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Contamination OCD? Reasonable anxiety?


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During planning work to my current house I recently became aware that I was likely exposed to asbestos in my old pre war built house. I lived there for approx 10 years and when I first moved in a lot of work was needed on the place. The first exposure I had was chiseling off some artex in a hallway which I did over several days and led to a lot of dust. I could never remove it all so it remained damaged for the rest of the time we lived there, just painted over. I queried this at the time with my much older (and I believed at the time wiser, now ex) husband but he dismissed my concerns. In hindsight I know he did this as he was blase and didn't want to pay for testing or removal rather than having any actual knowledge in the subject.
The latter came when we had the main bedroom artex ceiling removed. A workman did the actual work but again this was done on the cheap. it created a ridiculous amount of dust that hung around for a long time and was next to impossible to clean up. (I do not think the guy realised it was artex or didn't care about the risk maybe. It was certainly never mentioned.)
I realised this approx 36h ago. Shortly afterwards I realised that if the ceiling was brought down then whatever insulation was on top must have been too. I have no idea what this was or even that there definately was any and this led me to worry it could have been asbestos which I understand is the most dangerous kind when uses in this way.

I am concerned that I was therefore chronically exposed to asbestos,possibly the worst kind, over many weeks/months (possibly longer as dust got in all rooms and on furnishings etc.) And am extremely concerned about my risks of developing illness now (about 10 years on) or in the future as a result.

I am also worried about some work I did filing in an old basement as it had old pipes overhead with crumbling insulation on them that kept falling in my hair. This place I worked in for many hours approx one say a week for months.

I am currently completely obsessed with going over and over the ceiling removal trying to remember if we had any insulation and if we had if it was the dangerous kind. Despite speaking to a surveyor who has only seen the most dangerous kind once in a domestic property in his career I am still certain we would have had it too based on no evidence at all.

Currently my brain is throwing up ideas that initially seem sensible to me but actually are really bad ideas e.g. knocking on the door of the house and asking for a sample from their attic (yes I know this would sound crazy) or contacting my ex (but I know he would either not remember or it wouldn't help as would either make me worse or Iikely wouldn't believe him. That and this is a bad idea anyway)

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55 minutes ago, AnxiousAnnie said:

Despite speaking to a surveyor who has only seen the most dangerous kind once in a domestic property in his career I am still certain we would have had it too based on no evidence at all.

Currently my brain is throwing up ideas that initially seem sensible to me but actually are really bad ideas e.g. knocking on the door of the house and asking for a sample from their attic (yes I know this would sound crazy) or contacting my ex (but I know he would either not remember or it wouldn't help as would either make me worse or Iikely wouldn't believe him. That and this is a bad idea anyway)


So you recognize that you have no evidence to support your anxiety that this was the worst kind. You also recognize that pretty much any attempt you make at this point to confirm your already shaky self-diagnosis is likely to be unhelpful. And the thing is, even if you were exposed, what’s done is done, you can’t change anything. If you happen to develop symptoms at some point related to the exposure then your doctors will treat whatever that is, but there isn’t (so far as I know) any kind of preventative treatment they can offer. Either there has been damage or their hasn’t. 
 

But regardless of what did or did not happen the real problem right now is the doubt you are feeling. That’s OCD at work. Unfortunately the best thing to do is to act as though the concern is not true, keep living your life, and ride out the anxiety until it fades.  Kinda like toughing it out when you have a mild cold.  Hang in there and do your best to avoid ruminating and other compulsions (such as research on the Internet).

 

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I am really struggling with the ruminating and researching, also with seeking reassurance (which I can't really get). I keep trying to work out ways I could get a sample to just make me feel better. Cuz if it was the worst kind then everything in that house would be contaminated, including many things I still have and my young children use.

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2 hours ago, AnxiousAnnie said:

But if it was bad I could throw things away to prevent further exposure for example. So I could do that at least. And if it were negative it would put the issue to bed entirely.

Well seeing as you are asking on an OCD forum, and not a DIY or asbestos one...

I'm going to suspect that even if you got a certificate from the top expert in asbestos, saying that everything will be ok, you are still going to worry in case they missed something.

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6 hours ago, AnxiousAnnie said:

And if it were negative it would put the issue to bed entirely.

Would it though?  Has that been your experience in the past when you have anxieties like this?  In all my experience with OCD, seldom has getting that kind of information lead to long term relief. 

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  • 2 years later...

So this topic has reared its ugly head again with ruminations and concern over things feeling contaminated in the house if they were ever in my old house. Obviously concerned for my own health but mainly for that of my kids who use things that were once in that house. Any additional guidance?

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I feel like by not acting to rule out any ongoing asbestos risk from our possessions I am not keeping my kids safe. Its the first thing I think about every morning and am unable to think about much else all day. 

Am wondering if a conversation with asbestos survey company might be helpful as if my concerns about stuff in this house being contaminated after all this time are unwarranted then I can stop worrying about this aspect. If it is a thing then maybe they could suggest something. I don't know. 

I just feel like we are unsafe in our own home. It's bad enough that I've been likely exposed but to think my kids have been as a result is intolerable.

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3 hours ago, AnxiousAnnie said:

I feel like by not acting to rule out any ongoing asbestos risk from our possessions I am not keeping my kids safe.

Nonsense. :wontlisten: 

OCD/ catastrophic thinking is making you interpret this situation as 'failing my children.'  Choosing to interpret things this way might even be an excuse to reassure yourself that taking action is necessary, because no parent wants to put their children in danger.

3 hours ago, AnxiousAnnie said:

Am wondering if a conversation with asbestos survey company might be helpful as if my concerns about stuff in this house being contaminated after all this time are unwarranted then I can stop worrying about this aspect

Giving in to compulsions never satisfies the OCD doubt. You could contact a professional, but any reassurance you received would quickly fall prey to more OCD doubts and be undermined by more OCD thinking.

 

3 hours ago, AnxiousAnnie said:

I just feel like we are unsafe in our own home. It's bad enough that I've been likely exposed but to think my kids have been as a result is intolerable.

Remember it's a feeling, not a fact. You feel that way because you've been using catastrophic thinking process to make sense of (interpret) your world and doing compulsions to make yourself feel better.

Part of that extreme thinking is 'I have to believe the OCD doubt, because ignoring this feeling equates to putting my children at risk.'

Ignoring a feeling that's based on OCD thinking and rumination does not in any way put your children at risk. :no:

You need to get your head around that fact. 

'I have to check this out this for my kids sake/ in order to be a good parent' is the faulty belief that keeps you stuck in the cycle of OCD. You're never going to want to put your children at real risk or be a bad parent, so letting go of this belief is what needs to change before OCD will let you out of its grip.

 

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There's a difference between genuine risk (asbestos actually is dangerous, nobody is arguing there) and excessive fear from extreme perceived risk which is the result of catastrophic OCD thinking.

A person without OCD would look at the risk of asbestos exposure, make a decision on whether action was required or not and sort it or leave it without a backward glance or a second thought. It wouldn't even occur to them to wonder if the asbestos could 'contaminate' their possessions. Normal thinking doesn't 'contaminate' things with fear/ risk in that way.

So the problem here isn't about 'genuine' risk or the fact asbestos is dangerous. The problem is

1. how you are thinking about it

- that perceived risk is the same as genuine risk (it isn't) :no:

- possessions could be contaminated by the very presence of asbestos (without evidence there has been actual or significant contact)

- that these asbestos exposed possessions (as you see them) pose a risk to your children  (other parents wouldn't perceive the possessions as a danger without evidence the asbestos had been in direct contact with them eg. A piece of asbestos roofing fell directly on top of a toy, or asbestos dust had visibly covered everything in the room in a white powder so you could reasonably assume there was genuine risk )

- it's because you are a good parent :) that you buy into the OCD fear and use your children's welfare as a reason why you can't just dismiss this as OCD :( This way of viewing the situation keeps you locked in the cycle of faulty thinking and compulsions.

'My response to this determines my parenting skills/ reflects how much I care about my kids' - it doesn't. :no:  How you deal with this is completely separate from what kind of person you are. Your response reflects only that you suffer from catastrophic thinking and OCD.

2. how you behave as a result of continually thinking these kinds of thoughts

- never accepting the risk is minimal

- unable to accept 'any' risk however miniscule (based on the faulty belief 'That would make me a bad parent')

-doing compulsions such as ruminating endlessly, 'tracking' an imagined contamination process from source to possesions, thinking about it in a way that convinces you there is a significant amount of asbestos/ significant risk, convincing yourself that because the risk feels real it must be real and because asbestos is actually dangerous that the danger is extreme, present and genuine and not some figment of your thinking process.

Your anxiety is all the result of your thinking process.

 

How we think determines how we see the world. How we interpret things determines what outcome we experience.

With OCD thinking the outcome is anxiety and doubt, and ongoing compulsions trying to reduce that anxiety/ erase the doubt completely.

With normal thinking the outcome is a practical problem that may or may not need action, action is taken (if needed) and then it's forgotten about without dwelling on it, no reviving of doubt, no ongoing anxiety.

So to tackle this you have to accept you have a thinking problem, not an 'asbestos problem'. Make sense? :)

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Snowbear is right on the money here.

And of course OCD is creating the thoughts that evoke the worry.

Asbestosis is a gradually occurring disease ( not the correct technical term but I have forgotten it). If you were exposed it may not manifest itself for quite  some time, I think you know that. 

So, you have to accept that because of that there isn't going to be any certainty. 

So if you know there can be no certainty,  you may have it, you may not, what is the point of worrying? You can only damage your health and wellbeing anyway  if you do,   and of course you may not have it anyway.

 

Edited by taurean
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The problem is that the risk is either minimal/none (I.e. there was no asbestos insulation so no ongoing contamination risk), or it is high (it was present, it contaminated everything and we are continuing to expose ourselves daily). I don't feel I can just sit by and hope it's the former!

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OK. So what made you think there was asbestos insulation in the house in the first place?

Are you catastrophising about the idea your home might have asbestos in it (lots of older houses do) without knowing for sure if there even is asbestos in the structure?

Next question; Is the house structure intact or damaged? Because if it's intact then even if there is asbestos present it does not pose a significant risk to the occupants. It's only when the structure is damaged, exposing any asbestos, that steps need to be taken to ensure safety.

In short, did you suddenly start thinking about this out of the blue and get stressed out over the idea that you live in an older house and older houses sometimes used asbestos for insulation? (OCD +++)

OR

Was there damage with visible/ exposed insulation present that then made you wonder if the insulation might contain asbestos ? (Legitimate concern, call in an expert and get it checked.)

Neither of those options relies on 'just hoping for the best'. It's a simple matter of separating out genuine risk from imagined/ perceived risk.

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12 hours ago, snowbear said:

OK. So what made you think there was asbestos insulation in the house in the first place?

Are you catastrophising about the idea your home might have asbestos in it (lots of older houses do) without knowing for sure if there even is asbestos in the structure?

Next question; Is the house structure intact or damaged? Because if it's intact then even if there is asbestos present it does not pose a significant risk to the occupants. It's only when the structure is damaged, exposing any asbestos, that steps need to be taken to ensure safety.

In short, did you suddenly start thinking about this out of the blue and get stressed out over the idea that you live in an older house and older houses sometimes used asbestos for insulation? (OCD +++)

OR

Was there damage with visible/ exposed insulation present that then made you wonder if the insulation might contain asbestos ? (Legitimate concern, call in an expert and get it checked.)

Neither of those options relies on 'just hoping for the best'. It's a simple matter of separating out genuine risk from imagined/ perceived risk.

Hi 

This was work on an old house in which structures were broken up as you can see in the original post. I knew nothing about asbestos risk then and it's only since becoming aware that I've begun to worry. 

No I don't know for certain it was there but there is a good liklihood it was in the artex. I accept I have no evidence for or against in being in the loft but the risks if it was are huge. 

I can't do anything reasonably to confirm or deny this now without contacting the new homeowner there and appearing insane. 

I accept there is nothing I can do about what I may have beeb exposed to tho it does still terrify me. But I'm concerned about ongoing risk particularly to the kids from soft furnishings that were in the house at the time as any asbestos present can't just b cleaned off by bunging it in the washer or hoovering etc  

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19 minutes ago, AnxiousAnnie said:

I accept there is nothing I can do about what I may have beeb exposed to tho it does still terrify me. But I'm concerned about ongoing risk particularly to the kids from soft furnishings that were in the house at the time as any asbestos present can't just b cleaned off by bunging it in the washer or hoovering etc  

Aren't you making a really big risk out of a relatively small one? 

That is classic OCD and I think you need to look back at snowbear describing the chains of connection OCD forms with contamination OCD , and start accepting that what risk to the kids there may be is likely pretty minor.

 

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So how do you deal with this?

If you cannot have the certainty you require - typical OCD - then how are you going to proceed forward?

The rational response might be to accept that you may have it within you, maybe maybe not, and possibly rhe children may get it.

But  I can't do anything about that, so I will get on with having the best life possible anyway.

What other solution is there that doesn't destroy your health and wellbeing?

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5 hours ago, AnxiousAnnie said:

I could get rid of anything that was ever in that house. Or arrange some sort of testing on it potentially.

Now that's catastrophising and impractical at best. I'd go back to what @taurean said about the rational response to this. Would you respond to this like this if you didn't have OCD. Would other people without OCD respond like this? You already said you accept the fact that it might be the case or might not be. Don't try to choose one or the other, that's ineffective against OCD. Sitting in the uncertainty of either is the only way to work with it. That means accepting you don't know if it was or wasn't the case and that you don't need/want to figure it out.

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18 minutes ago, DRS1 said:

Now that's catastrophising and impractical at best. I'd go back to what @taurean said about the rational response to this. Would you respond to this like this if you didn't have OCD. Would other people without OCD respond like this? You already said you accept the fact that it might be the case or might not be. Don't try to choose one or the other, that's ineffective against OCD. Sitting in the uncertainty of either is the only way to work with it. That means accepting you don't know if it was or wasn't the case and that you don't need/want to figure it out.

I do accept that except when it comes to potential risk to kids. Surely it's not worth it in that case?!

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