Took a break

[don't know]

What does it mean though? If I was 'looking' for it it would be fair enough. But in this case it literally just happens, no thought or anything behind it. Thats what I find so troubling about it. Again, I'm sorry for being so difficult. 

Edited November 14, 2019 by don't know

[Caramoole]

The nature of OCD is that we are driven to find explanations & concrete evidence before we can believe it's OCD.  Sadly, it will always throw up another question, another doubt, another "But why?", "But how can I be sure?".  It doesn't (and won't) help by constantly answering those questions.

Be brave and see your GP again and ask to be referred to a specialist who can help you start to overcome this disorder.

[dksea]

9 hours ago, don't know said:

What does it mean though? If I was 'looking' for it it would be fair enough. But in this case it literally just happens, no thought or anything behind it. Thats what I find so troubling about it.

I understand that you are troubled, definitely understand that.  

I also understand that you don't want/aren't trying to have these thoughts or feelings.  Thats not what I mean when I say you are looking for evidence.  By looking for evidence I mean you are looking to confirm a specific reason why you are having these feelings, that you are looking for things that back up your fear.  This is a common behavior among OCD sufferers (of which I still believe you are one).  I've directly experienced it myself, assuming certain thoughts or situations MUST mean X, when in fact Y or Z were much more likely.

Its like someone who has headaches assuming they have a brain tumor.  They research brain tumors and they "relate" to people on brain tumor support forums who experience headaches.  They spend all their time assuming their worst fear is true and keep looking for "proof" that it is, even when that "proof" is pointed out by others to not even be accurate.  Meanwhile they ignore the differences between themselves and actual brain tumor sufferers. Its easy to find "evidence" you can always find SOME similarities. "See, this person who has a brain tumor said they hate broccoli and *I* hate broccoli too!  I can relate to them so much, that means we must be the same!".  But of course most people experience headaches and its not big deal, further for some people for whom it does become a big deal (say they have migraines), its STILL not a brain tumor in the vast majority of cases.

The "evidence" you have used to convince yourself is a combination of subjective judgement ("I can relate to their posts"), questionable logic, and misunderstandings of information about alternatives (such as OCD).  Even if one were to accept the idea that some people are pre-wired to be more incestuous than others (a questionable premise to begin with, I could not find any mainstream psychological definition for such a phenomenon), there exist other, better explained alternative such as OCD to explain your situation.

People, particularly those with mental illness, are often very bad at diagnosing their own problems.  Why? Because we lack objectivity.  Our judgement about ourselves is inherently subjective.  We tend to overvalue our feelings and undervalue reason and logic.  Thats particularly true of OCD sufferers.  The whole problem with OCD is that we have a flaw that hijacks our ability to respond reasonably to certain thoughts.  We quite literally can not think straight on those topics.  Even if your fear is correct and this is NOT OCD, I'm trying to get you to understand that you are inherently ill equipped to make an objective, reasoned diagnosis.  Thats not because of you individually, it's because of the human condition.  It's true regardless of whether your problem is OCD, an inherent inclination towards incest, or something else.

Regardless of what your underlying issue or issues are you SHOULD see a mental health professional. Why?  Because your quality of life is suffering right now.  Maybe you are right, maybe there is nothing that can be done, thats possible I suppose, but what if there IS something that can be done?  Wouldn't it be great to be able to improve your life, even a little bit (and maybe a lot?). And I understand you probably fear that your worst conclusion could be confirmed.  Its natural to be afraid of that.  But if its true, its true anyway and right now you are already suffering as if it were true.  You are in no better place NOT knowing then you would be knowing.  In fact, even in the worst case scenario, knowing would allow you to move forward in some way, it would allow you to make more reasoned, more reasonable decisions.  You are, believe it or not, trapped in the worst of all possible worlds right now.  You are afraid of being more afraid, but ironically you are ALREADY in the hell you imagine you might be.  Its like being afraid to run out of a burning building because you might catch on fire, without realizing you are already ON fire, and getting out is the only way you can get LESS on fire.

[dksea]

10 hours ago, don't know said:

What does it mean though? If I was 'looking' for it it would be fair enough. But in this case it literally just happens, no thought or anything behind it. Thats what I find so troubling about it.

I realize my above post strayed a bit from discussing the looking part, so an addendum.  What I mean by looking is not that you are looking to have these thoughts, its that you are looking for the reason when you DO have these thoughts.  And you are assuming that merely having them confirms your feared reason.  The thing is, we KNOW for a fact that when people fear something, when they actively try to avoid a certain  thought or idea, that they are MORE likely to experience or encounter it.  This is actually true beyond just fear.  The more "important" a thought or idea is to you, for good OR bad, the more likely you are to notice it, or encounter it.

For example, if you have strong thoughts about say, dogs, either you are afraid of them, or you love them, you are much more likely to think about them, to notice them in the world around you, to experience thoughts related to dogs.  Maybe you have a bad encounter with a dog, say one attacks you.  Afterwards you will probably notice dogs a LOT more out in the world.  Has the world changed? Is there suddenly an overflow of dogs?  No, of course not, you just weren't paying any particular attention to them before because they weren't that important.  This happens all the time.  Our brains can't possibly notice every detail around us with the same care and importance, we'd be overwhelmed.  So our brains automatically filter out what is "unimportant" and focuses on what is "important".  This is how you can work in a location with lots of noises that might annoy someone who only is there occasionally, but you barely notice.  It becomes background noise to you, but not to them.  

The fact that you have and/or notice these incest related thoughts a lot is perfectly explained by having a FEAR of those thoughts.  By strenuously wanting them NOT to be true, you are, in fact, making them more likely to occur.  its paradoxical and frustrating but thats just how the human brain works.  People, like me, who aren't particularly bothered by those type of thoughts don't go through life NEVER having them, we go through life not particularly caring when they pop in because we know they aren't important.  We are busy walking down the street not particularly worrying about the occasional dog we see, while you are walking right next to us, panicking every time you see one and pointing them out.  Our risk of dog attack isn't higher because you are noticing them, its the same as it ever was (not much).  You are suffering from a faulty belief in a much much higher risk than is reasonable and you are using the very fear that CAUSES that belief as the reason FOR the belief.  Its circular logic.  "If I'm afraid of it, it must be true.  It must be true because I'm afraid."

You CAN break out of the spiral of flawed logic and cognitive distortions, but likely not on your own.  Not because you in particular are "weak", but because the problem is hard to solve on our own.  You wouldn't try and diagnose and treat a broken bone on your own (unless you happened to be trained orthopedist, and even then its a bad idea to treat yourself), why would you believe you can diagnose and treat a mental illness on your own?  There's a reason people go to school to learn how to help people with these situations, its because they aren't easy.  You deserve to have help, you deserve to have happiness.  Why not give yourself a better chance at the latter by seeking out the former?

[malina]

19 hours ago, don't know said:

What does it mean though? If I was 'looking' for it it would be fair enough. But in this case it literally just happens, no thought or anything behind it. Thats what I find so troubling about it. Again, I'm sorry for being so difficult. 

It's also about how you interpret information and many times people with mental health conditions are wired to notice or interpret information in a way that confirms their negative thoughts or mood. It's not something they do consciously though, it happens outside of their awareness. This is why compulsions in OCD are such a bad thing to do, because the disorder wires you to zoom in on information that confirms your fear and disregards alternatives. So when people with OCD do things like Google their symptoms, they will always find some information that fits with their experience and will then panic and think they have whatever it is that they are afraid of. 

A while back, you said that there was all this evidence that OCD can come true for a lot of people and that it takes a simple Google search to find this evidence. So I actually did the Google search mainly out of curiosity to see what I'd find. I personally didn't see anything shocking or anything that I didn't know before. Maybe I didn't look hard enough or didn't find the same information as you did, but it could also be that we saw the same things and interpreted them differently. 

As DKSEA says, a great deal of your evidence is also very subjective, (it doesn't feel like OCD to me), but then it doesn't to anyone who has the disorder. Hence, the reason they suffer so much. You said yourself that you read other people's posts and want to tell them that it is OCD, but they themselves cannot see it and it's because they are using a similar logic to you, to them it doesn't feel that way. You also have very extreme criteria for what counts as a valid mental health problem. For example, you say that you are down, even suicidal, yet you also say that you cannot be experiencing depression because you aren't sad all the time. People who have depression aren't sad all of the time either. You also often describe physical symptoms like sweating, feeling sick etc but then say "I don't even feel anxious", while what you often describe is anxiety. Do you impose the same strict criteria on "sexual deviancy"?

I am not trying to convince you that you have OCD or depression or anything. I don't know you and I'm also not a mental health professional. However, you are clearly suffering a lot from something that is psychological in nature. However you want to label your condition, you can't overcome it without support. Mental health problems are valid health problems. If you had pain in your body for example, you'd see a doctor for treatment. You are experiencing emotional pain, and there are doctors who specialise in this. Your first therapist was clearly misguided though, I hope that your time on this forum has taught you that not all people with OCD need to wash their hands constantly  So you need to find a specialist (via your GP) who can give you proper treatment. 

[malina]

With all of the above, there are a few other things to consider. Firstly, you have really tied in these experiences with your sense of self and who you are. You think that having unwanted sexual thoughts makes you a bad person, that it is your 'nature' and that you cannot have the life you wanted because of this. I think at one point you even said that you can't have a job because of this. I think you need to disentangle this, having unusual thoughts or physical experiences doesn't make you a bad person. This happened to you but you didn't ask for it and you shouldn't have to compromise your own life and what you get out of it because of something like this. There is so much more to you than all of this.

 

 

[don't know]

At first I wanted to find stuff to show that it was OCD rather than the alternative. I tried to look at the differences but there really are none now. There are people who don't act on these things but yet still feel them. Everything lines up. That's why I feel like there's no point in dismissing it. I'm still confused about the whole logic thing. It's been pointed out that no one really understands my logic in my everyday life. If I explain my process, people look at me weird. I don't get them either though. 

It's not really thoughts it more feelings and arousal that hits without thinking about it. 

I ordered some books on OCD to read up and learn more about it because of the forum. But I also see articles and instagram pages from trained cbt/erp specialists who keep saying it attacks whats important to you/your values. To me it just feels like thats not completely accurate (if I'm wrong, I'm sorry) There's probably people who have strange symptoms with no real reason behind it. It also doesn't guarantee that these things won't come true and what if you change your values? Theres no real point in me being frustrated with it. 

I ended up looking up the OCD reddit page and theres a lot of people who's fears came true. That freaked me out. 

You're right I am harsh about that stuff. Its just if I look up the definition/symptoms/people's experience of OCD, depression, anxiety etc. I feel like I don't relate because I feel  I don't follow the traditional OCD cycle diagram that was shown to me back in CBT. I don't get intrusive thoughts, I get feelings/arousal. It's like its real. I hate being difficult and I know it really gets on people's nerves and I do apologise! But if I fit a description of something thats fair enough, whether I like it or not. Also as soon as I stopped arguing against it I knew it was true and still shows itself to be. 

Yeah, they weren't the best therapist. It's like you only need to come on here to see the different symptoms and pain people are in. I feel like their knowledge was really outdated and ignorant when I look back on it. I shouldn't be too harsh though. 

My sense of self was something I made up and was shattered completely. People change. I'm over it now it seems, I no longer feel sad about it. I don't see how you can disconnect yourself from it, it seems to be who I am and always have been. There's no point to it really. 

Also again, I'm sorry for being a pain. 

Edited November 15, 2019 by don't know

[PolarBear]

Sigh. This will likely fall on deaf ears and be dismissed like hundreds of other posts, but here goes.

You repeatedly tell us that your problem is not OCD, as if you understand OCD. In your post directly above, you claim to have read books and that apparently gave you the knowledge to diagnose yourself and make the claim that you do not have OCD.

As someone who suffered for 40 years, overcame his OCD, wrote three books on the subject, is contemplating a fourth and who has helped hundreds of other sufferers, I can assure you, with considerable authority, that you DO NOT understand OCD.

You said, above, "I don't get intrusive thoughts. I get feelings/arousal."

If you understood OCD, you would know that your statement above is nonsensical and erroneous.

Obsessions can be intrusive thoughts, but can also be intrusive images, feelings, urges, impulses or sensations or any combination thereof.

So you see, you do not need to have intrusive thoughts to have obsessions, which are one of the requirements to be diagnosed with OCD.

You do not understand the disorder so you are ill equipped to determine if you have it or not. And if you are wrong about this most basic of things, how hard would it be for you to be wrong about others?

Go ahead, dismiss this post like so many others.

[paradoxer]

Many are probably too young to remember the old Inspector Clouseau flicks with Herbert Lom as the beleaguered, driven to the point of madness police chief - victim of Peter Sellers.   

[dksea]

8 hours ago, don't know said:

I ended up looking up the OCD reddit page and theres a lot of people who's fears came true. That freaked me out. 

Yes, things people fear can come true. That’s true regardless of OCD. I’m afraid of getting cancer, most people probably are. Some people will get cancer. It can come true. But just because you fear it doesn’t mean it will come true either. I was afraid of being gay at one point. I eventually got past that fear but also, turns out I’m not gay. Whether or not a fear can/does come true has ZERO bearing on whether or not a person has OCD. OCD is about disproportionate reaction to fear, not fear of impossible things. 

[malina]

9 hours ago, don't know said:

I ordered some books on OCD to read up and learn more about it because of the forum. But I also see articles and instagram pages from trained cbt/erp specialists who keep saying it attacks whats important to you/your values. To me it just feels like thats not completely accurate (if I'm wrong, I'm sorry) There's probably people who have strange symptoms with no real reason behind it. It also doesn't guarantee that these things won't come true and what if you change your values? Theres no real point in me being frustrated with it. 

I ended up looking up the OCD reddit page and theres a lot of people who's fears came true. That freaked me out. 

 

OCD is an illness, it is not some kind of protection against bad things happening to you. Then again, this is a perfect example of your logic at work - you think "it came true for this person, so that means OCD will come true for me". Yet you ignore the hundreds of stories where the fear has never come true and people have gotten better. 

Also, this is getting confusing. You argue that you don't have OCD, yet now you read a story about OCD coming true for someone and that freaks you out. Well which is it - do you have OCD and are afraid it'll come true or do you not have OCD at all?

With regards to your question about whether OCD attacks your values - you have just said that this experience has shattered your sense of self. Surely, that is something you value. I am not sure if OCD always attacks your values or what is important to you, I suppose it can be completely random sometimes. But why does that even matter?

9 hours ago, don't know said:

I'm still confused about the whole logic thing. It's been pointed out that no one really understands my logic in my everyday life. If I explain my process, people look at me weird. I don't get them either though.

I think it's important to look at consensus sometimes, when many people are telling you the same thing, there is probably an element of truth to it (sorry!). It's important to be aware of this though, because you are making a number of important conclusions about yourself and your life based on faulty logic. 

[malina]

10 hours ago, don't know said:

At first I wanted to find stuff to show that it was OCD rather than the alternative.

I just have a question, how much of this did you try with the therapist you were seeing (the one who diagnosed you with OCD and was doing CBT with you)? For example you have said that you tried the A/B thing, and everything you thought about fit in the "not OCD" column, right? What did your therapist say to that?

[don't know]

 All I'm saying is that people who are into this kind of stuff also get feelings and are obviously aroused by it. What makes me so different? 

I just think what's the point of me going through treatment for me to know that I'm probably this person. I'm wasting peoples time (which I'm already doing here) and I just have to live with it. 

My way of thinking is that I feel as though the worst always happens. Its silly to think like that because things could be worse. There are worse things going on in the world and I'm just complaining. Even if I did have OCD I've never had the scarier thoughts that other people have and I feel awful for them. In regards to the reddit page, its scary to see that people's fear in relation to ocd came true, its sad, you spend all that time on it for it to come true. I was just ranting about that, it just bugs me.

With the Theory A/B stuff, I filled out one sheet about worries to do with my health during one of my sessions. With that, they said that they had felt like that sometimes, but to be honest I can't really remember anything else about it. I spiralled into a really bad depression at the time. Also my therapist said it was evidence based, so I have evidence that proves something, why dismiss it? 

It feels like all this stuff doesn't matter that I was wrong about everything because it came true and its like I don't care, I feel nothing towards all of this. There was no point in me trying to prove it or run away from it the entire time. 

Edited November 17, 2019 by don't know

[dksea]

4 hours ago, don't know said:

All I'm saying is that people who are into this kind of stuff also get feelings and are obviously aroused by it. What makes me so different? 

Well for one thing, people who are in to this stuff LIKE the feelings they get.  Not liking/not wanting these thoughts is the key difference.

But aside from that, I want you to focus on the word "also" above.  That is very important, also.  Even accepting that there are some people in the world who find incestuous thoughts to be a good/enjoyable thing, ALSO means that you recognize, on at least some level that they are not the ONLY people who get these thoughts/feelings/physical sensations.  That is something we have been TRYING desperately to get you to recognize forever now.  You keep insisting that simply having these sensations/thoughts/feelings is "evidence" that this is who you are.  Yet even you admit (correctly, and perhaps without even realizing it, that thats NOT the case.
 

4 hours ago, don't know said:

My way of thinking is that I feel as though the worst always happens. Its silly to think like that because things could be worse. There are worse things going on in the world and I'm just complaining. Even if I did have OCD I've never had the scarier thoughts that other people have and I feel awful for them.

Which is worse, getting a deep cut on your hand or getting your arm sliced off?  I'm guessing you will say the later, I would too.  But if you get a deep cut on your hand you should still get medical treatment.  Life isn't a competition for who is suffering worse, neither is OCD.  If you are in pain, you are in pain.  If you need help, you need help.  You don't have to be the person suffering more than anyone else to deserve or get help.  If you have a headache you can take some pain killers, you don't have to be suffering the worst headache imaginable.  If you break your arm, you should see a doctor, you don't have to have completely shattered every bone in your arm to be worthy of care.

Its great to have sympathy for other people.  Its great to understand that they are suffering and to feel bad for them.  That doesn't mean you can't also feel bad for yourself, its not a zero sum game.  And I can tell you from experience, the worst OCD fear is the one you are feeling right now.  I've had OCD fears that outwardly seem quite trivial compared to other fears, but at the time I had them, each was absolutely terrifying and debilitating.  If you are suffering, then you are suffering, and you deserve help.  Thats it, thats all that matters.

 

4 hours ago, don't know said:

Also my therapist said it was evidence based, so I have evidence that proves something, why dismiss it? 

What did they say was evidenced based?  CBT?  A/B Theory?  Depression?  Evidence based doesn't mean that you were applying or understanding the evidence correctly.  A/B theory and listing things out is a tool, and it CAN be helpful in understanding and treating OCD, but that doesn't mean it means exactly what YOU, the sufferer, thinks it means. 
As an example, lets say I take my temperature with a thermometer and the reading is 38 C.  Ok, that temperature is evidence.  But does it prove something?  Does it prove I'm sick?  What if I have no other symptoms?  What if the thermometer is inaccurate?  What if my normal body temperature is higher than normal to begin with?  Evidence matters, yes, and evidence CAN be used to prove things, but circumstances matter in understanding and applying evidence.   You are jumping from "I have evidence" to "It proves what I think it proves", but you are skipping important steps like "do I understand the evidence", "are there other explanations for the evidence", "is there any other evidence I should consider".
Not to mention the rather important question of, did I use the tool to gather accurate evidence in the first place!  If I stick the thermometer up my nose it WILL give a temperature reading, but will it give a meaningful one?  You can't just write out an A/B list, you have to understand how to use and interpret it.  If you don't even get an accurate measurement in the first place, then you don't even have any real evidence.
 

[dksea]

On 16/11/2019 at 08:40, don't know said:

Its just if I look up the definition/symptoms/people's experience of OCD, depression, anxiety etc. I feel like I don't relate because I feel  I don't follow the traditional OCD cycle diagram that was shown to me back in CBT. I don't get intrusive thoughts, I get feelings/arousal. It's like its real. I hate being difficult and I know it really gets on people's nerves and I do apologise!

As PB has pointed out "intrusive thoughts" are not limited to an image or idea in your head, OCD extends beyond that, "intrusive thoughts" is shorthand encompassing things like feelings, physical reactions/arousal, etc.  Heck, its one of the more common things people talk about on this forum alone.  if I had a dollar for every time someone on here posted about "groinal sensations" or some variation I could retire a very very wealthy man!  And you yourself have admitted you DO get intrusive thoughts, you've stated on numerous occasions that you get thoughts about incest when you are around family members.  Those are intrusive thoughts! 

Meanwhile:

On 16/11/2019 at 08:40, don't know said:

But if I fit a description of something thats fair enough, whether I like it or not.

Ok, well, then again, I have to tell you, based on everything you have ever posted and described on this forum you ABSOLUTELY fit the description of someone with OCD, whether you like it or not  

I absolutely accept that you don't "relate" to that.  How you feel is how you feel.  But how you feel and what is wrong are not the same thing.  People can "feel" like they are this or that, without actually BEING that thing.  A person can have cancer, meaning they are VERY sick, but "feel" fine.  Or, conversely, a person can "feel" sick and not have any physical illness at all (such as Munchausen syndrome).  A person can FEEL scared while being completely safe, or FEEL safe but actually be in serious danger.  How you feel and what is real might be connected, but they are not always in sync.  If I can get you to accept/admit/understand at least one thing from this entire thread, its that how you feel is not proof.  How you feel IS valid, you feel how you feel.  If you feel happy, you feel happy.  If you feel sad, you feel sad.  But that doesn't mean something is necessarily true or not.  Whether or not you FEEL like you have OCD doesn't mean you do.  Thats all.  Maybe you don't have OCD, ok, thats a possibility.  Maybe you do, also a possibility.  Either way, whether you FEEL like it isn't proof.

[don't know]

I had a really bad night where I just sat and cried for ages. All of it had gone and I knew it was true. It didn't matter anyway. I really don't believe it. There's like no point in trying. I ended up getting the thoughts today and it was like I didn't care. I don't see the point everything I worried about came true. Literally if anyone touches me/bumps into me or anything like that I get instantly aroused and I wish I didn't. It's been like that for so long, it probably started happening in early childhood and I didn't care until I was older. I know I'm not the only one who feels like that because I am one of these people. 

My therapist said the cbt was evidence based. I did gather actual evidence. 

I just feel like I still don't relate. I was online and a clip from Keeping up with the Kardashians came up (I had to see this today of all days). It was one of the sisters who had organisation and cleaning issues and was seen by an OCD specialist. At first I thought, she says that her organisation and cleaning brings her joy, but still is very picky about her house and on further inspection online she said "some people call OCD a curse, I call it a blessing" which made me so angry because people on this site with contamination and cleaning/organisation rituals wouldn't view it as such. I don't like to judge though, but is it bad that I got really angry about it? That this is the representation - that ocd doesn't cause pain and suffering. I don't know it just set me off but also because I thought I don't have those 'known' symptoms so I wouldn't be taken seriously, its happened before. That's really ignorant. Again, I know that theres so many other symptoms and its stupid to be like this, this forum is proof of that. 90% of the stuff I post is just stupid, useless and a waste of space. But I felt like I had to rant about it.

I also get confused when people say feelings are not facts, I know you've tried to explain it but I'm still confused about it. I just think if I'm constantly aroused by it - it means that I'm that type of person.

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by don't know

[malina]

On 17/11/2019 at 19:45, don't know said:

 All I'm saying is that people who are into this kind of stuff also get feelings and are obviously aroused by it. What makes me so different? 

See this is another error in logic. Your thinking is: there are people out there who have these feelings and it is true for them, so it MUST be true for me. While you completely discard a perfectly valid alternative.

15 minutes ago, don't know said:

. I don't like to judge though, but is it bad that I got really angry about it? 

I get angry about stuff like that all the time. This one woman I works with constantly says “I’m so OCD” whenever she is being picky about something and I’m just like , but she doesn’t know I have OCD and doesn’t realise how insensitive that is. 

 

18 minutes ago, don't know said:

, this forum is proof of that. 90% of the stuff I post is just stupid, useless and a waste of space. But I felt like I had to rant about it.

If people thought your posts were a waste of space, why would they respond? Why would people actually sit and think of detailed responses to someone who is posting nonsense. You have to stop putting yourself down all the time!

19 minutes ago, don't know said:

I also get confused when people say feelings are not facts, I know you've tried to explain it but I'm still confused about it. I just think if I'm constantly aroused by it - it means that I'm that type of person.

I can see that this is a big problem for you. I personally suffered from this same issue for a very long time and am still learning to change this way of thinking. Just because you feel something is true, doesn’t mean that it is true. Like all of the time you say you have evidence of this not being OCD, you say that it feels like it’s all OCD, like it’s all true, like you don’t relate. But then in all the things you say, the thoughts, patterns of behaviour, etc scream OCD.

[don't know]

There's no point I'm wrong about everything all the time. What's the point? I'm just done at this point. 

I was on facebook and a cousin of mine appeared on my timeline. They don't regularly update it. Anyway, as soon as their name appeared I got really really anxious. This is different to my other thoughts. Its because I'm a liar and I can't cope. I feel like I'm going to pass out. I don't care about them and I feel like a sick person. There's no point. 

I'm a delusional person that wanted all of this to be ocd when its real. I'm sorry I'm just crying right now. I'm so fed up.

I could apply that my 'real' feelings weren't in fact real, thats how I read it. Sorry for being difficult. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by don't know

[malina]

There is a point though! Life is very hard for you at the moment and you’re in a great deal of pain. It’s hard to see a way through that, but I think a lot of us believe in you and believe that you will find your way. 
 

7 minutes ago, don't know said:

I could apply that my 'real' feelings weren't in fact real, thats how I read it. Sorry for being difficult. 

No, that is not at all what I meant. What I’m trying to say is that your feelings have no relationship to the outcome of the situation. Like when you say you feel that this is not OCD, how can somebody feel whether they have a condition or not? Or you feel that you have no free will, that may be your personal perception but that doesn’t make it true, this is subjective and nothing to do with reality. Your emotions, the love you feel for example, is something completely separate. I’m taking about these intuitive feelings that you describe they are not real.

[don't know]

Nope, never will. I can't trust myself thats clear. I haven't been truly accepting myself for ages. I cling onto this false hope that I could be normal, but none of it is true. It never has been true. I was in some sort of deluded state. Its moments like this where I am really reminded of that. 

I'm sorry, I didn't mean that you were implying that. Because I read here and don't feel like I relate at all. I feel sick. I lied to myself and no one has ever felt like me and then gone through the other side not being what they feared. Its just not possible. 

[malina]

2 minutes ago, don't know said:

Nope, never will. I can't trust myself thats clear. I haven't been truly accepting myself for ages. I cling onto this false hope that I could be normal, but none of it is true. It never has been true. I was in some sort of deluded state. Its moments like this where I am really reminded of that. 

I'm sorry, I didn't mean that you were implying that. Because I read here and don't feel like I relate at all. I feel sick. I lied to myself and no one has ever felt like me and then gone through the other side not being what they feared. Its just not possible. 

DK I know that you are in a great deal of pain and I'm very sorry for you. All I can say is that at your age I was at a very bad place myself and I had absolutely no idea how to get out of it. I know you don't believe that it is similar to your situation but the emotions that you're feeling I can absolutely relate to. But it did get better, a lot better but it took work and I did not do it alone. And other people on this forum are the same, we have each experienced a world of pain and believed our fears to be true just like you do. Moreover, there are A LOT of people with OCD who have sexual themes, who are have intrusive thoughts about incest like you do and who experience arousal in the same way as you. There are quite a few posts about this theme on this forum. Yet they do not turn out being the thing that they feared and neither will you.

I know you don't believe any of this right now, but I hope and believe that eventually you will start to listen to advice and take the steps you need to in order to get better. 

[dksea]

2 hours ago, don't know said:

My therapist said the cbt was evidence based. I did gather actual evidence. 

When someone tells you that CBT is evidenced based that means that studies have been done and evidence has been gathered to show that CBT works NOT that everything you do in CBT is related to gathering evidence.

Meanwhile, you CAN gather evidence in doing CBT or any therapy, but there is a difference between having a piece of evidence and that evidence proving what you think it proves.

For example, what if you wake up one morning, walk in to your living room and find a bunch of feathers on the ground.  Those feathers are evidence.  But what do they mean?  Does it mean there is a bird loose in your house?  That is one explanation.  But maybe it just means you have a pillow with a hole in it?  There are multiple reasons why you might find a feather.  Evidence and proof are related, but not the same thing.

Its also important to understand that even with evidence a person might not be able to draw the correct conclusion because of their own biases and limitations.  When a person is too close to a situation it is often much harder for them to remain object and evaluate the evidence using reason and logic alone.  Emotion gets involved and emotion can skew the results. Lets say I'm a police detective and I think PolarBear is a bad person.  If a crime is committed I might look at all the evidence for proof that PolarBear did it.  I am not evaluating the evidence fairly or honestly, I am focused only on ways to make PolarBear the guilty person. (Sorry PolarBear).  Even with a lot of evidence a person can draw the wrong conclusion.  

So even if we accept that you have all this evidence and we accept that this evidence is correct, it still doesn't mean your conclusion is the correct one.  It might be, but you are in a bad place to make that decision because you are biased.  Your interpretation is colored and since you are in the middle of all the suffering, its unlikely you can view the situation objectively and consider ALL the evidence and ALL the possibilities.  Thats why we turn to outside professionals, in this case doctors and therapists.  We need help, we need people who can look at our situation from the outside to see what we ourselves are missing.

[dksea]

1 hour ago, don't know said:

I lied to myself and no one has ever felt like me and then gone through the other side not being what they feared. Its just not possible. 

Really?  You have met and studied EVERY person in the history of the planet and are certain none of them have ever gone through something similar to what you have and come out the other side?  Seeing as you are big on evidence, why not provide some evidence to prove your claim hmmm?

[dksea]

On 19/11/2019 at 07:43, don't know said:

What's the point? I'm just done at this point. 

You've said this before.  And you come back.  You've said it again.  And you come back.
Why?  Because you have OCD and thats what people with OCD do.

Oh I know you keep insisting you don't have OCD.  And you are free to say that, heck you are free to believe it if you want.  But I don't think you do.  Because if you did you wouldn't have come back.

I'm not sure who you are trying to convince with all your arguing, yourself or us.  Maybe both.

Well I've got bad news for you, we aren't going to agree with you.  We aren't going to tell you your claim of being predestined towards incest is right.  Just not gonna happen, for oh so many reasons.  I'm sure part of you thinks that would resolve things, if only you can get us to admit, then you can admit it yourself, then it would be "real".  Or something along those lines.  I hate to break it to you but even if some well meaning but misguided person here DID give you that reassurance, you'd still be back, because it wouldn't change anything.  So you aren't going to convince us, and it would be meaningless if you did anyway.

So how about yourself?  Have you convinced yourself yet?  You keep claiming you do, but then you keep coming back.  You keep arguing endlessly about how this or that means its NOT OCD (and you are basically wrong every time).  I know you think that if you just "accept" it things will be ok, but if that were the case why are you still suffering?  Haven't you already accepted this?  Multiple times.  Over months (if not years)?  Yet here you are again and again and again.  If you've accepted it you'd move on with your life, you'd be happy.  
 

On 16/11/2019 at 08:40, don't know said:

Also again, I'm sorry for being a pain. 

Saying your sorry but repeating the behavior isn't actually being sorry.  If you are TRULY sorry you'd try and make amends.  So here is my request for you, the thing you can do that would show you are truly sorry.  Accept that you are NOT good at judging what OCD is and isn't.  Accept that you just don't understand OCD all that well.  Thats not a crime, it doesn't make a bad person, we all have things we don't understand, thats normal.  But YOU need to realize that you are very very bad at understanding and judging OCD.  Its just not one of your strengths.  So as a favor to the people here on this forum, I ask you, as a kind of penance for your perceived being "a pain", that you stop trying to insist on what OCD is and isn't.  How about it?  Can you do that?  That doesn't even mean you have to admit or believe that you HAVE OCD, just that you are accepting that you aren't a good judge on that topic.

[don't know]

It's just been a terrible week. I'm just tired and always thinking whats the point in anything. I've ended up not doing well in classes. Not because I don't try because I'm not good at it and I'm always the dumbest person there. No one cares. I don't even care anymore, I haven't for a long time. It just feels as though everyone is doing great and I am just there. That's a stupid issue thats been on my mind. 

I've had issues surrounding the same stuff. Tuesday, I was getting aroused by these things, it felt like I enjoyed them and didn't care. Like this was what I wanted and it is who I truly am. I get this weird feeling when people say 'be who you are' because it feels like this is the real me. Friday was really difficult too. In class, the subject of Freud came up and I think a lot of people on here know about him. I kept thinking this probably the unconscious part of me and that everything I feared is coming true. In one aspect it has, I'm sure now that I'm probably attracted to one of my family members even though I was terrified and didn't want it to happen. But theres only so much I can take. As soon as I said it was true - it actually came true. Its turns out that was just repression. It feels like I want it. There's no point. I feel like theres some sort of disconnect between who I thought I was and who I actually am. 

Edited November 23, 2019 by don't know