OCD and Coronavirus

[Gemma7]

I have to agree Ashley. The problem with wiping stuff is it's easy to get stuck in tracking what else has then been touched and so on. It opens a world of wiping and cleaning possibilities. I even saw on This Morning a woman recommend turning the tap off with a kitchen towel because you turned it on when you started washing them. Ok but what about the kitchen towel, what do you do once you've touched that? Wash your hands again? That's an endless cycle. You have to accept some uncertainty and some risk to stop cleaning. 

I hope everyone who's fallen down feels better soon xx

[Handy]

Turn on faucets with a sponge & wash your hands, rinse sponge & use it to turn off faucets. Easy. 

[Ashley]

1 minute ago, Handy said:

Turn on faucets with a sponge & wash your hands, rinse sponge & use it to turn off faucets. Easy. 

No....

No.......

Just No.......

You are not seriously suggesting people engage in an excessive behaviour,  far beyond recommended guidelines are you Handy? You are telling people to engage in an OCD compulsion.

[Ashley]

Apologies Handy, I think you were genuinely trying to offer a practical suggestion to help people. The problem is this would be going too far down the excessive OCD behaviour rather than a 'keeping us safe' practical behaviour. 

[Caramoole]

I don't know where I stand on this to be honest

I think people should follow the guidelines from the government, even as an OCD sufferers.  The situation is so dire that we have to put Coronavirus containment/protection first for ourselves and for others.  It should be kept in mind though that this should not be excessive.  Hand washing only needs to be 20 seconds and not every hour or so, dependent on where you are.  I would say it's okay to clean internal household door handles, loo handles, light switches once......then you house should be okay.  Outdoors stay 2m away from others.  Try not to touch lots of things unnecessarily.  Don't touch your face.  When you get home from being out, immediately wash your hands when you return before touching things in the house.  Disinfect the outside front door handle, security alarm pads.......beyond that, your house inside shouldn't be a danger.  Socially distanced yourself from others.

I'm sorry if anyone disagrees with me but on balance, I think we have to put the virus before OCD.......that doesn't mean you should carry out compulsions, that's wholly different.  You should try and follow the same rules that the rest of the population are doing.  This whole dreadful situation is going to play on peoples OCD, whether that's contamination issues, health issues, fear of losing others, the feeling of generally being under threat.  These are unprecedented times and the normal rules (and risks) have to be looked at differently for the time being.  I am not a hygiene freak at all but I am taking measures as advised, in a non-panicky way.  Only do as recommended NOT the excesses that your OCD will convince you needs doing.

Just a personal opinion

[BelAnna]

Turning the tap off with an elbow or a wipe or a piece of kitchen roll is really important to prevent the spread of infection. Otherwise the viral particles can transfer from the tap back to your hands again, which defeats the object of washing your hands. Alternatively someone with clean hands can turn the tap on for you, if you have family member around to do this OR you can apply hand gel after turning the tap off.

I have contamination OCD and I know that this isn't necessary all of the time but during this epidemic it's very important.

Edited March 16, 2020 by BelAnna

[gingerbreadgirl]

My anxiety is going through the roof. I wash my hands when I get home but then that means I've touched the tap and the bathroom light cord before washing my hands... And then what about anything I've bought I will have touched them in the shop and then they will be in my home. I can work from home in theory and I'm worried about the potential to not see a soul for days and days on end as I can really go off at the deep end if i go too long without speaking to anyone. But at the same time I can't bear the thought of seeing anyone in case I give them this thing. I've agreed to go with b to an operation next Tuesday and I'm really worried about what I could pick up in the hospital and pass on to someone else. 

My ocd is already wreaking havoc. 

[BelAnna]

Just now, gingerbreadgirl said:

My anxiety is going through the roof. I wash my hands when I get home but then that means I've touched the tap and the bathroom light cord before washing my hands... And then what about anything I've bought I will have touched them in the shop and then they will be in my home. I can work from home in theory and I'm worried about the potential to not see a soul for days and days on end as I can really go off at the deep end if i go too long without speaking to anyone. But at the same time I can't bear the thought of seeing anyone in case I give them this thing. I've agreed to go with b to an operation next Tuesday and I'm really worried about what I could pick up in the hospital and pass on to someone else. 

My ocd is already wreaking havoc. 

Hi Gingerbreadgirl, 

1. Turn the taps and light cord off with a little toilet paper OR wipe them once when you first get in with an antibacterial wipe- that prevents the spread of infection from outside of the house. 

2. There is a small chance that items you've bought in a shop are contaminated with the virus. You can wipe them but most people won't. If you live with someone who is 60+ and has underlying health conditions then it might be worth doing but assuming you don't, then it's probably unnecessary. 

3. Working from home sounds like a good idea but it's a personal decision. 

4. Is that your DP who is having an operation? It's likely to be called off unless it's an urgent op. If you do go to hospital then you can prevent yourself spread the infection by putting hand gel on whilst there, washing your hands as soon as you get home. I would also shower and change my clothes but not everyone would.

 

 

 

[Ashley]

23 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

I'm sorry if anyone disagrees with me but on balance, I think we have to put the virus before OCD.......that doesn't mean you should carry out compulsions, that's wholly different.  You should try and follow the same rules that the rest of the population are doing. 

I think I mentioned last night, that individuals have to choose their own path on this.  There are so many grey areas with what is acceptable and what is not, some will do more than others and that is fine.  My job is to help people find what is right for them.  I was speaking to Paul earlier and his advice remains similar what we have been saying really, be safe and ideally follow the recommended advice.   Normally we would encourage each other to hug, lick fingers etc, but for a couple of weeks it's best we don't do that.  That's not to say we can't go and sit on the floor for 10 minutes, that might be exposure for some.

Like you said, follow what the rest of the population are doing with hand washing... not with stockpiling!!!! 

If someone does go beyond the recommended that's understandable. Just try and keep yourself as close to the recommended as you can.   For example with you suggesting washing the taps Caramoole, that is fine, I would suggest more than once a day is excessive. 

Unprecedented times, the best we can do is try and follow the recommendations and not allow social media or our OCD to dictate too much beyond that.

 

[Ashley]

26 minutes ago, BelAnna said:

Turning the tap off with an elbow or a wipe or a piece of kitchen roll is really important to prevent the spread of infection

 

26 minutes ago, BelAnna said:

I have contamination OCD and I know that this isn't necessary all of the time but during this epidemic it's very important.

 

I guess it becomes important if that's what the NHS and health professionals recommend we do, but I don't believe they are.  We have to get the balance right between taking sensible steps and going to extremes.  Also encouraging others to go to extremes is a concern too.

But I do think that is extreme TBH.. unless you are about to do surgery on someone! Of course there is logic to it, but I think that is excessive and that's OCD not necessarily proportionate to what the majority of people would do... speaking as someone who used to do that.  

I guess that's the point Caramoole mentions, following what others are doing is generally a good step and I don't think the vast majority are doing that or is it a recommended advice for the majority of us.  

Again I want to make it clear I am not an expert on this stuff, I just want to try and help and guide people to find the balance. 

 

[BelAnna]

1 minute ago, Ashley said:

 

 

I guess it becomes important if that's what the NHS and health professionals recommend we do, but I don't believe they are.  We have to get the balance right between taken sensible steps and going to extremes. 

But I do think that is extreme TBH.. unless you are about to do surgery on someone! Of course there is logic to it, but I think that is excessive and that's OCD not necessarily proportionate to what the majority of people would do... speaking as someone who used to do that.  

I guess that's the point Caramoole mentions, following what others are doing is generally a good step and I don't think the vast majority are doing that or is it a recommended advice for the majority of us.  

Again I want to make it clear I am not an expert on this stuff, I just want to try and help and guide people to find the balance. 

 

Hi Ashley,

Under normal circumstances I agree that it would be excessive. When there is an epidemic though, it makes sense to do this because the taps might well have viral particles on them, if your hands do. I think it's sensible and for once my Dad who is a Microbiologist agrees! 

[Ashley]

5 minutes ago, BelAnna said:

Under normal circumstances I agree that it would be excessive. When there is an epidemic though, it makes sense to do this because the taps might well have viral particles on them, if your hands do. I think it's sensible and for once my Dad who is a Microbiologist agrees! 

Everything you suggest is sensible, I am not saying you're wrong about the science stuff I really am not, I just think you're advocating unnecessary extremes.  Effectively everything we touch could have particles on them, we simply can't keep wiping every tap, every light switch.  Heck, by your logic my door and car keys should be wiped too.

 

[BelAnna]

5 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Everything you suggest is sensible, I am not saying you're wrong about the science stuff I really am not, I just think you're advocating unnecessary extremes.  Effectively everything we touch could have particles on them, we simply can't keep wiping every tap, every light switch.  Heck, by your logic my door and car keys should be wiped too.

 

Yes I think it's a judgement call. For example if you've just been to a busy supermarket or visited a hospital then your hands are arguably more likely to have Coronavirus on them so turning the tap off with tissue OR wiping the tap is sensible.

If you've popped out for a dog walk, run or a bike ride then it won't be necessary. 

There is an argument for wiping mobiles, car keys and door handles too but again if you're a healthy 18-60 year old then you might decide not to, as it's a slight risk and a lot of effort to avoid it! Also if you're using hand gel regularly then you are less likely to transfer coronavirus from your hands to your car keys etc. 

Edited March 16, 2020 by BelAnna

[Ashley]

 

35 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

 I've agreed to go with b to an operation next Tuesday and I'm really worried about what I could pick up in the hospital and pass on to someone else. 

Are you back in touch? I know I have missed the updates on this.   Being in a hospital isn't necessarily any more risk than going to the supermarket, arguably the hospital may be cleaner.  Being there for a friend/partner/family is important.  Could you pick something up and pass it to someone? Yes.   But then you could simply being in the street or in an office.  Take the risk for your friend. 

[Ashley]

2 minutes ago, BelAnna said:

Yes I think it's a judgement call. For example if you've just been to a busy supermarket or visited a hospital then your hands are arguably more likely to have Coronavirus on them so turning the tap off with tissue OR wiping the tap is sensible.

I don't intend to spend all night on this, I am still in the office and need to go home. But the fact is, we're advised to wash our hands after being out for now (doesn't matter where), at this time the government are not suggesting we then use something else to turn the tap off or get a family member as you suggested earlier.  If that's your choice BelAnna so be it, I am really not comfortable we advocate everybody do that when it's beyond the recommended advice at this time.

[BelAnna]

21 minutes ago, Ashley said:

I don't intend to spend all night on this, I am still in the office and need to go home. But the fact is, we're advised to wash our hands after being out for now (doesn't matter where), at this time the government are not suggesting we then use something else to turn the tap off or get a family member as you suggested earlier.  If that's your choice BelAnna so be it, I am really not comfortable we advocate everybody do that when it's beyond the recommended advice at this time.

Oh sorry Ashley, I didn't mean to hold you back. I really appreciate all of your help and definitely don't mean to make things difficult.

It's fine to just stick to the 20 second handwash guideline because it does reduce the chance of infection.

Edited March 16, 2020 by BelAnna

[Ashley]

Why no need to apologise, my office is only 30 second walk away, but dinner is in... back later.

I do agree with your science BelAnna, honest, just not in complete agreement how to use that data, but hopefully still friends?

[Sophhh]

Thank you Ashley for this post ...

I understand where and why I shouldn't be panicking however I am so anxious becuz my college is doing a show in which is next week as part of our exam and still planning to go forward. I am worried becuz I have to go every day with a room full of people and we have to rehearse for hours all day and I still have to work in which I believe are not closing anytime soon.

Working is the worst becuz I have to clean absolutely everything which massively triggers my ocd from fear of germs coming through the gloves and the fact that I have to handle cash. I find myself washing my hands every 5 minutes from where my fingers touch the coins or the tip of someone's hands but it still isn't enough.

Furthermore I have to still use public transport which I struggle with doing anyway. I was trying to stop doing these compulsions but in the chaos it's literally impossible. It doesnt help when people in the media are all staying in there houses to avoid this situation but you ureself cant...

I'm sorry if this sounds panicked but the anxiety is really getting to me and everything feels out of control even though I know we are all feeling a little on edge atm x

[Ashley]

Hi Sophhh,

I know it's so hard right now. To be honest things will change again before next week I'm sure.

Right now we have to be kind to ourselves and do what we need to do short term in order to get through. Are the rituals you describe new or have you always done that? Don't worry if for now you have to do them, as others rightly suggest do what we can now, we can repair the OCD later.  I guess where possible try not to do more than recommended washing if possible.

Is your journey walkable to avoid public transportation? If it helps it's likely to get less busy on buses and trains over the next few days.

It's not clear what work you do, but short term to limit washing could you use gloves? I dont think anybody would question that at the moment. 

So you get any help or support for the OCD at the moment? 

 

 

[Ashley]

This is now in the government social distancing advice. So to an extent some of what's been said is right.

Quote

clean and disinfect frequently touched objects and surfaces in the home

I.e. taps etc.  It doesn't say how frequently, own judgement on that but I wouldn't recommend going excessive, I.e. each time.   I personally would still use hands to open doors, light switch,  turn tap on/off in office, but that's me.

[Caramoole]

Did I mention taps?  I can't see that.

Basically what I'm saying is give the obvious things in your house a once over just in case you've brought anything in recently.  Thereafter, I think it's pretty safe to not do very much indoors.  Wash your hands often if you're out and about, at work, in someone else's home, after shopping....places where you don't know it is clean.  After any of these things I use hand gel in the car and when I get in.  If your hands are clean you don't need to worry about pull cords and things.  You could offer visitors hand gel or ask them to wash their hands on arrival.  Then try and go about your day.  Take care, follow guidelines (which is more than would normally be necessary) then get on with your day

[Ashley]

6 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

Did I mention taps?  I can't see that.

Meant handles, but ok. It's been a long day, still is.

[Sophhh]

1 hour ago, Ashley said:

Hi Sophhh,

I know it's so hard right now. To be honest things will change again before next week I'm sure.

Right now we have to be kind to ourselves and do what we need to do short term in order to get through. Are the rituals you describe new or have you always done that? Don't worry if for now you have to do them, as others rightly suggest do what we can now, we can repair the OCD later.  I guess where possible try not to do more than recommended washing if possible.

Is your journey walkable to avoid public transportation? If it helps it's likely to get less busy on buses and trains over the next few days.

It's not clear what work you do, but short term to limit washing could you use gloves? I dont think anybody would question that at the moment. 

So you get any help or support for the OCD at the moment? 

 

 

Hi Ashley 

Thank you for your reply.

It's an hour and a half walk to my college so not really ...but my train is still packed full. I can just feel my anxiety going into havoc constantly but I'm praying that my college closes soon. If it doesnt I dont know what I will do as I physically can not stay in a small changing room with that many people.

I have always had fears of contamination but it used to be like if I had a thought I wud try and block it out of my mind or tap items within my room, count numbers, avoid letters associated with them etc. which I all still struggle with. However within the last few years handwashing and cleaning has been an issue. This has skyrocketed over the last few weeks to the point where my hands are so dry and red.

I also am trying to avoid touching my face, altho I have a problem with skin picking (I know its horrible) so am feeling extra stress. 

I work in a cafe, I dont have many hours over the next few weeks so it releases some pressure however I want to wear gloves when handling the cash, exchanging food items etc but dont want to have to explain why to my colleagues altho I suppose they will just think I'm being precautious!

No I'm not currently getting any help, just trying to learn as much as I can about ocd and understand it as I have always tried to hide it my whole life and was beginning to feel like I cud talk about it more obviously before all this!

All the best x

 

[taurean]

Under the BBC mobile news feed there is a helpful strand under the heading Coronavirus. 

"How to protect your mental health" 

[Ashley]

Government advice regarding self isolation if possible virus.  "they may leave the house for exercise and, in that case, at a safe distance from others"