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OCD and Coronavirus


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Ashley’s figures from the Telegraph about Italy are similar to Chinese data in yesterday’s Guardian. The Chinese data set is more detailed with age and preexisting conditions in tabulated columns. The preexisting conditions are placed in rank order in terms of their effect on mortality. The British charities which deal with these conditions are issuing updates on their web sites on how to deal with the situation. Incidentally Ashley is quoted twice in a related article in the Guardian.

Edited by Angst
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My mum is not allowing any food or other items into the house that haven't been wiped with disinfectant as a result of this - I suffer with contamination OCD but I am just as afraid of ingesting chemicals as I am of ingesting germs. I am stuck between a rock and a hard place :(

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6 minutes ago, Mermaid said:

My mum is not allowing any food or other items into the house that haven't been wiped with disinfectant as a result of this

Does your mum have OCD Mermaid? 

Of course, OCD or not, this is very much an unnecessary action with the primary contact for contraction through droplets coughed out by an infected person that we inhale (I believe) or touching our mouth/nose with droplets on our hands.   We don't know how long the virus stays on surfaces, but the risk is not thought to be great as you rightly state, I would suggest you're at more risk from the chemicals.  

Something I forgot to highlight this morning to offer a form of reassurance is that even coming into contact with an infected people does not guarantee cross infection.  Last week it was announced that the Forest owner, who also owns Greek side Olympiakos had tested positive. A couple of days before he had been watching both Olympiakos playing at Arsenal and Forest and had of course shaken hands with his players and the staff of both clubs.  Both sets of players and staff were all tested and all came back negative. 

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1 minute ago, Ashley said:

Does your mum have OCD Mermaid? 

Of course, OCD or not, this is very much an unnecessary action with the primary contact for contraction through droplets coughed out by an infected person that we inhale (I believe) or touching our mouth/nose with droplets on our hands.   We don't know how long the virus stays on surfaces, but the risk is not thought to be great as you rightly state, I would suggest you're at more risk from the chemicals.  

Something I forgot to highlight this morning to offer a form of reassurance is that even coming into contact with an infected people does not guarantee cross infection.  Last week it was announced that the Forest owner, who also owns Greek side Olympiakos had tested positive. A couple of days before he had been watching both Olympiakos playing at Arsenal and Forest and had of course shaken hands with his players and the staff of both clubs.  Both sets of players and staff were all tested and all came back negative. 

 

I think she must have OCD or OCD traits but she has not been diagnosed as she insists that she doesn't. I told her that not touching items for days or a week to allow the virus to die as it won't live on surfaces for longer than that would be safer than cleaning them with disinfectant but she told me that she heard on the news that people have been ordered to remove or sterilise outer packaging where possible. She also said that I am putting my family at risk by requesting to not have food cleaned in this way so I feel guilty :(

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2 minutes ago, Mermaid said:

she heard on the news that people have been ordered to remove or sterilise outer packaging where possible.

Which news?!!!!   There are news outlets and then there are new outlets!    Anything like this always double check NHS and gov.uk websites. Nothing about this on the NHS site yet - https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/

 

 

4 minutes ago, Mermaid said:

She also said that I am putting my family at risk by requesting to not have food cleaned in this way so I feel guilty

Obviously the OCD is going to add to the sense of guilt your mum is bringing to your door. But try not to let anybody make you feel guilty Mermaid, I assure you, if it helps, I have not washing a food package or product in 25 years (used to be part of my OCD).  I have not done it in 25 years and I dont intend to now.  

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2 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Which news?!!!!   There are news outlets and then there are new outlets!    Anything like this always double check NHS and gov.uk websites. Nothing about this on the NHS site yet - https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/

 

 

Obviously the OCD is going to add to the sense of guilt your mum is bringing to your door. But try not to let anybody make you feel guilty Mermaid, I assure you, if it helps, I have not washing a food package or product in 25 years (used to be part of my OCD).  I have not done it in 25 years and I dont intend to now.  

 

I am unsure, I would like to know too in case she misunderstood the report and I can help her to understand that this is not necessary and even potentially harmful :(

 

Thank you. I know that if someone in my household catches the virus or I do and they catch it from me I will feel terrible and convinced that it's my fault - and I'm sure they will feel the same way. I don't think there's any way to avoid that so I'm hoping it doesn't happen :crybaby:

 

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I don’t suffer from contamination OCD and am not hugely worried about hand washing or catching the virus. However, it is affecting my OCD in several ways.

One of my biggest OCD worries is around losing my job. This has led to compulsions of me avoiding doing my work in case I run out and they make me redundant. My wife’s job was a bit insecure recently as they didn’t have a lot of work coming in. Now with the virus going around it might affect their business and she keeps saying she’s worried she might lose her job, which has really made me panic.

I only work 4 days a week at the moment because I am in a long-term therapy group on a Monday. People there are starting to panic about the virus and they may have to suspend the group for a bit. Work is paying me sick leave for the therapy so if I don’t go I’ll have to go to work instead. I worry I won’t have enough work for 5 days and will get fired.

Finally I’m stressed about the possibility in the future of having to go into isolation as one of my compulsions is to do a certain amount of walking every week. I’m worried I will get fat if I have to stay in.

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2 hours ago, Mermaid said:

I know that if someone in my household catches the virus or I do and they catch it from me I will feel terrible and convinced that it's my fault

Try not to let the OCD push you down that train of thought Mermaid. I know it's hard right now and many will feel guilty equally for passing it on, but two things to remember.

1 - If this becomes so widespread you catch it, then chances are your family would catch it also from someone other than you!   And right now the odds are  about 1 in 68,000 here in the UK (based off Friday figures).

2 - If you do catch it and give it to your family then you are not to blame if you following the rationale and sensible advice to wash hands for 20 seconds after being out etc, then whatever happens would be fate/life and you could not have done any more, it was never your fault.  You did not want it, wish it or choose to get it or pass it on, it's just sad fact of life. So you should shoot down any thoughts of guilt immediately (I know easier said than done). 

It's ok to worry Mermaid, just don't let your mum force you to worry and take excessive actions beyond the recommended advice.

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My ocd has really latched onto the fact that until a few days ago I was quite blase about the virus, I wasn't reading the news and I thought it was all a storm in a teacup. I wasn't being especially careful with hand washing (partly ocd reasons) I wasn't making an effort to wash them when I came home or arrived at work. I was touching my face and biting my nails and probably wiping my nose on my hand (sorry gross) and could have been spreading it everywhere. 

I'm worried that all that time I could have been carrying it and my symptoms might not have materialised yet. I'm worried that I could have passed it on to someone vulnerable through being careless and they might die as a result. 

Since then I have woken up to the seriousness of the situation and I have been much more careful, washing my hands a lot and using hand sanitiser and cancelling arrangements and so on. But it's really churning over in my brain now. 

Edited by gingerbreadgirl
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32 minutes ago, kaheath80 said:

Work is paying me sick leave for the therapy so if I don’t go I’ll have to go to work instead. I worry I won’t have enough work for 5 days and will get fired.

Well I am sure many employers and employees without OCD are worried right now. I don't have all the answers or know your work rights on this kaheath, but I am sure any employer willing to give you sick leave for therapy will not just let you guy for the sake of a lack of one days work. There may be difficulties for some employers, but hopefully employers and employees can be flexible and find solutions together.

 

32 minutes ago, kaheath80 said:

Finally I’m stressed about the possibility in the future of having to go into isolation as one of my compulsions is to do a certain amount of walking every week. I’m worried I will get fat if I have to stay in.

First of all, any self-isolation would be a couple of weeks and whilst if we eat and eat for two weeks we may put on some weight, nothing that can't be undone with some extra exercise post isolation.  There are of course options, for those with gardens then they can bang out some garden miles. Do you have any friends with a cycling machine  they can lend you? (treadmills re big, bulky and heavy so not ideal to borrow one of those). Worst case scenario, depending where you live, if own ground floor place a bog standard skipping rope.    

That said if you have self isolated because you have the virus, how much exercise you will want to or be able to do is another matter!

If the government encourage a shut down of everything and you're not unwell then you can still bang in supermarket miles and to be honest I intend to ride my bike, provided down the country lanes, there will be people walking dogs, they have to.  Whilst shops and cafes will be closed, people will still be roaming around... just not too closely to each other ?

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3 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Since then I have woken up to the seriousness of the situation and I have been much more careful, washing my hands a lot and using hand sanitiser and cancelling arrangements and so on. But it's really churning over in my brain now. 

I am going to be honest GBG, at this time, maybe your OCD is dictating your actions now?  You only need to wash them if you have been out and about.  Bog standard soap and water better than hand sanitiser, but if you;re out and about and cant wash hands then yes use it, but no need to use it that frequently. 

My advise, rearrange an appointment for tomorrow and keep going on the best you can until we're told not otherwise. 

5 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I'm worried that all that time I could have been carrying it and my symptoms might not have materialised yet. I'm worried that I could have passed it on to someone vulnerable through being careless and they might die as a result. 

Similar Mermaid comment, which I have responded too.  Bottom line, if it happens it happens and would not be your fault. 

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Just now, Ashley said:

Similar Mermaid comment, which I have responded too.  Bottom line, if it happens it happens and would not be your fault. 

Thanks ashley. What's worried me though is that until a few days ago I wasn't following government advice which was to wash your hands when you get home etc. (I am now though for sure). So I feel like it would have been my fault. I'm hoping that I'm not carrying though as I think it's only the last week or so the infection has really ramped up. 

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Just now, gingerbreadgirl said:

I wasn't following government advice which was to wash your hands when you get home etc.

Well half of the population didn't do that when using public bathrooms before this!   The fact is, we go about our busy day, even with best will in the world at some point we may touch something and then touch our mouth or nose, it's inevitable. 

Do what you can, when you can, but don't let OCD make you do more than you need to do. 

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20 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Oh no!! ?? that's awful. Hope you're resting up?   

Oh trust me, compared to that bug I had in February I will take a few bruised ribs for a few days ?

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2 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Are you all better from that now? x 

Only had one coughing fit and thrown up once in the last 7 days which was last Monday, and that was first time in a week so fingers crossed yep :)

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58 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Think I have put myself in a high risk group today ?

I fell over this morning and smashed my ribs, breathing is not overly easy this afternoon!   

I'm so sorry Ashley ? I hope you recover soon. I feel over yesterday and am very bruised and have pulled muscles all over the place - ridiculous! Wishing you well :hug:

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2 hours ago, Ashley said:

Well I am sure many employers and employees without OCD are worried right now. I don't have all the answers or know your work rights on this kaheath, but I am sure any employer willing to give you sick leave for therapy will not just let you guy for the sake of a lack of one days work. There may be difficulties for some employers, but hopefully employers and employees can be flexible and find solutions together.

 

First of all, any self-isolation would be a couple of weeks and whilst if we eat and eat for two weeks we may put on some weight, nothing that can't be undone with some extra exercise post isolation.  There are of course options, for those with gardens then they can bang out some garden miles. Do you have any friends with a cycling machine  they can lend you? (treadmills re big, bulky and heavy so not ideal to borrow one of those). Worst case scenario, depending where you live, if own ground floor place a bog standard skipping rope.    

That said if you have self isolated because you have the virus, how much exercise you will want to or be able to do is another matter!

If the government encourage a shut down of everything and you're not unwell then you can still bang in supermarket miles and to be honest I intend to ride my bike, provided down the country lanes, there will be people walking dogs, they have to.  Whilst shops and cafes will be closed, people will still be roaming around... just not too closely to each other ?

Thanks Ashley. If I’m not at therapy I will have to work and I am scared but logically I’m not able to get through all my work at the moment plus colleagues are struggling, so this is probably very much OCD. But I was struggling with that last week before all the virus stuff got worse so I know I will feel very anxious at work in the coming weeks.

I do have an exercise bike but my OCD says I need to exercise and walk. I do have a garden but I usually do more than 5 hours walking a week and I can’t imagine doing that around the garden! I am more worried about the work situation, though.

Sorry to hear you’ve been unwell.

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4 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Thanks ashley. What's worried me though is that until a few days ago I wasn't following government advice which was to wash your hands when you get home etc. (I am now though for sure). So I feel like it would have been my fault. I'm hoping that I'm not carrying though as I think it's only the last week or so the infection has really ramped up. 

Hi Gingerbreadgirl, Most people probably weren't practising 'destination handwashing' (i.e. washing hands when they got home/to work) until recently. I do it because of my fear of Norovirus but I'm definitely in the minority. The fear of causing harm to others by accident sounds like OCD- you weren't being irresponsible, you just hadn't heard the advice yet.

 

Hi Ashley, I hope you're okay after the fall! 

 

Just to mention that wiping products does have some scientific rationale behind it because the disease can spread on surfaces, which includes packaging- for example with several flu virus strains 70% are caught from people touching surfaces (covered in viral particles, that have previously been expelled in droplets in sneezes/coughs) and then rubbing their eyes/nose/mouth; there's some evidence to suggest the same is true of Covid-19 (there's also limited evidence that it might also pass in faeces so hand-to-mouth transmission from surfaces too). However most people won't do it because it's not practical. 

Edited by BelAnna
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9 hours ago, BelAnna said:

Just to mention that wiping products does have some scientific rationale behind it because the disease can spread on surfaces, which includes packaging- for example with several flu virus strains 70% are caught from people touching surfaces (covered in viral particles, that have previously been expelled in droplets in sneezes/coughs) and then rubbing their eyes/nose/mouth; there's some evidence to suggest the same is true of Covid-19 (there's also limited evidence that it might also pass in faeces so hand-to-mouth transmission from surfaces too). However most people won't do it because it's not practical. 

Hello BelAnna,

I'm sure you're right, there's most likely a risk from touching products, and it may be wise to wipe products. But do the risks justify the behaviour? That's down for each of us to decide, but hopefully not allowing OCD to dictate.

There's risks in everything, touching products, exchanging bodily fluids, just as eating public nuts on a bar (yuck), but regardless we still touch the products, we still eat the nuts, I do.

The problem is, I'm not sure it's overly helpful for someone with OCD fears around contamination to know that so I try to encourage accepting uncertainty (normally). Right now I'm trying to get balance between following government advice and balance what's practical and right to do, against what's excessive and going down a dangerous OCD road. 

I'm no expert on any of this, but for now I think washing of products is excessive, and not in the official recommended advice.  

But today we all have to make our own decisions about what's right and wrong, and for some that price may come at dealing with OCD in the future. 

 

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