Jump to content

Feeling Dishonest


Recommended Posts

Hello. I'm in a bit of a quandary. I'm a lawyer, and in this profession there are two big things lawyers can lose their professional license over: stealing money from clients and lying under oath. Sometimes I think my OCD might play into my profession a bit by making me think that I have to be ethically flawless in order not to feel like a hypocrite in front of a judge. For ten years I've been only licensed to practice in Massachusetts. It's been my goal for a few years to get my license in other state. Finally, I decided to fill out an application to get my license in a state outside of MA. The paper work and process has been taking a while. Because I've practiced in MA for at least five years, though, I wont need to take a new bar exam. Anyway, there is a part on the application which asks if I've ever been suspended from school (not including elementary school). In 1993, when I was 13 and in middle school, I was sent home for a week for pulling the fire alarm. A group of boys who I ran into in the hallway were challenging me to do it (which is not an excuse for me to have done it). I felt really bad afterwards when I realized the disruption that I caused. Anyways, I think that being sent home is considered a suspension, but I checked the box that said "no" where it asked about prior suspensions and signed it under oath. 

Now every day I am feeling bad about it. How can I represent clients, I tell myself, and talk to judges with a straight face when I've said something untrue under oath? On the other hand, I tell myself well I'm honest when I work in court in front of judges, and I am fair to clients, I don't rip them off, I don't steel from them,  etc. Part of me says why should they be asking people about things that happened in middle school, and  how could they deny someone a license because of something that happened at a very young age so long ago. I can't figure out if OCD is making a big deal of not reporting the middle school incident, or if I really now need to write a letter to the board that received the application and tell them about the incident. I could say that I remembered it afterwards. If I do this it will also be a lie because I remembered the incident before signing the application. At least, though, I'd be letting them know what happened. If I write back and tell them the complete truth: i.e. that I got suspended and didn't initially put it on the application even though I had remembered it at the time, then the consequences could be severe: they can not only deny my application to practice in their state, they can also contact the board of bar overseers in my state and inform them that I lied on an application. If that happens, I could loose my law license permanently.  Please let me know what I should do.

I have no other way to make a living besides practicing law. My family and I moved into our first single family home last January, and me loosing my law license now could be a disaster. At age 39 it wont be easy to remake myself. 

Btw, loosing my law license is a big theme for my OCD in ways other than this as well. E.g. I think of all kinds of technicalities that could potentially lead to me being disciplined by the board of bar overseers.

Thank you.

 

Edited by NoahsArk
Link to comment

Right...

I am not a Lawyer, and don’t know anything about schools in America, but...

in the uk when I was at school, ( a long time ago!),  being suspended meant  not being allowed to go to school for set period of time, there would have been a meeting with your parents and lots of paperwork. You would have to have done something more than “ naughty”.

Being sent home for acting like a dick, involved a clip round the ear from Mum and sent to bed. It’s not the same thing.

But you know all this, and you are a lawyer, you make decisions about this sort of thing for a living.

Sounds to me like OCD. And if it sounds like OCD......

So invoke the what would normal people do rule....

From your side you can see what I think. “I’m as normal as your getting at the moment”

What do you think you would think about some one trying to confess about setting the fire alarm off when they were at school.....

You are a Laywer not a saint.

you are just going to have to let this go.

Link to comment
5 hours ago, NoahsArk said:

. I can't figure out if OCD is making a big deal of not reporting the middle school incident, or if I really now need to write a letter to the board that received the application and tell them about the incident.

Well let me role play this.

The Board get your letter, (no doubt sent registered post with " very important" stamped on it.)

The board ( who in my mind look like Stadler and Waldorf) read your letter.

" Good god , this mister N. Ark is confessing to letting the school fire bell off".

"My word how did he get away without a suspension?"

"He said bigger boys made him do it".

" The classic defence a brilliant legal mind at work"

"What's next?"

"A Mr C. Losedforrepairs, has been accused of farting in class"

" Defense?"

" He who smelt it dealt it!"

"Prosecution argument?"

He who denied it supplied it!"

"This one's going all the way to the supreme court!"

Fade to black.

I by no means wish to belittle your discomfort over this, I myself have spent ages doing and thinking ridiculous things due to OCD, and I know the pain you feel is real and distressing.

Maybe the situation is more serious than I think it is, but it's the OCD that's stopping you from assessing it the way you would look at any other legal matter.

Hope you are not offended by my approach to this, but it's the OCD I'm targeting not you!

 

Link to comment

Hi noahsark

In my view this is ocd blowing a tiny thing massively out of proportion. You now have an urge to "confess" or do something to "make it right". Don't play ocd's game. It will never work. You need to sit with the anxiety and discomfort you feel over this, allow it to be a little uncertain or ambiguous, and don't do anything with it. Don't pay it attention. Allow it to fade. Every time it pops into your mind just get on with your day. 

Link to comment

Thank you for the helpful responses. I want to clarify that it’s not so much guilt from what happened in 1993 that’s bothering me, or even the fact that I didn’t disclose it on my application. It’s the fact that when asked if i was ever suspended I affirmatively denied it. Does that make my dilemma more legitimate? Also, I will need to go in for an interview with the board before getting my license, and am worried they will question me on the truth of my application. 

Link to comment

Have to admit, I didn’t read your first post correctly, and missed the bit about getting sent home “for a week”

Sorry, I should know better.

it seems such an odd thing to ask. After all you have been punished.

Nevertheless, I think that no one is going to be much bothered about what you did.

But I can see you have a problem with how you approach the interview.

Im afraid you are going to have to decide what to say, as you are the one having to sit the interview. I assume you were going to do some prep work and not just wing it.

I suspect no one here has much experience of you specific circumstances, and you may be better asking on a US legal forum about how this might play out.

On the OCD side though, yes the fact that you are worried to the point of distress, means that it’s probably OCD demanding that it has to know for a fact what is going to happen. If you go through the list of unhelpful thinking patterns, you are “ Predicting the future” with a bit of catastrophising thrown in.

 

Link to comment
1 minute ago, Closed for repairs said:

suspect no one here has much experience of you specific circumstances, and you may be better asking on a US legal forum about how this might play out.

 

By the way when I suggest this, please be careful that you don’t go down the rabbit hole of compulsive checking on the internet, till you find the most extreme and ridiculous advice after a ten hour intensive surfing session.

Link to comment
6 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I understand what you're saying but I think most people would have done the same thing in your shoes. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Closed for repairs said:

I'm afraid you are going to have to decide what to say, as you are the one having to sit the interview. I assume you were going to do some prep work and not just wing it.

 

 

My main concern now is what to say if they ask. The thing is they may not even ask about it at the interview. If they do, and I tell them that I gave a false response to one of the questions on the application, I open myself up to the risk of not getting admitted, and also to further consequences (how bad the consequences would be I don't know). I know, though, that if I just don't say anything, or if I say I was never suspended, no one could ever find out because my principal at the time purposely did not let the incident go on my record. I'm just worried about the psychological effect it will have on me knowing that I said something that wasn't true in an application like that. Thanks.

Link to comment
24 minutes ago, NoahsArk said:

I'm just worried about the psychological effect it will have on me knowing that I said something that wasn't true in an application like that. Thanks.

That’s the Obsession, and you feel Compelled to confess.....

8 hours ago, dksea said:

Remember: If you think it MIGHT be OCD, it PROBABLY is

This... as usual dksea hitting the nail on the head.

Link to comment

Regarding what dksea said, I agree that it sounds like OCD. The conclusion I'm getting here is that I have a choice to make, to either tell them what happened if they ask or not to say anything, and that I need to choose now  and then stop obsessing over it. Is that a good way to approach this? I probably just wont say anything, but for the future try to be honest in my dealings. It's a tough choice for me though. I want to feel "solid" about my character. If I don't feel that way,  my lack of confidence comes out at work. For example, a couple of clients had recently been almost two months late on paying me for a substantial amount of work that I did, and I still had a lot more work to do for them. I wasn't even trying to convince them to have me do the work, I disclosed the cost in advance, and gave them alternative options that may not involve the need to incur costs. I thought, though, that because my misstatement on the application makes me a liar, I don't really have the right to be firm on asking them to pay me. I decided to just give them the benefit of the doubt and give them time. Eventually they made a part payment which is better than nothing. I think I made the right choice with them, but the fact that I was feeling like maybe I shouldn't even have gotten paid at all is a result of the application. 

Also, another aspect of this which could be playing into my OCD, is part of my job involves trying to find out the truth of what happened- e.g. is someone telling the truth about whether or not they owe money (or that they borrowed money, stole money, etc.). I have to either make a convincing argument to a court that they aren't or that they are (which is less often). How can I be arguing about these things if I'm a hypocrite who myself didn't tell the truth on an application to get my law license?

2 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

If it's not on your record then officially you weren't suspended...? You were sent home for a week off the record as a lesson. 

I wasn't sure myself if that's considered a suspension or not. I think my school may have called it that, but I don't remember. I just looked it up in the dictionary lol and it says suspension is "the temporary prevention of something from continuing to be in force or effect". It may have a legal definition as well, but I haven't checked into that yet (it's not my area of practice so I don't come across the issue). 

Thanks again for the responses. 

Link to comment

I’ve realized that this is OCD and it’s not bugging me anymore. I appreciate the help.

Gingerbg I also wanted to say that in my last post, where I wrote the definition, I wasn’t trying to be sarcastic. That was just my ocd making me check. 

Edited by NoahsArk
Link to comment
On 12/12/2019 at 11:41, NoahsArk said:

I’ve realized that this is OCD and it’s not bugging me anymore. I appreciate the help.

Gingerbg I also wanted to say that in my last post, where I wrote the definition, I wasn’t trying to be sarcastic. That was just my ocd making me check. 

Don't worry I didn't think you were being sarcastic at all :) 

Link to comment
On 12/12/2019 at 03:41, NoahsArk said:

I’ve realized that this is OCD and it’s not bugging me anymore. I appreciate the help.

Gingerbg I also wanted to say that in my last post, where I wrote the definition, I wasn’t trying to be sarcastic. That was just my ocd making me check. 

Excellent counselor!

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...