Feelings

[Caramoole]

Hi @malina I appreciate how difficult it can be accessing treatment.  I struggled with this all my life and was never referred for treatment, always being fobbed off with the "long waiting list" reason. It (pleasantly) surprises me to see how many of our users are in therapy.

The IAPT service is, in principle, a good one, allowing people to self-refer and find some support.  I self referred & was assessed (over the phone) within about 7-10 days.  I had an appointment within about 4 weeks.   In truth, I found that the therapy on offer for OCD was fairly useless.  The well-being practitioners quite simply were not qualified or experienced enough to offer any sort of effective support.  I could have swapped chairs & taken over their role.  I tried the service twice about 3 years apart and the experience was the same.  Perhaps it differs in different areas/providers but I suspect it may be similar.  I wish I could be more positive, and it's worth giving it a go but I'm really unsure that it will provide the level of treatment that will benefit Cora.  Particularly as she's struggling to work with/commit to the recommendations of two private therapists already.

GP's can vary a great deal.  Many of them only have a sketchy understanding of OCD and the full extent of how it can manifest, others may be much better.  This gets more difficult when a patient perhaps doesn't divulge the level & extent of the obsessions they are experiencing because of the nature of those thoughts.  I can imagine this being the case with the sorts of intrusions that Cora experiences.  Embarrassment & fear can stop us giving a true picture of the extent of the problem. If a GP isn't helpful, it's worth finding out if there's another GP within the practise who might be more supportive.  Or even considering changing practices.  It may also be helpful to take someone along to an appointment.  Maybe a parent or partner but someone who can help to paint a truer picture of the extent of the suffering she's experiencing.

If all else fails I think it would be worth contacting Ashley and the Charity OCD-UK to see if they can offer any support or recommendations about accessing effective treatment at an appropriate level.

The charity's phone number is 01332 588112

Or there's an online contact form HERE

There is a link below that has information about how to access treatment

https://www.ocduk.org/overcoming-ocd/accessing-ocd-treatment/accessing-ocd-treatment-through-the-nhs/

Cora is of course going to have to commit to putting the work into making changes an working along with a therapist, at the moment this isn't happening.  It is a bit of a Chicken & Egg situation and as yet, no-one has been able to help her get to the stage where she properly understands OCD and the range & extent of how it can affect someone.  I think that's why she needs some properly effective treatment.

Sorry to talk "about you" Cora

[Cora]

Thank you, @malina and @Caramoole. 

Malina described my situation perfectly. (Thank you very much for that.) 

Caramoole, thank you for the help and information. I really appreciate that. 

I've seen three GPs and all they could offer me was change of medication and helplines for when I feel really low. I don't think calling them again is going to help. 

I just think it's my fault. My therapist is great and she really wants to help me. I know I sound like an idiot, but even after all this time I still don't know how to accept that this is OCD, especially because of all the events that have happened for the past year or so. 

[Caramoole]

10 minutes ago, Cora said:

I've seen three GPs and all they could offer me was change of medication and helplines for when I feel really low. I don't think calling them again is going to help

Have you ever been completely direct with your GP's and said that this is ruining my life?  Have you ever "properly" told them the sort of thoughts that are causing so much distress?  I would tell them that you have sought therapy from two private therapists and ask that you be considered for referral under Secondary Care, even if there is a waiting list.  If you don;t ever get put on the waiting list, you'll never move up it.  Can you take your Mum with you to help you assert yourself?

14 minutes ago, Cora said:

I still don't know how to accept that this is OCD, especially because of all the events that have happened for the past year or so. 

Ultimately, you will have to Cora....even if you don't believe it.  There haven't actually been any events....What there have been are intrusive thoughts to normal situations and because you have addressed them with all the wrong behaviours, they seem real.  They're not real.  I'm glad you like your therapist and that she's nice but nice won't get you better.  You have to work with her, follow her advice and start to do the homework.  This is ruining your life and there's no need for that to be.  The longer it goes on the more areas of your life it will attach to.  Really think about this Cora....the way you're handling this, the OCD way, isn't helping you or your relationship with others.  There is nothing to lose by doing it another way.  Your way way isn't working

I'm going to have to be a lot stricter with things if you continue to use threads to use compulsions {confessions, detailed descriptions, reassurance seeking).  This is something that is making things a lot worse.  It's something I'd prefer you to start working at yourself though.  I know your therapist has explained these things with you, it's time for some action 

[malina]

36 minutes ago, Cora said:

I just think it's my fault. My therapist is great and she really wants to help me. I know I sound like an idiot, but even after all this time I still don't know how to accept that this is OCD, especially because of all the events that have happened for the past year or so. 

It's a two way street with the therapist. She can be the loveliest person with the best intentions, but it's her job to help you learn to accept it as OCD and, if she can't do that, she is not doing what she is supposed to. On your end, you have to help her get the job done by listening and doing the things she tells you to do.

I guess you just have to ask yourself why you think everyone is lying to you. What kind of reason does anyone have to tell a child molester that they just have OCD and that they haven't done anything wrong? Because that is essentially what you're saying, that you are this monster and we (including the multiple therapists you have seen) are all just placating you and telling you that your terrible actions are alright. I'm not saying that you did terrible actions or that you're a monster, these are your words. Do you really believe that people would do this for you - try to tell you that you haven't done anything wrong when you actually have? If not, then maybe you need to accept that we all see and know something you don't and that it is your judgement that is clouded, because you're in the minority with how you see and interpret things.

And I know that it all feels incredibly real, but you have to put your trust in someone else's hands, someone who sees things more clearly than you and let them guide you out of this mess that you're in.

Cora, right now you are drowning...and if I was drowning I'd be waving my hands around and screaming for help. You have to fight for yourself and your survival. That means pushing your GP for a referral and actually doing what your therapist tells you to do. I wish someone could just do or say the right thing to make you understad it, but that's impossible, it all comes with your own hard work. 

 

[Cora]

Thank you, @Caramoole. You are very understanding and kind. 

When I talked to the GP I did mention that it was affecting almost every aspect of my life but there was nothing they could do help me with my OCD. But I was never specific about what thoughts I had, I only told them I'm struggling with disturbing intrusive thoughts. 

30 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

Ultimately, you will have to Cora....even if you don't believe it.  There haven't actually been any events....What there have been are intrusive thoughts to normal situations and because you have addressed them with all the wrong behaviours, they seem real.  They're not real.

I want to believe that it's all intrusive thoughts but I did move my body in certain ways as a result of thoughts in so many cases. 

For example, yesterday, for the first time in a while, I played with my boyfriend's dog and didn't feel any groinal responses or sexual impulses, or disgusting thoughts. It felt amazing to behave like a normal person and not feel like a freak. But that brought memories of when I used to play with him when I had really bad thoughts and urges. A part of me thinks I abused him because there were times when I would give him a stroke only as a result/impulse of the thought/urge.

I'm going to talk about it with my therapist but I don't know... 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Cora

[Cora]

Thank you, @malina.

4 minutes ago, malina said:

guess you just have to ask yourself why you think everyone is lying to you. What kind of reason does anyone have to tell a child molester that they just have OCD and that they haven't done anything wrong? Because that is essentially what you're saying, that you are this monster and we (including the multiple therapists you have seen) are all just placating you and telling you that your terrible actions are alright. I'm not saying that you did terrible actions or that you're a monster, these are your words. Do you really believe that people would do this for you - try to tell you that you haven't done anything wrong when you actually have? If not, then maybe you need to accept that we all see and know something you don't and that it is your judgement that is clouded, because you're in the minority with how you see and interpret things.

This makes so much sense! And I do trust you, I promise. I know you are right, but for some reason, and I hate that, I always come back to the conclusion that I did act on my thoughts/urges. 

Thank you again. 

[malina]

1 minute ago, Cora said:

Thank you, @malina.

This makes so much sense! And I do trust you, I promise. I know you are right, but for some reason, and I hate that, I always come back to the conclusion that I did act on my thoughts/urges. 

Thank you again. 

I know that you probably think people just misinterpret what you said, or don't believe you or missed a detail. But your confessions so far have been so detailed and clear, I think the only way you could be even clearer about what you think you did wrong is if you came and shouted it in my face. Yet all the feedback you get is the same, from literally everyone you have spoken to.

This "some reason" is the OCD, it's the doubt and the disorder doing its thing.

So come on...you have an abundance of advice, start putting it into practice!

[Caramoole]

So I'll take you back to Marina's question.

You have your GP's, two professional Therapists, Me, Marina, Polar Bear, countless others, your boyfriend, your family all ignoring the fact that you have told us you are a danger to children, to animals, to your Mum.  That you are a dangerous Paedophile who is at risk of harming small children.  And yet we are encouraging you to carry on as normal and put these people and pets at risk.  Why is that do you think?  Why has no-one called the Police or reported you to the authorities?  Why hasn't this forum and the Charity been investigated for encouraging criminal behaviour?

[Cora]

Thank you, @malina and @Caramoole.

4 hours ago, Caramoole said:

Why is that do you think?  Why has no-one called the Police or reported you to the authorities?  Why hasn't this forum and the Charity been investigated for encouraging criminal behaviour?

I guess that means this is just OCD. 

For tonight I will try and treat this as OCD. Currently I'm convinced that I abused my boyfriend's dog but I will trust you and that you know better and try to not think about it. I know tomorrow it's going to kick in even harder but that's fine.

Once again, thank you very much, malina and caramoole.

[Caramoole]

4 minutes ago, Cora said:

For tonight I will try and treat this as OCD

No not for tonight Cora......from now on.  Even when the doubt creeps back (and it will) you have to bring yourself back to this knowledge

[malina]

44 minutes ago, Cora said:

I know tomorrow it's going to kick in even harder but that's fine.

Yes Cora, this is one thing I have struggled with a lot. It's manageable to ignore something for one day, but the next day it comes back even stronger. But I learned that, when it comes back, you keep treating as OCD. You sit through the anxiety and pain and eventually it will decline too. This is how you build resilience and become stronger. Take it one day at a time.

[Caramoole]

Cora....stop reading the forums & go to bed

 

[Cora]

5 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

Cora....stop reading the forums & go to bed

 

I'm sorry, @Caramoole. Thanks to you and malina I had an hour of peace, more or less, but then my brain decided to dig more into the situation with my boyfriend's dog and I can't calm down or sleep, or do anything else. And of course I want to confess again. I really feel like I abused him by stroking him immediately after having a disgusting thought. Ah, this is so hard. 

[Cora]

2 minutes ago, Cora said:

I'm sorry, @Caramoole. Thanks to you and malina I had an hour of peace, more or less, but then my brain decided to dig more into the situation with my boyfriend's dog and I can't calm down or sleep, or do anything else. And of course I want to confess again. I really feel like I abused him by stroking him immediately after having a disgusting thought. Ah, this is so hard. 

I'm sorry. I know this looks like I don't care about what you say or how much you've helped me, but I promise, that's not how I actually feel. 

[Cora]

Again, I'm really sorry. 

[Caramoole]

Next bit of homework.......resist apologising

[Cora]

Thank you, @Caramoole. 

[MarieJo]

Cora, you said your brain decided to think about the situation with your dog...as if you have zero control over your compulsion to ruminate. Here's the thing, you do. You can choose not to and believe us when we say it works, it really really works..it really helps to stop ruminating.

In November I had a really distressing obsession (I will not go into). I ruminated for days on end, weeks on end, almost 6 weeks on one thing. I stopped eating, I was quiet, I was biting my arm to cause physical pain to take the mental pain away. I even thought dying would be better than what i was going through.

I kissed my 11 year old's head one day and in my mind I was thinking this might be one of the last times I ever kiss you as I cannot live like this. I saw his smiling innocent face and I felt so full of guilt and anguish.

My husband took me away for the weekend as he just thought I was down. Every single second of that whole weekend i was mentally ruminating and doing compulsions. I wanted to just disappear as the pain was getting worse and worse.

I joined this site and took advice from very experienced people like Polar Bear etc and I consciously stopped ..well not completely but really reduced..doing compulsions and i started to ferl better slowly and now i hardly think of that thing that almost killed me.

Now..I know I have talked a lot about myself but it's because I want to draw parallels and help you. I have suffered with OCD for 38 years and only now do i realise what i need and needed to do to make it better. I am not cured, i had a bit of a wobble today with checking things which i know is a compulsion but i now realise what i am doing and then i try so hard to stop.

Please listen to Malina and Caramoole and all the fantastically helpful people as you are a young girl and you so deserve to live a happy and fulfilling life. OCD will destroy you if you let it.  You can stop compulsions. You can stop ruminating on these obsessions. You can choose to leave the obsessions alone. You must leave them alone Cora as you will never ever ever get the clarity you crave whilst ruminating. All thatvwill happen is more doubt will set in and more questions..more obsessions and more pain.

 Fight back!!!!!

Edited March 4, 2021 by MarieJo

[Cora]

Thank you, @MarieJo for your support. I really appreciate it. And I'm really sorry that OCD had such a terrible impact on your life. However, it's good to hear that things as slowly improving! 

[Cora]

@Caramoole and @malina, I would like to ask for your help once again. 

Today I had a massive urge to try to understand why I acted the way I did in certain situations, because to me that was not appropriate behaviour. For example, once I gave my brother a kiss on the cheek thinking that he was enjoying it in sexual way. I'm trying to tell myself that it doesn't mean anything but I feel like that's the wrong approach. If it doesn't mean anything, especially that I am a child abuser, then why did I do it? I feel like some things are not meant to be treated as unimportant and the situation I mentioned above is one of them. 

Thank you. 

[Caramoole]

I'm sorry Cora but we'll be giving no answers to that question

Think (briefly) why. It's been explained many times now why answering such questions isn't helpful and why asking them is a compulsion. You've had the explanations here and from your therapist.  You have to think it through and recall the reasons why.

[Cora]

I understand, that would be giving reassurance. 

But it feels so bad to accept it as OCD. 

[Caramoole]

You're going to have to think back to your therapy sessions and then sit with the anxiety without trying to reduce your anxiety by carrying out compulsions.  I'm not going to help you with those compulsions.

[Cora]

37 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

You're going to have to think back to your therapy sessions and then sit with the anxiety without trying to reduce your anxiety by carrying out compulsions.  I'm not going to help you with those compulsions.

Thank you, @Caramoole. 

[snowbear]

2 hours ago, Cora said:

I'm trying to tell myself that it doesn't mean anything but I feel like that's the wrong approach. I feel like some things are not meant to be treated as unimportant and the situation I mentioned above is one of them. 

Hi Cora,

Hopefully by now you've gone through some basic CBT with your therapist, enough to understand that a big problem in OCD is getting it wrong when you decide what things mean.

One example is deciding to give importance to your OCD thoughts because it feels wrong to treat them as unimportant. But just because it feels that way doesn't mean it is that way. That's where you can get tripped up. You end up going round in circles, basing the meaning of things on how they feel and trusting your feelings because of the meaning you gave them.

 

1 hour ago, Cora said:

But it feels so bad to accept it as OCD. 

This is another example of how you've decided what something means and then got tripped up by the consequences of giving it that meaning.

'If I label this as OCD that means I might be a bad person being let off the hook'.

Rather than take that chance you're obliged to label it as child abuse. Which convinces you you're a bad person, which strengthens the feeling you shouldn't label it as OCD...and round you go in the same circle again.

But accepting it as OCD means nothing of the sort!

Try these alternative meanings:

'If I accept this is OCD that means I accept I might have interpreted my thoughts/feelings wrong. It doesn't mean I'm a good person or bad person.'

'If I accept this as OCD that means I'm gaining insight into my problems and moving forward with my recovery. '

Break away from thinking 'Having OCD lets me off the hook.' It doesn't. That's you deciding what having OCD means, getting it wrong and then getting stuck in a circle because you gave it the wrong meaning.