Radiation- any physics experts here?

[Robin43]

I am struggling so badly for the last 5 weeks...I set myself a homework of facing my biggest fear-our smoke detector. I opened the outside cover of it and touched all the inside parts of it, including the outside of the ionisation chamber and now I am convinced that I have got radiation inside me due to the smoke detector containing radiation. I read online that smoke detectors radiation can leak out the vents of the ionisation chamber and because my detector is about 25 years old I just fear this has happened to me when I touched this. Do you think this homework was a step too far, I should say that my theme is radiation. I need to know if my concerns are rational-they feel rational as I read this is something which can actually happen. I cannot get it out of my head morning, noon or night. I have been looking up places to get it leak tested and even enquiring about getting tested for radiation. I honestly can't cope and I have lost interest in life-I just feel like I have destroyed myself and that I am going to die early.

[PolarBear]

Well, I'm not going to entertain your OCD by debating what ifs.

You likely did too big an exposure at the time. Nothing you can do about that now.

Now you did the exposure part of ERP but you aren't entirely following up on the response prevention. That part means not doing compulsions.

No Googling about radiation and smoke detectors. No contemplating having the thing tested and certainly don't get it tested. 

And lastly, what are you doing about the big compulsion, ruminating? You've likely spent weeks ruminating about this.

This all needs to be figured out before exposures are done, else things can backfire, which they did for you.

[Robin43]

Thanks @PolarBearit was actually a therapist who made me do it as my first exposure-a well known and recommended london ocd therapist. It has led me to a meltdown and I think I will never get over it. I am going to believe everyday that my life is over.

[PolarBear]

Unless you change your thinking and behavior, in which case you can get past this.

[Caramoole]

41 minutes ago, Robin43 said:

it was actually a therapist who made me do it as my first exposure-a well known and recommended london ocd therapist

Did they ever follow up on this? And what did they say?

[Robin43]

@CaramooleTo be honest I left them after they made me do this exposure, they said they wouldn't have known how badly it would trigger me. Why do you ask this- do you think it was a dangerous exposure?

Edited March 26, 2021 by Robin43

[Caramoole]

I'm not going to comment on the last question, and you should be looking to trying not to ask it   

I ask because it's something you should have worked with them with. It is reasonable that they didn't perhaps expect this particular reaction but the next step would have been for them to work with you to deal with the outfall and modify/tailor exposures accordingly.  It looks as though you fled, which wasn't probably the best thing for you to do

[Robin43]

Thanks @CaramooleI am just scared about ERP for radiation as I don't want to do any exposures which are actually putting me at an actual risk.

[Caramoole]

You can't do ERP without targeting the thing you fear, that's the whole purpose of it.  However, if it's tailored properly it shouldn't be traumatic

[MentalChecker]

7 hours ago, Robin43 said:

Thanks @CaramooleI am just scared about ERP for radiation as I don't want to do any exposures which are actually putting me at an actual risk.

Hi mate, what risk do you think its putting you at? What's your fear? 

[Robin43]

Hi @MentalChecker, smoke detectors contain radiation, I am concerned because my smoke detector is 27 years old that the radiation has leaked out the ionisation chamber vents and because I was touching the ionisation chamber, the radiation has got inside me.

[MentalChecker]

2 hours ago, Robin43 said:

Hi @MentalChecker, smoke detectors contain radiation, I am concerned because my smoke detector is 27 years old that the radiation has leaked out the ionisation chamber vents and because I was touching the ionisation chamber, the radiation has got inside me.

Without trying to reassure you, and as Logic doesn't work with OCD, do you not realise that you've been exposed to much higher levels of radiation naturally throughout life?

I don't know if you smoke or drink, but if you do, then they would have also contaminated your body?

Eating certain foods I. E cured meats etc is also contaminating your body? 

The only reason you're worried specifically about Radiation is because OCD has latched onto it, however it can also latch onto any of the above examples I've given if you spend enough time ruminating about it?

You need to stop ruminating and the fear will fade into the background and no longer bother you, and also accept that yes you may have contaminated your body with Radiation by touching the smoke alarm, however you've also contaminated your body with a lot of other things throughout life and your body is no longer 100% pure, and will never be, and will only ever be getting more contaminated the older you get.... That is life. 

[Robin43]

Thank you @MentalCheckerfor taking the time to reply. I just panicked as I read if Americium enters the body it stays there for years and the radiation remains inside you. I just can't get it out of my head. A total nightmare to be honest.

[dksea]

2 hours ago, Robin43 said:

Thank you @MentalCheckerfor taking the time to reply. I just panicked as I read if Americium enters the body it stays there for years and the radiation remains inside you. I just can't get it out of my head. A total nightmare to be honest.

Sorry you are struggling @Robin43.

OCD is a total nightmare for sure, but that’s the actual problem you are facing believe it or not, not radiation. 
You are right when you say you panicked, but that doesn’t mean you panicked for a good reason. It certainly feels that way to you, but that’s what OCD does to us, it takes unreasonable reactions and tries to convince us they are reasonable.

Your therapist did not mislead you, you were perfectly fine to touch the smoke detecto, including the ionization chamber. I could go in to various details about the type of radiation involved, the safe guards in place, etc but trust me, your mind would imagine more scenarios to worry about.   Working on OCD recovery with a therapist and especially not running away when there are bad moments is how you’ll get better.  Panicking, unnecessarily in particular, won’t help.  Consider what you say here:

 

18 hours ago, Robin43 said:

I honestly can't cope and I have lost interest in life-I just feel like I have destroyed myself and that I am going to die early.

Think about this for a minute. Your fear is you’ll die early right?  But because the OCD has spiraled out of control you are basically already living your worst fear. You say you’ve lost interest in life, convinced you’ve destroyed yourself. Well heck, what more can happen in that case?  The whole reason we don’t want to die is so we can ENJOY life.  Right now the OCD is (fortunately temporarily) taking that joy away anyway!  Radiation or no radiation, you’re already suffering!  OCD is the real problem because OCD is what’s ruining your life!

Look, as much as it sucks to think about, the reality is someday you’re going to die. Ok MAYBE you’re a Highlander, born to be immortal (cue Queen music), etc etc. But probably not. Like all other living things you will die.  Hopefully not for many years but eventually. It could happen tomorrow. An aneurysm. A meteorite.  Alien invasion. Who knows. Or it could happen 50 years from now. We don’t know. Again, it sucks to think about BUT what is important is to make the most of the time we do have. And trust me when I tell you that living under the thumb of OCD is the opposite of that.  The sooner you get a handle on OCD, the more time you’ll have to enjoy life, the better off you’ll be.  OCD is far and away a much bigger threat to your life and happiness than your smoke detector. It sucks that right now the idea of radiation causes you such anxiety, I understand really, but if you want to beat that fear you need to beat the OCD.  All the radiation research and worry about radiation etc in the world won’t help.  Beating OCD will. 

[Robin43]

Thanks @dksea that is a very good reply you have given me and I appreciate it. I just as really fearful as I read online that old smoke detectors can leak radiation out the vents of the ionisation chamber and the thought is haunting me.

[Caramoole]

You need to think about rearranging some professional therapy again

[Robin43]

@CaramooleI have been referred to OHSPIC 6 weeks ago but I fear it will be a long wait for it. Do you have any idea how long a referral there normally takes?

Edited March 27, 2021 by Robin43

[Handy]

Smoke detector radiation is just a tiny amount, 1/100 milirem per year.  By contrast natural radiation exposure is 360 millirem per year. So it’s safe to do your exposure. It’s quite a trip, isn’t it? You should do it again 

[Robin43]

Thanks @Handy I know that is how much radiation that is given off by them but I was worried as I read online by a Physicist that alpha recoil can break the seal around the source and cause the radiation to leak out the vents of the ionisation chamber, and it was the outside of the ionisation chamber which I touched

[dksea]

17 hours ago, Robin43 said:

Thanks @dksea that is a very good reply you have given me and I appreciate it. I just as really fearful as I read online that old smoke detectors can leak radiation out the vents of the ionisation chamber and the thought is haunting me.

Hi again @Robin43

You are engaged in a common OCD behavior, one I’ve been guilty of many a time in the past, as are probably all of us. It’s the “OK, but...” pattern. We ask for advice/help/reassurance, someone offers it, we listen hoping it will make the doubt vanish (wouldn’t that be nice) but OCD is tricky and it doesn’t. So we fall back on the what if’s...  

“OK, you say I don’t have to worry about this but what IF the radiation leaked out. Radiation can cause cancer!  I don’t want to get cancer!”  Cue anxiety. 
 

Trust me, I understand, as I said I’ve been guilty of falling in to the same trap many a time myself, it’s hard to push back against the OCD.

Can you or I or someone imagine a possible scenario where you get sufficient radiation poisoning from the smoke detector to get cancer?  Sure.  But lots of scenarios are imaginable. I could imagine a scenario where I become Pope and you become the Queen of England!  But those things aren’t likely just because we can imagine them.  
 

“But DKSea,” you say “this is totally different!  I actually TOUCHED the smoke detector!  And I read online where this physicist guy said...”

So first, a reminder that just because you read something on the internet doesn’t mean it’s true, and even if it’s true it doesn’t mean you fully understand the likelihood of it happening.

Second, yes, right now this fear SEEMS reasonable to you, after all you keep having it, but feeling fear and actually being in danger are different things.

Imagine you are walking in the woods one day and you hear a noise in the bushes.  “Oh no! It’s a bear!” you think and start to panic.  Just as you are about to run, screaming in terror as fear rushes over you, a nice cute little bunny rabbit hops out of the bushes.  There is no bear.  There never WAS a bear.  You later find out bears don’t even live in those woods or anywhere near it.  The fear you felt was genuine, you WERE afraid.  But you weren’t at risk (well from the bear at least, it COULD have been a vampire rabbit after all).  Just because you feel fear about something doesn’t mean it’s actually a real threat.

Yes you have the fear of radiation right now. It’s hard to shake, pops up when you really don’t want it too, hurts a lot. But you have to make a choice in spite all of that to start treating that fear as unnecessary, to accept that continuing to ruminate on this, to research about radiation on the internet, etc isn’t going to help.  Learning how to properly respond to OCD will though. I hope you are able to connect with a therapist again soon, and to understand that part of recovery involves doing things you don’t like but are ultimately for your benefit (kinda like exercise). It’s definitely not always a smooth ride, but it’s worthwhile.  Way better than spending the rest of your life increasingly under the control of the fears

 

 

[MentalChecker]

2 hours ago, Robin43 said:

Thanks @Handy I know that is how much radiation that is given off by them but I was worried as I read online by a Physicist that alpha recoil can break the seal around the source and cause the radiation to leak out the vents of the ionisation chamber, and it was the outside of the ionisation chamber which I touched

Hi Robin, with the greatest respect, your trying to gain 'certainty' that you haven't been contaminated with Radiation and everything is OK... A common theme for most of us on here, we've all been there.... 

No matter who reassures you, or how many people reassure you, and no matter how many times, no amount will be enough to stop the OCD.

Next you will be thinking 'how do I know they are correct' or 'how do I know they are being honest with me and not just trying to make me feel better'.... We have all been there. 

You need to stop engaging with this obsession and leave it 'unresolved', it is perfectly natural in life to leave things unresolved, we don't need to know anything with certainty, we can live without it and we do it everyday with things without even realising, unless of course its one of our Obsessions! 

[Robin43]

Thanks @dksea and @MentalChecker. I appreciate the time you have taken to reply to me. It means a lot.

[brainwaffle]

Hi @Robin43

I'm a former physicist with a PhD in radiation detection and measurement.

The Americium in smoke detectors is a thin metal strip stuck to a metal disk, housed in a plastic container. It's around 1uCi in activity and emits mostly alpha particles with some very low level gamma rays. For comparison, I used to work with radiation sources of 10uCi - 100uCi, every day, for 3 years and my radiation badge barely registered anything above background radiation.

The alpha radiation emitted by Americium in smoke detectors is completely absorbed by the internal housing. Even if that broke somehow, alpha particles are absorbed by a few centimetres of air.

To have any risk of even minor radiation damage, you'd have to pry open the detector, smash open the plastic container and eat the metal disk!

The gamma rays from 1 uCi of Americium are so weak they barely register on a detector at point blank range.

Putting your finger on or near a smoke detector will do absolutely nothing. Installation engineers handle them every day and don't need a radiation badge.

This is 100% OCD and you need to treat the thoughts and worries as such, as others have suggested.

As an aside, best practice is to replace your smoke detectors every 10 years, as they become less effective over time.

[Robin43]

Thanks @brainwaffle, I was so worried though as a Physicist wrote online that "it is the alpha recoil reaction that can destroy the thin coating over the source and allow source material to recoil out of the source" and that this would contaminate the outside of the ionisation chamber with Americium. Do you know anything about this?

[brainwaffle]

I've found the post you're referring to, about a detector made in the 1970's and it sounds like pseudoscience. I can't find any examples of Americium in smoke detectors causing visible damage to their surroundings.