Jump to content

Recommended Posts

My 22 year old daughter has contamination ocd. I used to manage it well with her but for the past 3 weeks it has gone worse. 1 to 3 hours in the shower. She has to shower after going to the toilet. Then once in the shower I have to de contaminate the place. Floor toilet radiator. Then she comes out quickly dries herself down there but is convinced she peed herself (1 drop) and goes back in. It can happen 3 times. For example today it happened twice but she ignored it. And went to work. But still for her she is contaminated. So tonight all her clothes will have to be washed. Everything she touches will be contaminated. For example she will ask me to wash and change my clothes if she think I touch something she walked past. Like she went upstairs and they were clothes on the railing. She walked past them but she thinks that pee magically goes everywhere. I touched the clothes so I am contaminated. It's very hard. I keep on telling her it's not rational but she really believes in it. I told her that she wouldn't be able to paint a wall with a drop of pain and she knows that so how can a drop of pee dripping on your leg (if it's there) is going to contaminate a whole room. She made me clean all her clothes in her wardrobe because she said she was looking for something so her hands touched everything. I told her her hands were dry but there's no point. I believe you need to repeat ocd sufferers that it's all lies until it clicks. But I'm wondering if medication would reduce the symptoms?  I keep on washing towels and underwear a lot. Because everytime she Stepps back in the shower I have to give her a new towel and underwear.she really goes to the extreme in her thinking. 

Link to comment

Hi Powerless, welcome to the forum :)

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter's struggles and the impact they are having on you. I had similar contamination issues at 22 and would also wash for hours. I know how exhausting it is to do and to watch. 

Has your daughter had any help for her OCD? The recommended treatment is a talking therapy called Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT). In England you can either self-refer to your local IAPT or your gp can refer you. Take a look at the OCD-UK website for more information. 

https://www.ocduk.org/overcoming-ocd/accessing-ocd-treatment/

Medication can also be prescribed by a gp but the most it's likely to do is make your daughter's anxiety more manageable. Not all sufferers choose medication because of side effects and it can take a while to find the right one so it's best discussed with a gp. 

I highly recommend the self-help book Break free from OCD. It takes you through what happens in CBT and helps explain what maintains OCD. 

Your daughter can get better. If you have more questions, don't hesitate to ask :)

Link to comment

Two things to mention...

She has to want to get better in order for therapy to work. If she doesn't, there isn't much to be done.

All the extra cleaning you do for her is actually making her worse. That cleaning is a compulsion. They are done to try and alleviate the anxiety she feels. But they don't work. Soon enough, she gets more thoughts of contamination, which requires even more compulsions. It's an endless circle. And, doing compulsions reinforces the belief in her head that contsmination exists.

Link to comment
11 hours ago, PolarBear said:

Two things to mention...

She has to want to get better in order for therapy to work. If she doesn't, there isn't much to be done.

All the extra cleaning you do for her is actually making her worse. That cleaning is a compulsion. They are done to try and alleviate the anxiety she feels. But they don't work. Soon enough, she gets more thoughts of contamination, which requires even more compulsions. It's an endless circle. And, doing compulsions reinforces the belief in her head that contsmination exists.

I agree with you but how do I tackle this? if for example I don't clean the floor she will refuse to leave the shower and will get very distressed?

 

I have to spoken to her in length about contamination that the transfer of one drop of urine is absolutely impossible, that it cannot go everywhere but she is conviced. People with OCD see things we do not. So is there something in the brain which is not working? can medicine change that?

Link to comment
On 23/10/2019 at 10:54, Gemma7 said:

Hi Powerless, welcome to the forum :)

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter's struggles and the impact they are having on you. I had similar contamination issues at 22 and would also wash for hours. I know how exhausting it is to do and to watch. 

Has your daughter had any help for her OCD? The recommended treatment is a talking therapy called Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT). In England you can either self-refer to your local IAPT or your gp can refer you. Take a look at the OCD-UK website for more information. 

https://www.ocduk.org/overcoming-ocd/accessing-ocd-treatment/

Medication can also be prescribed by a gp but the most it's likely to do is make your daughter's anxiety more manageable. Not all sufferers choose medication because of side effects and it can take a while to find the right one so it's best discussed with a gp. 

I highly recommend the self-help book Break free from OCD. It takes you through what happens in CBT and helps explain what maintains OCD. 

Your daughter can get better. If you have more questions, don't hesitate to ask :)

Thanks for  your reply she saw a councellor but really what she did was talking to her, not much more than me.

I thought she would have done cbt but she did not.what about TMS does it work?

She has an appointment with a psychiatrist specialised in OCD next week. At this stage I think she needs medication to relax her.

Link to comment
13 minutes ago, Powerless said:

She has an appointment with a psychiatrist specialised in OCD next week.

Well that sounds like a step in the right direction.

The most difficult thing for you will be to be in a situation where you want to reassure her but must not.

Reassurance doesn't work, if it did we wouldn't keep needing it.

It's going to be baby steps,  and hard work. But it will be worth it.

I'll second Gemma's recommendation of Break Free From OCD, It's got some useful stuff to help families and friends.

Good luck

Link to comment
13 minutes ago, Powerless said:

I agree with you but how do I tackle this? if for example I don't clean the floor she will refuse to leave the shower and will get very distressed?

I think pulling your help right now is not going to help your daughter. Making her aware that you've learnt that compulsions make OCD worse when she asks you to do them, might be a better place to start. It's really important she begins to learn this herself too. Would you consider going to the OCD-UK conference in November, it could be a great opportunity to hear from experts in the field, learn more together and meet people with similar issues? 

17 minutes ago, Powerless said:

So is there something in the brain which is not working? can medicine change that?

There is no evidence to say that something in the brain isn't working. There are known differences between the brains of sufferers and non-sufferers but it is unknown if these are cause or effect. Medicine for OCD is usually in the form of Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs). These affect the amount of serotonin in the gaps between nerve cells. For some sufferers this change in brain chemistry lowers there anxiety and allows them to engage better with CBT. 

18 minutes ago, Powerless said:

she saw a councellor but really what she did was talking to her, not much more than me.

Counselling is very different to CBT and therefore it's not surprising it had little affect. Seeing a CBT therapist is paramount. 

22 minutes ago, Powerless said:

what about TMS does it work?

Evidence is limited and I would not recommend it at all before trying CBT. 

You can request a young person's guide to OCD from OCD-UK, this might help your daughter feel less alone and start her on the path to recovery. 

http://www.ocduk.org/teens/

Link to comment
12 minutes ago, Closed for repairs said:

The most difficult thing for you will be to be in a situation where you want to reassure her but must not.

Sorry,

To clarify a bit, totally agree with Gemma, about not suddenly pulling your help.

8 minutes ago, Gemma7 said:

I think pulling your help right now is not going to help your daughter. Making her aware that you've learnt that compulsions make OCD worse when she asks you to do them, might be a better place to start. It's really important she begins to learn this herself too

This is much more helpful than what I said....

Link to comment
6 minutes ago, Gemma7 said:

I think pulling your help right now is not going to help your daughter. Making her aware that you've learnt that compulsions make OCD worse when she asks you to do them, might be a better place to start. It's really important she begins to learn this herself too. Would you consider going to the OCD-UK conference in November, it could be a great opportunity to hear from experts in the field, learn more together and meet people with similar issues? 

There is no evidence to say that something in the brain isn't working. There are known differences between the brains of sufferers and non-sufferers but it is unknown if these are cause or effect. Medicine for OCD is usually in the form of Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs). These affect the amount of serotonin in the gaps between nerve cells. For some sufferers this change in brain chemistry lowers there anxiety and allows them to engage better with CBT. 

Counselling is very different to CBT and therefore it's not surprising it had little affect. Seeing a CBT therapist is paramount. 

Evidence is limited and I would not recommend it at all before trying CBT. 

You can request a young person's guide to OCD from OCD-UK, this might help your daughter feel less alone and start her on the path to recovery. 

http://www.ocduk.org/teens/

where is the conference?

For the time being how can I help her?I think she has phantoms sensations, when she gets out of the shower we all have to be silent so "she can concentrate" she will put her underwear quickly then she is convinced she felt a drop of pee running down her leg. and she will go back, this morning she had a 40 minutes shower so she was pleased but still felt the drop. So the other issue is that she prays 5 times a day so of course if she is impure she cannot pray.

My main question is how do i reduce my help . because now she is asking me to wash and change my clothes

Link to comment
30 minutes ago, Closed for repairs said:

Sorry,

To clarify a bit, totally agree with Gemma, about not suddenly pulling your help.

This is much more helpful than what I said....

sorry what do you mean by "pulling your help" (english not my first language)

Link to comment
Just now, Powerless said:

sorry what do you mean by "pulling your help" (english not my first language)

I just ment not suddenly stopping helping.

I probably shouldn't have tried to clarify my first post, but I worry about being misunderstood, then go over the top explaining myself, (like now), it's a compulsion sorry.

Link to comment
11 minutes ago, Closed for repairs said:

I just ment not suddenly stopping helping.

I probably shouldn't have tried to clarify my first post, but I worry about being misunderstood, then go over the top explaining myself, (like now), it's a compulsion sorry.

its funny how after 7 hours after finishing her shower she is still thinking about it.

so now she said she peed herself after the shower when she put her underwear on, she went through a pile of clothe sin the spare romm and so did it and she asked me to take a jumper from her wardrobe.

now she told me I have to rewash all the clothes in the small room , in the wardrobe, clothes behind the door, handles, chair , desk, the duvet cover in the small room, all items in kitchen, basically everywhere she has been, as if the pee has transferred everywhere, how can someone has irrational thoughts like this?

Link to comment
21 minutes ago, Powerless said:

where is the conference?

The conference is in Northampton, England :)

21 minutes ago, Powerless said:

For the time being how can I help her?

I would look into getting her a therapist and while waiting I would get the self-help book and start working through it together. There's no quick method unfortunately. 

The phantom sensations you mention comes from focusing too much on if she has pee on herself. If she feels something which might just be a normal feeling, she wants to wash just in case it is pee. 

Link to comment
3 minutes ago, Powerless said:

now she told me I have to rewash all the clothes in the small room , in the wardrobe, clothes behind the door, handles, chair , desk, the duvet cover in the small room, all items in kitchen, basically everywhere she has been, as if the pee has transferred everywhere, how can someone has irrational thoughts like this?

If the washing gets too much you might have to simply refuse with the reason that you think there is no reason to clean everything and it is making her OCD worse. Expect that this will upset her incredibly but unfortunately, you might have to pick a point to stop. My advice in this instance is to offer her as much support and comfort you can that isn't compulsive.

These thoughts come from fear and fear is not rational. 

Link to comment
5 minutes ago, Gemma7 said:

If the washing gets too much you might have to simply refuse with the reason that you think there is no reason to clean everything and it is making her OCD worse. Expect that this will upset her incredibly but unfortunately, you might have to pick a point to stop. My advice in this instance is to offer her as much support and comfort you can that isn't compulsive.

These thoughts come from fear and fear is not rational. 

I have already told her that many times, that im dry, clothe are dry, theres no wetness, but still she is so convinced, plus she will say that if i dont wash she will have no clothes so she cant go out to work or she will not come home

Link to comment
1 minute ago, Powerless said:

I have already told her that many times, that im dry, clothe are dry, theres no wetness, but still she is so convinced, plus she will say that if i dont wash she will have no clothes so she cant go out to work or she will not come home

Ok well can you come up with a way she won't touch a load of clothes every time she feels contaminated. Otherwise she will continue to ask you to wash them, because unfortunately as long as she is doing compulsions, OCD will only get worse. 

(It's important to note that I only recommend this as short method before she starts CBT so that you can live your lives.)

Link to comment

No, you don't want to just stop your extra cleaning. As bad as things are for you now, it would be much worse if you just suddenly stopped.

Slowing down and stopping your involvement in her compulsions needs to be done as part of therapy.

 

Link to comment

Powerless. so sorry you're going through it with your daughter, I know for loved one's it can tax their own sanity. Tough love is the only way to go, to acquiesce to her demands will only lead her deeper into the mire. Don't let her, or the disorder, 'blackmail' you. 

Link to comment

Hi powerless,

I don't have anything to add advice-wise. Gemma's is all excellent. I just wanted to say that I was once where your daughter was at now. Showering took me about 7 hours a day, not to mention a whole bunch of other stuff that took me additional hours. I could hardly function and my family was very worried. 

16 hours ago, Powerless said:

She has an appointment with a psychiatrist specialised in OCD next week. At this stage I think she needs medication to relax her.

That is great that you are going to an OCD specialist. I found medication very helpful for me to do the CBT and saw so much improvement once i was able to engage with CBT.

I agree with Gemma about getting the self-help book. Whether you end up getting a counsellor or not who understands CBT methods for OCD, it'll just be so helpful to understand how OCD works and how CBT addresses it. It'll probably really help your daughter to understand that what she's experiencing is a common OCD experience too.

Link to comment

Thanks everybody it is so hard. I am so tired and so sad. Yesterday I told her I cannot carry on rewashing everything and she must think if she's contaminated before touching anything and then telling me to rewash it. She agreed. I keep all her clothes in a spare room. She's not allowed to go. And when she's ready she can transfer back in her room. But how to gradually reduce my involvement. Because now she's telling me to wash and change my clothes and if I touched something belonging to her she would ask me to rewash it. For the book can you provide me with the exact details or is it it on Amazon? 

6 hours ago, leif said:

Hi powerless,

I don't have anything to add advice-wise. Gemma's is all excellent. I just wanted to say that I was once where your daughter was at now. Showering took me about 7 hours a day, not to mention a whole bunch of other stuff that took me additional hours. I could hardly function and my family was very worried. 

That is great that you are going to an OCD specialist. I found medication very helpful for me to do the CBT and saw so much improvement once i was able to engage with CBT.

I agree with Gemma about getting the self-help book. Whether you end up getting a counsellor or not who understands CBT methods for OCD, it'll just be so helpful to understand how OCD works and how CBT addresses it. It'll probably really help your daughter to understand that what she's experiencing is a common OCD experience too.

 

Link to comment
8 minutes ago, Gemma7 said:

The self-help book is called Break Free from OCD: Overcoming Obsessive Compulsive Disorder with CBT by Dr Fiona Challacombe, Dr Victoria Bream Oldfield and Professor Paul Salkovskis. It is on Amazon :)

Thanks I ordered it now. Now she has been in the shower for 90 minutes. She started at 9.30.at 10 she told me to do the rituals cleaning. At 10.40 she got out. Me next door not saying a word. Then she said I couldn't do it meaning she peed herself. She's back in now. Then I noticed her stress levels are increasing and she can be aggressive in her tone. That's when she starts counting more when she washes. Now my question is. How can I help her getting out of this shower. 

Link to comment
6 hours ago, Powerless said:

hanks everybody it is so hard. I am so tired and so sad. Yesterday I told her I cannot carry on rewashing everything and she must think if she's contaminated before touching anything and then telling me to rewash it. She agreed. I keep all her clothes in a spare room. She's not allowed to go. And when she's ready she can transfer back in her room. But how to gradually reduce my involvement. Because now she's telling me to wash and change my clothes and if I touched something belonging to her she would ask me to rewash it. For the book can you provide me with the exact details or is it it on Amazon? 

I really feel for you Powerless. I put my family through such hell when i was at my worst. I can remember even knowing on one level that nothing I was doing was logical, but I just couldn't break the pattern until i was on medication and working through CBT in a very gradual way. People have said on this forum a few times how the battle with OCD is a marathon rather than a sprint. It is something worthwhile to keep in mind. Rituals will not stop overnight and so we need to just start putting things in place to start things in the right direction. You've ordered the book, so that's great. You've got an appt with the psychiatrist, you are finding ways to at least reduce your stress load by keeping the clothes in a separate place so you don't have to rewash them.

Once you get the book maybe you and your daughter can read it together when she is not at the height of stress. That's what I did. I would go through all my grueling rituals and then at the end of the day, when they were finally done, i would read and work on the book. Slowly i was able to start reducing rituals. It will take time.

In the meantime try to find ways to help yourself relax and take time away from the stress of it all.

Link to comment
8 hours ago, leif said:

I really feel for you Powerless. I put my family through such hell when i was at my worst. I can remember even knowing on one level that nothing I was doing was logical, but I just couldn't break the pattern until i was on medication and working through CBT in a very gradual way. People have said on this forum a few times how the battle with OCD is a marathon rather than a sprint. It is something worthwhile to keep in mind. Rituals will not stop overnight and so we need to just start putting things in place to start things in the right direction. You've ordered the book, so that's great. You've got an appt with the psychiatrist, you are finding ways to at least reduce your stress load by keeping the clothes in a separate place so you don't have to rewash them.

Once you get the book maybe you and your daughter can read it together when she is not at the height of stress. That's what I did. I would go through all my grueling rituals and then at the end of the day, when they were finally done, i would read and work on the book. Slowly i was able to start reducing rituals. It will take time.

In the meantime try to find ways to help yourself relax and take time away from the stress of it all.

We came home. She was tired so just used the toilet. Convinced she peed her self. Went to sleep in living room and send me this text

1. Laundry: clothes in my room, small room, duvet, any clothes or fabrics you touched in ayoubs room. Front towels in first shelf.

Take your shower and dress.

2. Mop corridor downstairs and upstairs and stairs.

3. Bathroom handles, bathroom wall and taps.

4. Towel cupboard handles and railing.

5. Wipe my desk, chair, desk draws, handles, light switch, floor, inside my bed draws, wipe curtains and radiator.

5. Wipe bathroom bath and side of the bath and taps. 

6. Your duvet in your room and floor and anything you touched when you came in.

7. Living room  door and handles, wall where plants are, laundry holder, floor, carpet, cushions, couch. 

7. Kitchen table and items. Kitchen couch. Kitchen radiator . Corridor floor and radiator. 

Back to square one. She was crying and swearing at me even. She's increasing her demands. Even the cat was not allowed in. Cat went in and she was distraught because cat walked out of living room. I had to mop again.... Its 1.30 am waiting for the wash to finish. 

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...