Family occasion... travel, large-ish gathering and Covid fears- help me!

[BelAnna]

Hi Everyone, 

This weekend I'm travelling 300 miles (by car) to a close family christening and feeling so worried about it! My family and I stayed quite close to the same city two weeks ago but the Covid rates have gone up massively in that time and I'm very worried about being indoors in the church, in relatively close proximity to 16+ people (and their kids who aren't counted for in the max. capacity for church services); who may have Covid and not know it.

In terms of taking risks with Coronavirus we have been really careful so far- we have only eaten outside at a couple of cafes/pubs (not indoors) and have tried to be incredibly careful with wiping clean all our groceries, wearing masks and gloves and using gel from March onwards, limiting supermarket trips to once/twice a week and showering after going out etc. This situation feels so much more risky. It is legal to attend christening services but the infection rate  is so high and I'm terrified that my 60+ y/o parents who have Vascular conditions (coronary heart disease and an unruptured brain aneurysm) may contract Covid and suffer serious complications etc. I'm actually finding it hard to sleep at night because I'm so worried that they might die from it. 

I'm unwell with a virus at the moment and it is making my asthma much worse, which has just made me even more scared about Coronavirus. 

I would love some advice if anyone could help- how can I cope with this?

I should add that I really have no control over this- it's my niece's christening so we cannot not go!

Edited October 19, 2020 by BelAnna

[dksea]

Hi @BelAnna, I can't recall where you live (if you have ever mentioned it), but if you live in the US or the UK I would not go to be perfectly honest.  The infection rates in both places (as well as many others) are simply too high at the moment, and until a vaccine is available, social distancing and masking are the best options for staying safe and healthy.  Perhaps if the event were being held outdoors with a limited number of people it would be one thing, but I imagine this time of year thats not an option, and as you said its an indoor event, even with limited capacity thats still potential problematic depending on how big the indoor space is and how close people will be during the actual event.  I understand that a christening can be an important event, and of course most of us WANT to be able to attend these sort of things.  I WANT to be able to go home and spend Christmas with my family in America.  But it isn't wise at the moment.  Many people are having to make the difficult choice to miss out on these events, and its sad of course, but it would be even more sad if your family were to have to deal with an outbreak of COVID amongst themselves.  If it were me I would politely decline and send a gift and see if an online option such as either live streaming video of the event or a recorded video you watch later are on option.  Your health and your parents health are key factors here, its the prudent choice to make IMO.  You DO have a choice, even if its not a pleasant or desirable one.  I really really encourage you to stick to your guns on this.  Normally I would rule out avoidance due to OCD, but this is a very real situation.

Having said all that, if you end up going, for whatever reason, do what you can to be careful and minimize your risk.  Wear your mask at all times.  Stay as distant as possible during conversations, especially if around people who aren't wearing a mask.  Try to avoid being inside as much as possible.  Avoid physical contact.  Avoid eating or drinking while inside and/or around lots of people.  Wash your hands after coming in to contact with people and of course in usual situations like using the toilet.  Also, while its ideal NOT to get COVID at all, even if you do get it, its not a death sentence.  Doctors have gotten a lot better at treating severe cases.  Many people have more mild cases, even with underlying conditions.  How much you are exposed to COVID (the initial viral load) appears to make a difference as well in how strong your symptoms are.  Its not an all or nothing situation.

Bottom line, control what you can control, accept what you can not, and hope for the best.  Unfortunately life is full of risks sometimes, some that can't easily be avoided.  Perhaps this is one of those times.  But I want to reiterate, from a completely non-OCD perspective I think its totally reasonable and in fact prudent not to go to this kind of gathering.  Thats the advice of medical experts, not just paranoid OCD sufferers.   Just because the gathering is "legal" doesn't mean its medical advisable.  Unfortunately there are many leaders around the world who are not following best practices to deal with COVID.  Some because they refuse to, some because they feel they have no choice, but either way, it doesn't mean you have to as well.  I'm so sorry that you re in this tough position and you might have to miss out on your niece's special day.  But better to be around for other special days in the future than risk it on this IMO.

[Angst]

What is legal depends which part of the UK in which you live. I think from Saturday to travel such a distance would be illegal in Wales but not in England. In Liverpool in Tier 3 hotels will be open but in Cardiff hotels will be closed. If you wished to stay the night.
 

We have sets of legal rules for Northern Ireland with local variation, Wales, Scotland, Isle of Mann, the Channel Islands, and three tiers of regulation in England. If the christening was in the Isle of Mann you would not be allowed entry. The island is clear of the virus with strict restrictions on visits.

Not only are geographically are the rules different but temporally they are as well. In September go to work if you can, in October do not go to work if you can. Go to hospitality venues in the summer now in parts of the country they are closed or closing for a period.

I think the advice given is sensible and you do have control.

 

[BelAnna]

Thanks so much Dksea and Angst. 

I am not so scared about catching it myself but terrified for my parents who I think are very much at risk of serious illness. They have already booked accommodation (a 'covid-secure' holiday rental in a nearby quiet, beach town, so at least it's not a busy hotel in the city) and are sure that they're going. I insisted on it being a holiday rental as they had refundable hotel rooms booked in a busy city hotel. We're going to stop at a quiet pub en route for a loo break rather than a service station (I will stay in the car).

Unfortunately due to the God-awful severity of my OCD I would be too anxious to stay at home (which wouldn't have been a problem in the past- I've lived alone and with flatmates) so that's not an option. I also think my brother would respond poorly.

I've just had an argument with my parents over this and they are refusing to let me email my brother with some suggestions that might mitigate the risk (such as asking for my little nephew not to attend nursery the day before and for us to sit at the back of the church). What on earth can I do???

 

[BelAnna]

Sorry didn't tag you @dksea, @Angst.

[BelAnna]

Hello,

I know this is a bit odd but I was just wondering what your approach to this situation would be @Ashley and @Caramoole but totally understand if you're snowed under with helping people.  

Edited October 21, 2020 by BelAnna

[Gemma@OCDUK]

Hi BelAnna,

This situation sounds incredibly tough to deal with and I don't underestimate that, but in terms of going or not going to the christening, provided it is allowed in the area it is happening, it comes down to personal choice. Everybody deals with what risks they are willing to take differently, if your parents are happy to go then there isn't much you can do about that. All you can do is choose what you would like to do.

Gemma

[Lollipop]

My only bit of advice would be if you do speak to your brother, perhaps try and do so by phone as might be easier to communicate than by email, though not easy I appreciate that! 

Thinking of you

[Ashley]

Hi BelAnna,

I am not sure I have much more to add to what Gemma mentions. 

1 hour ago, Gemma@OCDUK said:

This situation sounds incredibly tough to deal with and I don't underestimate that, but in terms of going or not going to the christening, provided it is allowed in the area it is happening, it comes down to personal choice. Everybody deals with what risks they are willing to take differently, if your parents are happy to go then there isn't much you can do about that. All you can do is choose what you would like to do.

One thing that's helped me over the years with my OCD (before COVID) is using observation of others to help retrain my 'what is normal' part of the brain.  So in this case, what Gemma mentions about your parents being happy to go, could that be a benchmark you could use?

The sad truth is that you are equally as likely to get COVID visiting the supermarket.  So 16 people (plus kids) offers no more (or no less) risk than going to a supermarket I would guess. 

In such circumstances we all have to make a choice if we want to go or not, under the circumstances I don't think anybody would blame you for ducking it, and you can still be amazing Auntie to your niece in the years ahead. 

But... here's a question, would that be because of OCD or COVID fears?   I will send you a link to the presentation Prof Salkovskis did about COVID fears in a moment. It's not yet on our website but I will send the Zoom code for now.  I am not sure if that will tell you anything you don't already know, but it might help. 

 

3 hours ago, BelAnna said:

I've just had an argument with my parents over this and they are refusing to let me email my brother with some suggestions that might mitigate the risk (such as asking for my little nephew not to attend nursery the day before and for us to sit at the back of the church). What on earth can I do???

I guess this is the same as the question above really.  Is this a request because of OCD or genuine COVID fears?   If I am honest, I think those requests are excessive and front or back of the church I don't think that mitigates OCD risks that much.

But, if that gets you there, so be it, but it's important that you are honest with yourself about if this is OCD or COVID.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[Angst]

Hi Belanna. Much easier for you if you were in Wales as church services only allowed for weddings and funerals and all types of visitor accommodation will be closed. The decision would be taken for you. 
 

Having said that, your parents have minimised their risk and ultimately it’s their decision about what they do or do not do. And, as Ashley said, the risk of supermarket shopping might be greater.

In these times there is no easy answer. It is our perception of risk as well as those people in charge perceptions of risk that determine the choices which we make. Good luck on your decision

[Caramoole]

Hi Belanna

From what I understand Churches are taking this very seriously & probably very diligent at adhering to the procedures laid down by the church.  Cleaning is carried out frequently and social distancing measures will be in place and I'm sure will be communicated by the Vicar/Priest.  Providing that you remain 2m (preferably) apart, wear your masks (if you feel more comfortable), use sanitizer regularly, I wouldn't feel too uncomfortable.  I also live in an area with holiday rentals, I have friends who manage them and know they are being absolutely stringent with cleaning procedures, including things ,like changing mattress & pillow protectors as well as normal bedding.

You could always look up the details for the church in question and phone either the Vicar or the Verger and ask them what measures they have in place.  You won't be the first person to be concerned

I don't know about your family but in mine, even the very little ones (3 year olds) have got a pretty good grasp of what's allowed and are very good at not running up to Grandparents or Aunties, Cousins etc.

[BelAnna]

5 hours ago, Gemma@OCDUK said:

Hi BelAnna,

This situation sounds incredibly tough to deal with and I don't underestimate that, but in terms of going or not going to the christening, provided it is allowed in the area it is happening, it comes down to personal choice. Everybody deals with what risks they are willing to take differently, if your parents are happy to go then there isn't much you can do about that. All you can do is choose what you would like to do.

Gemma

Hi Gemma,

Thank you! ,  you're right. I guess that as I feel the biggest risk is actually to my parents' health then whether I attend or not doesn't actually make a huge difference (except if I somehow caught it first and spread it throughout the household; which is fairly unlikely). 

If this was anything other than my niece's Christening I would definitely cancel though. 

3 hours ago, Ashley said:

Hi BelAnna,

I am not sure I have much more to add to what Gemma mentions. 

One thing that's helped me over the years with my OCD (before COVID) is using observation of others to help retrain my 'what is normal' part of the brain.  So in this case, what Gemma mentions about your parents being happy to go, could that be a benchmark you could use?

The sad truth is that you are equally as likely to get COVID visiting the supermarket.  So 16 people (plus kids) offers no more (or no less) risk than going to a supermarket I would guess. 

In such circumstances we all have to make a choice if we want to go or not, under the circumstances I don't think anybody would blame you for ducking it, and you can still be amazing Auntie to your niece in the years ahead. 

But... here's a question, would that be because of OCD or COVID fears?   I will send you a link to the presentation Prof Salkovskis did about COVID fears in a moment. It's not yet on our website but I will send the Zoom code for now.  I am not sure if that will tell you anything you don't already know, but it might help. 

 

I guess this is the same as the question above really.  Is this a request because of OCD or genuine COVID fears?   If I am honest, I think those requests are excessive and front or back of the church I don't think that mitigates OCD risks that much.

But, if that gets you there, so be it, but it's important that you are honest with yourself about if this is OCD or COVID.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Thanks so much Ashley! I know my parents and younger brother just plan to attend and take the risk so I guess that's my main template for 'normal' at the moment.

My worry is that because my older brother, his fiancée and kids have had Covid-19, that their 'normal' (using public transport, hugging friends etc., seeing quite a lot of people, using public loos) wouldn't be a good approach when we haven't had Covid yet and that they maybe aren't considering that our parents could fall seriously ill. 

My contamination OCD mostly revolves around Norovirus so I'm not sure that this is OCD but I do have aspects of hyper-responsibility to my OCD so perhaps that does play a role.

I don't think that the requests are based on OCD but I've decided not to message my brother as I don't think it will change anything! I think I have to attend otherwise my brother will be very hurt so I will probably just do that and hope for the best.

I would love the link to Prof Salkovskis talk- thank you!

3 hours ago, Caramoole said:

Hi Belanna

From what I understand Churches are taking this very seriously & probably very diligent at adhering to the procedures laid down by the church.  Cleaning is carried out frequently and social distancing measures will be in place and I'm sure will be communicated by the Vicar/Priest.  Providing that you remain 2m (preferably) apart, wear your masks (if you feel more comfortable), use sanitizer regularly, I wouldn't feel too uncomfortable.  I also live in an area with holiday rentals, I have friends who manage them and know they are being absolutely stringent with cleaning procedures, including things ,like changing mattress & pillow protectors as well as normal bedding.

You could always look up the details for the church in question and phone either the Vicar or the Verger and ask them what measures they have in place.  You won't be the first person to be concerned

I don't know about your family but in mine, even the very little ones (3 year olds) have got a pretty good grasp of what's allowed and are very good at not running up to Grandparents or Aunties, Cousins etc.

Thanks so much Caramoole!

That's helpful to know that your friends who own holiday rentals are being so careful. I think hopefully the holiday rental accommodation will be okay and that the vicar will be taking all of the necessary precautions too. We'll wear medical grade masks, gloves and use gel in church to reduce the risk. My niece and nephew are too little (under 3) to understand social distancing but we'll hopefully be able to sit socially distanced from the other guests. 

3 hours ago, Angst said:

Hi Belanna. Much easier for you if you were in Wales as church services only allowed for weddings and funerals and all types of visitor accommodation will be closed. The decision would be taken for you. 
 

Having said that, your parents have minimised their risk and ultimately it’s their decision about what they do or do not do. And, as Ashley said, the risk of supermarket shopping might be greater.

In these times there is no easy answer. It is our perception of risk as well as those people in charge perceptions of risk that determine the choices which we make. Good luck on your decision

Hi Angst,

Yes I really wish it was but unfortunately it's in Scotland. I think I'm just going to take the risk and hope for the best, I just feel so uneasy about it!! Hopefully I can write back in a couple of weeks to say that we're all okay! (OCD means I'm scared I've just jinxed the situation!). 

4 hours ago, Lollipop said:

My only bit of advice would be if you do speak to your brother, perhaps try and do so by phone as might be easier to communicate than by email, though not easy I appreciate that! 

Thinking of you

Thanks Lollipop, I might do that.

Thanks again Angst, Ashley, Caramoole, Gemma and Lollipop for your advice!  

Edited October 21, 2020 by BelAnna

[Darwinia]

Hello,

I'm sharing this in case it helps your decision. I am avoiding indoor social gatherings as much as possible but over the summer I did attend a family wedding in a church  - we managed to schedule it at the perfect time to allow all 15 of us to attend - but by contrast, I chose not to attend my niece's first birthday celebration.

The wedding in church was so carefully managed - this is how it is with all Church of England churches - that I felt more at ease there than being in a shop, for example. We all had to wear masks, there was hand gel on the way in, all households had to sit at least 2m apart, and the service was over quickly - they won't allow singing, for example. I was nervous going but more about the informal stuff outside (arriving, leaving, how things would work in the restaurant afterwards). Despite all the weirdness of masks, etc. it was a happy, lovely event.

Your church is in Scotland so you may find it useful to see that there are strict rules for churches there too https://www.churchofscotland.org.uk/resources/covid-19-coronavirus-advice/advice-for-churches-covid-19-coronavirus e.g. the minister is not allowed to hold the baby. 

The birthday celebration however was an informal gathering in a rented space and I was nervous that other people would be more relaxed about socially distancing which has been my experience in informal spaces. I talked about this with my sister-in-law and she knows about my OCD which has made decision-making and risk-assessment trickier and she was very sympathetic and said there was no pressure to attend (so grateful for her empathy). So we didn't go and instead met up in a park another time. In advance of talking to her, I felt sure it would be awful of us to not go and a massive family faux pas, but when I talked to her about how I was feeling it became easier to say I needed a couple of days to think about it and then make a decision and she'd be ok with either way. 

You could take it in small chunks. Decide to go to Scotland but leave the decision about the Christening until you get there. Give yourself permission to decide on the day to go to the Christening, or not. My hunch would be that your OCD would find loopholes in any measures you asked your brother to take (e.g. the not going to nursery the day before) but the one thing you can ask him is to respect your need to look after yourself which may mean deciding to not attend on the day.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Darwinia
typo

[dksea]

On 21/10/2020 at 21:43, BelAnna said:

I am not so scared about catching it myself but terrified for my parents who I think are very much at risk of serious illness. They have already booked accommodation (a 'covid-secure' holiday rental in a nearby quiet, beach town, so at least it's not a busy hotel in the city) and are sure that they're going. I insisted on it being a holiday rental as they had refundable hotel rooms booked in a busy city hotel. We're going to stop at a quiet pub en route for a loo break rather than a service station (I will stay in the car).

Unfortunately due to the God-awful severity of my OCD I would be too anxious to stay at home (which wouldn't have been a problem in the past- I've lived alone and with flatmates) so that's not an option. I also think my brother would respond poorly.

I've just had an argument with my parents over this and they are refusing to let me email my brother with some suggestions that might mitigate the risk (such as asking for my little nephew not to attend nursery the day before and for us to sit at the back of the church). What on earth can I do???

Gotcha, it definitely is a tough situation, but as others have mentioned if your parents have made their choice there isn't a whole lot you can do.  Like it or not they are adults too and get to make their own choices, even if we think those choices are not the most wise.  It sounds like you have done what you can, you've expressed your concerns, you've pushed for alternate plans to try and mitigate things.  Since it doesn't sound like the plans will be canceled, you probably just have to work on accepting that this is what will happen.  Life is full of things that are beyond our control, as much as that exacerbates our OCD its simply the way things are.  Try to remind yourself that worrying won't change anything, and focus on celebrating this moment with your family.  You've done all that you reasonably can, remember you aren't responsible for everyone