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Trying not to engage but it's too hard


Guest Paul92

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I know I've posted quite a bit over the last few months, only this is the worst thing ever.

Just so worried about thoughts. Are humans just robots? Just a product of our brains? Do we even pull things strings and have free will? Seems to me that we don't.

Is it only me who finds this soul destroying (literally, haha).

To think that everyone you know and love is just a robot. Just a brain, which is lots of random activity. Actions are just the results of the brains response to inputs. There is no 'you' pulling the strings.

You can't think a thought before you have thought it... they just appears.

Trying my best not to engage, but it seems so logical.

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We cannot engage with your OCD by trying to answer your questions or discussing your obsession.

I encourage you to try and set this aside. You are under no obligation to figure this out. You've been trying to figure this out for a while and gotten nowhere. More rumination will only keep you where you are.

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10 hours ago, Paul92 said:

Just so worried about thoughts. Are humans just robots? Just a product of our brains? Do we even pull things strings and have free will? Seems to me that we don't.

If there is no free will, worrying about it won't change anything, it doesn't matter because "knowing" the answer won't change anything, you have no choice no matter what.
If there is free will, worrying about it won't change anything, because you already have free will and knowing that won't change your free will.  So it doesn't matter whether you know if you have free will or not. So no reason to worry about it.
 

11 hours ago, Paul92 said:

Trying my best not to engage, but it seems so logical.

I understand that you feel this way, that this is your fear, but there's nothing logical about it.  OCD is twisting up your conclusions and influencing the outcome of your thoughts.

Live your life, you don't have to (and can't even if you tried) answer this question.

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Thanks guys. It's such a hard time at the moment. I'm really doing my best to just not engage with it.

The whole confessing thing is not easy. Though, I haven't confessed anything to my current GF. 

I'm still at work and my GF has organised a nice evening in for when I get home. She's ordering food and grabbing us some drinks. We're celebrating something.

But about an hour ago, a student at the uni at which I work came in to renew some books. She's an attractive girl no doubt. Every time I talk to an attractive girl I have to focus my mind on something so as not to think anything unfaithful, or not to give any certain body language signals.

For instance, I feel like I can't smile at someone because I don't want to think I am smiling at a girl to make myself seem presentable and nice to the girl. Like I don't want to feel as though I am doing it to make them like me.

And about an hour ago, as the girl was leaving I said bye and I made eye contact. Sometimes I make eye contact just so I don't seem rude. Or even sometimes, without really noticing, I will just look at a girl if she is attractive. But then I realise what I am doing.

My head feels as though I made eye contact with her to give that signal of interest, if that makes sense? But it was only after that I worried what my intentions were. I wouldn't consciously do that. But what if I did? Like if I just forgot for a moment?

Am I a bad person?

I feel like I have ruined my night. I honestly love her to pieces and never want to have a thought that is unfaithful to her. I would never cheat on her. But isn't making eye contact, if I did in the way that I might, be considered cheating? I feel awful. I'm not even sure I was thinking anything at the time, I really don't know but I feel like I did something wrong.

I have got zero interest in anyone else, obviously or else I wouldn't be trying to distract myself every time I have to talk to an attractive girl. Like I don't even want to do anything slightly unfaithful.

I feel terrible.

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4 hours ago, Paul92 said:

Every time I talk to an attractive girl I have to focus my mind on something so as not to think anything unfaithful, or not to give any certain body language signals.

No you don't.  This is a rule you are creating for yourself.  A black and white, absolute rule.  Non-OCD people don't behave this way.  OCD-people (like myself) who don't have cheating related intrusive fears don't act this way.  Smiling at someone is not cheating.  Having a thought that a girl is attractive is not cheating.  It's not either/or.  Its not all or nothing.  You can (and should) still interact with people other than your girlfriend/fiance/wife/etc on a regular basis, its normal. Obsessing over it, avoiding it, ruminating on it, thats OCD.  All these things you do to avoid even the slightest tinge of "cheating" are compulsions and they are going to help keep you trapped in OCD hell as long as you do them.  You are holding yourself to an IMPOSSIBLE standard.  Thats not healthy or normal or good.  Its not going to make you a better boyfriend or a better person.  If you want to be better you need to stop playing by OCD's rules, and understanding that what you are doing now is the exact wrong way to deal with OCD is a start.

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@dksea @paradoxer

Thank you for your replies. I just wish I could see it from an outside perspective. I'm sure you appreciate that when it has hold of you it so difficult to even function.

I've had one worry that has been bothering me a few weeks now and it won't fade. I've not even ruminated on it or anything. I just feel terrible.

My girlfriend was talking about moving in with me one day. She has a dog. And I told her that I would let the dog move in and live with us too, rather it staying at her mum and dad's. I know how much the dog means to her.

Now, honestly, I don't mind the dog coming, but I would prefer it not to. Whilst I love the dog to pieces, I just don't know if I am a person who would own a dog as I don't like to be tied down with it.

And then I was sat thinking and I thought something along the lines of "The dog might only live another ten years anyway, so it won't be here forever". Immediately I panicked and felt awful. If she knew I'd thought something like that, what would she think?

SHe honestly loves the dog more than anything. And I love the dog too. I just don't know if I really want the dog to move in, but it is something I am willing to accept for her. But then I thought that.

Is this actually something I should confess? That I actually thought, "well the dog might only live ten more years, and then it'll be gone". I would NEVER want anything bad to happen to the dog. I love her, she's lovely.

I am so sick of this. I feel like a terrible terrible person.

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I reread that previous post and I don't think I explained myself very well.

I actually don't mind the dog coming. I am just a bit apprehensive about it and if, deep down, I am honest about it, I'd prefer not to have a dog. However, I would have her here, for sure. She means the world to my GF and I want her to be as happy as possible.

I just don't know why I thought that. Maybe it was a genuine thought. Like I was actually thinking that one day it'd die and then I'd be more comfortable. But then I immediately felt awful. I really didn't mean it. I don't want anything bad to happen to her, I love the dog to bits, she's adorable. It's just another thing actually living with a dog, it's a big commitment that scares me a little.

Was it just my mind trying to find a way out of it? I don't know. But I feel like it was a genuine thought. I just hate myself sometimes.

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2 hours ago, Paul92 said:

@dksea @paradoxer

Thank you for your replies. I just wish I could see it from an outside perspective. I'm sure you appreciate that when it has hold of you it so difficult to even function.

I've had one worry that has been bothering me a few weeks now and it won't fade. I've not even ruminated on it or anything. I just feel terrible.

My girlfriend was talking about moving in with me one day. She has a dog. And I told her that I would let the dog move in and live with us too, rather it staying at her mum and dad's. I know how much the dog means to her.

Now, honestly, I don't mind the dog coming, but I would prefer it not to. Whilst I love the dog to pieces, I just don't know if I am a person who would own a dog as I don't like to be tied down with it.

And then I was sat thinking and I thought something along the lines of "The dog might only live another ten years anyway, so it won't be here forever". Immediately I panicked and felt awful. If she knew I'd thought something like that, what would she think?

SHe honestly loves the dog more than anything. And I love the dog too. I just don't know if I really want the dog to move in, but it is something I am willing to accept for her. But then I thought that.

Is this actually something I should confess? That I actually thought, "well the dog might only live ten more years, and then it'll be gone". I would NEVER want anything bad to happen to the dog. I love her, she's lovely.

I am so sick of this. I feel like a terrible terrible person.

Everyone has thoughts like that - and far 'worse'. It's normal,  and it's nothing. What's not normal, in fact it's downright weird is the notion of having to confess it. For God's sake, it's far better to be a 'terrible person', than a whimpering whimp, which you'd be if OCD had its way. 

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@paradoxer Is it normal though? Or was I thinking so selfishly that I was looking forward to the dog dying so we didn't one. That's why I immediately panicked. I actually properly love the dog. I'm just apprehensive about having one as I like freedom to do what I want when I want etc. I don't like having many commitments because getting through a day is hard enugh as it is. I immediately felt terrible. I don't really know why I thought it. But I did.

I would have the dog for her and never mention that I am a bit apprehensive. I love the dog. I don't want anything bad to happen to her. And I'm sure once I got used to having a dog, I'd really love it and get on board with it.

To be honest, I told her that I post on an OCD forum and I think she might have even read some of my posts. I'm scared to death that I am going to scare her off. But I don't think she'd understand. Was it just my mind exploring something for a moment? I don't know but it is driving me crazy.

I think my GF will get really fed up with all this. I need her more than she needs me and I think deep down she knows that. I can't believe I would ever think something so awful.

I honestly cannot ever see how I could forgive myself or just let this go. Maybe she has to know and then she can make her mind up whether she even wants anything to do with me or not. I think that might only be the fair way to go on.

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Yes it is normal I’ve had worse thoughts than that this morning.

Look living with someone is a compromise they do things that annoy you, you annoy  then, you like and dislike different things.

its not compulsory to “love” the dog  its probably better if you don’t hate it. It’s a dog it will cope with the disappointment.

feed it, walk it, play with it and it will be fine.

Forgive yourself for what,?you haven’t actually killed her dog, you have just considered two possible futures one with dog, one with out, you look like you have come down on the side of  having a dog.

 

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21 minutes ago, Closed for repairs said:

Yes it is normal I’ve had worse thoughts than that this morning.

Look living with someone is a compromise they do things that annoy you, you annoy  then, you like and dislike different things.

its not compulsory to “love” the dog  its probably better if you don’t hate it. It’s a dog it will cope with the disappointment.

feed it, walk it, play with it and it will be fine.

Forgive yourself for what,?you haven’t actually killed her dog, you have just considered two possible futures one with dog, one with out, you look like you have come down on the side of  having a dog.

 

Firstly, thank you for your post.

I know it's a compromise. Like I'd be willing to have the dog live with us. I do really love the dog, she's lovely. And I know how much she means to my GF. She loves her more than anything.

I've never owned a dog properly, and I am just apprehensive about losing that freedom and the commitment. I try and make my life as easy as possible now and I don't really want extra worries. That said, I would let it come to mine with her and I would do everything I could for her. I think it's nice to be able to do something for someone even if you're not completely into it. Actually, a part of me thinks it would be really nice once I got used to it. Just got a few nerves that's all.

I really hope that it doesn't matter what I thought.

Surely it can't be my true nature if I am feeling like this about it? Was I just really selfish for a moment? My God I'd never want anything bad to happen to the dog. So why did I think that?

I sat there and thought the dog was two so probably will only live for another 10 years. At least, that is what I think I thought.

I feel like if she knew it'd destroy her and possibly us, because she'd be bound to think that I have a secret evil streak or something.

I feel absolutely destroyed by this. To the point where I'm even considering just telling my GF she'd be better off without me.

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10 hours ago, Paul92 said:

 

I sat there and thought the dog was two so probably will only live for another 10 years. At least, that is what I think I thought.

I feel like if she knew it'd destroy her and possibly us, because she'd be bound to think that I have a secret evil streak or something.

I feel absolutely destroyed by this. To the point where I'm even considering just telling my GF she'd be better off without me.

Everyone 'self calculates' - don't be a weirdo, or try to be some saint, even the saints aren't. Your feeling 'absolutely destroyed' has nothing to do with morality. and everything to do with a mental disorder. You know, it dawns on me that all these cognitive insights you're receiving from others are only serving to get you deeper into the mire. Next time around, I'll offer the line - that maybe you are a terrible person, one of the worst in the world, and should accept that possibility. 

Now, mate, get a grip. 

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14 hours ago, Paul92 said:

Surely it can't be my true nature if I am feeling like this about it? Was I just really selfish for a moment? My God I'd never want anything bad to happen to the dog. So why did I think that?

I sat there and thought the dog was two so probably will only live for another 10 years. At least, that is what I think I thought.

I feel like if she knew it'd destroy her and possibly us, because she'd be bound to think that I have a secret evil streak or something.

I feel absolutely destroyed by this. To the point where I'm even considering just telling my GF she'd be better off without me.

Just to reiterate what Paradoxes is saying above, you are taking this situation to an absurd extreme.
You've gone from a stray thought about the future to breaking up with your girlfriend and believing you are an evil person.
Trust us when we tell you, you are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...(deep breath)...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over exaggerating things here!

OCD demands absolutes, it demands certainty.  If you want to break free from OCD you need to work on accepting that things are not absolute or certain.
NO ONE is 100% altruistic, and its not normal to try to be.  All of us balance our selfish desires with selflessness.  Theres a normal range, and there's an unhealthy range to each, but having even SOME selfish thoughts is by no means unhealthy or unnatural.  
Just this morning my best friend made a joke to me about leaving her toddler at the fire station after a particular rough evening.  We both had a good laugh, she let off a little steam.  Its a joke.  We know that she wouldn't ACTUALLY do that, even if she had the thought that not having to deal with his tantrums would be nice.  Thats NORMAL.  No one loves an obligation, be it a partner, a child, a parent, a pet, 100% of the time.  We get frustrated, we get tired, we are HUMAN.  Parents dream about the day their kids go off to school/move out even while dreading that day and wishing their kids would stay young forever.  Life is complicated, people are complicated.  Holding yourself to an impossible standard is a bad idea :)

Work on reminding yourself that you don't have to be perfect, and even when these thoughts give you anxiety, that doesn't mean you are a monster. Your brain is a little broken.   You have a disorder, called OCD, that causes you to feel excess anxiety, you have to remind yourself of that and not assume that anxiety == real trouble.  

 

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43 minutes ago, dksea said:

NO ONE is 100% altruistic, and its not normal to try to be.  

And I'd also add that there's nothing altruistic about OCD, it's about the most selfish of disorders (OCD's siren call), its 'morality' or 'doing the right thing' solely an attempt by the sufferer to remove anxiety and 'guilt' from themselves. 

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7 hours ago, dksea said:

Just to reiterate what Paradoxes is saying above, you are taking this situation to an absurd extreme.
You've gone from a stray thought about the future to breaking up with your girlfriend and believing you are an evil person.
Trust us when we tell you, you are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...(deep breath)...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over exaggerating things here!

OCD demands absolutes, it demands certainty.  If you want to break free from OCD you need to work on accepting that things are not absolute or certain.
NO ONE is 100% altruistic, and its not normal to try to be.  All of us balance our selfish desires with selflessness.  Theres a normal range, and there's an unhealthy range to each, but having even SOME selfish thoughts is by no means unhealthy or unnatural.  
Just this morning my best friend made a joke to me about leaving her toddler at the fire station after a particular rough evening.  We both had a good laugh, she let off a little steam.  Its a joke.  We know that she wouldn't ACTUALLY do that, even if she had the thought that not having to deal with his tantrums would be nice.  Thats NORMAL.  No one loves an obligation, be it a partner, a child, a parent, a pet, 100% of the time.  We get frustrated, we get tired, we are HUMAN.  Parents dream about the day their kids go off to school/move out even while dreading that day and wishing their kids would stay young forever.  Life is complicated, people are complicated.  Holding yourself to an impossible standard is a bad idea :)

Work on reminding yourself that you don't have to be perfect, and even when these thoughts give you anxiety, that doesn't mean you are a monster. Your brain is a little broken.   You have a disorder, called OCD, that causes you to feel excess anxiety, you have to remind yourself of that and not assume that anxiety == real trouble.  

 

I see what you're saying but when you're in the middle of it, it's hard to let it go. It's been a while now and its not getting any better. I actually do feel terrible. 

I actually say there and calculated how long the dog would be living for. Was I looking forward to the dog dying? I don't know. I just know I thought it might live another ten years. 

She'd be mortified if she knew. Clearly I don't want any harm to come to the dog. I just was a bit apprehensive about having it. 

I really hope this doesn't matter. Do you think I'm being unfair if I don't tell her? Do you a girl would leave me over this? 

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Two things, 

Everybody has thoughts like this,

We don't tell anyone!

We don't say

God your kid is ugly,

Or I think about having sex with your wife.

Should you tell your girlfriend that you are calculating the life span of your dog?

You are a big boy make your own decision, it's fairly easy to guess what we all think, but asking us what to do is reassurance seeking.

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1 hour ago, Closed for repairs said:

Two things, 

Everybody has thoughts like this,

We don't tell anyone!

We don't say

God your kid is ugly,

Or I think about having sex with your wife.

Should you tell your girlfriend that you are calculating the life span of your dog?

You are a big boy make your own decision, it's fairly easy to guess what we all think, but asking us what to do is reassurance seeking.

Thanks for your reply :)

Yes, I understand that. Isn't it just a horrible thing to think? It's really selfish. I was being really selfish. To actually consider how long the dog might live. I know how much the dog means to her. I just feel like if she knew I'd thought that she would be mortified and she would think I am a secret psycho or something. 

I just thought how long the dog would live for, because at the time a part of me wasn't actually too keen on the idea of having the dog move in too. So yes, I was probably thinking about how long it would be until it died. Which is just horrible. 

Immediately I panicked and realised what I'd thought because I was scared whether I was actually wanting the dog to die for my own benefit. This isn't the case. I love the dog and having thought about it more, I think it wouldn't be so bad if it moved in. I just feel terrible for having that thought and I am scared that if she knew, my GF wouldn't want to be anywhere near me.

It's hard to look her in the eye like everything is fine if I consider that if she knew, she'd probably want nothing to do with me. 

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9 hours ago, Paul92 said:

Thanks for your reply :)

Yes, I understand that. Isn't it just a horrible thing to think? It's really selfish. I was being really selfish. To actually consider how long the dog might live. I know how much the dog means to her. I just feel like if she knew I'd thought that she would be mortified and she would think I am a secret psycho or something. 

I just thought how long the dog would live for, because at the time a part of me wasn't actually too keen on the idea of having the dog move in too. So yes, I was probably thinking about how long it would be until it died. Which is just horrible. 

Immediately I panicked and realised what I'd thought because I was scared whether I was actually wanting the dog to die for my own benefit. This isn't the case. I love the dog and having thought about it more, I think it wouldn't be so bad if it moved in. I just feel terrible for having that thought and I am scared that if she knew, my GF wouldn't want to be anywhere near me.

It's hard to look her in the eye like everything is fine if I consider that if she knew, she'd probably want nothing to do with me. 

OK, here it is - the adage about doing the same thing and expecting the same result, let's keep it sane. So this forumer's upping the ante. 

It's pretty apparent to me, that you are a terrible selfish person, it's patently clear that good people never think like that. And you have to just accept that fact. 

Edited by paradoxer
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It really is the gift that keeps on giving. 

So for ages my mind has been trying to attack me about my girlfriend's sister. Trying to make me think something sexual about her so then I'll feel terrible and have to confess. I always get these intrusive thoughts during sex or whatever and I do my best to bat them away. 

I have no sexual interest in her sister. I don't find her attractive if you sit and show me a photo of her. Nothing. Maybe sometimes she looks slyghtly attractive in one way or another (not to be judgemental) but I'm really genuinely not at all. She's a lovely person, she's great. But I'm not attracted to her 

So this morning I woke up and my head kept forcing thoughts and images into my head. A couple of times I had a thought about her sister like coming on to me and I tried to bat it away but I'm worried that a tiny part of me felt a bit aroused and carried on the thought voluntarily. 

I can't distinguish between an involuntary thought and one that I just imagined on purpose. It used to be a thing where I'd imagine something to test my reaction. Or I'd imagine it already as a kind of "haha I bet you to it", to show I'm not bothered. 

So yeh now I am pretty worried I had a couple of weird sexual thoughts about her sister! Who I actually don't even find attractive. 

This happened in one of my relationships about 10 years ago. At that time, I did find her sister attractive and I thought something a couple of times. In the end I ended up confessing. It destroyed the girl at the time and from then on it pretty much went down hill. So I always swore I'd never repeat it. 

But I jst can't work out exactly what I was thinking. 

I'm supposed to be meeting my girlfriend later and we are having a bit of a day out. But I just know I'll be thinking about this all day. 

I really don't know what I'm meant to do. Can I even hold down a relationship like this? I really don't want to be confessing everything to her but I can't seem to see a way whereby I don't tell her about stuff like this. 

She is hugely understanding about my OCD and she knows it's for the best that I don't confess things. She gets it. But to think I had some thoughts about her sister, that'd kill her wouldn't it? 

So sick of it. It's been attacking me for ages about her sister and I kinda feel like it's finally got me. I was really battling trying not to feel anything but I think for maybe a split second I enjoyed the thoughts. 

Yes that's what it is, for a split second I'm scared I enjoyed the thoughts and carried it on. God I'm awful. I wouldn't mind, but it makes zero sense because I'm actually not attracted to her sister in the slightest. Really nothing. 

What do I do? 

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5 minutes ago, paradoxer said:

Paul mate, try not to fill up the forum with this rubbish. The forum is intended to help sufferers overcome OCD, not to facilitate rhetorical bo**ocks.   

Thanks for the support. Clearly this isn't ocd then... 

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15 hours ago, Paul92 said:

Thanks for the support. Clearly this isn't ocd then... 

Or it is OCD and you are engaging in a host of compulsive behaviors in this post AND the other one you posted where you basically confessed the same thing.

 

 

16 hours ago, Paul92 said:

What do I do? 

I'll echo what PB said in your other post, what do YOU think you should do based on what we have said before?
If you want to recover from OCD you need to start applying the advice you are given and making these decisions yourself.  
This is a perfect opportunity to try that.  Re-read your post, pick out the compulsive behaviors.  
Tell us what you think the best course of action for someone suffering from OCD should be in this situation.
 

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@dksea I know I shouldn't confess, but I don't see how it isn't an issue.

Finding it really hard at the moment. Like if I have a sexual thought or feeling about another woman I feel terrible. Also if I am talking to another woman at work and I am thinking about them at the same I have this groinal twinge (this just started happening more recently, whenever I talk to someone attractive I seem to have to focus on what my groinal area is doing and not think anything at the same time), I feel like Ive done something really unfair to my girlfriend.

Also the past times when I have thought something about other women, I feel really unfaithful and cut up. I've told myself from today onwards I wont think anything sexual about anyone else. Sure ill find people attractive but ill leave it at that.

I am sick to death of it. I love my GF and I tired of this trying to mess everything up constantly.

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