Worried ? & False Memory (Merged Thread)

[Nikki79]

5 minutes ago, paradoxer said:

Try not to engage with the dilemma. It's OCD generated, worth nothing. 

It’s constantly on my mind, constantly it’s so weird. I’m not sure how to shake it 

[paradoxer]

1 hour ago, Nikki79 said:

It’s constantly on my mind, constantly it’s so weird. I’m not sure how to shake it 

It's not particularly weird, it's just OCD. Try (no one's suggesting it's easy ... but it can get easier) to refocus. The thoughts - or 'dilemmas' will come and go. Let them, you can't stop them anyway, nor should you want to ...  allow them in for a second at a time, but no more, and don't engage with them. Refocus. 

[dksea]

13 hours ago, Nikki79 said:

I guess if I had a fundamental understanding of why some thoughts make me feel so convinced than others and I had an understanding then I feel I would do better. For example the thought that upset me last evening wasn’t something I was able to reproduce after and honestly I didn’t want to go there anyway. However perhaps if I understood it well then it wouldn’t have such an impact on me every time it came in. Is this something we can learn? I hope I make sense lol 

The reason some thoughts feel more important than others is pure dumb look and probability at work.
OCD doesn't behave in a constant way, like many biological/neurological processes it waxes and wanes, sometimes its stronger, sometimes its weaker.
When its strong, a thought can get stuck and cause anxiety, and because it did our minds latch on to it as we panic.  Kind of like how if you get frightened you instinctively reach out and grab someone or something.  This creates a feedback loop, the brain thinks the thought is more important, so it pops up more often, and you panic every time you have the thought, so the brain thinks its important, wash rinse repeat.
So why do people often have intrusive thoughts related to things that are important to them?  Well, the things that are important to you are things you think about more often.  So its a sort of mental Russian roulette. If there are six thoughts playing the game and 4 of them are about, say, your family, well, 4 out of 6 times if OCD triggers its gonna be a thought about your family.  OCD isn't ACTUALLY picking and choosing what to attack, OCD isn't a person or a being, it doesn't have a mind of its own, its not consciously choosing what and how to attack you.  Its simply a malfunction, a horrible, life affecting one, but it doesn't CHOOSE to do anything anymore than a bolt of lightning CHOOSES where to strike.  While it can be helpful for some people to treat OCD as a metaphorical being or person for purposes of recovery (and thats fine, I have at times done that) at the end of the day its just a biological/neurological glitch.  There is no deeper meaning to which thoughts get stuck than there is deeper meaning to what I was thinking when I had an asthma attack.  Its just bad luck.  There's no deeper meaning than that.

[Caramoole]

2 hours ago, dksea said:

At the end of the day its just a biological/neurological glitch.  

It may be.....but I don't think that's proven.  It may be just a disordered, emotional response and reaction to the type of thought experienced by most people at some time. .  I tend to err on the latter....but that's a personal belief.  I feel that the intrusions are often a result of the normal scanning and observation process that the brain does.  That it views information presented to it, considers the various interpretations (all of them) offered and we then react in a particular way.

Looking at Nikki's scenario of changing her baby.....we have a naked or semi-naked child and we're changing a nappy......we see private parts....we might con sider how different they look to our own, we consider how vulnerable a baby is, how they rely on us, how powerless they are, how they rely on our protection.  In a millisecond we think why did we have that thought, why did I even think that? I must be a monster.  My child must be in danger.  There was a simple, normal observation that we attributed a fear thought to.  We do it all the time....don't stand too near to the railway platform in case you trip.  That woman serving me has just sneezed all over my sandwich, I might catch her cold.  Depending on the outcome or how important it is, we react differently.

When it's something as precious as your childs safetly & well-being the fear reaction and attempt at safety measures or avoidance will be strong.  The security settings are set too high, we are trying to be too safe.  Never has a child been safer.

Good outcome results from change in response, in behaviour, in understanding, in reaction to thoughts.....regardless of cause, which is yet very much under debate.  

For what it's worth, I think Nikki's OCD is of the worst, cruellest kind.  It's horrible that an anxiety condition can rob a person of  what should be such a precious time in their childs life, one that can't be re-lived,....but with understanding, faith & courage, that can be changed.....regardless of (yet unknown) cause.

Nikki....you have the explanations....the theoryv is there from so many sources.....your therapist, here, books, your family......we're asking you to trust, hold your nose & dive in.......scary, I know.......but there lies the freedom.  You know full well, you'd do anything for your little girl.....do your very best to do this for her, trust.

[dksea]

4 hours ago, Caramoole said:

It may be.....but I don't think that's proven.

Twin studies have been done that basically show that it is at least partly biological in origin.  Identical twins show a drastically higher incidence of it occurring in both compared to non-identical twins.  There is basically no explanation other than a genetic component for that. The exact details of how the brain is malfunctioning may not be understood, but if it weren't at least partly biological there would be no difference in the twin studies between identical and non-identical twins.

[taurean]

I think the OCD-UK website lists a few possibilities. 

My biological sister and I both have OCD with a common area, the unwanted ability to lock things into our mind. And we both have suffered since our teens. 

So for me whatever the issue is within the brain it can have a genetic link. 

For me, the brain doesn't process certain theme(s) normally I. E. as others would. 

It seems that this takes the form of unwanted threat against something particularly dear to us. 

Contamination - ours and/or others' health 

Relationships - self-explanatory 

Sexual Preference - our true sexual bias 

Harm - threat to self or others 

That seems to me to be a common feature. 

All of these target our true core values with  falsehood exaggeration or revulsion. 

In Nikki's case the target is suggesting improper behaviour towards her child. It also does that with her nieces I remember. Believing this possibility causes the disorder part of the OCD. 

Exactly how the illness works in the brain well we can hypothesise but our focus is really better steered towards challenging the way we think and feel through CBT and determining to believe what we learn from that and stop listening to what our mind is telling us. 

It's the clash between that and our true core values that causes the anxiety response, the compulsion reaction and strengthens not weakens the intrusions. 

To get better we must break the cycle that does this. We may need to take a leap of faith to believe what we are told against what our brain is telling us. So we take that leap. 

When the intrusions come, we must learn not to  connect, stop carrying out compulsions and get on with our daily lives just leaving the intrusions be. 

Without belief without compulsions the anxiety should gradually drop and the intrusions lose power and frequency. 

It isn't easy, I am on this pathway currently myself, but it is proven to work once the important CBT work has previously been undertaken. 

[paradoxer]

Although OCD invariably focuses on things that are deemed important, that's not always the case. Also there are times when something 'matters' desperately, with fraught urgency, only to matter not an iota the following day. I tend to go with the misfiring brain, but I think one thing's apparent, that from a therapeutic perspective (not  an academic one), an inordinate focus on the 'why' can be a dangerous thing. OCD's random rubbish doesn't warrant introspection or serious analysis - those can actually feed in to the disorder's 'this must be important' narrative.    

[paradoxer]

1 hour ago, dksea said:

Twin studies have been done that basically show that it is at least partly biological in origin.  Identical twins show a drastically higher incidence of it occurring in both compared to non-identical twins.  There is basically no explanation other than a genetic component for that. The exact details of how the brain is malfunctioning may not be understood, but if it weren't at least partly biological there would be no difference in the twin studies between identical and non-identical twins.

Concur. 

[Nikki79]

Perhaps then delving into the why and what nots doesn’t help but I have to agree with Caramoole in saying my type of OCD is pretty horrible and don’t mean to take from anyone else who suffers from OCD as I know how debilitating it is indeed for everyone who has suffered. It was pretty awful having to speak to a Mental Health Nurse a few weeks ago who told me ( and just as a standard procedure) that if my child was in any way of danger she would have to report this to the authorities. The Nurse has also gone above and beyond herself to help me the last few weeks and she is has put me up the top of the list for urgent help. She trained under a Doctor who specialised in OCD in Dublin so she does seem to know her stuff.

Guys thank you so much for all your written replies, I’m always so grateful for people who take the time out of their lives to help me, a stranger really who is having a very hard time. My God bless you all. 

You know I could have very easily decided not to have a child and allowed my OCD AGAIN to rob me of more beautiful life experiences and joys but I consciously chose to have my little girl always knowing in the back of my mind what happen. I have always tried to live around my illness and not in unison with it. It’s been very difficult since the age of 21 until 40 now to sustain jobs, relationships etc but I have always tried. The first diaper change my partner did as I was too scared but I can do them now most times without anxiety or compulsions. It just seemed to happen to me that from November 2019 until now I became retrospective and looked back at all the anxiety and stuff that happened since moving back to Ireland with her and that’s where the problems really arose and thinking of times of when maybe something happened etc.. I’m lucky to have a wonderful little girl however who makes life otherwise pretty easy for me. A little angel sent to me. My heart isn’t broken though and hope for brighter days. 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Nikki79

[Nikki79]

Update I just heard from the Nurse and it’s going to be three weeks until I can see anyone to hep me. I really feel so low as I can’t go on the way I am going. I’m just existing and not living. Just wondering does anyone have any suggestions as what to do to help? Thanks Nicola

[Bewildered again]

Hi nikki are you on any medication? 

[Nikki79]

1 minute ago, Bewildered again said:

Hi nikki are you on any medication? 

Hi Bewildered I’m currently on 20mg Escitalopram and .5g Loraxapam twice daily 

[Bewildered again]

Has it helped at all. Strangely my name is nikki also and I live in Ireland. 

[taurean]

2 hours ago, Nikki79 said:

Update I just heard from the Nurse and it’s going to be three weeks until I can see anyone to hep me. I really feel so low as I can’t go on the way I am going. I’m just existing and not living. Just wondering does anyone have any suggestions as what to do to help? Thanks Nicola

I can Nikki. 

I am currently just only functioning in a bad OCD episode but have been able to get some private therapy. 

The therapist is trying an additional approach(over the top of the OCD) to seek to gradually break the hold of the obsessing and compulsing and enable me to function better before getting back to the CBT approach. 

It's called compassion focused therapy. 

Work out what your behavioural responses are to the OCD and write them in a circle called threat . Overlap the circle with another circle called drive, representing the things you do to try and control the threat. Then add another circle overlapping and call it soothe, things you can do to break the power of the engagement between threat and drive. Soothe includes detachment by music walking TV reading writing talking to friends, cooking whatever takes the mind away from the obsessing and compulsing represented by threat and drive. 

You will probably consider that at the moment you can redraw the threat circle very large, the drive circle a moderate size, the soothe circle is probably small. 

The aim is to work on building up the soothe so it becomes a much bigger circle, at the same time diminishing the size of the other two circles. The idea is doing this eases the stress and anxiety and reduces the power of the obsessing and compulsing - thus making us feel better and more able to function, then ready to go back to working the CBT. 

I only was taught how to do this today and I am to do it for a week and we will review at my next session next week. 

I don't know how successful this may be but it is something that can be tried so it's a positive. 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by taurean

[Nikki79]

1 hour ago, taurean said:

I can Nikki. 

I am currently just only functioning in a bad OCD episode but have been able to get some private therapy. 

The therapist is trying an additional approach(over the top of the OCD) to seek to gradually break the hold of the obsessing and compulsing and enable me to function better before getting back to the CBT approach. 

It's called compassion focused therapy. 

Work out what your behavioural responses are to the OCD and write them in a circle called threat . Overlap the circle with another circle called drive, representing the things you do to try and control the threat. Then add another circle overlapping and call it soothe, things you can do to break the power of the engagement between threat and drive. Soothe includes detachment by music walking TV reading writing talking to friends, cooking whatever takes the mind away from the obsessing and compulsing represented by threat and drive. 

You will probably consider that at the moment you can redraw the threat circle very large, the drive circle a moderate size, the soothe circle is probably small. 

The aim is to work on building up the soothe so it becomes a much bigger circle, at the same time diminishing the size of the other two circles. The idea is doing this eases the stress and anxiety and reduces the power of the obsessing and compulsing - thus making us feel better and more able to function, then ready to go back to working the CBT. 

I only was taught how to do this today and I am to do it for a week and we will review at my next session next week. 

I don't know how successful this may be but it is something that can be tried so it's a positive. 

 

I’ve had to read that a few times to get that hang of it but it sounds pretty good. What kind of cbt will you pursue after this method then? I’m not sure have I ever done enough cbt to deal with ocd if I’m perfectly honest. 

[taurean]

The standard format of OCD. You already know that the thoughts  feelings urges and supposed memories of OCD are fabrications, as we have said and no doubt so has your therapist.

you have to start believing this, stopping the response to the intrusions in the form of anxiety that it is true and not OCD. Only you can do this. You have to belief that what you have been told is true and respond accordingly. 

[Nikki79]

3 minutes ago, taurean said:

The standard format of OCD. You already know that the thoughts  feelings urges and supposed memories of OCD are fabrications, as we have said and no doubt so has your therapist.

you have to start believing this, stopping the response to the intrusions in the form of anxiety that it is true and not OCD. Only you can do this. You have to belief that what you have been told is true and respond accordingly. 

So I have to believe it’s all lies but then Taurean I get all these new thoughts about the worries that bother me giving me images that are familiar in some form and of course lead me to think there is truth in it. 

[Caramoole]

24 minutes ago, Nikki79 said:

I get all these new thoughts about the worries that bother me giving me images that are familiar in some form and of course lead me to think there is truth in it. 

Nikki, you keep repeating this and we know that.  That is OCD.  There are hundreds of replies explaining this, all in different ways that might just "speak" to you.....but all of them explain the need to follow the advice and start steadily to change how you react & respond when these thoughts and doubts happen.  Only you can start that process.  No amount of explanation is going to flick a switch and make this stop.  I know it's so hard and it scares you but it is so worth trying to follow the suggestions

43 minutes ago, Nikki79 said:

I’m not sure have I ever done enough cbt to deal with ocd if I’m perfectly honest. 

Have you ever read "Break Free From OCD"?

[taurean]

The problem is the more we believe the OCD , the stronger it gets. So by not applying the therapy we actually make things much worse.

Everyone that improves will have worked on their behavioural response, brought down the anxiety response  and stopped the compulsions.Nothing else will deliver the desired result.  

If you look back at the various success stories on the forums that is what you will see, 

Break Free is an easy to follow, midi-sized, quite large print paperback book. It is excellent and it takes a sufferer right through the whole CBT process. 

[Nikki79]

2 minutes ago, taurean said:

The problem is the more we believe the OCD , the stronger it gets. So by not applying the therapy we actually make things much worse.

Everyone that improves will have worked on their behavioural response, brought down the anxiety response  and stopped the compulsions.Nothing else will deliver the desired result.  

If you look back at the various success stories on the forums that is what you will see, 

Break Free is an easy to follow, midi-sized, quite large print paperback book. It is excellent and it takes a sufferer right through the whole CBT process. 

I think that is where I’m at having put too much importance on to the latest thought worry and finding it harder to hear what people are saying and failing to believe in OCD.

[taurean]

So how do you propose to change that Nikki? What will you do in response top the next thought? Have you noted down the various obsessions you get, in what form, how you respond emotionally and the compulsions you carry out to try and mitigate the distress ? (these will be ruminating, re-assurance seeking, avoidance , googling and the like). 

When you have do that you can see that obsessions plus compulsions equal disorder aka OCD. The illness operates through falsehood, lies, fabrication - words, thoughts or images. It seems real because they come through our brain. That's why we think we ought to believe them. 

Edited January 24, 2020 by taurean

[Nikki79]

I guess I have some work to do lol. I feel something is changing tho and things are coming a bit better for me. I am starting to believe it’s OCD and not me.

[Nikki79]

Hi guys just updating you to let you know I am know doing what you wonderful people said and also what Taurean said and believing the OCD is at work. No thoughts/worries are more important that others and I must treat them all the same. I’m not perfect but I’m getting there and thank you so much for all your tireless endless concern and support which I really appreciate. I want to beat this x

[taurean]

Well done Nikki. Keep going with this. 

[Nikki79]

5 hours ago, taurean said:

Well done Nikki. Keep going with this. 

Thanks Taurean. I can’t explain it but that only a sense of well-being and calm has come over me and a different attitude.