Looking for certainty - Fear of Flying (Merged Threads)

[Phil19]

Anybody have this issue? Whether it be worrying if I am clean or solispism? For example if my partner touches a bin and I don’t see her in wash her hands I instantly worry she hasn’t washed them or the germs spread it I don’t witness it? 

[PolarBear]

All OCD sufferers seek certainty. What they have to get used to is the fact thst they can't have it.

Your partner shoild NEVER wash her hands because you want her to.

[Handy]

You know I call is ghost Contamination cause I can’t be sure. Asking for reassurance from your partner if she washed her hands just strengthens the reaction.  So one learns to not react. 

[paradoxer]

3 hours ago, Phil19 said:

Anybody have this issue? Whether it be worrying if I am clean or solispism? For example if my partner touches a bin and I don’t see her in wash her hands I instantly worry she hasn’t washed them or the germs spread it I don’t witness it? 

Is the Pope ... etc.

Incidentally, OCD sufferers have no more need of certainty than anyone else, if it doesn't pertain to their obsession.  

[Phil19]

I am annoyed as today my mum gave me money and a thought popped into my head that it came from her money Tin and im sure she put it on top of it he wheelie bin where she dumped blocked toilet content. This is how my ocd seems to operate random thoughts from over 4 years can pop into my head as she gives money usually and I don’t think twice. 

[dksea]

16 hours ago, Phil19 said:

This is how my ocd seems to operate random thoughts from over 4 years can pop into my head

Yes, we all understand that this is how OCD operates, not just yours but everyones.  If you want to get past this you need to stop doing things that feed it, like posting things where you detail your current worry.  You are not helping yourself when you do this.  The details don't matter, whether you are worrying about your moms money, or your partner touching a bin, or any other event.  The response is the same for all of them, don't engage in compulsions, let the thought be, ride out the anxiety, move on with your life.  Repeat that over and over until it becomes automatic, until you don't respond to the thought anymore.  Reinforce the good, desired behavior, avoid the bad, negative one.

 

[Phil19]

17 hours ago, dksea said:

Yes, we all understand that this is how OCD operates, not just yours but everyones.  If you want to get past this you need to stop doing things that feed it, like posting things where you detail your current worry.  You are not helping yourself when you do this.  The details don't matter, whether you are worrying about your moms money, or your partner touching a bin, or any other event.  The response is the same for all of them, don't engage in compulsions, let the thought be, ride out the anxiety, move on with your life.  Repeat that over and over until it becomes automatic, until you don't respond to the thought anymore.  Reinforce the good, desired behavior, avoid the bad, negative one.

 

Yes I get that but that’s how people without ocd operate. I have an need to be clean I don’t want Bin germs or blocked toilet germs on my items. I prefer stuff to be clean so how can I overcome this need?

[dksea]

On 16/10/2019 at 05:30, Phil19 said:

Yes I get that but that’s how people without ocd operate.

Its also how people who recover from OCD learn to operate.
 

On 16/10/2019 at 05:30, Phil19 said:

I have an need to be clean I don’t want Bin germs or blocked toilet germs on my items. I prefer stuff to be clean so how can I overcome this need?

You don't actually have that need.  You have fears and anxieties about it, but if you never engaged in a compulsion again for the rest of your life you'd be better off.  You can't achieve absolutely certain, you can't achieve absolute cleanliness, those are impossible goals.  You might as well say "I need to have a unicorn that can talk and fly", its equally realistic of a need.
And you overcome it by doing the things we have recommended for you to do.  To not engage in compulsions, to accept that your "needs" are unrealistic and stop trying to achieve them.  To force yourself to do things that give you anxiety and ride it out, through ERP etc.

We aren't hiding anything from you, there is not some secret we only tell to people who prove they are desperate enough.  Recovery from OCD is fairly straightforward (though it takes patience and persistence).  lf you really want to do something concrete, something specific, something tangible, the best thing you could do is too go touch a bin right now and then do nothing about it.  Will you feel anxiety? Almost certainly.  Will you want to wash your hands?  Probably desperately.  Do you have to?  Nope, you don't have to at all.

You have to change your behavior first THEN the thoughts will change, not the other way around.  If you keep waiting for your thoughts to change before you do things differently then you'll probably be waiting until you die.  Ultimately its up to you.

[Phil19]

Sadly another situation has come up. My partner skimmed the kitchen blind after going to the wheelie bin it was either hand soap which hit the blind or her hand or both but I now worry the entire window and blind is contaminated. This is how my ocd seems to operate I have not replaced everything but like the coffee table my mum touched dirty laundry then my table handle so I won’t touch the handle now. So yes this is the issue I was replacing luckily not so much now it’s more avoiding stuff? 

[paradoxer]

On 14/10/2019 at 20:02, dksea said:

Yes, we all understand that this is how OCD operates, not just yours but everyones.  If you want to get past this you need to stop doing things that feed it, like posting things where you detail your current worry.  You are not helping yourself when you do this.  The details don't matter, whether you are worrying about your moms money, or your partner touching a bin, or any other event.  The response is the same for all of them, don't engage in compulsions, let the thought be, ride out the anxiety, move on with your life.  Repeat that over and over until it becomes automatic, until you don't respond to the thought anymore.  Reinforce the good, desired behavior, avoid the bad, negative one.

 

I had to smile at the slightly weary tone here ... and who can blame you?

[PolarBear]

1 hour ago, Phil19 said:

Sadly another situation has come up. My partner skimmed the kitchen blind after going to the wheelie bin it was either hand soap which hit the blind or her hand or both but I now worry the entire window and blind is contaminated. This is how my ocd seems to operate I have not replaced everything but like the coffee table my mum touched dirty laundry then my table handle so I won’t touch the handle now. So yes this is the issue I was replacing luckily not so much now it’s more avoiding stuff? 

Stop avoiding stuff. It's that simple.

[Phil19]

14 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

Stop avoiding stuff. It's that simple.

Yes the issue is I will avoid touching the blind chord and I will avoid cleaning that side of the window this is really how it is it’s a real struggle?

[PolarBear]

I realize it's a struggle but it's only a struggle because you think and behave wrong to the thoughts. You react to the thoughts, doing compulsions. That only makes your situation worse.

[dksea]

1 hour ago, Phil19 said:

Yes the issue is I will avoid touching the blind chord and I will avoid cleaning that side of the window this is really how it is it’s a real struggle?

Phil, the issue is you have OCD and you are continuing to engage in behavior that strengthens it.

Yes its hard, yes its a struggle.  Telling us that isn't going to change anything about your situation.  You've told us "The issue is..." more times than I can count on your previous threads.

Every time we tell you the same things.  Thats not going to change, because the solution isn't going to change.  Recovery requires you to do things that you find unpleasant, that you don't want to do, and possibly that you can't even imagine yourself doing today.  Thats understandable.  You don't have to do it all at once.  But if you want to get better you have to start doing it and keep doing it.  You have to build up to be working up to doing the harder stuff.

And you have to stop posting detailed explanations of what your latest worry is.  Its NOT HELPING.

[paradoxer]

5 hours ago, dksea said:

And you have to stop posting detailed explanations of what your latest worry is.  Its NOT HELPING the sanity of other forumers. .

Apologies to dksea. Fixed. 

[Phil19]

Yes but I touched the blind chord and I worry my phone has bin germs now as I never washed my hands. This would be a so called exposure and it makes things worse I even touched the top of the chord to be sure but that wasn’t enough to avoid worrying? 

[PolarBear]

So what? Do it again. And again.

Coming here to tell us what your latest obsession is, is not working for you. You need to do something; something different.

[Phil19]

4 hours ago, PolarBear said:

So what? Do it again. And again.

Coming here to tell us what your latest obsession is, is not working for you. You need to do something; something different.

Yes but I’ve said before the bins are not clean nobody here can make them clean so if you have germs worries it will be a trigger. 

[paradoxer]

2 minutes ago, Phil19 said:

Yes but I’ve said before the bins are not clean nobody here can make them clean so if you have germs worries it will be a trigger. 

The trigger isn't the problem. If you have OCD there will always be triggers. 

[PolarBear]

20 minutes ago, Phil19 said:

Yes but I’ve said before the bins are not clean nobody here can make them clean so if you have germs worries it will be a trigger. 

It doesn't matter if the bin is not clean. Your fear is irrationsl and, frankly, ridiculous. If I could, I would come over and lick your bin.

[Phil19]

7 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

It doesn't matter if the bin is not clean. Your fear is irrationsl and, frankly, ridiculous. If I could, I would come over and lick your bin.

Yeah but people tend not to bin take and take there rubbish back inside also there is germs exist in bins. I know people say it’s fine it’s just a bin but it’s not as clean as other stuff. 

[paradoxer]

1 hour ago, Phil19 said:

Yeah but people tend not to bin take and take there rubbish back inside also there is germs exist in bins. I know people say it’s fine it’s just a bin but it’s not as clean as other stuff. 

'It's your choice, be as 'clean' as you like, but you'll never live a life, and don't go on about it. 

[dksea]

4 hours ago, Phil19 said:

but it’s not as clean as other stuff. 

So what?  It doesn't have to be.  You can live your life without that bin EVER being 100% clean, or even as clean as something else.

You have two choices.  
1. Learn to live in the world as it is, imperfect, unsterile, sometimes dirty.
2. Continue to suffer by trying to create an impossibly perfect world around you.

So which is it going to be?

[dksea]

BTW, 

If you choose path 1, we are MORE than happy to help you move towards that goal.

If you choose path 2, then continuing to post the same things over and over here is rather selfish.  You don't have to be perfect in your path to recovery, none of us are, not even close.  But you need to at least by willing to try.  If you aren't going to do that then there's no point in us responding to your posts.  Its a waste of everyones time.  Please consider that.

[Phil19]

19 hours ago, dksea said:

BTW, 

If you choose path 1, we are MORE than happy to help you move towards that goal.

If you choose path 2, then continuing to post the same things over and over here is rather selfish.  You don't have to be perfect in your path to recovery, none of us are, not even close.  But you need to at least by willing to try.  If you aren't going to do that then there's no point in us responding to your posts.  Its a waste of everyones time.  Please consider that.

I have been able to control my urge to replace stuff but it tends to mean I keep the item and avoid using it. Is that a win? Well I don’t have the expense of a new item bad news is I avoid the item I need more help with this ?