Worried about cell phone radiation

[bob54945]

I have had a huge worry over phone radiation for like 6 months. First it was that they’d cause cancer, now it’s that it causes infertility. I used to turn my phone off and move it away from my family to protect them (I accept whatever risk there would be but I don’t want to hurt my family with the radiation). That caused huge problems and my family where stressed. I am now worried about infertility, almost every study into it has said that phones cause infertility but they are almost all flawed. But I’m worried that if I just accept that they are flawed and use a phone then I’ll end up causing my brother to become infertile or my dad. I understand that they use a phone but they don’t believe in the risk so I feel like I’m letting them harm their health. I’ve tried to convince them but they refuse to believe me.

I guess if someone doesn’t use a phone/tech then they’ll have not ability to contact people quickly therefore making them depressed which can cause infertility, it’s a double edge sword. I just don’t want to hurt people. I’m sorry if this came across as a bit of a rant I’m just worried.

[PolarBear]

Sorry to tell you, but you aren't responsible for them. It's not your problem.

You are being hyperresponsible, which goes along with OCD. It means trying to be way more responsible than you need to be.

Do yourself and them a favor. Stop reading about cellphones and radiation. That's where your problem lies. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by PolarBear

[bob54945]

28 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

Sorry to tell you, but you aren't responsible for them. It's not your problem.

You are being hyperresponsible, which goes along with OCD. It means trying to be way more responsible than you need to be.

Do yourself and them a favor. Stop reading about cellphones and radiation. That's where your problem lies. 

Thanks for the reply! I just don't want to hurt anyone, but I've went through the leaving technology switched off completely and refusing to use tech and that really stressed out my family so I don't want to put them through that again. My issue is that my brother has said that if the infertility thing was true (He dosen't believe it is) then he wouldn't use a phone at all, so I feel as though I'm going against his wishes. I don't know, this thing is a mess.

[OxCD]

Radiation is everywhere. We’re all flooded with electromagnetic radiation: radio waves, light, microwaves, ultraviolet..... WiFi and mobile signals are everywhere. Cosmic radiation (gamma rays, protons, and a whole menagerie of weird particles) rain down on us from the sun and other stars. If it was deadly or made people infertile there’s nothing you can do about it anyway (though it would have been detected if it was! There are scientists far cleverer than us checking these things). Move on with your life my friend. Let it go - it’s OCD tricking you.

Edited August 10, 2020 by OxCD

[bob54945]

13 minutes ago, OxCD said:

Radiation is everywhere. We’re all flooded with electromagnetic radiation: radio waves, light, microwaves, ultraviolet..... WiFi and mobile signals are everywhere. Cosmic radiation (gamma rays, protons, and a whole menagerie of weird particles) rain down on us from the sun and other stars. If it was deadly or made people infertile there’s nothing you can do about it anyway (though it would have been detected if it was! There are scientists far cleverer than us checking these things). Move on with your life my friend. Let it go - it’s OCD tricking you.

Thank you! Most studies have found a link between infertility and phones but they haven't accounted for many factors and they normally use fertility clinics as subjects, which causes selection bias. But I just want to be sure it's not harming anyone. But I guess if it isn't my phone hurting my family it'll be the next door neighbors or the wifi networks or whatever else so I guess it dosen't matter.

[OxCD]

Hmmm. I doubt that - my partner used to work on the studies. As a scientist, I know that a lot of papers are utter ****! Or poor quality. So you have to look at the consensus... Though this is totally missing the point. It’s not your problem, and it’s your OCD talking. Research the best thing to do for OCD rather than cell phone stuff.

[bob54945]

6 minutes ago, OxCD said:

Hmmm. I doubt that - my partner used to work on the studies. As a scientist, I know that a lot of papers are utter ****! Or poor quality. So you have to look at the consensus... Though this is totally missing the point. It’s not your problem, and it’s your OCD talking. Research the best thing to do for OCD rather than cell phone stuff.

Thanks! Yeah, most professionals and scientific advisors say that there needs to be better reaserch as most of the current litrature is flawed. Even though most meta analysis says there is a link I would trust things like the NHS and mainstream scientists more then the single paper (I hope this is the right thing to do, I don't know as my scientific knowledge is limited)

[gingerbreadgirl]

This is absolutely nothing to do with science and everything to do with ocd  

The only way through this is to stop researching and leave it be. There are a thousand risks every single day that you think nothing of. This feels very important to you because your ocd has focused on it. 

[bob54945]

Just now, gingerbreadgirl said:

This is absolutely nothing to do with science and everything to do with ocd  

The only way through this is to stop researching and leave it be. There are a thousand risks every single day that you think nothing of. This feels very important to you because your ocd has focused on it. 

I know, I just don't want to hurt my brother. He's said that if it was true then he wouldn't use a phone so I feel guilty using tech around him

[gingerbreadgirl]

10 minutes ago, bob54945 said:

I know, I just don't want to hurt my brother. He's said that if it was true then he wouldn't use a phone so I feel guilty using tech around him

Yep maybe you'll hurt your brother by using your cellphone. Or maybe you have an infectious disease you're unaware of that might hurt him, or maybe he'll get in your car one day and you'll make a driving error and crash the car and paralyse him, or maybe you accidentally put antifreeze in his drink instead of vodka and he'll die, or maybe you'll make him a meal with some carcinogenic ingredient in it, etc etc etc. 

My point is life is full of risk. The biggest risk you face right now is letting ocd destroy your life. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by gingerbreadgirl

[bob54945]

3 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Yep maybe you'll hurt your brother by using your cellphone. Or maybe you have an infectious disease you're unaware of that might hurt him, or maybe he'll get in your car one day and you'll make a driving error and crash the car and paralyse him, or maybe you accidentally put antifreeze in his drink instead of vodka and he'll die, or maybe you'll make gin a meal with some carcinogenic ingredient in it, etc etc etc. 

My point is life is full of risk. The biggest risk you face right now is letting ocd destroy your life. 

Thanks! Yeah, I guess that is true. But he dosen't accept the risk so I feel like I'm doing something to him that he dosen't want

[gingerbreadgirl]

1 minute ago, bob54945 said:

Thanks! Yeah, I guess that is true. But he dosen't accept the risk so I feel like I'm doing something to him that he dosen't want

Maybe you are - a risk you have to take 

[bob54945]

Yeah

[OxCD]

18 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

This is absolutely nothing to do with science and everything to do with ocd  

The only way through this is to stop researching and leave it be. There are a thousand risks every single day that you think nothing of. This feels very important to you because your ocd has focused on it. 

Totally true. As a scientist I only research things I’m not obsessed about! I couldn’t do it otherwise. I leave the things I stress about to people with more balance on those topics.

[dksea]

I agree with the others, researching this isn't going to do you much good.  
But lets think about this a different way, every day you do things, you breathe, you eat, you talk, you drive a car, you take a shower, you turn on a light, etc.  Everything you do has the potential, however small, to impact other people, thats just the nature of existence.  We are all interacting with the world around us and thus each other constantly.  And its utterly impossible to know how everything you do will ripple out and affect other people.  No one can understand it all, the amount of information you'd need to gather and process is just beyond comprehension.  You'd be basically have to simulate every moment of the entire universe to figure it out.  Which would be the same as recreating the entire universe.  So yeah, kinda impossible

That doesn't mean you should just ignore everything you do and not care about impacting others.  It would be a bad idea, for example, for you to, say, intentionally flood your apartment so the water ruins the apartments of everyone below you.  Or to kidnap someone and tie them to the train tracks.  Or drive through the middle of London with your eyes closed.  You should probably avoid those things.  But you have to balance the likelihood of doing harm with the benefit of the action, either for yourself or others.  And you don't have to be certain either, its not an exact science, its a reasonable effort type of thing.  So if you have good reason to believe a behavior might be harmful to others, say smoking cigarettes around babies, maybe don't do that.  But if you don't have a good reason to think something is dangerous, there is nothing wrong doing it.  And no, you DONT have to research every possible thing to determine how dangerous it is, you'd never stop, its an impossible goal.  In the case of cell phones, there is just not good reason to suspect they are dangerous right now.  Maybe we will find out down the road we are wrong and then we can change our guidance, but until then, obsessing over it will not help you or your family.  Its very likely the OCD is going to be doing more harm in your life (and theirs because they love you) than the cell phone.

Remember, OCD demands certainty, an impossible goal.  You will never beat OCD by playing its game and trying to be certain, you have to choose not to play, you have to decide that "probably" is good enough, or even "maybe" is good enough depending on the situation.  Its hard, OCD will pull at you to give it an answer, it will seem like you have to, but you don't.  Hang in there, you can do it.

[bob54945]

33 minutes ago, dksea said:

I agree with the others, researching this isn't going to do you much good.  
But lets think about this a different way, every day you do things, you breathe, you eat, you talk, you drive a car, you take a shower, you turn on a light, etc.  Everything you do has the potential, however small, to impact other people, thats just the nature of existence.  We are all interacting with the world around us and thus each other constantly.  And its utterly impossible to know how everything you do will ripple out and affect other people.  No one can understand it all, the amount of information you'd need to gather and process is just beyond comprehension.  You'd be basically have to simulate every moment of the entire universe to figure it out.  Which would be the same as recreating the entire universe.  So yeah, kinda impossible

That doesn't mean you should just ignore everything you do and not care about impacting others.  It would be a bad idea, for example, for you to, say, intentionally flood your apartment so the water ruins the apartments of everyone below you.  Or to kidnap someone and tie them to the train tracks.  Or drive through the middle of London with your eyes closed.  You should probably avoid those things.  But you have to balance the likelihood of doing harm with the benefit of the action, either for yourself or others.  And you don't have to be certain either, its not an exact science, its a reasonable effort type of thing.  So if you have good reason to believe a behavior might be harmful to others, say smoking cigarettes around babies, maybe don't do that.  But if you don't have a good reason to think something is dangerous, there is nothing wrong doing it.  And no, you DONT have to research every possible thing to determine how dangerous it is, you'd never stop, its an impossible goal.  In the case of cell phones, there is just not good reason to suspect they are dangerous right now.  Maybe we will find out down the road we are wrong and then we can change our guidance, but until then, obsessing over it will not help you or your family.  Its very likely the OCD is going to be doing more harm in your life (and theirs because they love you) than the cell phone.

Remember, OCD demands certainty, an impossible goal.  You will never beat OCD by playing its game and trying to be certain, you have to choose not to play, you have to decide that "probably" is good enough, or even "maybe" is good enough depending on the situation.  Its hard, OCD will pull at you to give it an answer, it will seem like you have to, but you don't.  Hang in there, you can do it.

Thanks for the reply! About a month ago I asked my brother if he’d use a even though it could make him infertile and he said no. Last night my I asked him again (I know I shouldn’t reassurance seek but if I didn’t ask him that night I would feel miserable for weeks) and he said that if everyone else was still using there’s then he’s probably still use a phone. Even though my brain is racing about that fact that probably doesn’t mean certainly I am feeling better.

Edited August 11, 2020 by bob54945

[dksea]

On 12/08/2020 at 03:52, bob54945 said:

About a month ago I asked my brother if he’d use a even though it could make him infertile and he said no.

Sure, if there was good reason to believe it could have significant side effects like infertility then it would be wise to reconsider using a cellphone, but we don't have any good reason to believe that side effect exists.  Is it technically possible it COULD exist? Sure, but in the same sense that its technically possible you could be kidnapped by aliens on your way to the shop.  Its not just about whats possible, its about whats probable and even likely.