Please help

[Moser]

On fall of 2016, I made a promise to God about not smoking again and I think punishment was asked in case breaking the promise.

I tried to use the promise to force myself stop smoking. I was worrying for my health and sinning. Also, I was trying to stop it but I always ended up spending money and buying a pack that sometimes, I would throw away. I just thought that a promise to God would be a good way to force myself stop that bad habit.

In 2017, I smoked very, very little and I think nothing bad happened but I stopped again.

In 2018, I started having irrational fears about God. My ocd created an hypothetical scenario about a very specific bad punishment, that was not related to the smoking promise. I started thinking and analyzing about that very specific bad punishment.

In 2019, I smoked very, very little again and stopped. I smoked because I was able to ignore all these irrational fears. Plus I said to myself that the smoking promise (which was on 2016) was made BEFORE all these irrational fears. So, somehow I convinced myself that there was no danger of that specific bad punishment happening because I did not ask it and as a thought/fear was created much later.

Now, I worry because:

1) What if other Gods accepted the smoking promise?

2) What if my ocd cant be blamed for the smoking promise?

3) what if Gods decided that my irrational fears about a very specific bad punishment (which appeared after the smoking promise) was a good way to be punished for smoking on 2019?

I smoked because I separated those irrational fears from the smoking promise because the promise was made much earlier. I will give a similar example of that specific punishment (and not the same).

A man's irrational fear is about becoming bald but unable to see his baldness while all others see it. He breaks an old promise to Gods and the man now worries that maybe Gods punished him with what he fears, even though he did not ask it. The man now worries that he maybe became bald but unable to see his baldness. When he looks in the mirror, he sees his usal hair as an illusion.

[Moser]

Some years ago, I was smoking and I was trying to stop it because I was worrying about my health and the sin of smoking. I tried to stop it but I ended up bying a pack, smoking 2-3 cigarettes and then, throwing it away.

In 2016, I made a promise to God about never smoking again. A punishment (not specified) was asked in case breaking the promise. I was trying to use the fear of punishment to force myself to stop smoking.

In 2017, I smoked very little but nothing happened in terms of a punishment I think. I stopped smoking again.

In 2018, I started having irrational fears about a very specific bad punishment from God that was not related to the smoking promise.

In 2019, I smoked again but very, very little and then, stopped. The reason of smoking was that I wanted to smoke again because I wanted to feel free from my ocd and its fears. I was able to separate the irrational fear of that specific bad punishment from the generic punishment that was asked in case breaking the smoking promise. Plus when I smoked in 2017 probably nothing bad happened.

The smoking promise was made on 2016 but the fear of that very specific bad punishment appeared on 2018. I mean, I never asked for that specific bad punishment when I made the smoking promise. I did not even had it as a fear that time. So, I was able to label the fear of that specific bad punishment as ocd and nothing more. Thats why I smoked again on 2019 very, very little.

Now, I worry for these reasons:
1) What if the smoking promise was accepted by other Gods?
2) I never asked for that specific bad punishment but I asked for a generic punishment. What if Gods thought that it is a good idea to be punished with that specific bad punishment, even though I did not ask it, just because I asked for a non-specific punishment?

I am worrying because that specific bad punishment is invisiblse. I will tell you a similar example of that specific punishment but not the same.

Someone makes a promise that he wont smoke and he asks for a non-specific punishment. He smokes again and nothing happens. Some months later, he starts having irrational fears about a very specific bad punishment from Gods that are NOT related to the smoking promise. He smokes again and now he worries that Gods maybe decided to punish him with that specific bad punishment (that his ocd created), even though he did not ask for it when he tried to make the promise.
That punishment is invisible. The man fears that he maybe became bald but unable to see his loss of hair. He looks in the mirror and he sees his usual hair as an illusion. He is bald and he cant see it.

If someone makes a promise about never doing something again and does it 2 times, is the promise broke once or twice?

Edited April 21, 2021 by Caramoole
Title edited

[Moser]

I tried to force myself stop smoking by making a promise to God. A NON-SPECIFIC punishment was asked in case breaking the promise in order to use the fear of the punishment to force myself to never smoke again!

Some months later, I smoked very, very little but probably nothing happened in terms of a punishment.

A year later, I started having irrational fears about being punished from God for other reasons, by becoming ugly and unable to see the uglyness. I mean, ocd was telling me what if I became ugly and unable to see my uglynesS? I was looking myself in the mirror to make sure that I did not become ugly but my ocd was telling me what if I am seeing an illusion?

It was just an ocd fear related to my appearence. I wanted to smoke again because ocd was telling me not to and I wanted to do what I want in order to show my ocd that I am not a prisoner of it.

Ocd was threating me with that specific, invisible, ugly punishment from God in case smoking because I made a promise that I wont smoke again

When I made the promise about never smoking, a non-specific punishment was asked in case breaking the promise because that time I did NOT have those irrational fears. So, when I was thinking about smoking again, I tried not to connect the smoking/promise/punishment with my irrational fears of punishment. Plus I had already smoked BEFORE the irrational fears and probably nothing happened.

So, I smoked again! That was on 2019. Now, I worry. What if the smoking promise was accepted by other Gods? Since I asked for a non-specific punishment, what if Gods thought that it is a good idea to be punished with my irrational fears of punishment that are about becoming ugly and unable to see my uglyness?

[Caramoole]

Moser.......the post above is a massive example of a compulsion.  It is very similar to many others you have made.  Several posters have tried to explain why this is going to help maintain the problem with your OCD and advice as to how you can/should try to reduce and change this way of coping with anxiety caused by your OCD.  The forum cannot help you with your compulsions in this way by offering you reassurance.  We won't discuss particular (or other similar) fears because they are obsessions.

Much can be done by sufferers to help themselves by using the advice on why compulsions are the thing that maintain OCD and how we can start to change that.  We would also recommend that you see your GP and ask for specialist help to start the process of recovery.

We can't comment or offer opinion about the details you've written above as this would simply be assisting you with a behaviour that is maintaining your OCD.  Please read through some of your other threads, have a think about what has been advised and see if you can have a think about the things you can start to change to try and improve your situation.

[Caramoole]

I've also merged your two threads as they are both the same content.  

[Caramoole]

I've now merged a third thread of the same.  Please don't start anymore bew threads as sadly, they will be merged together with existing ones

[Moser]

In 2016, I wanted to give up smoking but I could not. I was afraid of my health and sinning against God. So, I tried to force myself stop that bad habit by making a promsie to God and asking for a NON-SPECIFIC punishment in case breaking it, in order to ensure that I will stop it.

I stopped smoking (despite having smoked some cigarettes in 2017)

In 2018, I started having some irrational fears about a very specific bad punishment from God but for other reasons (not related to the smoking promise)

In 2019, I could not control myself and smoked some cigarettes. Now, I worry for 2 reasons:

1) What if the promise was accepted by other Gods if Christian God is not real?

2) Since a non-specific punishment was asked in case breaking the promise, what if Gods considered that the specific bad punishment idea (which my ocd created) is a good way to be punished?

If my mind had created those fears earlier, I would not dare to make the promise probably. So, since it created that fear much later AFTER the smoking promise, what if Gods considered that it is a good idea of punishment?

 I have said many times in the past that I do not want to be punished. Do you think the promise counted on the first place? In the past, I have prayed many times for all promises to be canceled. Were they canceled?

 So, if my mind had not create that bad idea of punishment, I would not worry so much but since it created it, what if Gods thought that it is a good idea of punishment? Thats why I am angry with my self (for making the promies) and maybe with my luck (for creating the fear of that specific punishment).

[Caramoole]

Hi Moser

I did ask yesterday that you didn't keep starting new threads with more or less the same content.  This is now the 4th thread I've merged.  Please keep your posts on this thread.  I'm afraid I will remove any more new threads which simply repeat the same details.

[Moser]

The dizzyness first started after walking for more than 1 hour. After some time and rest, I was feeling normal.

 

Then, the dizzynes stayed, even after rest. I was feeling much better after sleeping and waking up the next day.

 

Then, the dizzyness  became worse after waking up and I was having it for 2-3 days. I was feeling nauseous, i was getting chills and the dizzyness was like having a fever or like inhaling too much smoke from cigarettes. I went to neurologoist told me to do MRI scan and get Vertio Home N something like that. MRI scans were fine and the pill did not work. I slowly started feeling better and better. Then, the same cycle happened. The symptoms appeared after working out. and now, I have them full day but not so intense as it was the first time.

If it is because of my anxiety what medicine should I get? Will cipralex help? Is there any relaiton between anxiety and working out? I mean, why the symptoms appear mostly after workout?

[Caramoole]

Moser I have asked you now many times not to create new threads with the same content, so far I have merged them for you.  Snowbear locked a thread yesterday for the same reason.  I'm afraid that this is the final warning, any further new threads simply repeating the same will be removed.

[Moser]

can I post my same problems in the same thread?

[Caramoole]

1 hour ago, Moser said:

can I post my same problems in the same thread?

It depends, it will depend on the content really.  So far you are simply using the threads to carry out your compulsions by repeating the same/similar details, seeking reassurance whilst not engaging with or using any of the advice given. This isn't a helpful way to use the forums, nor helpful in your recovery so it is very possible that (as yesterday) we may lock or even remove posts.

We can try to help where that's possible but we can't really advise on medical problems. It seems that you've had tests to rule out serious causes, it's likely that your dizziness is caused by anxiety.  What are you doing to try and address both that and your OCD?

[Moser]

I will go to a psychiatrist after I return to my base city soon. I have been told about a very good psychiatrist.

 

til then what i can do? reassurance helps me

[Caramoole]

1 hour ago, Moser said:

 

til then what i can do? reassurance helps me

For a very short time perhaps.  Unfortunately, it is known that reassurance seeking is a compulsion that worsens OCD which is why we can't support you in this way.

Are you seeking reassurance from other sources, family, friends?  It is something that you should work on trying to reduce.  Become aware of how often you use this method to bring your anxiety down & then do your very best to resist doing.  At first you might only feel able to delay asking but give it a try.  Know that this is a symptom of this disorder but harmful to your recovery.  Writing down your obsessions in great detail is another compulsion, something you've kept doing on the forum.  Again, it doesn't help.  Try and have a think and see if you can identify any other compulsions that you do to try and bring your anxiety down

[BigDave]

Like Caramoole said, reassurance has this can get knack of providing a temporary release of anxiety but it doesn’t deal with the problem and the anxiety will return. If you sit with the anxiety, eventually it will go down without the compulsion. And it is long term more effective. 

[Moser]

can i ask a question more directly (i probably have asked it) but I want to ask it more directly.

 

 

I have ocd from my teenage years. My ocd were intrusive thoughts and fear. I tried to give up smoking by making a promise to God twice and asking for a non-specific punishment in case breaking it, because I was afraid of my health, afraid of sinning and wanted to prove God that I want another chance. The second promise was made under duress from fear. I probably thought that if I do not do the second promise (even though the first one failed), I would end up smoking again and again and worrying. So, I made the second promise to end the smoking case one and for all. I have conscience in what I was saying.

 

My question is this:

Why this 2 smoking promises (specifically) were made because of my ocd? I mean, if I did not have ocd, wouldn't I have made the promises?

 

 

[snowbear]

1 hour ago, Moser said:

My question is this:

Why this 2 smoking promises (specifically) were made because of my ocd? I mean, if I did not have ocd, wouldn't I have made the promises?

 

My response is this:

Why does it matter? Do you intend to start smoking again? I've often said the best gift a smoker can give themselves is to stop. There aren't usually benefits to having OCD, but if you quit smoking because of OCD this might just be one good thing to come out of it!

[Moser]

well my ocd has to  do with fear of punishment and there were a few times that I smoked normal cigarettes.

 

so, I try to understand if those promises were something that even a healthy person would worry about. if a healthy would worry about the promises/punishment then, that means that it is something that affects my ocd but it is not related to it.

 

i am not sure if i make sense.

[snowbear]

2 hours ago, Moser said:

. if a healthy would worry about the promises/punishment then, that means that it is something that affects my ocd but it is not related to it.

A person without your theme of OCD wouldn't be bothered one bit. Your issues are 100% OCD.

[Moser]

Would a person WITHOUT ocd have made a promise?

[Caramoole]

I doubt it.  But too many questions Moser that are looking to find reassurance

[Moser]

I cant deal with them!

I made twice a promsie to Christian God about not smoking again and asked for a non-specific punishment. I made those promsises because I could not give up smoking! I tried but failed! The smoking thought would always be on my head. I was worrying for my health and  the sin of smoking. Thats why I made the promises. I gave up smoking but there were times that I could not control myself and I smoked a very few cigarettes.

My ocd is like:

 

ocd: you made a promise to Christian God that you wont smoke and you asked for a nons-specific punishment in case breaking the promise twice! You gave up smoking but there were times that you smoked a few normal cigarettes. What if other Gods accepted your promises if CHristian God is not real? Oh you fear a specific bad punishment from Gods? Since you said to God/Gods about your fears/problems/worries, what if They considered that what you fear is a good way to be punished? You may have asked for forgiveness or for the promises to be canceled but what if Gods do not cancel promises? What if you angered Them? Sometimes, you feel calm because you think that Gods have forgiven you or that They would not punish you just because you made a promise twice. But what if you are wrong?  We do not know what is after death. We do not know if there are Gods or not. What makes you to be calm and happy about your problem?

 

How to deal with them?

Edited April 28, 2021 by Moser

[PolarBear]

Moser, continually reposting the same thing is a compulsion and not helpful. We aren't going to debate with you about these promises.

This isn't about promises. Lots of people make them. Lots of people break them. The problem is that you are fixated on them and that is causing you issues.

The way you become fixated on rhe thoughts of these promises is you react badly to them and you do compulsions. Lukely your biggest compulsion is ruminating, which is going over the thoughts in your head, again and again.

Another of your compulsions is your repeatedly posting thecsame story about the promises here.

You need to work on slowing down and stopping your compulsions, focusing your mind on other things.

[Precontemplative]

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Hi 'Moser'!

I think you are very unlikely to get reassurance from anyone on this forum (or even outside of it), as the questions you are asking about God or other gods are very metaphysical. These are the worst kind of questions to ask for reassurance on, and they are where OCD 'parks', because there are no answers that shift the questions away.

I'm an athiest (provisionally, until God turns up in person with full ID (!) to prove me wrong). Thus, to me the answer to your questions is simple: Your promise never resulted in any contract for a non-specific punishment. The broken promise did not matter. There never was any punishment.

However, you appear to be a Christian. I do not sneer at Christians like other athiests might, as I do not consider it unreasonable to believe there is a God, or be a Christian (or Muslim, or Jew, etc.).

But, which kind of Christian are you? Pentacostalist? Seventh Day Adventist? Which kind of Christian doubts the existence of the God of Abraham, and thinks there are other gods instead?

These 'gods', can you name them? Who are you talking about? Proteus? Ba'al? Zeus? Shiva? Who?

As for the idea that the Christian God is punishing you, well, it's clear to me even as an atheist that should He exist then He doesn't do that. He offers you a path to salvation through Jesus Christ during your lifetime, and Judgement and Punishment only happen _after_ you die, not before!

The idea of 'forcing' yourself to give up smoking by asking for punishment is silly. The addiction to smoking is very strong, so strong that the NHS here (you are not in the UK?) spends millions, perhaps billions, of pounds per year on this problem. You were very likely to fail giving up.

Maybe trying to give up in one go isn't realistic. I thought a better strategy was to cut down gently.

Also, smokers keep smoking to relieve stress and anxiety, so if you make yourself sick over this 'promise' illusion, it makes you want to smoke even more. OCD makes anxiety.

As for asking whether there are non-ill or ill people who would do this epromise thing, I don't know. The closest I can think of is people who for example make New Year resolutions such as I'm going to go to the gym every day and do the maximum workout without fail!" Then they find it's too hard and give up. Then they feel wretched about broken promises (to themselves, to God, to whoever). Then they excuse themselves by saying "next January, and this time I'll really mean it!"

These people may or may not be ill, I don't know. But they were unrealistic. Also, I say to them, if you really want to do something, why are you waiting until January, and why do you demand too much of yourself? Just start soon, and do a bit more that's a bit hard until you're comfortable, and then a bit more again.

Giving up smoking is tricky, most smokers will need to make several attempts to give up permanently, as the brain needs time to change again for the addiction to go.

Same with OCD, actually, though it's not an addiction, it just seems like one.

So, asking for a non-specific punishment was a bad move, as you set yourself up for doubt. How can you ever tell if you are being punished if you don't know what the punishment was going to be? OCD is centred on doubt, and you gave it a big doubt to work with. (And that is not an invite to make a request for a specific punishment!)

I could ask you why you have you not asked someone else whether you are really going bald to disprove the 'mirror illusion', but I can already work out what you'll say: "The person told me 'no, you're not going bald,' but I'm worried that the person said 'yes, I am going bald,' and that a god somewhere is changing what I hear."

If you engage in that kind of thinking, then you are engaging in tautologies, and you are lost. Then there is no way out for you.

Yet, I'd say that if there is any 'god' that is punishing you, it is one called 'Moser' because it is you. A healthy person would not do that to themselves. A healthy person would not think they can control and use God as a punishment weapon against themselves. Only ill people do that.

That sounds terrible, but there is good news: You can stop punishing yourself straight away. Stop the rumination and posting the same unanswerable questions, and then give up smoking gently.

Good luck with both giving up smoking and giving up OCD!


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