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Dave321

HOCD or shame

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I was on another ocd message board and was told by 2 or 3 people I am gay and just having shame about my sexual attraction.    I think it could be true.   I want this to be ocd but it really doesn't feel like it anymore.  I thought I was getting groinal responses for years when it could actually just be normal attraction and arousal seeing something male body related.  I also used to check my reactions by masturbating about men and thought it was checking but now think I do it for enjoyment or to relieve myself and was told ocd people do not do this and that this is acting on your thoughts which ocd people do not do.  The fact that I can get aroused and orgasm is proof I was told.

I was told this is just shame.  

I think I am different to other guys too. I notice I have no protruding adams apple, that my hips are wider than normal and that I have the gay finger ratio so everything makes me think I was exposed to low testosterone in the womb and this affected my orientation.

How do I know if its shame or ocd?   If I can get off to the thoughts is that proof?  When I get a groinal response my heart sinks. but is that shame or anxiety from ocd?

Edited by Dave321

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Guy with 88 posts on an OCD forum, talking about shame re a 'groinal response'. What do you think? 

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You've been thinking you're gay for years and telling us every few months. How's thst working out for you?

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Maybe you are gay? maybe you're not? but you're definitely ruminating on the subject so there is an element of OCD there I'd say. Nothing wrong with being gay though, mate!

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Terrible obviously but I was told its shame and not accepting it and thats the only way to move on.  I don't know who to believe.  I wan tit to be ocd.  Is that bias in my own head clouding my judgement so I cant see the truth?

I still get crushes on women but dont get groinals looking at them and my sex drive for them has plummeted and totally disappeared.  I now avoid dating girls altogether.

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1 minute ago, BigDave said:

Nothing wrong with being gay though, mate

No there is nothing wrong with being gay whatsoever. So why are you feeling shameful? Wheres the worry coming from?

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1 minute ago, BigDave said:

Maybe you are gay? maybe you're not? but you're definitely ruminating on the subject so there is an element of OCD there I'd say. Nothing wrong with being gay though, mate!

People including my family say its ok and they love me no matter what I am but it doesn't help as I am afraid of my own bodily reactions.   I was told this could be shame.  But it could be ocd.  I dont know.

 

They saay people with ocd know deep down who they are.  I dont.

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1 minute ago, BM94 said:

No there is nothing wrong with being gay whatsoever. So why are you feeling shameful? Wheres the worry coming from?

I grew up int he 90's.  Late 30's now and I went to a new school age 12 and got called gay for a whole year and was bullied.  At the time I didn;t take t to heart but looking back I reckon they maybe knew I was gay and I didnt.

That Phillip Schofield story has spooked me out too.  I am afraid that I will end up coming out in middle age and feelign shame and embarrassed.

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Dave321 said:

That Phillip Schofield story has spooked me out too.  I am afraid that I will end up coming out in middle age and feelign shame and embarrassed

So again, why would you feel shame and embarrassment?

Look, if you're attracted to dudes then that's the way it is. It is OCD to overthink your 'groinal responses', but to feel attracted to a guy is just the way it is for you. 

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Just an FYI for everyone... Dave is a long time poster  though under different screen names. For at least six years, he has been coming here regularly, seeking reassurance.  

He has OCD but refuses to listen to us or do anything about it. He comes here and posts the same things, over and over, about how he must be gay, how he has this stupid gay finger ratio (which doesn't exist), etc, etc.

He won't seek professional help because years ago he went for it and it did no good.

Dave is incredibly stuck. For the longest time, he was on here telling us he didn't have OCD, while regularly visiting a coming out forum. It was a terrible compulsion that really messed things up.

Telling him gay is okay won't work because he has OCD with sexual orientation obsessions. They keep coming back no matter what anyone says.

Dave needs to want to change, to break the long term cycle he is stuck in. Many of us have tried to encourage that to no avail. 

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9 minutes ago, BM94 said:

So again, why would you feel shame and embarrassment?

Look, if you're attracted to dudes then that's the way it is. It is OCD to overthink your 'groinal responses', but to feel attracted to a guy is just the way it is for you. 

Do people agree with this?  I am gay?  This guy has been following me on other forums saying this to me all the time. 

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Dave, I have known you, through your posts, for the six years I have been on this forum. Your problem was OCD six years ago and it is OCD today. Nothing has changed. None of your thousands of words wtitten in that time have changed my mind even a bit.

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3 minutes ago, Dave321 said:

Do people agree with this?  I am gay?  This guy has been following me on other forums saying this to me all the time. 

Dave, as someone who seeks reassurance more often than I should, I need you to understand that by asking us to give you an answer, you're doing yourself no favours. You are constantly racking your brain about this and going over and over at it in your mind. You've said yourself that your family would support you no matter what. The Philip Schofield thing should also prove to you that we are in a world where it is ok to love whoever you want to. Groinal responses don't mean everything but whatever the circumstances, it doesn't matter. Usually when people are unsure if they are gay or not, they will go on dates with men who are like-minded and see if there is any attraction. Going on dates with women too may open your mind. The more you focus on what your groin is doing, the more likely it is you are going to notice the slightest change in your groin in terms of responses. For example, I think things touch my lap all the time because I feel the slightest movement. That doesn't actually mean something has touched my lap. Anyway, no one here is going to be able to tell you if you're gay or not. This is something that you have to find out yourself but ruminating on the problem isn't going to help matters.

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This guy BM thinks I'm gay. Either he is right or deliberately winding me up and spiking me on purpose on this and other forums.  Why is that tolerated? If he told someone they were a paedophile on here there would be uproar.

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2 minutes ago, BigDave said:

Dave, as someone who seeks reassurance more often than I should, I need you to understand that by asking us to give you an answer, you're doing yourself no favours. You are constantly racking your brain about this and going over and over at it in your mind. You've said yourself that your family would support you no matter what. The Philip Schofield thing should also prove to you that we are in a world where it is ok to love whoever you want to. Groinal responses don't mean everything but whatever the circumstances, it doesn't matter. Usually when people are unsure if they are gay or not, they will go on dates with men who are like-minded and see if there is any attraction. Going on dates with women too may open your mind. The more you focus on what your groin is doing, the more likely it is you are going to notice the slightest change in your groin in terms of responses. For example, I think things touch my lap all the time because I feel the slightest movement. That doesn't actually mean something has touched my lap. Anyway, no one here is going to be able to tell you if you're gay or not. This is something that you have to find out yourself but ruminating on the problem isn't going to help matters.

I dont want to go on dates with men!  Do people not get this is EXACTLY what I am  ******* terrified of!!!!

Why dont you tell the pocd people on here to go and fiddle with kids to see if they like it FFS.  The posts on here will drive me to suicide.

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3 minutes ago, Dave321 said:

I dont want to go on dates with men!  Do people not get this is EXACTLY what I am  ******* terrified of!!!!

Why dont you tell the pocd people on here to go and fiddle with kids to see if they like it FFS.  The posts on here will drive me to suicide.

So basically, you're saying that you don't want to go on dates with men but you're asking us if you think you're gay? Just think about what you're saying? 

I'm not going to respond further - you're asking for reassurance.

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6 minutes ago, Dave321 said:

This guy BM thinks I'm gay. Either he is right or deliberately winding me up and spiking me on purpose on this and other forums.  Why is that tolerated

Sorry you feel that way Dave321 but I dont know you and not for a second did I say you were gay, I'm going off what you said in your posts.

As a gay person myself, I feel that it is unfair for people to say they are ashamed and embarrassed by thinking they are. Doesn't make me feel particularly good about myself does it?

Thank you for filling us in @PolarBear

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But the voice in my head says I am closed minded and just wont accept myself and would enjoy it and if I allowed myself to have sex with men then all this torment would be over.  But my whole will and soul doesn't want to ever do that and is absolutely terrified of it.

It's like I am living in a nightmare.  A bit like in Back to the Future 2 when Marty goes back to an alternate 1985 where things just feel weird and wrong. 

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1 minute ago, BM94 said:

Sorry you feel that way Dave321 but I dont know you and not for a second did I say you were gay, I'm going off what you said in your posts.

As a gay person myself, I feel that it is unfair for people to say they are ashamed and embarrassed by thinking they are. Doesn't make me feel particularly good about myself does it?

Thank you for filling us in @PolarBear

Yes you did. You said it on this and the other forum if that was you which I reckon it was.  You have followed me around on this and other forums saying I am gay and that's just the way it is for me. 

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Isn't it interesting, Dave, that you've spent six years trying to convince us you are gay, yet the moment someone suggests maybe you are, you get upset.

Food for thought.

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I am not a sane person!!!  Do people really think I know whats going on with myself?   I haven't a clue.  My head is spinning.  I have people like BM telling me I am gay and then you say its ocd and others saying you need to go figure it out.   Why are people messing with my head??  If its so obvious why isn;t everybody saying its ocd??  There must be serious question marks. :(

There is such double standards on here, I post what once every 2 or 3 months and people post pocd worries every day yet they constantly get reassured they are not paedos and there is infinite patience and sympathy for them.  I get told I am gay or told to stop posting the same stuff and am vilified as this useless person who wont help himself.  I am broke and unemployed. No money. Lives at home.  Afraid of my own body. 

I feel like my body no longer belongs to me and belongs to a gay man but my mind is still the old straight me. I am terrified when my groin so much as tingles the slightest amount.

Edited by Dave321

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First, the other people posting on this thread are relatively new and don't have a six year track record with you. They don't have the background knowledge about you.

Second, what would you have us do? I, and others, have CONSISTENTLY told you, for at least six years, that your problem is OCD and not being gay. We have bern absolutely consistent with that message. But you won't listen! We told you repeatedly to stop going to emptyclosets or whatever, because it was a compulsion, but you kept going. 

We told you that you need professional help but you dismiss this because you tried it once. We have told you this gay finger ratio is bull!!! but you constantly bring it up. We gave tried and tried and tried to help you but you won't listen.

So what would you have us do? Quite a few people here will not talk to you because it is pointless. We don't know what else we can do. You come here with the same old story, you ignore our advice and try your best to convince us you are gay.

So what do you want us to do? 

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4 hours ago, Dave321 said:

There is such double standards on here, I post what once every 2 or 3 months and people post pocd worries every day yet they constantly get reassured they are not paedos and there is infinite patience and sympathy for them.  I get told I am gay or told to stop posting the same stuff and am vilified as this useless person who wont help himself.  I am broke and unemployed. No money. Lives at home.  Afraid of my own body. 

Ok a few things to unpack.

First, different people respond on different posts, "this forum" is not a singular entity that responds to everyone using the same mind, but many many individuals, few if any who are trained mental health professionals, just trying to help, we are not going to be perfect, we are not always going to agree on how best to respond to each person, and the right way to respond to each person can vary for a number of reasons.

Second, setting aside the above, and that reassurance is generally not the best approach anyway, there is a significant difference between being gay and being a pedophile.  One is ok, the other is not.  Whether or not you are gay doesn't really change anything, you aren't a danger if you are gay.  Treating these two situations as if they are somehow related is part of your problem.

Third, you come here demanding that we tell you whether or not you are gay or whether or not you have OCD.  As PB has said, many of us have told you multiple times that we believe your problem is OCD.  We have explained WHY we believe its OCD.  We can't guarantee it 100% because A) we are not qualified to make official medical diagnosis in general and B) we are not meeting with you in a setting to even make a formal diagnosis if we were certified to do so, and C) because there is not 100% guaranteed test for OCD.  No matter what we tell you, whether we say you are gay (which people have on other forums) or its OCD (which many of us have told you here) you still feel doubt (which is consistent with OCD).  IF you have OCD us telling you isn't going to solve your problem.  You likely need professional help, but at the very least you need to understand and accept that you feeling doubt IS the problem in the first place.  You are trying to solve the problem by ignoring the problem, by demanding people give you a clear answer.  We could tell you the same thing every day for 100 years and it wouldn't change things because YOU need to change things if you want to recover from this.

Fourth,  why are different people giving you different answers?  Well among other reasons, because its unlikely many of the people on a gay support forum have experience dealing with OCD.  Also, because people have different levels of knowledge and understanding.  The reason there are ??? isn't because one or the other of your fears is true, its because people just don't know and are making their best guess.  Even IF there was one and only one possible answer to your problem, there is absolutely no guarantee that you'd get the same response from every person.  Hell, we still have a sizable number of people who think the earth is flat!  You really think the solution to your problem is to wait til every single person on earth tells you the exact same thing?  Does that sound reasonable to you?

If you want to get over this you need to admit that what you have been doing isn't working and that you need to change your approach.  If you are going to seek out our advice you have to be willing to take it and try INSPITE of the doubt you feel.  Otherwise why bother even coming here?  If you are going to ignore what we say, then what good is being served?

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8 hours ago, Dave321 said:

What do you mean? 

It's not too complicated. What's the likelyhood that someone has posted that many times on an OCD forum, and refer to 'groinal response' ... about the only time I see the phrase it's in relation to OCD, and for said OCD not to be part of the equation?

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