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11 minutes ago, Hdigtts said:

You do know what to do though Cora. You are the one who has the power.

You are right, @Hdigtts. But I just feel really bad today. Maybe it's because I haven't slept well for the past days.

These feelings are so bad... 

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7 minutes ago, Cora said:

I don't really have a plan. I'm finding it really hard to accept and treat this as OCD, especially with the guilt and shame on my shoulders so I am not sure what to do.

Maybe sit down, just as you would with a Uni assignment, and start on a plan Cora. Yes, the feelings are difficult and make things feel real, just as every other sufferer on this forum has experienced......but if you just keep writing down every incident that happens, and do nothing to change that response, you'll just keep on suffering.  If you wait to feel certainty, you'll be waiting for the next ten years.  Take a look at Nikki's post and see what a vast improvement can be made in just a couple of days by really working on reducing compulsions.

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1 minute ago, Cora said:

You are right, @Hdigtts. But I just feel really bad today. Maybe it's because I haven't slept well for the past days.

These feelings are so bad... 

sleep is massively important. If you are up together with your uni work and don’t have to be in work today then allow yourself some time to relax. Read a nice book or listen to a podcast. I know that’s what I like doing when it’s all getting a bit much.

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Just now, Caramoole said:

Maybe sit down, just as you would with a Uni assignment, and start on a plan Cora. Yes, the feelings are difficult and make things feel real, just as every other sufferer on this forum has experienced......but if you just keep writing down every incident that happens, and do nothing to change that response, you'll just keep on suffering.  If you wait to feel certainty, you'll be waiting for the next ten years.  Take a look at Nikki's post and see what a vast improvement can be made in just a couple of days by really working on reducing compulsions.

It makes me really upset that I'll never know whether these feelings represent who I am or not. Today it feels like I am my thoughts and feelings. 

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1 minute ago, Cora said:

It makes me really upset that I'll never know whether these feelings represent who I am or not. Today it feels like I am my thoughts and feelings. 

You'll never know as long as you keep handling things the way you do.  Your way doesn't work Cora.

Wishing it away won't work. Waiting for certainty won't work. Avoidance won't work. Seeking reassurance won't work. Confessing won't work. Researching & looking for comfort from other posts won't work.  Seeing therapists/primary care (without using the advice & doing) won't work. Using compulsions won't work.

Imagine, you open a magazine and see a photo and receipe for a scrumptious looking chocolate cake and decide to make it.  You follow the recipe to the letter and are surprised to see it has a large spoonful of pepper & a cup of vinegar in it.....but you follow the instructions and make the cake.  It tastes vile, it is absolutely horrible :yucky:  The following day you decide to give it another go and make it again.....you follow the recipe, you add the pepper & vinegar and guess what, it still tastes vile & makes you feel sick. You go online and find a cookery forum & explain about your cake.  They suggest you miss out the pepper & vinegar & add a bit more sugar.  You go away, get out the baking bowl & follow the recipe from the magazine.....it still tastes horrid.

This is what you're doing.  You are constantly using a recipe that will not work no matter how many times you try it.

You have the power to change Cora but it needs YOU to start the process & stick with it

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Hey @Cora,

so well done for resisting posting for almost a week, that is a start! But I was wondering, what do you do during these days to deal with the thoughts, when you're not confessing them to us?

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Just now, malina said:

Hey @Cora,

so well done for resisting posting for almost a week, that is a start! But I was wondering, what do you do during these days to deal with the thoughts, when you're not confessing them to us?

Hey @malina,

Well, sometimes I keep them for myself and feel pretty awful, sometimes I confess to my boyfriend because of how ashamed I feel, and sometimes I try to carry on with my daily activities and only think about them when I take breaks or before going to sleep. If a thought is not too bad, I manage to ignore it, but if it's something more difficult to deal with, such as the feelings and thoughts I mentioned earlier, I get stuck and ruminate a lot. 

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4 hours ago, Caramoole said:

This is what you're doing.  You are constantly using a recipe that will not work no matter how many times you try it.

It makes sense what you're saying, @Caramoole, but when it all feels so real and when you have no proof that you are not these thoughts/feelings, I get stuck with the same recipe. 

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2 hours ago, Cora said:

Hey @malina,

Well, sometimes I keep them for myself and feel pretty awful, sometimes I confess to my boyfriend because of how ashamed I feel, and sometimes I try to carry on with my daily activities and only think about them when I take breaks or before going to sleep. If a thought is not too bad, I manage to ignore it, but if it's something more difficult to deal with, such as the feelings and thoughts I mentioned earlier, I get stuck and ruminate a lot. 

As I was saying before, I think a big part of the problem here is that you don't have a plan and a strategy for dealing with the thoughts. When you're not doing one compulsion (confessing on the forum), you are doing others, like confessing to your boyfriend, ruminating etc. I bet there are other things in there too like avoidance. Some of it sounds good, like carrying on with your activities, but I feel like you are just ignoring the thoughts and holding on as long as you can to the daily routine until you can't ignore them anymore. This isn't really a sustainable way of dealing with the problem and that is why you come back with all these confessions. This is why I keep emphasising the fact that you need to see an OCD specialist for CBT. I don't think the skills you need can be learned easily alone, it isn't your fault that you don't know how to manage these thoughts. I think you have a lot of learning to do and you need the right person to teach you. So what is your plan in this regard? You're seeing primary care tomorrow and then what?

2 hours ago, Cora said:

It makes sense what you're saying, @Caramoole, but when it all feels so real and when you have no proof that you are not these thoughts/feelings, I get stuck with the same recipe. 

This is because you haven't tried the alterative recipe. You're stuck in a place of saying to yourself that these people on the forum are telling you to avoid putting vinegar and pepper into your chocolate cake, but the first recipe told you to do that, there is no proof that a chocolate cake could taste good without these ingredients. Sorry I'm really liking this chocolate cake analogy ?

Keep in mind that you are viewing all of this from the perspective where you are right now, you are still badly affected by these thoughts and they seem real to you, so you can't imagine a world where you don't believe them without proof. But as you get better, your perspective will shift and they will make less sense to you. As you recover, you will see more and more how little sense it makes and you won't need proof anymore.

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On 01/06/2021 at 18:50, malina said:

So what is your plan in this regard? You're seeing primary care tomorrow and then what?

Hey @malina,

Well, the appointment is actually next Tuesday so I still have to wait a bit. I know I said that I have another appointment at the end of this month, but I'll try to see if the one from next week could be the last one because I just can't see myself without the appropriate help for so long. 

Today I'm having another bad day. I decided to go for a walk in the park to make myself feel better but it backfired. A memory of how when I started having these thoughts (2 years or so) popped in. I remember that a friend of the neighbours' children was playing with the ball in the back garden and as I noticed that through the window (my window faces the garden), I had a thought that he was attractive - he was probably about a year or two younger than my brother so probably 8 or 9. The thoughts and feelings I had that day made me really upset and I kept ruminating about them for a week. One day, as I was lying on the bed, I started thinking about that kid in a very sick way. And I had a really strong groinal response. What I did next is very disturbing and gross. I crossed my thighs/legs together as a way of masturbation. And as you can remember from my thousands of other confessions this is not the first time when I had done such a thing. 

I'm trying to find an excuse for this (other than I might be a paedophile) which is that I have OCD and not everything with it makes sense but it sounds like I'm actually excusing a paedophilic behaviour. 

I feel awful. I need your support and help. How do I know that what I did was OCD related and not actually something truly disgusting that only paedophiles do? 

Thank you.

Edited by Cora
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1 hour ago, Cora said:

I feel awful. I need your support and help. How do I know that what I did was OCD related and not actually something truly disgusting that only paedophiles do? 

What you're really asking is "Reassure me Please"

:no: No Cora.  People have been doing this for the last two years....and as demonstrated, it does nothing to help you.Those explanations have been give so many times, you have to try and make changes to how you react in your behaviour and your thinking.

What have you planned for therapy.....and are you prepared to engage with it?

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16 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

What have you planned for therapy.....and are you prepared to engage with it?

I'm not sure if I'm ready to engage with it. I mean, I really want to but I'm not sure how or if it's going to work. 

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Just now, Cora said:

I'm not sure if I'm ready to engage with it. I mean, I really want to but I'm not sure how or if it's going to work. 

So what's your plan Cora?  Are you just going to live with it, to endure it?

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Just now, Cora said:

And you are right, @Caramoole, I do want reassurance. At the moment it's all I can think about. I constantly need to know whether people think I am a terrible person or not, whether I did something bad or not, and so on...

It's not something we are going to do Cora.  That's not what the forum is here for.  We are here to support recovery and help sufferers work towards that goal

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Just now, Caramoole said:

So what's your plan Cora?  Are you just going to live with it, to endure it?

No, I don't want to live with it, I'd have a very miserable life (much, much miserable than it is now). 

I want to engage with the therapy so much and do something (effective) about the way I deal with my thoughts and feelings but I just have this huuuge list of terrible things I think I did. It seems that occasionally I can have a period of a couple of weeks where this list doesn't affect me, but then I always come back to it, wanting to make sure that I didn't cause any harm to people in my life. And I'm not sure I can ever let go off this list. And that it's always going to be in my way of having a normal life.

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4 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

It's not something we are going to do Cora.  That's not what the forum is here for.  We are here to support recovery and help sufferers work towards that goal

I understand this (even though it seems like I don't). But this is how I feel at the moment, I'm sorry. 

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Engaging with the therapist/therapy means being prepared to accept the diagnosis and being prepared to do the homework  and follow the suggestions that they recommend.  The same is relevant to the advice on the forum.

You won't wake up one day and it suddenly all seem to make sense.  You'll doubt, you'll feel afraid (as we've said so many times) but if you start to do that work, steadily make some changes, things will improve.  It might seem tough but unless or until you're prepared to do that, you'll struggle

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1 hour ago, Cora said:

No, I don't want to live with it, I'd have a very miserable life (much, much miserable than it is now). 

I want to engage with the therapy so much and do something (effective) about the way I deal with my thoughts and feelings but I just have this huuuge list of terrible things I think I did. It seems that occasionally I can have a period of a couple of weeks where this list doesn't affect me, but then I always come back to it, wanting to make sure that I didn't cause any harm to people in my life. And I'm not sure I can ever let go off this list. And that it's always going to be in my way of having a normal life.

Cora, letting go of this list won't come quickly. It isn't something you can just wake up one day and decide to do and make it happen there and then. It is something you work towards, something you learn to do over time. Anybody starting out feels the same, do you think a smoker, drug addict or alcoholic truly 100% believe that they can ever let go of their need to take their drug of choice? Addiction is very strong, I bet many people feel that they will never overcome it, even at the expense of their loved ones, their job, their home. But with a great deal of effort, many do. I expect that they still get urges from time to time, but learn to manage them without relapsing. Sometimes people do relapse and then they get back on track again.

OCD isn't an addiction but it's not all that different. You have a belief about yourself and a fear that you think you'll never be able to let go of, you are trapped in this mindset just like an addict is trapped by their substance. You have to start taking steps towards resisting it and if you put in a lot of effort, you can do it too. I can't promise that these feelings will be 100% gone, they may re-emerge every once in a while but you will be better equipped at dealing with them. Maybe you will be like me and have a relapse after many years, but it really isn't all that terrible and you can recover from that too as I have.

My intuition tells me that there will be a day when you finally decide to engage with therapy, because you're bright and you have a lot going for you. But I don't know when that will be. I really hope that you decide to do it sooner rather than later. I want to reiterate that none of this is your fault, but the decision to make things better is on you, you have been given an awful illness, but there are resources available to help you.

However, you also can't expect us to give you reassurance. If you don't want to see a therapist or do the work they ask you to do, that is your decision, but you can't expect us to assist you in maintaining your illness, even if it gives you temporary relief. That in no way means that you are not welcome to share your problems with is, it just means that the answer you get will always be the same, we will keep encouraging you to seek help until you finally do it.

You can't lose anything by trying. If it doesn't work, you can re-evaluate and try something else, but please try.

 

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On 02/06/2021 at 20:16, Cora said:

I'm not sure if I'm ready to engage with it. I mean, I really want to but I'm not sure how or if it's going to work. 

Trouble is, you'll continue to doubt that it could work until you try it. So if not being sure how/ if it's going to work is one of your criteria for putting it off you're going to be living like this indefinately. :(

It's highly unlikely you'll ever wake up one day and think, 'I'm ready to engage with therapy.'  Very few people do. :dry:

What happens is they get to a point where

1. even basic life is impossible and they have no option but to engage and start making changes OR

2. they reach rock bottom (utter misery beyond anything of the preceeding decades where they said it was intolerable). With nowhere to go but up there's nothing to lose by digging deep and engaging with therapy OR

3. they realise they've lost the best years (decades) of their life to unnecessary doubt and anxiety, bite the bullet and go for it before they waste another 10-20 years OR

4. they are given an ultimatum by a loved one and with their relationship/ home/ job/ future/ happiness on the line they find the courage to give it a go OR

5. they find something worth fighting for, something where the possible rewards are better than the perceived pain of change (in reality the change is usually a lot less painful and difficult than people imagine it will be.)

 

Which is it going to be for you, Cora?

Will you wait decades in the hope that one day you'll miraculously feel ready (and probably die of old age, still waiting.) :Old: 

Or will you choose to listen to the advice you've been given and take up the help that's available to you. (I'm of an age where help wasn't available for the first 30 years, be grateful you don't have to go through that.)

However long you wait, the first steps are exactly the same. You won't find it easier because you waited (actually the opposite.)

Courage isn't something we're born with or without. Courage is something we find ready and waiting within ourselves the day we choose to call upon it.

Resilience and strength isn't something only a few lucky people have. Resilence comes by making a start and muddling through. Looking back is when you surprise yourself by realising you had hidden strength within you and just weren't using it.

 

On 02/06/2021 at 20:24, Cora said:

I want to engage with the therapy so much and do something (effective) about the way I deal with my thoughts and feelings but I just have this huuuge list of terrible things I think I did. And I'm not sure I can ever let go off this list. And that it's always going to be in my way of having a normal life.

There's always a 'but' with you. :(

You have a list of terrible things you think you did. Well, I have a list of terrible things I actually did, among them is being the cause of someone dying. For years I let guilt, fear I was a bad person (murderer), doubt that I was worthy of happiness, anxiety at being 'found out' and other such thoughts rule my life. I've paid a higher price in what I've lost to OCD than if I'd been sentenced to life imprisionment. In fact, with a life sentence I'd have served my time and been let out after 25 years! Much easier than what I've gone through due to OCD.

It took me a very, very long time to get to the point I was willing to let go of my list. I totally let it get in the way of me having a normal life. When therapy finally showed me it was ok to let go of it, I discovered the life I thought would be waiting for me when I was 'ready' still had to be worked for.

However long you wait, the first steps are exactly the same. You won't find it easier because you waited.

Actually it's the opposite. Now it's not OCD that keeps me stuck, but the fallout from 50 years of letting OCD rule my life. Waiting made it harder, not easier.

Whatever you choose as your motivation to get help and engage with therapy, don't put it off out of fear of starting, or some misguided belief your list matters.

You'll probably need a bit of therapy to get you to a place where you're ready to let go of that list. Don't put the cart before the horse by hoping the list will go away, thinking 'THEN  I'll be free to engage with therapy.' :horse:  It works the other way around.

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10 hours ago, snowbear said:

I'm of an age where help wasn't available for the first 30 years, be grateful you don't have to go through that.)

I am the same.  When I first started suffering it didn't even have a name.  It didn't appear in magazine articles, or TV documentries, there were no Self-Help books.  You couldn't Google it or find a forum because the Internet didn't even exist.  There were no means of knowing what was happening to you, you simply thought you were insane.  You didn't tell a doctor in case they thought you were insane.  There were no registers of CBT specialists.  So you lived with it in absolute fear of madness.  I lived with it for over two decades for fear of disclosing my thoughts.

None of this makes your suffering less, it doesn't BUT today you do have the availability of information. Of being able to find out in minutes what it is you may be suffering from.....of being able to seek treatment....of having 24 hour support from forums like this.  Please, please use this opportunity and work with the advice and recommendations  we and therapists make.  As Snowbear says, one day you will have to and the methods will be the same whether it's today or in twenty years time.

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Thank you so very much, @malina, @snowbear, and @Caramoole. You are so wonderful! Your advice is amazing and I really hope I can have the courage to use it in a proper and efficient way one day. But I'm sorry I'm not there yet. I know you have spent nearly two years helping, supporting and offering me great advice, and I know I should have probably tried much harder to understand and apply the advice. If I had tried harder, things would have been so much better, I guess. 

Even with all the advice I can't help but feel hopeless. It feels like it is destined for this mess to never end. Just earlier my brother sat on my lap and while I decided to not avoid that as an exposure method, lots and lots of sexual feelings overwhelmed me and I realised that there is a chance it could be like this forever. And that frightens me to my core. 

I'm feeling hopeless and that is selfish. @Caramoole and @snowbear, you are right, I should be grateful that I have all this help and support, and I am, but I don't know why I feel like that is not enough for me. It's like I need someone 24/7 to be there for me because I just don't know if I can do this on my own. 

I don't even know what I'm trying to say with all this. I know I want to engage with therapy and get better, but it feels like I'm never actually going to get past this messy period of my life. 

Edited by Cora
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Look @Cora, I think it's a bit premature to sit here and talk about how you want to, but can't engage with therapy when you don't even have a therapist! Do you think that, for the time being, you can commit to trying to find a therapist? And, if not, why?

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One day you'll have to make that decision Cora :( We can't keep on drip feeding you with reassurance.  Sadly, much of the advice has now just become another source of reassurance wrapped up in the disguise of advice.

If you want to get out of this messy period you have to make the decision to do so and you do have a choice.  I feel saddened and frustrated for you Cora, you're a young woman and it needn't be like this

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