help each other.  As dksea’s said too, no one’s withholding a vital bit of info from you, you really do have the tools...you need now to not only continue working on reducing the compulsions, but also breaking what I think may have become a bit of a habit, perhaps even a compulsion to post here. 

The forum’s not going anywhere, we will always be here for you, but would it be a good idea to mix things up a little more...experiment for the next day or so with going with what you think you should do rather than asking the community’s opinion? 

At the moment you seem to me to be stuck, and maybe a large part of that’s down to not giving yourself a fighting chance to prove to yourself the expertise you have and what you can do. I want you to reach the stage where when faced with the doubts you’re able to feel much more confident in yourself you’re taking the right course of action.

Please don’t take that as a criticism Phil, it genuinely isn’t, relying too much on the forum’s a very easy trap to fall into. Will you give it a shot and see how you go?

[Phil19]

So yeah I’ve not been doing too well with my contamination ocd of late I will admit that but another issue has been my ocd about fears of flying and fears of going into central London. I avoided the subway for 2 and a half years due to the ocd and anxiety but today I managed to beat the ocd and went into central London. It doesn’t seem a big deal but I had quite a few failed attempts. I can fly but I go through phases of avoiding it I mean I want to take a short flight to Dublin. I have set a target of 2020 to go but I don’t wanna pressure too much. I spent months worrying or even years pondering if I will ever go into central London again. I imagined it and I could see myself doing it but it was always something I wished to avoid due to the news. Again I lost confidence flying due to those Max planes which went out of service. I also dislike the experience of flying I would like to try and beat this worry but I really doubt I could become a frequent flyer. 

[PolarBear]

Good for you for going to central London! Well done! That is exactly the kind of challenging your OCD we have been pushing you to do.

[Phil19]

So what can I do when some of these thoughts take over? I mentioned most of them pass within a few days however ones like the window worry stick around longer? I become obsessed with the windows thinking they are ruined and I need new blinds? I went on that journey like I did with the windows before problem is now do I escape these patterns of worry? I know people say touch the window or blind but I struggle to do so without washing my hands.

Often what happens is I get anxiety these ocd thoughts go on repeat in my head? So I some how not believe the windows are dirty? Problem is when I am not worrying about the windows I am worrying about other ocd issues each day new ones crop up? 

Edited October 31, 2019 by Phil19

[PolarBear]

Phil, we have told you repeatedly what to do. You don't want to listen. You just want to come here and complain about your situation.

[dksea]

2 hours ago, PolarBear said:

Phil, we have told you repeatedly what to do. You don't want to listen. You just want to come here and complain about your situation.

     

[Phil19]

I really want to go to Rome and New York but have a flying fear. I often take the train places. I have flew to Spain and Germany in past 2/3 years but not flew since 2018. The flight to Rome is 30 mins longer than Barcelona and I fear going crazy or not coping on the plane or feeling anxious if I book it? The alternative is pay a fortune to visit by train.

[PolarBear]

So?

[Phil19]

4 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

So?

I give up with this forum. At times I get a great reply usually followed by a sarcastic cheeky response last time they had to remove the comment as it was that insulating. If this is really a useful source for ocd people should be a bit more considerate.

[Phil19]

Last few replies have been we have told you and so. In what way has it helped none atall. Yes I have been told but if that was the case we would all make one single post and leave the forum for good if we had a miracle post to cure us. 

[PolarBear]

2 minutes ago, Phil19 said:

I give up with this forum. At times I get a great reply usually followed by a sarcastic cheeky response last time they had to remove the comment as it was that insulating. If this is really a useful source for ocd people should be a bit more considerate.

Phil, just how long do you think we are going to enable you to use the forum for compulsions before we fight back? We are here to genuinely help OCD sufferers. But we expect those sufferers to at least consider what we are saying. Show us some indication that they are listening.

Do you? I don't believe so. You come here, day in and day out, and post your latest obsessions. Oh, we helped you for the longest time. We explained what was going on and how you could help yourself. More often than not, you ignored what we said and simply posted your next obsession, and the next and the next. And you've been doing this for a long time.

We've told you repeatedly that your constant posting of your obsessions is a compulsion and that you need to work on stopping it. Nothing changed. We've given you good, practical advice, but seldom do you acknowledge it or try what we say.

Do you know how frustrating it is for us? Well, at least for me because I don't speak for anyone else.

At some point, after years working at something and seeing no progress in sight, I have to bow out. Yes, my post above was a bit snarky. I won't do that to you anymore. But I also won't try to help you either. 

The great thing about banging your head against the wall is it feels so good to stop.

If in the future you change your ways and are willing to accept my help and work toward stopping your forum posting compulsion, I'll be glad to help.

[Phil19]

13 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

Phil, just how long do you think we are going to enable you to use the forum for compulsions before we fight back? We are here to genuinely help OCD sufferers. But we expect those sufferers to at least consider what we are saying. Show us some indication that they are listening.

Do you? I don't believe so. You come here, day in and day out, and post your latest obsessions. Oh, we helped you for the longest time. We explained what was going on and how you could help yourself. More often than not, you ignored what we said and simply posted your next obsession, and the next and the next. And you've been doing this for a long time.

We've told you repeatedly that your constant posting of your obsessions is a compulsion and that you need to work on stopping it. Nothing changed. We've given you good, practical advice, but seldom do you acknowledge it or try what we say.

Do you know how frustrating it is for us? Well, at least for me because I don't speak for anyone else.

At some point, after years working at something and seeing no progress in sight, I have to bow out. Yes, my post above was a bit snarky. I won't do that to you anymore. But I also won't try to help you either. 

The great thing about banging your head against the wall is it feels so good to stop.

If in the future you change your ways and are willing to accept my help and work toward stopping your forum posting compulsion, I'll be glad to help.

I had a fear of the London Underground I avoided it for two and a half years and a few days ago I tackled the fear. So yes it’s not a diary I am being pro active I said if I do the subway I can do the flying but I find it hard. I did the subway but still feel some anxiety about the subway. I am trying so it can be frustrating for me as people say I am not. I stopped Cbt as I would rather use the money and do a flight and do it myself. To me this is a positive. Problem is I can often tackle a fear and it never truly goes away. People would say do the London Underground go and do it exposure therapy I done it but in six months it I did it again I may worry again. 

[Phil19]

I also touched the blind chord today so I am being pro active in this disorder but being honest right now I am suffering a lot of anxiety because my head says “just do it” however the reality is doing flying or even the thought of it creates terrible anxiety. It makes you feel you are losing your mind?

[Closed for repairs]

Well done on going to London,  You are probably right , in 6 months you will worry again. I’m afraid is a case of doing it over and over till it’s second nature.

You also have to accept it may never be “perfect”, using the underground and central London is often unpleasant, I doubt if you will ever enjoy it.

But I think you can get over the fear of the fear, you obviously did the other day you used the underground and it was fine.

You seem to have been able to cope with flights fairly recently, you were talking about flying to Dublin, maybe have ago at that, before Rome. I guessing you are ok when you get on the plane it’s the build up between booking your ticket and taking off leaves you to stew in your own juices, getting more and more worked up, giving Your OCD more of a chance to convince you something bad will happen.

The blind cord? Well you have touched it the world kept turning, so do it again and again till it’s boring.

Actually that’s not a bad ambition I’m going to write it in my goals list.

”I want things to be boring not worrying, I want to be irritated not afraid.”

Edited November 2, 2019 by Closed for repairs
Typos, Im sure they appear after I press send

[dksea]

12 hours ago, Phil19 said:

Problem is...

The problem is practically everyday it’s a new “The problem is...” post where you describe your latest obsession and ignore most of what we have been telling you. 
 

Yes, we try and offer you advice, we try and explain how to recover in as many different ways as we can think of to get it through to you, using explanations, analogies, examples from our own lives, examples from your own posts, etc.   

And it always comes back to the same thing. A new “The problem is...” post. 
 

Yes, doing things that are uncomfortable is good. But if you want to get better you can’t just do it once and then quit, which is exactly what you said you did above with the Underground. 
 

12 hours ago, Phil19 said:

I had a fear of the London Underground I avoided it for two and a half years and a few days ago I tackled the fear..... People would say do the London Underground go and do it exposure therapy I done it but in six months it I did it again I may worry again. 

You might worry again. Do it anyway. Do it until the idea of doing it again is no big deal. THAT is what OCD recovery is. Being able to just do stuff. If that’s what you want then you have to do the work. If you don’t want to do the work, fine, that’s your choice. But don’t come here and complain that people are being dismissive when you literally tell us you aren’t willing to do the work. Don’t tell us how the forum is at fault when you repeatedly ignore what we tell you about using these posts for your daily dairy. 
 

if your out of shape and you go for a jog one day, ok good. That’s a start. But if that’s all you do, no one is going to be impressed, nor should they.  Especially if you follow it up by eating an entire pizza. If, on the other hand, you jog 4 days a week, every week for 6 months, then hey, that’s impressive. Same with OCD recovery.  The first step is good, but it’s not going to matter if you don’t take the next step and the next. Recovery from OCD is about sustained change. It’s about making the right choice over and over and over.  If you are willing to do that, great, we will be happy to help you. And no one expects you to do it perfectly. But if you are going to straight up ignore us and tell us outright you won’t do things that are necessary for recovery, don’t expect a lot of sympathy. That’s the brutal, honest, truth. Sometimes helping a person involves sympathy and accommodation, sometimes it involves being honest and blunt. Not because it’s enjoyable, but because it’s necessary. 
 

 

[Phil19]

3 hours ago, Closed for repairs said:

Well done on going to London,  You are probably right , in 6 months you will worry again. I’m afraid is a case of doing it over and over till it’s second nature.

You also have to accept it may never be “perfect”, using the underground and central London is often unpleasant, I doubt if you will ever enjoy it.

But I think you can get over the fear of the fear, you obviously did the other day you used the underground and it was fine.

You seem to have been able to cope with flights fairly recently, you were talking about flying to Dublin, maybe have ago at that, before Rome. I guessing you are ok when you get on the plane it’s the build up between booking your ticket and taking off leaves you to stew in your own juices, getting more and more worked up, giving Your OCD more of a chance to convince you something bad will happen.

The blind cord? Well you have touched it the world kept turning, so do it again and again till it’s boring.

Actually that’s not a bad ambition I’m going to write it in my goals list.

”I want things to be boring not worrying, I want to be irritated not afraid.”

Yes I totally agree. Sometime mentioned keep doing the underground I’m in Scotland so it’s not possible to make frequent trips to London each day. Also flying people only do it now and again so again I can’t It often but I can do it occasionally. Perhaps I am being unrealistic wanting to go from hating flying to enjoying flying then? But let me be honest being on the underground was less scary than the thoughts I get before and after it. Flying is also the same. I took the last flight and I said I’m never flying again Duno why the flight was fine my ocd just makes a big deal of it. Being shut in, plane safety, feelings of general anxiety. I will be honest I had a panic attack on the train I have a fear of boats and long train journeys so I believe I have more of a travel anxiety. This surprises many people as I get around a lot but I can be getting around but feel like **** if that makes sense?

[ivybasil]

7 hours ago, Phil19 said:

 I will be honest I had a panic attack on the train I have a fear of boats and long train journeys so I believe I have more of a travel anxiety. This surprises many people as I get around a lot but I can be getting around but feel like **** if that makes sense?

It makes sense, but recovering from OCD, I think, means learning to just 'be' with that uncomfortable feeling and not give into what OCD or anxiety wants you to do to make the feeling go away. 

I've only just started working through CBT, so maybe someone with more experience will be able to articulate it better than me, but I think it's okay to be scared and uncomfortable, and it doesn't matter if you call it OCD or travel anxiety. It just matters that you use any recovery tools you've learnt to be in the presence of the uncomfortable feeling, accept it, and don't respond as OCD might want you to.  

It's okay to feel fear and anxiety. Recovery depends on how you respond to it. 

(I'm new both here and to CBT methods, and totally happy to be corrected if anyone with more experience/knowledge disagrees with this. This is just how I've understood what I'm trying to achieve myself, and wanted to share in case it helps!) 

[Phil19]

An update 

I have beaten my anxiety and transferred in my job to another shop. I have battled lots of solipsism and ocd themes and anxiety but in past week I have done this and went on the underground in London. Now I have transferred in past but not for 4 years so it’s a bit achievement as the anxiety brews up. I am trying to not let it win perhaps I can tackle my fears of driving tests, college and flying next?

[Phil19]

I am feeling a bit anxious about the new job as I don’t start until Monday has anybody got any tips? 

[Phil19]

I have begun to worry about the tarmac on the street. Reason is the bin where I put a toilet plunger went out on the street. My fear is if I buy say a new sofa or something like a table the bin germs and toilet germs will spread into my house? It may seem trivial in my old house I was able to unlock the toilet with my hands however in this house I couldn’t. In my work they had plungers too but they kept them in the toilet I now fear because I chucked mine away the germs are on the street like if the birds go into the bins they are spread these germs too? Course my shoes already tred over this ground so these germs may be there already. Also who knows the plunger was maybe never at the bottom of the bucket but I still fear this bin and can’t bring any shopping home the day the bin goes out?

Edited November 10, 2019 by Phil19

[Phil19]

I have become obsessed lately about bins as my partner went to the bins touched the hand soap but it hit the blind so I worried the whole windows could become contaminated if I clean them all. Next up the wheelie bin I put a toilet plunger in the bucket I thought little of it other then than a fear of going near if however I’ve been thinking deep how the tarmac on the ground could become contaminated and of say I buy a new sofa or table delivery men may hit the ground and spread the germs. Sure I stand on that ground leaving the house daily as do many others but I don’t think of it that way sure my shoes have same germs but and sure the bin has plastic coating protecting the germs but I see it as forever contaminated and I worry if I buy new furniture I will worry?

I have the same fear if I ever have to replace my bathroom suite I worry where the plumber would put the old toilet? Perhaps it’s safer to never replace stuff?

 

[Phil19]

Anybody help? I fear the tarmac has toilet plunger germs on it as the bin contained that. Anything that comes to the house in a delivery may contain germs?

[dksea]

4 hours ago, Phil19 said:

Anybody help?

Phil, we have offered you help repeatedly.  We've given you advice on what to do and you choose not to listen to us.  If you want to know what to do, re-read what we've written multiple times here and in other threads.  What we said then is what we'd say now.  No sense repeating ourselves more than we already have.

[Phil19]

I moved jobs as mentioned but I’m not enjoying it. Part of the reason I wanted to move was to push myself out the solipsism bubble to prove I can make a choice as a sort of exposure therapy. I did this with the subway too and I never enjoyed the experience so my question is why do I feel regret and anxiety about pushing myself? My head says one thing do what you fear but if I don’t enjoy it I wonder do I really want to say fly somewhere or is it just an excuse to see if I can do an exposure or perhaps I just dislike the anxiety I feel? I feel I need a safety blanket I need the anxiety to keep me safe? Any advice would be great as right now I fear moving jobs was a bad idea!