hyperresponsibility?

[Ironborn]

Goodday everyone.

So I have had a form of OCD for several days now (in the past i had similar OCD themes btw). where I am convinced that I am continuously the cause of a lot of suffering.

It started yesterday while running (something I recently tried to pick up again by the way). The route goes largely through wooded area and on the running trail there are often slugs crossing, I was very aware of this to ensure that I would not step on any of them, but when I got home I was not convinced that I may not have trampled on one or more slugs, i felt a lot of guilt.

This made me immediately super conscious of where I walked and how I walked, this led to the thought that with every footstep, touch etc etc I kill thousands or perhaps millions of microorganisms. Thus I have now reached the point where I have thoughts such as;

* Why is my life (1 life) worth more than all those millions of other lives?

I am now afraid to clean surfaces, for example, because that could kill the microorganisms on that surface. and for what reason? so that it looks 'cleaner'?

I feel like everything we humans do is dominated by selfishness and destruction, and I don't want to be part of such a society.

What also hurts me a lot is that my son, who I love very much, often comes back in these thoughts, I think, for example;

I have to keep it clean at home so he doesn't get sick. But how can I put the life of 1 person above that of millions of other organisms?

So now I have come to the point that I feel I have to accept that I am a mass murderer, because I don't want to make my son a victim of this.

It feels really dark and bad to accept the fact i kill so many lives everyday / moment / hour. Its unfair.

I know that this is how everything is supposed to go, and that the whole universe is about life and death. But why tho? why do we even live? just to feel pain and die?

I am very confused about this, and it also makes me really question the reason why i or why we are here. What is the meaning of all this? all this life and death and suffering but also joy and happiness?

[OxCD]

I’ve thought the same in the past. But as a scientist I came to the conclusion that not all living things are capable of “feeling“ as you or I would recognise it. A virus isn’t even “alive”. Bacteria “react” to things but purely in a biochemical way. So you have to draw a line somewhere. Aside from this, you cannot alleviate all suffering anyway - the best you can do is minimise it. I find this hard to accept but it is true. It still irritates me. Sometimes there is a fork in the road and both ways cause pain - all you can do is choose the lower one. I mean if you stopped eating and breathing and moving to save bacteria’s lives, you’d damage other bacteria in your gut. There is no perfect solution. Choose the best one and don’t dwell on it. Take solace in the fact you did your best at the time.

[Ironborn]

1 hour ago, OxCD said:

I’ve thought the same in the past. But as a scientist I came to the conclusion that not all living things are capable of “feeling“ as you or I would recognise it. A virus isn’t even “alive”. Bacteria “react” to things but purely in a biochemical way. So you have to draw a line somewhere. Aside from this, you cannot alleviate all suffering anyway - the best you can do is minimise it. I find this hard to accept but it is true. It still irritates me. Sometimes there is a fork in the road and both ways cause pain - all you can do is choose the lower one. I mean if you stopped eating and breathing and moving to save bacteria’s lives, you’d damage other bacteria in your gut. There is no perfect solution. Choose the best one and don’t dwell on it. Take solace in the fact you did your best at the time.

I'm really on a dead end here. On the one hand it feels as if I am continuously (consciously) and also unconsciously responsible for immense suffering and death, and on the other hand if I do not live my life then I also hurt others as in Friends, family and even all the micro(organisms) living on and inside me. Whether it is my family where I often have difficulty handling because of my OCD.

The thing that really makes me emotional is my son. i just want him to have a healthy and organized dad. not some guy who constantly is afraid of everything.

And what makes me even more anxious is that I get thoughts that my son's life cannot be as important as that of millions of other (micro) organisms.

How do I justify it to myself that I cause suffering to other (micro) organisms. and that my wife and my son are of paramount importance to me?

Isn't that incredibly selfish?

Edited July 27, 2020 by Ironborn

[OxCD]

I don’t think you cause immense suffering - look at the science. You may cause bacterial death - but why is that such a bad thing? They didn’t suffer. They’re little automated biochemical machines with no nervous system. That’s fine.

I totally get you re. your son and family. I try and protect my family and kids and end up causing them more pain through being OCD. Fills me with guilt. They deserve a normal Daddy. So the strongest bravest most valiant thing to do is to accept that there are two less than ideal choices and take the one best for them. Ie. Be strong with your OCD and follow therapy and get better, and live in the knowledge sone bacteria died - but it’s not such a bad thing anyway! Just like the you have to kill some bacteria choice.

I think our kids lives are more important than a million little biological “robots” with no capacity to feel anything in all honesty. 

Is it selfish? Maybe. Define selfish. But what is so wrong with being selfish if it protects the ones you love over non feeling bacteria that are not exactly in short supply. You can’t save everything.

Edited July 27, 2020 by OxCD

[Slowcoach]

I think it's just the world we live in. Look out for your family, don't hurt anything for pleasure, that's all anyone can do.

[Ironborn]

I just dont know how to not think of it while going trough the day.

It feels as if once you get the knowledge and understanding there is so much suffering around you and also done by you then its impossible to be ok with that.

Who want to cause such amounts of suffering? All i tried doing the last couple of years is being the best person i can be, and still i cause a lot of suffering.

Im also a vegan, and my reason for that is that i want to minimize suffering around me. and with this new ocd theme i got im an this point where i feel im unable to choose where to go. Sometimes i feel the only way to cause 0 suffering is by not existing anymore, but since me and my therapists have agreed one one thing which is no matter how dark things get, suicide is never an option. I dont want my son to grow up without a father and i dont want my wife to become a single mom.

Now this causes me to only see one way out and that is becoming desensitized to suffering / killing / and murder

But if i try to become desensitized from that would that not make things worse? would i not become the monster im so afraid of troughout all my OCD themes?

What kind of person will i become if i try to not care about ÁNY suffering.

Its impossible for me to undo the knowing of suffering of all life around me and by me. So i cannot undo that what i know.



im afraid of what ill become, but what are my options here?

Edited July 28, 2020 by Ironborn

[OxCD]

I really sympathise with you mate - I’ve been through a similar process. But you do need to listen.

As a scientist I know that bacteria dying causes no suffering. Think about what suffering really means. It requires a central nervous system for starters. Murder of bacteria is not the same thing as what one might consider usual murder. You’re not causing suffering by brushing your teeth or cleaning the toilet. You think you are - but as I know all too well about my issues - perception is not necessarily the same as reality.

And whilst I have the same difficulty dealing with issues not being clear cut - we’ve got to learn to live with it. The world is how it is, whether we like it or not. Some things live, other things die. As long as you minimise suffering that is good enough. Make sure you’re a positive influence on the world and that’s all you can do. Be brave my friend.

I think realising what you’ve realised is a really big step. You know what the options are. I’m still working on a lot of this. Remember the monster you’re afraid of becoming isn’t real. It’s your misperception of the situation.

Edited July 28, 2020 by OxCD

[PolarBear]

Stop trying to figure this out. That and ruminating are your compulsions. You will only sink deeper if you stay on this path.

 

[OxCD]

@PolarBear I’m sorry but just going don’t think about anything you might be afraid of is extreme. Give thoughts the time the deserve and no more. Not necessarily zero time. And thinking about morality is normal - it’s ruminating about it in an unconstructive way that’s unhelpful. (My OCD does not revolve around morality so in that sense at least I’m “normal”.)

Edited July 29, 2020 by OxCD

[PolarBear]

Well, I disagree. When it comes to compulsions, ZERO is the only worthy goal.

We all wash our hands. A sufferer washes to reduce the anxiety caused by obsessions. This can be dozens of times per day. For recovery, no compulsions is the goal, reducing washing down to very infrequently.  Ssme with moral questions. The poster is ruminating as a compulsion, so zero ruminating must be the goal.

[OxCD]

The aim is to wash hands the recommended amount. Not zero. Sure zero compulsions, but that is not zero washes. So think about morality a normal amount - but not as a compulsion.

Edited July 29, 2020 by OxCD

[PolarBear]

Ah, but I would advise a sufferer who suffers from extreme handwashing to reduce that compulsion to zero, for a week or two before adding in minimal handwashing.

We talk about this here. Sufferers go so overboard with their compulsions in one direction that, in order to return to normal, they need to go to the extreme in the other direction.

[OxCD]

If someone really has the wrong end of the stick from a scientific perspective it is acceptable to go: X is against perceived scientific consensus, it is not an issue. From this point forward I will provide no further reassurance. Ruminating is not helpful either etc and will prolong the pain. And advise from there. It is not always best to jump straight to the don’t ruminate bit without saying first that the belief is ill founded according to the best scientific knowledge. In fact at my last psychiatrist’s meeting we discussed the science, agreed my fears were not based on evidence and proceeded to discuss best strategies to stop ruminating.

Edited July 29, 2020 by OxCD