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I really want to know how you would deal with this.

 

I recently posted on a vegan reddit group. I talked about where I might want to live (countryside) and that I would like to teach my children a few things about nature and how to deal with nature, etc.

 

Now I got a response from someone there that had nothing to do with the question I asked but was about why I have children and how I can see that as 'ethically' justified, because children still need food and products which also contribute to animal suffering directly or indirectly.

 

Now this has put me in a state of panic and now I have the constant feeling that my children shouldn't be here. I also noticed that this person is a member of a reddit group called Antinatalism which is really about being against reproduction and thus saving the earth from its destruction.

 

So I've read through a few posts on that particular subreddit, and now feel all the time like my kids shouldn't have been there, and I should get rid of them ... or worse ... and this I almost cannot say because i feel disgusted just thinking it...but have to have our unborn child being aborted...

I also get harm intrusions towards my son now who just recently turned 2. Not because i might like to harm him, or i might want to do it. But because that is wat is right to do.

I hate that i encountered this person who asked me this question and has indireclty showed me this whole Antinatalism even exists. I whish i would not have seen it.

Wat is even worse about tbhis is that im judging my feelings towards this. Because as a father if someone or some ideoligy would cause to endanger the existence of my children i should get angry right?

Why am i not angry? Why am i thinking about the fact that Antinatalism might be a good thing? Why?

I never had these thoughts before, and i hate it that i dont feel attacked by that persons comments. Does that mean i WANT to do a abortion on our 26 weeks old unborn son? does it mean that i WANT to stop my sons of 2 years to stop living?

It hurts so much, because i love my family, i just want to feel that fierce father protective feeling inside because of such comments. But i do not, i feel i am discussing if this might be a good ideology?

 

but i want this, i love my kids, and it feels extra painful to be with them now. What do I have to do with this?

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2 hours ago, Ironborn said:

I really want to know how you would deal with this.

 

I recently posted on a vegan reddit group. I talked about where I might want to live (countryside) and that I would like to teach my children a few things about nature and how to deal with nature, etc.

 

Now I got a response from someone there that had nothing to do with the question I asked but was about why I have children and how I can see that as 'ethically' justified, because children still need food and products which also contribute to animal suffering directly or indirectly.

 

Now this has put me in a state of panic and now I have the constant feeling that my children shouldn't be here. I also noticed that this person is a member of a reddit group called Antinatalism which is really about being against reproduction and thus saving the earth from its destruction.

 

So I've read through a few posts on that particular subreddit, and now feel all the time like my kids shouldn't have been there, and I should get rid of them ... or worse ... and this I almost cannot say because i feel disgusted just thinking it...but have to have our unborn child being aborted...

I also get harm intrusions towards my son now who just recently turned 2. Not because i might like to harm him, or i might want to do it. But because that is wat is right to do.

I hate that i encountered this person who asked me this question and has indireclty showed me this whole Antinatalism even exists. I whish i would not have seen it.

Wat is even worse about tbhis is that im judging my feelings towards this. Because as a father if someone or some ideoligy would cause to endanger the existence of my children i should get angry right?

Why am i not angry? Why am i thinking about the fact that Antinatalism might be a good thing? Why?

I never had these thoughts before, and i hate it that i dont feel attacked by that persons comments. Does that mean i WANT to do a abortion on our 26 weeks old unborn son? does it mean that i WANT to stop my sons of 2 years to stop living?

It hurts so much, because i love my family, i just want to feel that fierce father protective feeling inside because of such comments. But i do not, i feel i am discussing if this might be a good ideology?

 

but i want this, i love my kids, and it feels extra painful to be with them now. What do I have to do with this?

 

You really need to get an ocd specialist or educate yourself more on ocd somehow, and really find the discipline not to engage topics such as this that come with obsessive worry, ultimately you must place this in the realm of ocd, and accept the uncertainty, you have ocd which is a misfiring of your brain and will not be rational about topics such as this once that misfiring gets assigned, choose to live in a world without answers regarding "ocd topics" and making choices that allign with your values. In cases such as this, this is yet more content that is pretty much irrelevant, it sounds like you have a leniency to "perfectionism" in regards to moral philosophy and moral choices.

This is an ocd issue. Any attempt to engage in this topic by ourselves, or anyone else is just ritualizing a demand to have certainty and be right about topics. Learn to make this irrelevant. Easier said than done.

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9 minutes ago, humbleno1 said:

 

You really need to get an ocd specialist or educate yourself more on ocd somehow, and really find the discipline not to engage topics such as this that come with obsessive worry, ultimately you must place this in the realm of ocd, and accept the uncertainty, you have ocd which is a misfiring of your brain and will not be rational about topics such as this once that misfiring gets assigned, choose to live in a world without answers regarding "ocd topics" and making choices that allign with your values. In cases such as this, this is yet more content that is pretty much irrelevant, it sounds like you have a leniency to "perfectionism" in regards to moral philosophy and moral choices.

This is an ocd issue. Any attempt to engage in this topic by ourselves, or anyone else is just ritualizing a demand to have certainty and be right about topics. Learn to make this irrelevant. Easier said than done.

I get what you are saying. Its just that i feel like its my responsibility to atleast do what i can do. 

I also Already contacted a counselor, but waiting times here are about 6+ months. So in the meantime ill have to get by on myself. 

 

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You are giving thoughts random thoughts, other peoples arguments way too much meaning and credit. There is nothing to act on here, it is a distress signal generated by faulty wiring, there is no issue to begin with. Take "the risk" that this is irrelevant, in response to treating it as if it means something (it doesnt). You're brain will never fully be convinced of this though you have to show it. And you only do that by ignoring the distress signal. good luck, its hard, but you can do it slow steps.

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On 01/03/2021 at 16:55, humbleno1 said:

You are giving thoughts random thoughts, other peoples arguments way too much meaning and credit. There is nothing to act on here, it is a distress signal generated by faulty wiring, there is no issue to begin with. Take "the risk" that this is irrelevant, in response to treating it as if it means something (it doesnt). You're brain will never fully be convinced of this though you have to show it. And you only do that by ignoring the distress signal. good luck, its hard, but you can do it slow steps.

 

On 01/03/2021 at 18:02, PolarBear said:

What you need to do is leave this alone. Just like with any other obsession.

But the problem here is that its actually true. Its true that a person causes more harm in a lifetime than what they can make up for. Our Co2 footprint is of such high amounts there is no way we can make up for it.

And if it was just about me then it would be okish. but i chose to get 2 kids who have not chosen to be here, and for some antinatlism dude to confront me if it was a ethical and wise choice to get children, this really got me started thinking.

Right now im constantly thinking how i can make my children have an effect on the world once they grow older so that they were not here on earth for nothing. ive been thinking that maybe i should educate them in that so called philosophy about antinatalism. although i never heard of it before, if my 2 sons could prevent other people from having children (more then i could in my lifetime) then they could have a bigger impact on our climate then i could by myself). so somehow i can only feel good about this subject if having 2 sons can somehow contribute in a bigger way tot this subject then i could by myself.

Because every time i think about other options like; what if i would facilitate abortions with funding towards carrying woman (although i am against abortion) then i could 'justify having tweo sons' but then my thought goes; Well that's true but if you did that while not having sons it would have been even more efficient because your sons would not have been here and thus not cause any harm. so instead of facilitating 10 abortions with funds in my lifetime. if i had no sons it would mean that 12 lives were prevented from being birth and thus better for our climate.

This kind of thinking just keeps on going in my head, and i feel bad an guilty for thinking like this towards my sons, because i love them so much. But right now i feel like even my love for them is being stripped away because i should not have let them be born. It really turns my stomach thinking like that...

Edited by Ironborn
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We could all have no children and save the planet.....for who? The pandas?

Seriously, I quip :(

As the others have said, you have to attribute this to your OCD....you already have in so much as you've come here to an OCD forum.  Whatever your ideals or your beliefs you cannot afford to engage and debate with them right now.  The very fact that these thoughts are causing distress in the way they are indicate the intrusive thinking of OCD.  With OCD (of any type) compulsions and rumination worsen the situation.

2 hours ago, Ironborn said:

It really turns my stomach thinking like that...

Take note of those feelings of distress.  Acknowledge the workings and symptoms of OCD and then do your best to apply the behaviours that are recommended.

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I personally think the vegan who said what he said to you is a disgrace actually. You are now twisting yourself in knots like OCD sufferers often do, thinking uncomfortable thoughts and then mentally self flagulating. Your two kids could turn out to be scientists who cure the world of disease or help against climate change..or maybe not...maybe just two innocent human beings enjoying this beautiful world the same as that self righteous fool making judgements on everyone. None of us are perfect. I personally find those who lecture others are almost always massive hypocrites

Edited by MarieJo
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