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Hi everyone

Happy New Year. I hope everyone had a lovely Christmas; I was over at my brother's and spent the day with him, my sister-in-law and her parents, who happen to be a vicar and church support. 

Now, it'll sound silly to some, but I'm actually really proud of myself for how I did on this day. I've often been known to unconsciously 'be afraid' of more confident Christians, if you will because I feel so rubbish as a Christian in comparison and it often triggers my OCD; I would often find myself thinking, 'I suck in contrast to you - how are you so comfortable, and I'm just not?' And I was fine. Maybe that's a little nit-picky - of course, it's a family occasion, not a church event and of course they're lovely people, but I just felt so glad I was able to just do that, you know? It felt like an indicator of how far I've come and we had a lovely time. 

Now, to the other stuff; I'm still suffering some of the physical aspects of anxiety - shaking hands and sore tummy, and so forth. This is a more problematic area. I don't know how to describe it, but I guess I'll explain it like this; I write a lot of different stuff, but I often fret just what to share with the world. Sometimes I'll publish something that I'm not sure about, that I've ruminated over and that caused me problems in the past with with OCD and religion. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing or the wrong thing and I get in a muddle. I know I'm the only one who can answer these questions and I need to be gentle with myself. I just ruminate a lot over The Right Thing and if I'm being tested by God. I expect some of you will laugh at that but it's what ails me. I don't know if I feel OCD-based fear or genuine worry. When you have OCD, everything becomes ten times worse. 

Anyway, on the bright side, I've had two lovely days off. So at least I'm more relaxed. 

C x :hug: 

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Hi Cub! 

Happy new year! It sounds like you had a lovely Christmas and that you did really well to be able to enjoy yourself! It definitely doesn't sound silly at all. You can use it to build your confidence going forward. It's great to hear you had a nice time ?

I have religious worries related to my OCD too; I worry I'm not Christian enough and such like, or that I don't believe enough in comparison to others... But I've been doing religious studies courses at uni and while other people definitely know more than me it's helped me work through some worries about my own faith. I agree that it can be so difficult to tell if my worries in that regard are rooted in faith or if it's coming from OCD. And I sometimes think some aspects of religion are difficult because of OCD but I'd eventually like to go to church more often in the future. Is religion something you enjoy having in your life? 

While I've been studying, I've come to think that - like with OCD - it's hard to accept that we might never have certainty in religion. But I really believe that religion should be something that can be a comfort to us, and that I'd like to believe in a God that understands the challenges OCD and life in general presents with us, and trusts us to make good choices. We might never know if we're doing the right thing, but if we are comfortable and confident with the decisions we are making, and we are making them for the right reasons (and if faith comes into those reasons, that's fine!) then to God, that should be enough. You are enough. ?

I think religion can be something we can use to comfort us, and however that works for you, is totally fine. There are so many denominations of Christianity all practised differently. I don't think there's a right way to practise your religion, and I don't think it's helpful to compare yourself to how other people show their faith. It's okay to question things. 

I found listening to some religious mindfulness podcasts helped me - it lets me find comfort in belief, rather than focus on the things that worry or scare me. 

It sounds like you're the right things to challenge your OCD, and I'm glad you had a lovely Christmas!

All the best,

Ivy x 

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Hi IB

Thankyou so much for such a kind reply and for the comfort. I particularly appreciate you sharing your story; it sounds as if you're facing religion head-on and keeping yourself informed; I on the other hand unconsciously try to avoid it in some ways, as I far being triggered, or not being good enough. It's hard to tell the difference between a genuine religious ponder and a ruminative trigger and I get into such a state. I do believe in God and I pray and I want to do right, but I often beat myself up when I've done something that I perceive, even in my head, to be wrong. Even if it feels unfair or unjustified, I wonder: is this wrong or right?

I did get into a bit of a state earlier, but I calmed down by distracting myself with some writing; I'm actually writing a story about OCD at the moment and it's a good outlet? I don't know if that was some kind of arrogance, but I feel better now. I'm a proper fangirl; I write a lot of fanfiction (I don't know if you know what that is) and my OCD can trigger me because I just feel this need to always make the right decision and write the right content and do the right thing. Sometimes, I wonder if I'm making the choice because it's right, or because I want to feel the fear and do it anyway. Recently, I've been looking at things from a different angle and thinking there are more important things in the world to be worrying about and taking a step back. I tend to focus on the wrong things to worry about and I'm trying to worry about the right things; it's difficult because my sense of morality and right and wrong felt like it was all contained in a small box when I was younger and now I'm older, it seems to have expanded, leaving me more confused - and perhaps not as moral as I prefer? I'm feeling more 'human' these days, seeing things in shades of grey as opposed to black and white and that bothers me. I always used to have a set of bylines, quite strict I suppose and I just think. 'if I don't have these to worry about and keep me level, then what exactly is the point?' Perhaps that sounds silly, but it's the best way I can explain myself just lately. I hoped things would get easier as I got older but now I'm older, it feels as though my OCD was easier to deal with when I was younger. I know part of OCD - or at least for me - is accepting our humanity and that we're not all saints; that helped a lot in the beginning - but it's difficult. 

What does help is knowing that God loves me unconditionally, but I don't want to take advantage of that love and yet sometimes, I fear I do. I've often had moments when I've felt close to him and communicated to, but sometimes OCD makes it difficult and I wonder if I'm making the same mistakes again and again without learning from them. 

Anyway, that's the rollarcoaster ride into my psyche! :DThankyou for reading and for sharing, if you got this far. 

C x

 

Edited by Cub
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Thank you for sharing your experience; I'm sorry you're struggling with this. OCD can make things so difficult - especially when thinking about issues that are already challenging, things like religion. I agree, it can be hard to tell when genuine contemplation turns into rumination. I completely understand what you mean about trying to avoid being triggered by it. I was given a Bible at school when I was 11, read something in a verse that triggered me and couldn't read it again for years. I was a Christian too scared to read the Bible. ? I couldn't go to church for similar reasons! I've been working on challenging both! 

I think one thing that's helping me think about my religious beliefs and keep the OCD tendencies at bay is having some structure to the thinking. Perhaps you could get a book about religion, or thinking about faith, or about religious experiences of other people, or even short articles online? Then you could read it in chunks to challenge your OCD in small ways, in a way you can control. Allow yourself to think about the topic while you're reading, perhaps write down your thoughts after you're done and then try and do something else completely different. If you find a worry or concern is sticking with you as an OCD rumination, maybe you could try a 'thought record' style CBT approach? Try and identify what the concern is, and work through it that way. ? I wonder if setting a small amount of time specifically to think about these things would help? 

What a strange coincidence about fanfiction though! I absolutely know fanfiction; I used to write all the time - I had hundreds of stories for a while. I've been a massive fangirl since I was tiny and discovering fanfic was awesome - it meant I could practise my writing and explore what I was thinking and feeling in a pretend world I considered my safe place, if that makes sense? Unfortunately, it ended up triggering more anxiety as I got older and during a bad OCD episode a couple of years ago, I deleted all of my accounts and stopped interacting with the internet. I'd stopped watching most TV shows and movies because of my OCD, despite them being things I'd loved and got myself in a big old muddle. It's something I miss a lot though, and would love to start enjoying fandom again once I'm a little further on with my OCD treatment. I don't think it's arrogant at all to write about the things like OCD - it can be really cathartic to do that kind of thing! But never feel like you have to write differently for other people or produce the 'right' kind of content - your writing should make you happy first and foremost. ? It's awesome that you write; I hope it's something that continues to help you!

One person's right and wrong is going to be different from another's. Sticking with books as an example, I personally hate violence and can't watch or read stuff like Game of Thrones but that doesn't mean that book is wrong. I adore fantasy stories or YA literature or books about magic, but that doesn't make the author right for having written them. It's all perception. It's difficult accepting that about our own morals, though I think. You're right though - we don't have to be saints. It's also okay for your values to change over time too, and change your mind about certain issues. It'd be easier if everything was black and white though, for sure! 

I hope this made sense; sorry, I think I rambled a little! But just one more thing: can you take advantage of unconditional love? If God's love was dependant on us not making the same mistakes over and over, it wouldn't be unconditional. I like to think part of being loved is knowing I'm safe to make mistakes and still be loved. A daft example, but when my dog is learning something new, he often repeats the same mistakes over and over - I don't love him any less for it. ? I like to think that God might think similarly about humans.  

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Hi Ivy

Wow, thanks for that. I know reassurance-seeking is what we should be avoiding, but your post has made me feel a lot better; like I'm not the only one with these issues, although I'm very sorry to hear of your own experiences. I don't know about you, but I went through a lot of guilt, a lot of questions and it took a lot of therapy to make me realise I didn't have to be so rigid about it. I hope you can take it up again soon.

I find it in particular really awesome that you understand fanfiction, as it can be hard to explain my relationship with it to OCD; put simply, I had a lot of guilt over it for a time and it made things very bad; my own anxiety was triggered and was in fact triggered tonight because I posted a fanfic I wasn't sure about, and was quite bold by my standards. I'm better now, but I often have these massive dilemmas - at least, massive to me, of: Should I publish this fic? I've written it for myself, I'd love to share it with the public? Am I 'allowed' to share it with the public? If I post this fic, am I committing some sort of sin? Several times over the last few months, I've felt anxious and guilty after posting certain kinds of fanfic and I don't know if that's me pushing myself too hard, feeling the fear and doing it anyway. The awful thing is, there's nothing fundamentally 'wrong' with the stuff I've posted; it's all to do with deep affection and love and isn't anything graphic, but I just keep feeling anxious and like I'm defying God. A lot of my friends have told me to write for myself and not worry about what I'm writing and that's what I'm trying to do but it's hard when you've got such deep-seated fears. My psychologist told me to do things according to my moral code and it used to be that I wouldn't post certain stuff at all. So I can't help but feel a bit confused. 

Now that I'm older, I am meeting more people - like yourself - who enjoy fanfiction and who are Christian, and I'm realising that I'm not alone. I'm heading home at the end of the month and hoping to attend church while I'm there, maybe with my godmother if she's up for it. I know that my fears are very specific, but it all spreads to the wider obsessive-compulsive levels and it can make life very difficult as fanfiction gives me pleasure and I don't want my OCD to take away the things that make me happy. Sometimes it feels like you have to choose - between God and between things you like that aren't necessarily conventional to the church but I never fit in with the church crowd anyway. It can be a very difficult dilemma.

I appreciate what you said about God's unconditional love, thankyou. That sounds exactly like the kind of thing my psychologist would have said; a CBT approach. I'm trying to remember everything he told me, but it's so, so difficult. I don't think I'm used to the positives of church, because I've experienced so many negatives due to the disorder. I'll also remember the tips to try and cope with it; I think I need to brush up on my reading. 

Thankyou again; your help and advice has been invaluable, and got me out of my head tonight, so thankyou. I'm worried about waking up in the morning and the anxiety still being there, but first of all, I need to sleep. :hug:

C x

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I'm glad I was able to help a little and I hope you're feeling better today? ? I agree - it's nice knowing we're not alone in our struggles with OCD! I've found this forum so helpful recently for that reason. I've found having support from people who know what it's like really helps going through therapy. 

Regarding fanfiction and what you can post or not, I think I'd try and take the approach my therapist encouraged me to use. Imagine your best friend asked you the same question - if it's a sin, or if it's okay to share what you've written with the public? How would you answer them? I think we're often kinder to our friends than our OCD allows us to be to ourselves, but there's no reason why we shouldn't be kind to ourselves too. OCD doesn't need to make the rules. ?

I hope you're able to go to church next month - try and focus on how proud you'll be if you manage to go! I agree, it can be a difficult dilemma. I bet there are loads of other people in church that worry they don't fit in, or aren't doing the right thing. You won't be the only one! Just remember that you are as much part of the church as anyone else, and just because something is unconventional, it doesn't mean it's wrong. ? I don't know if it would help, but what if you wrote a fic about the religious worries you have? It doesn't have to be something you publish or anything, but you could do it as a therapy exercise. Perhaps you could have a character visit a church and assign them some of the thoughts you have about being there, even if it'd be out of character for them. Have them go through the thought processes you do, and have them find a way to get through it, or have another character help them reason it out? Not saying it'll be easy when you come to do it yourself but it could let you have a pretend practise run while you're more in your comfort zone, but it'd be a fun way to do a therapy thought challenging exercise, maybe? It might be a good exercise in bringing your own beliefs and your enjoyment of fanfiction together rather than worrying how to keep them separate? It's maybe a silly idea but sometimes it helps to imagine someone fictional having your worries, and then helping that character through it. It could help put a little distance between you and your thoughts so you can process them more easily? 

Hope you're doing okay today! :hug:

 

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Thankyou so much, IB. I really appreciate that; your experiences sound a lot like mine. God and OCD together can be a difficult mix and it's especially hard because I tend to fixate. 

I had a relaxing few days but my OCD can dash it all apart in seconds. I was in a bit of a state and sadly the anxiety lingered - I'm now obsessing over 'should I delete the fanfic so I feel better?' but that would make me feel 100 times worse as other users have responded favourably and they might think badly of me if I take it down. I'm sorry to bring such silliness to the board but I just feel bad and bad for feeling bad. I'm due to move house in a couple of weeks and I don't know if I've thought about it a lot - if this is my brain's way of coping with the change and stress. My friends seem to think so. I'm mentally exhausted from the OCD this whole saga has wrought upon me and I just feel so stupid for getting like this over a fanfiction - if it's God trying to tell me something, convicting my spirit. I also feel bad because I feel things had been good recently and it's like I spoilt it. 

Sorry to be a mess about all this but fanfiction has been a strange sort of trigger. I write something I enjoy and then I want to share it with the world, agonise over it and beat myself up. I know God loves me and I'm not writing anything harmful but my brain is not getting the memo and I think there's a lot of good old-fashioned religious guilt in there too. I wonder if I did the wrong thing, if I'm doing the wrong thing and not making the sacrifices others have made for their religion. I'm sorry my fears are so specific and I feel stupid for all this. 

I am actually writing fanfiction about OCD! It does help - it's terribly cathartic. I find it helps me feel better.

Anyway, thankyou for putting up with my strange obsessions. I'm sorry to sound so weird but appreciate your support. :hug:

C x

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You don't sound weird and none of this is silly! OCD is not your fault and it's horrible to deal with. It's definitely not stupid - it can just be difficult to explain to non-sufferers at times because unless you've lived through OCD, it can be hard for people to understand how all-consuming it can be about something that might seem straight-forward to others! Don't apologise for your worries. ?

I think only you can decide whether you want to delete your fic or not, but I think you're right in that it ultimately won't help. It might feel like a relief for a moment, but you'd also be giving in to a compulsion. I think the mantra that goes around here all the time is useful: if you think it might be OCD, it probably is. ? I think what I'd do is treat the doubts as though they are OCD, rather than entertaining the possibility of 'what ifs' about God trying to tell you something. OCD likes us to figure things out - it's okay not to be sure, too! 

I found this article a really helpful read, thought I'd share just in case it's any use to you: 

https://www.accounseling.org/coping-statements-for-christians-with-ocd-scrupulosity/

I particularly like the bit where it talks about Romans 5:1 about us ultimately being at peace with God, regardless of our own feelings. Having these feelings and doubts is human, and it's totally okay to follow treatment for OCD when they are distressing you. :hug: There's also the bit in Peter 5:7, Google has reminded me, where it says 'Cast all your anxiety onto Him because he cares for you'. To me, that sounds as though we don't have to feel anxiety to be religious - which I think includes allowing yourself to seek treatment for the thoughts your OCD brings up. 

As for making sacrifices? It's not helpful to compare, I don't think. Some people give things up for religion and that's healthy enough to do if they feel it's something that helps them focus on their faith because they want to do that. I think it's different sacrificing something you love because of your OCD makes you feel that'd help. I think if I were to go down that route myself, I'd end up sacrificing more and more because the relief of giving something up would only be temporary and make things worse in the long run. ? Do you think you might feel the same if you did give up fanfic? Is there a chance your OCD might just fixate on something different? 

:hug:Don't let OCD win. 

 

 

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Hi Ivy

Thankyou for the help, advice and the link. I'm sorry to have dragged you into this. I've been really struggling over the past few days and don't feel well at all; I'm exhausted, can't focus and very anxious. I actually shouted at an Uber driver this evening on the phone because he was insisting my order hadn't been cancelled when it had and he immediately backed down and left me alone. I'm just so confused and everything is in knots - nothing seems to help and I can't seem to get enough sleep.

I don't know what's happened to me and I feel scared. I've done one thing differently and now everything feels like it's falling apart and I feel guilty and don't know what to do and keep going everything in my head. I feel so stupid for doing this to myself and I'm frightened that I've done something wrong and unforgivable and also like a hypocrite. I'm okay when talking about other things or doing other things but then I settle and it all comes back.

I'm so, so sorry for all this; you're giving me good advice and I can't seem to get it in. There's just been all this stuff going around my head and I kind of want to delete the fanfiction just to give myself some piece, even though I would feel like a hypocrite for doing it - it's a perfectly gentle piece and it's not as if I don't go reading more of the same - and I just feel so horrible; nothing seems to be clicking right now. I'm horribly anxious and feel debilitated. One of my friends was trying to cheer me up at the end of the day and I just couldn't respond. I can't go on like this and I'm scared. I don't know how to relax and just let go. 

Thankyou for your help, even though I don't seem to be doing anything with it. Why do I do this to myself? :(

C x

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On 15/01/2020 at 03:06, Cub said:

if you will because I feel so rubbish as a Christian in comparison

I want to read more of your post, but I'm short on time at the moment.  But real quick I wanted to reply to this idea (maybe its been talked about in the replies below).

God does not expect us to be perfect.  He does not ask us to compare ourselves to others.  To be a "good" Christian if you will is to do YOUR best to live a Christ-like life.  Thats it.  YOUR best.  Each of us has a different path to walk, each of us faces different obstacles and receives different gifts.  He will love you no matter what.  

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Sorry I missed this yesterday. I hope you're doing okay! I agree with dksea, though. We do not have to be perfect. ?

Do you have a doctor or a therapist at the moment? 

I'd suggest don't give in to the compulsion to delete your work: in fact, write and post something else too! Keep challenging your OCD. It's okay to be anxious, OCD just wants us to react to the fear and anxiety. You don't need to ?

Remember to be kind to yourself - this isn't your fault and you can get through it. :hug:

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Hello, you two

My apologies for my lateness; it's been a heck of a week. The staff Christmas party was on Friday - we always have it in January, and this year, I didn't go as I was not well. I just feel so guilty that an OCD episode came about from posting a fic. I was exhausted at work from the resultant OCD and became very tired and depressed. I think the main problem is overanalysing; I'm overanalysing scenes in my head and it's particularly true of my writing. I get a fictional idea and I start going over it at all angles until it feels right. In some areas - some fandoms, if you will - it doesn't feel right, because I'm not sure of the fandom. I keep thinking I'm letting God down if I do this or that and I keep praying for guidance because I'm scared of doing the wrong thing. 

But I also analyse morality; should I do this because I want to, or should I resist? It's all been on my mind recently and it's been hurting me; I don't know what permits as temptation and what doesn't. I just overthink everything and I'm not happy. I feel like everyone else is sure of themselves and I'm not and life is passing me by; everyone else is writing and sharing their work with the world and I'm not. I'm just used to worrying all the time and I'm not sure how else to be. The trouble is, I'm a tour-guide, but really nothing more than an overglamourised security guard and I'm alone with my thoughts a lot of the time and it's all just hurting me. I'm looking for a new job because my passion for this one is dwindling.

I really appreciate all the support I've been given in this area at a time when I've not been well at all. I feel like a fool and I think I'm seeking something out of my reach, instead of making the most of what's here. It makes me feel unhappy because I get so torn and confused and get so anxious about everything. I don't know what feels right and what doesn't and feel like I'm missing out while I'm trying to figure it out; I write for pleasure but then I also write for an audience and I'm not sure which one is truly me and that makes me obsess and mentally review things and ruminate. 

Thankyou again for all the help.

C x

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