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Hi everyone.

I'm in a very low place right now to the point where I'm going to close down my own business (I'm self employed).

I came off my medication due to side effects and I think my only option now is to go back on it. I am at breaking point and I simply cannot cope anymore.

I was wondering if anyone else here has ever had to either give up employment or their own business due to OCD or depression? I suffer with both and right now I feel like a massive failure and of course I'm worried about my future too.

I live with my parents but had hoped to eventually move out and run my business from my own house, however that is just not going to happen now. I'm frequently experiencing panic attacks, palpitations at night and I cannot sleep due to severe anxiety/intrusive thoughts. 

I don't have any hope anymore. I've had to pick myself up time and time again over the years and I cannot see any solutions for my problems which frightens me.

 

 

 

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Hi Lostsoul,

I'm really sorry to hear that you're having to close down your business, but please know that you are absolutely not a massive failure. The World Health Organization once ranked OCD in the top ten most disabling illnesses by lost income and decreased quality of life, which shows how common it is for OCD to impact on all aspects of your life. I myself didn't work for years because of OCD.

Are you accessing any CBT for the OCD at the moment?

Gemma :)

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Hi Gemma, thank you for replying. I am at rock bottom at the minute.

I have been trying to get help since around November time last year, but it's been a nightmare - it's a bit of a long story and I have felt very let down and unsupported.

I've sent off a self referral form to Derby City Life links but not heard back yet and I'm also waiting to see whether the CCG will fund for the Oxford Specialist treatment.

 

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2 hours ago, Lostsoul said:

Hi everyone.

I'm in a very low place right now to the point where I'm going to close down my own business (I'm self employed).

I came off my medication due to side effects and I think my only option now is to go back on it. I am at breaking point and I simply cannot cope anymore.

I was wondering if anyone else here has ever had to either give up employment or their own business due to OCD or depression? I suffer with both and right now I feel like a massive failure and of course I'm worried about my future too.

I live with my parents but had hoped to eventually move out and run my business from my own house, however that is just not going to happen now. I'm frequently experiencing panic attacks, palpitations at night and I cannot sleep due to severe anxiety/intrusive thoughts. 

I don't have any hope anymore. I've had to pick myself up time and time again over the years and I cannot see any solutions for my problems which frightens me.

 

 

 

Yes, I quit my last job because my boss thought I was an idiot, basically. Or that's my understanding of it, looking back I might be wrong but he was a corporate droid I couldn't work with anyway. He and I were chalk and cheese. I was extremely upset and depressed so much that I had thoughts of suicide over Xmas. My OCD was playing up so badly that I must have Googled for everyone in my past (I think that's my ritual) and obsessed about every single mistake I could remember making in my life - yes, seriously.

Like you, I had recently reduced my dose, in my case from 60Mg to 40Mg. I am semi-convinced that slowed my thinking down and maybe worsened my OCD.

I felt low and a failure like you do. I knew my suicidal thoughts were abnormal  so went to my GP ASAP, I didn't wait.

I was signed off sick by my GP in early January and referred for treatment. I didn't return to the job; my sicklines were extended as my brain couldn't handle returning to that job, that I quit at the end of March. So that's me been 5 months off, effectively.

I'm a 6ft 3 man built like a tank and my old boss was short. It is important to mention this because his words reduced me to a wreck. That's the power they have, but I'm not giving anyone that power again. You'd never believe that could happen by looking at me. But it did. Any other time but lonely winter months during a pandemic I would have shrugged them off.

I worried about my career prospects as well - I had to get a hold of myself (easier said than done) and immersed myself in training courses and problem solving, built my confidence back up. I start a new job tomorrow. I am apprehensive but if it doesn't pan out I won't get stressed again. I'll try and try again until I find a good fit for myself.    

My advice to you is to see your GP and get back on some medication. Do this ASAP. Then you need to plan how you're going to get back to what you do.  That's what I did.

Know this - this pandemic is an awful time for everyone. A constant period of stress and bad news. You're starting from a stressful baseline just as you wake up in the morning.  So your panic attacks could be from that - or from withdrawal symptoms from your meds (been there before myself, too)

If I can get back in the saddle then I am absolutely sure you can too. You are not a failure, and I'm not just saying it, it takes guts to say these things and ask for help.

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52 minutes ago, Scott said:

Yes, I quit my last job because my boss thought I was an idiot, basically. Or that's my understanding of it, looking back I might be wrong but he was a corporate droid I couldn't work with anyway. He and I were chalk and cheese. I was extremely upset and depressed so much that I had thoughts of suicide over Xmas. My OCD was playing up so badly that I must have Googled for everyone in my past (I think that's my ritual) and obsessed about every single mistake I could remember making in my life - yes, seriously.

Like you, I had recently reduced my dose, in my case from 60Mg to 40Mg. I am semi-convinced that slowed my thinking down and maybe worsened my OCD.

I felt low and a failure like you do. I knew my suicidal thoughts were abnormal  so went to my GP ASAP, I didn't wait.

I was signed off sick by my GP in early January and referred for treatment. I didn't return to the job; my sicklines were extended as my brain couldn't handle returning to that job, that I quit at the end of March. So that's me been 5 months off, effectively.

I'm a 6ft 3 man built like a tank and my old boss was short. It is important to mention this because his words reduced me to a wreck. That's the power they have, but I'm not giving anyone that power again. You'd never believe that could happen by looking at me. But it did. Any other time but lonely winter months during a pandemic I would have shrugged them off.

I worried about my career prospects as well - I had to get a hold of myself (easier said than done) and immersed myself in training courses and problem solving, built my confidence back up. I start a new job tomorrow. I am apprehensive but if it doesn't pan out I won't get stressed again. I'll try and try again until I find a good fit for myself.    

My advice to you is to see your GP and get back on some medication. Do this ASAP. Then you need to plan how you're going to get back to what you do.  That's what I did.

Know this - this pandemic is an awful time for everyone. A constant period of stress and bad news. You're starting from a stressful baseline just as you wake up in the morning.  So your panic attacks could be from that - or from withdrawal symptoms from your meds (been there before myself, too)

If I can get back in the saddle then I am absolutely sure you can too. You are not a failure, and I'm not just saying it, it takes guts to say these things and ask for help.

Hi Scott.

I really appreciate you taking the time to reply and for sharing your experience with me.

I'm so sorry to hear you've been having a bad time with your OCD too and it sounds like your ex boss is not a nice man.

I have an appointment with a mental health nurse at my GP surgery this afternoon to discuss how I'm feeling and to sort out some medication. 

I feel like I've been hanging on by a thread for such a long time now and I just can't do it anymore. I need some help.

I am very fearful that I will never get another job again, all I know is I just can't continue with my business anymore. I can't focus on work and I just want to hide away from everybody.

Congratulations on your new job, I really hope it goes well for you tomorrow and that you get to work with some nice people this time. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Lostsoul said:

Hi Scott.

I really appreciate you taking the time to reply and for sharing your experience with me.

I'm so sorry to hear you've been having a bad time with your OCD too and it sounds like your ex boss is not a nice man.

I have an appointment with a mental health nurse at my GP surgery this afternoon to discuss how I'm feeling and to sort out some medication. 

I feel like I've been hanging on by a thread for such a long time now and I just can't do it anymore. I need some help.

I am very fearful that I will never get another job again, all I know is I just can't continue with my business anymore. I can't focus on work and I just want to hide away from everybody.

Congratulations on your new job, I really hope it goes well for you tomorrow and that you get to work with some nice people this time. 

 

 

Just know lostsoul that things can get better mate. You are not alone. Get the help you need.  Work should not be the be-all and end-all of your life, I know money is very important but your health is the most important thing you have. People have been telling me this for the past five months!

I've been in your situation and I know how you're feeling. The intensity of how you're feeling is probably different but I know what you are going through.

Obsessing about failure, obsessing about the future, obsessing about everything and trying to pinpoint  where things went wrong. 

I was diagnosed with OCD in 2003 and managed to hold down jobs since then. I've tried to avoid extremely stressful environments as even a disagreement/argument with a colleague has me obsessing all night. So that job I left, I made the right choice by quitting.

My ex-boss was well-regarded in his company by others. He is what would be termed a "hero", he works long hours, I think he lives and breathes his job, something I have no energy for. I think he was frustrated I wasn't learning as fast as he wanted me to. But some of the things he said to me in our final meetings were grossly offensive to me. Our professional relationship could not continue. It's their loss, because once I learn something, I never forget it.  The position I left, 3 months on, is still open. Serves them right.

It took me a few months to re-calibrate myself and I expect with treatment you will get better and think more positively too. 

Thanks for your kind wishes.  You will get another job again, its the OCD playing on your fear and amplifying them. OCD is an awful disease that can sap your confidence, don't let it. I know its easy for me to say - but I'm living with OCD and have done so for 18 years.

I can say, if the people aren't nice, I'll quit again - I would have no qualms. My health is more important than any job.

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2 hours ago, Lostsoul said:

Hi Gemma, thank you for replying. I am at rock bottom at the minute.

I have been trying to get help since around November time last year, but it's been a nightmare - it's a bit of a long story and I have felt very let down and unsupported.

I've sent off a self referral form to Derby City Life links but not heard back yet and I'm also waiting to see whether the CCG will fund for the Oxford Specialist treatment.

 

Hi Lostsoul,

It's awful that you feel let down and unsupported in getting help for OCD. I hope you hear back from Derby City Links soon and if you have any difficulties with your referral to OHSPIC then you can email us at support@ocduk.org and we will do our best to advise you :)

Gemma

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Thank you Scott. 

I was diagnosed with OCD when I was about 17/18 and I'm 37 now. I feel very ashamed that I still live at home, but it's purely because I've had to leave so many jobs over the years because of my mental health so it's just not been possible financially. This pattern of not coping in previous employment is what terrifies me about being successful in getting another job and maintaining it.

I know exactly what you mean about having a disagreement with someone and then obsessing about it for ages. Amongst many other obsessions; I also tend to obsess a lot about what I've said to people in conversations and worry that somehow they may have misunderstood me and think that I'm a bad or dangerous person.

You've done so well to continuously hold down jobs regardless of your OCD. You're right; it's an awful illness and certainly does knock your confidence and self esteem. It's the constant self doubt that destroys you.

What is your new job going to be by the way?

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8 minutes ago, Gemma@OCDUK said:

Hi Lostsoul,

It's awful that you feel let down and unsupported in getting help for OCD. I hope you hear back from Derby City Links soon and if you have any difficulties with your referral to OHSPIC then you can email us at support@ocduk.org and we will do our best to advise you :)

Gemma

Thank you Gemma. 

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7 minutes ago, Lostsoul said:

Thank you Scott. 

I was diagnosed with OCD when I was about 17/18 and I'm 37 now. I feel very ashamed that I still live at home, but it's purely because I've had to leave so many jobs over the years because of my mental health so it's just not been possible financially. This pattern of not coping in previous employment is what terrifies me about being successful in getting another job and maintaining it.

I know exactly what you mean about having a disagreement with someone and then obsessing about it for ages. Amongst many other obsessions; I also tend to obsess a lot about what I've said to people in conversations and worry that somehow they may have misunderstood me and think that I'm a bad or dangerous person.

You've done so well to continuously hold down jobs regardless of your OCD. You're right; it's an awful illness and certainly does knock your confidence and self esteem. It's the constant self doubt that destroys you.

What is your new job going to be by the way?

I'm sorry you had to leave your jobs due to anxiety. I can say you have made the right choice, choosing health over work. Never in doubt.

Before I was diagnosed with OCD I hit a downward spiral of depression - I was near rock bottom and contemplating suicide. My GP prescribed me beta blockers which made everything much worse. I was suffering cold sweats, racing heartbeat, random thoughts running through my head, nightmares. I was lucky the GP immediately referred me to a psychiatrist who diagnosed me with OCD prescribed me 60mg/day otherwise I might not be here now. As my then girlfriend (now wife) was working and couldn't look after me during my recovery, I moved back in with my parents. I didn't see any shame in it then and I don't see shame in it now, it is better that you are around people.   Who, if they knew what OCD was like, would dare judge you?  You're braver than most normal people for enduring OCD as long as you have, it takes guts.

With regards to a new job, some employers, for example the public sector, are far more accommodating to people with health issues, mental or otherwise, than others. I was working with the NHS when I was first diagnosed with OCD and they bent over backwards to put me into a low stress role where I could contribute. Maybe you could consider similar?

Even if you never find a job that you like, don't give up. Its chemicals in your brain, not you.

My new job is a contract software developer. In the public sector, strangely enough! I didn't pick this role because it's easy (its not), I picked it because it's paying great money and it helps people in their lives. I've never been a man who gets excited about the idea of working for a bank.

I am fortunate in that I can concentrate on my work, shutting out obsessive thoughts - for a while. I'm pretty sure the high dose of Prozac is helping. 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Scott said:

I'm sorry you had to leave your jobs due to anxiety. I can say you have made the right choice, choosing health over work. Never in doubt.

Before I was diagnosed with OCD I hit a downward spiral of depression - I was near rock bottom and contemplating suicide. My GP prescribed me beta blockers which made everything much worse. I was suffering cold sweats, racing heartbeat, random thoughts running through my head, nightmares. I was lucky the GP immediately referred me to a psychiatrist who diagnosed me with OCD prescribed me 60mg/day otherwise I might not be here now. As my then girlfriend (now wife) was working and couldn't look after me during my recovery, I moved back in with my parents. I didn't see any shame in it then and I don't see shame in it now, it is better that you are around people.   Who, if they knew what OCD was like, would dare judge you?  You're braver than most normal people for enduring OCD as long as you have, it takes guts.

With regards to a new job, some employers, for example the public sector, are far more accommodating to people with health issues, mental or otherwise, than others. I was working with the NHS when I was first diagnosed with OCD and they bent over backwards to put me into a low stress role where I could contribute. Maybe you could consider similar?

Even if you never find a job that you like, don't give up. Its chemicals in your brain, not you.

My new job is a contract software developer. In the public sector, strangely enough! I didn't pick this role because it's easy (its not), I picked it because it's paying great money and it helps people in their lives. I've never been a man who gets excited about the idea of working for a bank.

I am fortunate in that I can concentrate on my work, shutting out obsessive thoughts - for a while. I'm pretty sure the high dose of Prozac is helping. 

 

 

Thank you for being so kind and helpful and offering me advice too. I am planning on giving Fluoxetine another go, I've pretty much had all the ssri's and some snri's too. I am off to the doctor's now, so thanks again and all the best for tomorrow. 

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Just a little update. I'm now on Fluoxetine and diazapam as and when needed. I've also decided to try and push myself through this tough time and not be so hasty about closing my business. 

Thanks again Gemma and Scott for listening and being supportive. 

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Please Lostsoul do try the little bit more. I’m in a similar place to you but being brave and pushing through will make you feel more confident that you can keep doing it. I know cos I’m living prof right now. I’m out of work myself at the moment cos of OCD. Don’t be so hard on yourself be kind. ? xx

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15 hours ago, Nikki79 said:

Please Lostsoul do try the little bit more. I’m in a similar place to you but being brave and pushing through will make you feel more confident that you can keep doing it. I know cos I’m living prof right now. I’m out of work myself at the moment cos of OCD. Don’t be so hard on yourself be kind. ? xx

Thank you Nikki, I'm going to push through and try not to give up. I'm sorry to hear you're out of work right now, have you just taken a bit of time off? Xx

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On 05/06/2021 at 08:26, Lostsoul said:

Thank you Nikki, I'm going to push through and try not to give up. I'm sorry to hear you're out of work right now, have you just taken a bit of time off? Xx

Hi Lostsoul yes I have time off while I’m in treatment. I’m not sure what to tell my management when I go back. At least that’s one plus for being your own boss ??❤️

 

On 30/05/2021 at 19:11, Lollipop said:

This is such an encouragement Nikki. Thank you for sharing. Really good to hear things are improving ?

Thanks Lollipop, they really are. The meds they changed me too are having some weird side effects. I find I’m quite dizzy a lot with them so they may have to be changed again if tut continues. How have you been doing? x

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3 hours ago, Nikki79 said:

Hi Lostsoul yes I have time off while I’m in treatment. I’m not sure what to tell my management when I go back. At least that’s one plus for being your own boss ??❤️

Hi Nikki. It's good that you are having some treatment, I really hope it helps you. Does your employer know you have OCD? I remember when I had to have some time off in a previous job, I was off for a good 6 months or so and my sick note from the doctor did say OCD and depression as the reason. I don't really like many people to know about it but on this occasion I didn't really have much choice. Take care. 

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Hi Lostsoul. No I never disclosed to my employer that I had OCD before I began work last January. It’s something I’ve always been afraid to disclose in case it would stop me getting a job. I’m going to seek some advice now on what to do as I would like to be transparent but unfortunately I don’t feel now it is a good idea. Although I’m on probation as I am new to the company, I’ve now broken the amount of sick days you can have in that 8 month probation time. I feel I may lose this job which is a shame as I worked hard and really loved it. 

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Hi Nikki.

I understand what you mean, it's always difficult knowing whether to disclose OCD when being interviewed for jobs for fear that they may not employ you. If you feel you are able to then being open with your employer could be a good thing as they may be able to help you through it when you're struggling and need that little bit of extra support. Of course only you know whether you feel comfortable telling them though. I hope you're doing well still with therapy and that you'll be able to return to the job you love. ? 

I'm glad I decided not to give up my business now, I just have to keep pushing myself when my OCD is at its worst. Hopefully now I'm back on medication that will help lift my depression at least.

Take care. X

 

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  • 4 months later...
On 02/06/2021 at 14:06, Gemma@OCDUK said:

Hi Lostsoul,

It's awful that you feel let down and unsupported in getting help for OCD. I hope you hear back from Derby City Links soon and if you have any difficulties with your referral to OHSPIC then you can email us at support@ocduk.org and we will do our best to advise you :)

Gemma

Gemma

Have you heard of any approvals for OHSPIC funding from CCGs and do you know how long the approval process took, please?

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On 10/10/2021 at 13:14, Chihuahua007 said:

Gemma

Have you heard of any approvals for OHSPIC funding from CCGs and do you know how long the approval process took, please?

Hi Chihuahua,

I do know there have been CCG approved referrals to OHSPIC, but there is no set time frame, as it really depends on the individual and their CCG. If you are struggling with accessing OCD treatment then feel free to email OCD-UK at support@ocduk.org and we will do our best to help.

Gemma :)

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 11/10/2021 at 15:02, Gemma@OCDUK said:

Hi Chihuahua,

I do know there have been CCG approved referrals to OHSPIC, but there is no set time frame, as it really depends on the individual and their CCG. If you are struggling with accessing OCD treatment then feel free to email OCD-UK at support@ocduk.org and we will do our best to help.

Gemma :)

 

Thank you, Gemma.

Things went a bit wonky with my referral to OHSPIC.

OHSPIC accepted me and asked my GP to apply to the CCG.  Her colleagues advised her to seek the approval of the local hospital's Psychotherapy department first, which was a real shame.  She referred to them for approval, they pushed it around for a while and then decided that I should be offered a local alternative instead.

I only discovered this today.  They sent my GP details of a local organisation which helps people tidy up (I have severe hoarding disorder). The sad thing is that I already have this kind of support, which my Social Worker pointed out to her.

The intention in the referral to OHSPIC was to get first class specialist psychotherapy to try and turn the corner once and for all as help with tidying has never really been sufficient and there is clearly something deeper.

I feel really sad that this has happened.  OHSPIC accepted me in September and CCG approval would have meant a possible first visit to Oxford before Christmas.  Once the hospital Psychotherapy department had it, it was doomed.  They kicked it around for several weeks and then sent it down a cul-de-sac by suggesting a local service which was of no use.

The GP has written to Psychotherapy again to say that we really do want support for the Oxford referral and plans to join their meeting later in the week.

I just feel that it's never going to happen.

Feel especially miserable as have just had a nasty physical illness and have spent two weeks in hospital feeling very poorly and frightened.

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On 23/11/2021 at 01:11, Chihuahua007 said:

Thank you, Gemma.

Things went a bit wonky with my referral to OHSPIC.

OHSPIC accepted me and asked my GP to apply to the CCG.  Her colleagues advised her to seek the approval of the local hospital's Psychotherapy department first, which was a real shame.  She referred to them for approval, they pushed it around for a while and then decided that I should be offered a local alternative instead.

I only discovered this today.  They sent my GP details of a local organisation which helps people tidy up (I have severe hoarding disorder). The sad thing is that I already have this kind of support, which my Social Worker pointed out to her.

The intention in the referral to OHSPIC was to get first class specialist psychotherapy to try and turn the corner once and for all as help with tidying has never really been sufficient and there is clearly something deeper.

I feel really sad that this has happened.  OHSPIC accepted me in September and CCG approval would have meant a possible first visit to Oxford before Christmas.  Once the hospital Psychotherapy department had it, it was doomed.  They kicked it around for several weeks and then sent it down a cul-de-sac by suggesting a local service which was of no use.

The GP has written to Psychotherapy again to say that we really do want support for the Oxford referral and plans to join their meeting later in the week.

I just feel that it's never going to happen.

Feel especially miserable as have just had a nasty physical illness and have spent two weeks in hospital feeling very poorly and frightened.

Hi Chihuahua,

I'm sorry to hear that the referral to OHSPIC is currently not going to plan. I'm not sure why your GP wants support for the referral to OHSPIC, especially as OHSPIC have already said that you are eligible for treatment with them. We know that those with Hoarding Disorder need a psychological intervention to help them deal with the feelings and beliefs they have about discarding items and that a decluttering company simply isn't enough.

If you feel able I would suggest asking your GP to put in a request to your local CCG for funding for treatment at OHSPIC. Your GP doesn't need the support of your local psychotherapy department to do this. It's very possible that the CCG will reject your funding proposal, but if this happens try not to worry and let us know at support@ocduk.org and we will advise you on what next steps you can take to appeal their decision.

Gemma

 

 

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I took early retirement... My boss thought my illness was, to quote their own words... 'Bizarre'.  Everything I did was not up to their impossible to attain standard. It was a care home for learning disabilities, and the rules changed daily... One manager sought to please everyone, and they were gone within months...  The whole thing was morally and physically corrupt.  I tried to be surgically clean...  I know now that no one else was, but at the time, under the stress, the staff team turned on itself and each other, and now the greedy parents have no staff, they couldn't get us good ones to stay to look after their kids, so  the home has been liquidated.  You don't go to work to be beaten up, mentally abused, or to be the victim of someone else's misfortune...  I will never again give work my mobile phone number, to be at their beck and call, 24/7.  I'm busier now in my retirement, than I ever was at work. Those people are probably still tearing each other apart, I didn't go down with the sinking ship...  I lost my house, but kept my sanity... 

David

Edited by Dakagraphics-David
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No job is worth giving up your health for.  In this life, your health is the only thing you have... Protect it at all costs. It took more than ten years of retirement to finally recover from the deep seated stress I experienced. As a member of staff in a poorly run care home, it was me who tended to be the victim. If you can keep your health, you can leave to get something more suitable. If I hadn't tried to stay as long as I did, I may not have become so ill...  A career change can be an absolute lifesaver... To be fair, I'm glad it has all brought me to where I am today. I've met some really wonderful people and, though I'll never own my own house again, I do live in a nice place. Although our nearest fish and chip shop is six miles away!

David

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On 23/11/2021 at 01:11, Chihuahua007 said:

Thank you, Gemma.

Things went a bit wonky with my referral to OHSPIC.

OHSPIC accepted me and asked my GP to apply to the CCG.  Her colleagues advised her to seek the approval of the local hospital's Psychotherapy department first, which was a real shame.  She referred to them for approval, they pushed it around for a while and then decided that I should be offered a local alternative instead.

I only discovered this today.  They sent my GP details of a local organisation which helps people tidy up (I have severe hoarding disorder). The sad thing is that I already have this kind of support, which my Social Worker pointed out to her.

The intention in the referral to OHSPIC was to get first class specialist psychotherapy to try and turn the corner once and for all as help with tidying has never really been sufficient and there is clearly something deeper.

I feel really sad that this has happened.  OHSPIC accepted me in September and CCG approval would have meant a possible first visit to Oxford before Christmas.  Once the hospital Psychotherapy department had it, it was doomed.  They kicked it around for several weeks and then sent it down a cul-de-sac by suggesting a local service which was of no use.

The GP has written to Psychotherapy again to say that we really do want support for the Oxford referral and plans to join their meeting later in the week.

I just feel that it's never going to happen.

Feel especially miserable as have just had a nasty physical illness and have spent two weeks in hospital feeling very poorly and frightened.

Hi  Chihuahua007
 

It is good that you have the support of your GP for referral. The Oxford Centre has some good people who deal with hoarding. One of them helped me with hoarding. I would take Gemma’s offer to help you push for a referral. There is a book called Treatment for Hoarding Disorder: A Workbook written by two of the world’s leading experts on hoarding, Gail Steketee and Randy O. Frost which shows the therapeutic approach involved in dealing with hoarding. I have had professional declutteres a long time in the past and I agree that they are no substitute for a professional and psychologically based approach. I had a slight setback with COVID as have too many tins of food bought in the generalised panic buying last year. I have been giving them away!

Edited by Angst
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