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Things are getting weirder and harder


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Hello everyone.
Hope you are all managing okay and not struggling too much. 

I'm sorry for keep coming back here so often but it seems that only when I post hear I feel safe and sane. I know I've been offered great support every time I've posted here, but today, more like never, I need even more support and help. I'm sorry for asking for so much and for being so selfish.

I don't know if you've read my previous posts, but I suffer from OCD, especially paedophilia OCD and incestuous OCD. I was diagnosed with OCD in October, and since then it has been a continuous battle to accept that I'm not actually a terrible person but just suffering from a cruel disease.

I know what I have to do in order to recover, however, it's really hard to take a leap of faith and accept that this is OCD, especially when new weird things happen every day, and I have no clue how to interpret them. It's even scarier and harder when OCD comes not just in the form of thoughts but also in the form of sensations, feelings and urges, the last three being the hardest to live with.

Some of the new things I've been getting for the past two weeks or so include the following:

  • real feelings of attraction towards younger people than me (I'm 21), and even though I tell myself that this is probably just false feelings created by OCD, I just can't understand how this can be OCD and not me. And I'm saying this because they feel like they are my feelings, they are as powerful as feelings of love and admiration I have towards my boyfriend and best friend. I'm really terrified that this shows that I'm actually attracted to children and I feel really disgusting for typing and practically admitting this. (I'm sorry for any sadness or frustration all these words might cause to anyone reading).
    For example, my brother was watching tv last night in the living room, and I saw a girl (in the show that he was watching) that to me seemed attractive. It felt so weird but so damn real at the same time. I googled her name and she is only 13. I feel like a total creep. And whenever I go back and think about what I thought and how I felt towards the girl, the feelings of attraction are still there, and there are moments when they feel even more powerful comparing to how they felt last night. And now because I can't shake it off, I'm more than convinced that there is some sort of sickness in my brain and body. I used to get this all the time about months ago, but because of the anxiety I was able to tell that it was indeed false attraction; now, I don't get any anxiety and I don't know who I am anymore and all this feels like denial. Moments like this one have been happening on a daily basis now for the past 2 weeks... have I rewired my brain and now I am attracted to children? What is this? Is this still OCD? Please let me know what you think, as this is really disturbing and it's killing me inside... 
  • it feels that I don't want to recover from my OCD, sometimes I even feel a level of frustration when I try not to ruminate or tell myself that this OCD and not me. Do you think this is another sign of denial? I really don't know what to believe anymore as this type of thoughts are 100% convincing. I know I'm maybe looking for reassurance but I haven't seen anyone with a similar thing yet. I'm really worried about this (not more than feelings of attraction but still).
  • lately my thoughts have been happening with no anxiety. The opposite is what actually happens now; whenever I get thoughts related to my themes, especially incestuous thoughts, I feel a strong sensation in my body, I don't know if it's arousal or something similar but if feels like it. And I can't say that I don't hate it. Sometimes it feels like I enjoy it and because of that the thoughts happen voluntarily. How is this even possible? Is this a sign that I have different interests than normal people? Is this a sign that I'm a monster, or developing traits of a monster?

What do you think about all this? Do you think this is still OCD? 

Thank you very much for reading this and I hope you have a peaceful night. 

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Hey Cora,

I still think it is OCD, without a doubt. Again, all of the things you describe, the urges and sensations, are so common in this disorder. Also that last point about not feeling anxiety, I think that is also very common. I think that these experiences are very confusing and they don't feel the same every time. The feelings you describe towards the girl in the film are also very very typical  OCD, you even say yourself that you feel the feeling more strongly than you did last night. It's because you started obsessing about it, you gave it meaning and now it has come back stronger.

As you say, you know what you need to do, but it isn't easy. It is incredibly hard but I think that you're a reasonable person who can see the right path, you are just struggling to move forward on that path. Just take baby steps, keep trying. The OCD will fight back and the feelings will get stronger and weirder, but you just have to keep in mind that it's part of the process and keep pushing forward. 

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23 hours ago, Cora said:

I know what I have to do in order to recover, however, it's really hard to take a leap of faith and accept that this is OCD, especially when new weird things happen every day, and I have no clue how to interpret them. It's even scarier and harder when OCD comes not just in the form of thoughts but also in the form of sensations, feelings and urges, the last three being the hardest to live with.

Hi Cora, 

You're already well on your way to being your own therapist whether you realise it or not. :) 

What makes it OCD is when you interpret your thoughts, feelings and physical sensations as meaning you must like pedophilia and incest. 

What makes you normal is when you interpret your thoughts, feelings and physical sensations as random and unrelated to the content of the thought. 

Everything hinges on that moment when you decide what the thoughts and feelings mean

You're free to interpret things any way you want, so you choose whether to give them a meaning that causes you anxiety and discomfort or whether to give them a meaning you can shrug off so you can dismiss everything as unimportant.

OCD of course is layer upon layer of doubt, but you're also free to choose what way you interpret the doubts when they arise. (If I dismiss the thought without taking action then it means...) 

The only way to become comfortable about 'ignoring' the thoughts and sensations is to ignore them, to give them a meaning that says it's safe to ignore them, which is exactly what someone without OCD does when they get the same thoughts and feelings you get. They interpret them in a way that enables them to dismiss the fear without dwelling on it. 

 

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First, you do not have to take a leap of faith to accept this is OCD. I fully expect you won't believe it for some time. What you need to do is take a leap of faith and accept it MIGHT be true and then treat it as OCD, even though you may not believe it.

Second, you've given examples of your thoughts and asked if we believe it's just OCD. While it is easy and true to say yes, doing so will not help you. It might calm you down for a bit, but soon you'll get new thoughts and you'll want to come back here and ask about them. It's called reassurance seeking and it is a compulsion. Resist the urge to do this.

By no means does this mean you shouldn't come here. We're here to help.

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Hi, 

I've been doing much better for the past days especially thanks to all your help and support which I'm really really grateful for. It's been such a weird time. But definitely not in a bad way.
I've calmed down and tried to work on seeing all this as OCD even though it has been incredibly hard to accept that all the false feelings, sensations and urges I've been experiencing for so long are indeed part of OCD. It is still hard to accept it, and I am very aware that this doesn't happen over night; it's a long, complicated journey and a process that requires time, patience and every day practice.

Now to the main reason for me posting here again (within such a short time): 

I keep having thoughts that I don't want to recover from OCD. I know it's weird and makes no sense, and I can't seem to understand why these thoughts continue to happen so often every single day. And the weirdest and most confusing thing is that I can't (or don't know how to) tell if the thoughts are coming from me, like if I am actually thinking them, or if they are intrusive. They happen so fast that I don't have time to understand whether they are intrusive or not. I try to analyse the thoughts after they happen and understand their origins by focusing on them really hard (this is probably a compulsion) but I never seem to find a clear answer. I am really worried and scared that I actually don't want to recover because these thoughts come in really strong and are really convincing. Sometimes I even have moments where because of these thoughts I feel like I have a hidden desire to act on my thoughts. The desire feels absolutely real, and it seems that I won't reach peace of mind if I don't act on my thoughts. This is very scary to me, and I'm sorry if it sounds scary to you, too, or if it's causing any sort of trouble. I can't stop worrying about it (alongside with other things but they don't seem to matter at the moment) but I really hope that this is still OCD playing with my mind.

Thank you so much for reading this, and I would like to know your opinion about this.  

Thank you again for all your help! Stay safe and take care! 

 

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5 hours ago, Cora said:

I can't (or don't know how to) tell if the thoughts are coming from me, like if I am actually thinking them, or if they are intrusive.

Let's simplify the problem, Cora. :)

ALL thoughts come from you. You are actually thinking them, including the 'intrusive' ones. 

They get referred to as intrusive thoughts simply because they pop into your head uninvited. The content is typically some problem your brain has been chuntering away at in the background trying to solve.

5 hours ago, Cora said:

I try to analyse the thoughts after they happen and understand their origins by focusing on them really hard (this is probably a compulsion) 

Spot on! This is a compulsion and the exact opposite of what you need to do. Allow the thoughts to come and go without paying them attention. 

 

5 hours ago, Cora said:

these thoughts come in really strong and are really convincing. 

All obsessive/intrusive thoughts seem convincing and strong. If they didn't they'd be easy to dismiss. Trouble is, the more attention you give them the stronger the feeling gets and the more convincing they seem. You have to learn to accept their presence with indifference to weaken the feelings you've come to associate with them. 

You do that by accepting the thoughts are just thoughts. They have no meaning and no power. Even the thoughts you have about your thoughts and the feeling you need to act on them is just you thinking they have power that they really don't have - just another meaningless thought. 

 

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Thank you so much for your reply, snowbear. I really appreciate it! And I'm also really thankful for all the time and effort you spend trying to help me and so many other people on this forum! 

I am really sorry for keep coming back here and posting so often the same old thing but after a few days of peace and calm I'm back to being scared that everything I'm currently experiencing shows how different I am compared to people who actually have OCD, which leads me to think that I am a type of person that is sexually attracted to people that you shouldn't normally be attracted to. I would like to give an example (but I apologise beforehand if this is too much):
I spent a lot of time with my parents and brother the other day; we were all in the living room when my brother (he is 8 years old) started kissing and hugging me and my body reacted really strongly to that; the reaction and sensations in my body, like so many other times, were incredibly real and I almost felt like I was going to act on them. During all that time I was having those reactions and sensations my brain was filled with thoughts such as I could snap and do so many things right now/It feels so real/I should do it because it feels real and so much more... And if you think that this is the scariest thing, you are wrong. The scariest thing, and probably the most disgusting too, was that I barely felt any anxiety. I was feeling so calm that the thoughts and sensations felt absolutely normal. This is not all however. Later that day, a similar thing happened with my parents. There was no kissing or hugging with them thought, just talking and normal daughter-parents interaction. And even no physical contact happened I felt a genuine attraction to them. And at some points I would look at my dad's private area and feel some sort of arousal and no anxiety. I would like to mention that I didn't look at him on purpose, it just happened. Having no anxiety gave me so much stress and panic. This is hard and I can't believe it's happening. I'm still trying to see this as OCD though but it's so hard to do so; how can this be OCD when I experience the opposite of anxiety with my brother and parents?! I'm ashamed and disgusted with myself, especially because sometimes it feels like I welcome these situations, thoughts and feelings of arousal.
I'm quite scared at the moment, and no matter how hard I try to ignore all this, I just can't. I need to know whether I'm actually attracted to my family or not. I really don't want to be and all I want is a normal life with my boyfriend. 

I apologise again for complaining and bothering you so much but you are my only help at the moment.

Thank you so much for reading this! I hope you have a nice and calm day! Take care! 

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Hi Cora 

I just wanted to let you know that , I'm really new to the forums, I actually just made my first post a few hours ago and once I read yours I felt that a lot of what you said about , your dad and looking at his private area , but not having the anxiety and the rest of your post matched what's going on with my life perfectly , what you described is a very similar thing too what I'm going through currently , I just wanted to let you know that your not alone , and reading your post has really made me calm me down, as I thought I was the only one going through this exact situation, with the incestous thoughts and feelings ( alot of my thoughts and feelings are identical to yours) but now I know I'm not alone. I hope knowing, that I'm going through a very similar thing helps to relive and calm the distress your in right now, I hope things get better for you. ☺️

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Hi Cora and Blossom. :) 

When anything happens in life we try to make sense of it. That's normal. For example: If I drop this apple it should fall to the floor. If it floats in the air then it means there's no such thing as gravity. You let go of the apple and it falls, confirming that the world really does work according to the rules you've used to make sense of it (gravity exists.)

However, when you try to make sense of it using the wrong rules that's when things get confusing. For example:

' If I feel arousal when hugging my brother there should be anxiety. If there is no anxiety then it means...'  So you hug your brother, feel aroused and scare yourself with whatever you've decided it means. But maybe it doesn't mean what you assume. Maybe you've got the rule about how the universe works wrong. (Apples float in air.) 

If you keep checking to see if you're aroused and then check to see if the result of arousal is anxiety, it's like dropping a barrel of apples one after the other waiting for one of them to float. Convinced that they 'should' float you keep testing your theory, but apple after apple drops to the floor suggesting the rule 'apples should float' is wrong.

That's where you need to start. Question your thinking about what 'should' happen (the rule you use to make sense of your feelings)  and question the rule you use to explain what your responses mean.

There are worksheets which can help you with this, showing how getting the meaning wrong leads to further confusing thoughts and anxiety. A therapist will work through it and personalise the worksheet to you.

(For OCD-UK members, there are worksheet examples in one of the previous Compulsive Reading magazines, Issue 38 from Dec 2017.)  :)

 

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Thank you for another great reply, snowbear! 

I completely understand what you are saying and it makes perfect sense. But my problem is that I'm not even checking for any response when I have physical contact with my brother or any other family member. I used to check and make sure I only have anxiety and no arousal before. But now it's different. The arousal happens as a normal reaction, I don't expect it to happen, I don't want it there, I'm not predicting it but it happens anyway. And because when the arousal happens there is simply no anxiety I'm really scared it means that I'm actually sexually attracted to my brother or my parents.

 

 

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I woke up really hopeless after a dream that involved what I fear the most -being attracted to my brother- and I'm pretty confused and lost at the moment. The feelings in the dream were absolutely the same as the ones I experience in real life. What is this saying about me?

I can't dismiss the feelings I experience every single day. They feel so real and normal. The urges to act on my thoughts feel real and normal, too. I'm more than scared that all this shows how what I have is not OCD but really weird and disgusting sexual interests and desires. I'm so scared and alone and I have no idea how to carry on knowing this is who I actually am: a disgusting and terrible human being. 

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Thank you snowbear , what your explaining is clear to me , and I understood quite well , however could the same idea be applied to my current situation , which is that im starting to believe incest is okay , by that I mean I don't have anxiety or any distress with the thoughts, infact I'm usually trying to find things to support the idea that it's okay - as an example the other day in my mind I was randomly thinking about how gay people have the right to be gay if it makes them happy , and straight after ,I said" just like people who commit incest have the right to if it makes them happy " , I know this is so wrong but for some reason in my head it isn't being displayed as wrong , is this OCD? Is  there anyway I can challenge this to make me forget about the whole thing and just move on ? 

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Hey Cora,

there is no rule about how OCD should feel. You keep setting this criteria - I'm not checking, so it can't be OCD. I don't feel anxiety every time, so it can't be OCD. The fact is that feelings like this can be pretty random. Sometimes they are accompanied with anxiety, but you can't expect the same response every single time. In fact, I'd say that you are experiencing substantial anxiety as a result of these thoughts, but it's not the instant surge of anxiety that you used to get. Instead, it's in all the feelings and behaviours you do after - feeling bad, rumination, feeling hopeless, the dreams. Anxiety is not just that momentary terrifying rush that you get, there are so many more elements to it. You've been experiencing this for a while, so it's not a huge surprise that it's become just another part of your routine and feels normal to you. You keep these thoughts alive with your analysis of them. 

 

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@Blossom750 - it's just a thought you had, what is the big deal? The best thing you could do is to just accept that you had a random thought and move on with your life. There is no need to challenge it. We are allowed to think random things, there is nothing bad about it. 

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Thanks Malina for the advice , I'm trying to move on but for some reason it won't leave me , I think it's simply because I'm constantly thinking that I support the thought or remind myself of it, but I'm going to try to move on from it , thanks! 

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35 minutes ago, Blossom750 said:

Thanks Malina for the advice , I'm trying to move on but for some reason it won't leave me , I think it's simply because I'm constantly thinking that I support the thought or remind myself of it, but I'm going to try to move on from it , thanks! 

It's because you're ruminating about it. Just dismiss this as another random though, don't analyse or try to understand. It is a thought, completely meaningless. 

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On 08/05/2020 at 14:39, malina said:

Hey Cora,

there is no rule about how OCD should feel. You keep setting this criteria - I'm not checking, so it can't be OCD. I don't feel anxiety every time, so it can't be OCD. The fact is that feelings like this can be pretty random. Sometimes they are accompanied with anxiety, but you can't expect the same response every single time. In fact, I'd say that you are experiencing substantial anxiety as a result of these thoughts, but it's not the instant surge of anxiety that you used to get. Instead, it's in all the feelings and behaviours you do after - feeling bad, rumination, feeling hopeless, the dreams. Anxiety is not just that momentary terrifying rush that you get, there are so many more elements to it. You've been experiencing this for a while, so it's not a huge surprise that it's become just another part of your routine and feels normal to you. You keep these thoughts alive with your analysis of them. 

 

Thank you so much for your reply, malina! 
You are right, I keep setting certain criteria for how OCD should feel to me. I will try and stop doing that. 

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I would like to thank everyone who has helped and supported me all this time. I really appreciate it! You are amazing! 

I don't want to be selfish but I need help with a few more questions. I can't stop thinking about them for a single minute and they cause me a lot of guilt and pain. I know that I've asked for so much help lately but I can't seem to move on without sharing the following with you and ask for an opinion.

I have recently been dealing with thoughts like I don't want to recover from OCD. The thing that makes me worry regarding this type of thoughts is that they feel even more real (if I can say that) than other thoughts I had to deal with before. It seems that they have the greatest power in comparison to the other thoughts. And because of this I'm quite convinced that they are true. And whenever I try and say 'No, I do want to recover, how and why wouldn't I want to recover?!' there is a strong overwhelming inner feeling that completely disagrees with what I say, leading me to think that this is denial. (I'm really sorry if it doesn't make too much sense, but I don't know how to explain it better.) And there are times when it does feel like I don't want to recover but be what my thoughts say. Even though I've spent a lot of time trying to research this topic I didn't find any similar cases. Maybe I didn't look for the right sources but it seems that people with OCD don't tend to have this type of thoughts; and this would imply that there is a great chance that I'm dealing with something that isn't OCD. Have you met or read about people that had/have thoughts about not wanting to recover or is it just me?

The second most important problem that I'm dealing with these days is that I think my thoughts on purpose a lot of times. I don't know why I do this (maybe because I like them and that's who I am?!), but after I do it I feel really bad and automatically think that this means I don't have OCD but something more terrifying. There are moments when it feels that I need to think about my disgusting thoughts. It has also come to a point where I even want to think about them. How weird and abnormal this is! I've mentioned this on the forum before when it happened a while ago and the answer I got regarding this made perfect sense. However, that time was different as it only happened once, now it happens every other day, and I don't think I can apply that answer/rule anymore. What do you think about this? Do you think this is a sign that I actually am what my thoughts say? 

Thank you so much for reading this and I hope your weekend is not too bad :)

 

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On 08/05/2020 at 10:28, Cora said:

I'm not even checking for any response when I have physical contact with my brother or any other family member. I used to check and make sure I only have anxiety and no arousal before. But now it's different. 

Not true! 

You ARE still 'checking'. If you weren't you would have no knowledge of the arousal or its abscence. Perhaps a better way of phrasing the compulsion you're doing is registering/ acknowledging. It's a more subtle form of checking, but still a compulsion.

4 hours ago, Cora said:

I have recently been dealing with thoughts like I don't want to recover from OCD. It seems that they have the greatest power in comparison to the other thoughts. And because of this I'm quite convinced that they are true.

You've answered yourself here though you may not realise it. 

YOU give the thoughts their power by doing compulsions (thinking them on purpose is a compulsion, avoiding thinking them is a compulsion, checking, ruminating, denying/countering...all compulsions.)

So it should be no surprise these thoughts feel more powerful (real) than previous ones, because YOU are giving them more importance than previous thoughts. Which is what convinces you they must be true. 

 

On 08/05/2020 at 13:50, Blossom750 said:

could the same idea be applied to my current situation , which is that im starting to believe incest is okay , by that I mean I don't have anxiety or any distress with the thoughts, infact I'm usually trying to find things to support the idea that it's okay

Like Cora, you're applying a rule incorrectly ' (If I'm not anxious then it must be true') 

The lack of anxiety just means you're not anxious any more, no more and no less. This can happen when you become habituated to a thought (bored by it or overfamiliar with it) 

Trying to find things which support the idea its ok is a compulsion (reassurance seeking.) You've switched your attack on the discomfort the thought creates in you from obvious rejection to attempted acceptance - but you're still interpreting the thought exactly the same underneath it all so nothing has actually changed. 

On 08/05/2020 at 13:50, Blossom750 said:

I said" just like people who commit incest have the right to if it makes them happy " , I know this is so wrong but for some reason in my head it isn't being displayed as wrong 

is this OCD? Is  there anyway I can challenge this to make me forget about the whole thing and just move on ? 

If you didn't think it was wrong you'd have no reaction to it, barely even realising you'd had the thought at all.

It's a common misunderstanding to believe the rights and wrongs of something is what makes it OCD. :no:  It isn't. 

Yes, you can challenge this! :) You just need to make sure you challenge the right thing so you jump the wall instead of bashing your head against it.   :wallbash:

To forget the whole thing and move on you have to stop giving the thought importance. Stop doing compulsions to make it feel ok. Accept you have thoughts from time to time which are classed as morally wrong by most people, but having them doesn't make you a bad person. Other people have similar thoughts and interpret having them as unimportant. You give importance just to having the thought, so it makes you anxious. 

 

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I appreciate your great help, snowbear!

Unfortunately I am back. I'm really desperate because everything that is happening at the moment is so real. I can't even describe how real it is. I've been reading so many stories on here and other forums, as well as listening to OCD podcasts and I didn't see/hear about anyone who feels like they don't want to recover from OCD. But this is how I feel now. I am probably 99% sure that my thoughts and sensations are true and I want to be/experience what they say. The fact that I want to be what my thoughts say is genuine. I talked to my therapist about this yesterday and he said on some level you should know that these thoughts and sensations are not true... but I don't, I am not able to say they are not true.... so what is this then?! 

Here goes another thing that can be probably used as a proof that I'm a monster: 
It happened about 40 mins ago. I was doing homework with my brother when he started hugging and kissing me. That's when I got a sensation that can only be described as arousal because of how powerful and intense it was. The following is the most disgusting part: I kissed him back, and I'm sure it was because of the arousal I got. It felt like I was moments away from touching him inappropriately. I apologise for all this! I don't know why I decided to kiss him back. I should've stood up and left. But no, I did the opposite and acted on a thought/urge.
I hurt my brother in the most disgusting way and I don't know what to do now. 

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