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False memory advice needed please!


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Can someone help me please, I’m not sure if false memory is a thing for contamination ocd? I know I’ve experienced false thoughts when I’m near something I’m triggered by but only usually if I am carrying out a task etc with that actual object/thing I fear. 
Late last night I went into the bathroom and when I came out I experienced something really strange. Our toilet is right by the door so you have to walk past it in a small space to get out. I always tend to walk slowly and watch where my legs are as I’m paranoid. I stopped just by the toilet for some reason and looked at it, then went to keep walking and as soon as I got out the door I had this strong thought that my hands were contaminated. I felt a sensation on my hand and had a thought that I had touched the inside rim of the toilet. I carried on to my room and got into bed and ever since I’ve been an absolute wreck. I’m avoiding doing the things I need to do today because I feel like my bed, my door handle and me and anything I touched since is contaminated. On one hand I think that as I fear the toilet so much if I had randomly done that then I surely would’ve carried out many compulsions etc after, not carry on as normal. But then why is the memory so strong? I can see it happening but I don’t know if I’m imagining that because I am thinking about it. I’m so confused, this kind of false memory (if it is that?) has never happened before and I worry because I was tired and sometimes I think maybe I would do something crazy because I’m so fed up with ocd? Does anyone have any advice. I feel stuck and tortured and I don’t understand if it’s even possible for ocd to make something up like that completely? Because if it didn’t happen, then my hands would’ve been nowhere near the toilet so I don’t get where the image is coming from. 

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Because you have OCD!

It's just a thought but why wouldn't it seem real? It came from the same place as all your other thoughts, your mind. Plus, if it didn't seem real, you wouldn't have a disorder.

 

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Hi Ziggyy,

I'm sorry you're having such a difficult day.

What you describe (I have this too) is a form of 'Thought Action Fusion' (where you consider thinking about something to be the same as actually doing it) and is common in OCD. Like you say if you'd really touched the toilet rim you would have noticed instantly and reacted.

I'm not sure how to explain it but I think that this is what is going on; If you think about a dog, the thought/memory of a dog activates lots of different areas of your brain- for example language centres (that process the word 'dog' and related concepts); the sensory association areas (related indirectly to sensation), which help you to recall how a dog's fur feels when you pat one etc.- if you think enough about a dog you can imagine the feeling of its fur and if you do this enough it becomes almost like a memory.

Similarly if you think about a toilet- the thought/memory of a toilet can bring up all sorts of thoughts, concepts and memories of a toilet, even if you've never touched the rim of a toilet, then it can still bring up the sensation of touching the rim based on perceptual information that you have about how the rim would feel if you touched it. 

Okay having read that back it doesn't actually make sense- basically you're not alone, false memories are common even in contamination-related OCD and you definitely didn't touch the rim but even if you had there's no risk to your health from your family's toilet- it's not harmful.

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7 hours ago, PolarBear said:

Because you have OCD!

It's just a thought but why wouldn't it seem real? It came from the same place as all your other thoughts, your mind. Plus, if it didn't seem real, you wouldn't have a disorder.

 

This makes sense. Thank you. Doubt can be so powerful!

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6 hours ago, BelAnna said:

Hi Ziggyy,

I'm sorry you're having such a difficult day.

What you describe (I have this too) is a form of 'Thought Action Fusion' (where you consider thinking about something to be the same as actually doing it) and is common in OCD. Like you say if you'd really touched the toilet rim you would have noticed instantly and reacted.

I'm not sure how to explain it but I think that this is what is going on; If you think about a dog, the thought/memory of a dog activates lots of different areas of your brain- for example language centres (that process the word 'dog' and related concepts); the sensory association areas (related indirectly to sensation), which help you to recall how a dog's fur feels when you pat one etc.- if you think enough about a dog you can imagine the feeling of its fur and if you do this enough it becomes almost like a memory.

Similarly if you think about a toilet- the thought/memory of a toilet can bring up all sorts of thoughts, concepts and memories of a toilet, even if you've never touched the rim of a toilet, then it can still bring up the sensation of touching the rim based on perceptual information that you have about how the rim would feel if you touched it. 

Okay having read that back it doesn't actually make sense- basically you're not alone, false memories are common even in contamination-related OCD and you definitely didn't touch the rim but even if you had there's no risk to your health from your family's toilet- it's not harmful.

Thank you this helps a lot, I do understand your explanation and it makes sense. It’s good to know it can occur for contamination ocd too. Just such a weird thing to experience and I guess you think about it so much you believe it. Just never had that with just looking at something! Didn’t know it could be so strong ? Tried my hardest to move on and forced myself not to change my bed sheets etc. I want to be able to get to the point where I can actually move on without constant anxiety, letting go is so hard!

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Think it’s also so hard to deal with toilet issues because we grow up learning to always wash hands and know that toilets are full of germs so I’ve exaggerated this and made it seem so vital that I can’t be exposed to it. I’m not even sure if it’s mostly worrying about getting sick from germs or more the uncomfortableness of associating my personal space and me with anything to do with the toilet. 

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22 minutes ago, Ziggyy said:

I’m not even sure if it’s mostly worrying about getting sick from germs or more the uncomfortableness of associating my personal space and me with anything to do with the toilet. 

It's largely about the second half of your explanation. A fear that is over-inflated because of your OCD.  Any real risk is negligible & can largely be ignored.  What isn't ignored so easily is the anxiety you feel because of the thoughts......so life becomes one of avoidance, of hand washing, of rumination, of attempting to always control out situation (compulsions)  All of these things make the problem worse, they give it importance....a d so the cycle goes on.......and on.

False memory, real situation?  It doesn't much matter......the risk doesn't really exist.  If you asked me to prove the point, I could stick my hand in a toilet bowl and then eat a biscuit without worrying.  Why?  Absence of fear......so absence of all the other compulsions and self-talk that accompanies it.

Are you currently receiving any therapy or had any in the past?

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12 hours ago, Caramoole said:

It's largely about the second half of your explanation. A fear that is over-inflated because of your OCD.  Any real risk is negligible & can largely be ignored.  What isn't ignored so easily is the anxiety you feel because of the thoughts......so life becomes one of avoidance, of hand washing, of rumination, of attempting to always control out situation (compulsions)  All of these things make the problem worse, they give it importance....a d so the cycle goes on.......and on.

False memory, real situation?  It doesn't much matter......the risk doesn't really exist.  If you asked me to prove the point, I could stick my hand in a toilet bowl and then eat a biscuit without worrying.  Why?  Absence of fear......so absence of all the other compulsions and self-talk that accompanies it.

Are you currently receiving any therapy or had any in the past?

I understand that but we are all taught how toilets are full of germs, etc, so I don’t know how to see it as not a risk. If you did eat after that I thought you would get sick? That’s what’s confusing. I know you wouldn’t die but it is still harmful germs. 
currently waiting on therapy unfortunately. 

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24 minutes ago, Ziggyy said:

I understand that but we are all taught how toilets are full of germs, etc, so I don’t know how to see it as not a risk. If you did eat after that I thought you would get sick? That’s what’s confusing. I know you wouldn’t die but it is still harmful germs. 
currently waiting on therapy unfortunately. 

Hi Ziggyy, 

This is an ERP task that some of the OCD treatment centres in the UK get patients to do. It's unlikely that doing it at home would cause you to become ill as we have constant exposure to small amounts of family member's faecal bacteria (grose I know, but not harmful!) just by sharing the same space so it's likely that you've encountered some of the same strains before. You could probably dabble your hands in the water, eat a biscuit and not get ill. There is a small chance you might get ill but we do perceive the risk to be much greater than it is. As you know I panic about the same things as you!

 I personally would never consider putting my hand in a public toilet because whilst the chance of getting something life threatening is very low or even non-existent, the chance of a sickness bug or similar is actually not and there are some diseases like Hepatitis A that survive in toilet water so it just isn't something I would want to do. That said people have done it as an ERP task and not got ill and you are probably more likely not to get ill than to get ill if you do do it as an ERP task.

Edited by BelAnna
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1 hour ago, Ziggyy said:

If you did eat after that I thought you would get sick?

Highly unlikely.  It would be an interesting trial to do to see what the % outcome would be.  I'd hazard a gues, despite what we're taught, the number would be tiny if any at all.

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6 hours ago, Caramoole said:

Highly unlikely.  It would be an interesting trial to do to see what the % outcome would be.  I'd hazard a gues, despite what we're taught, the number would be tiny if any at all.

Huh. That’s so strange. I suppose it’s all these cleaner adverts and information that we need to be bleaching etc that makes me think of the toilet as some hazardous thing!

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7 hours ago, BelAnna said:

Hi Ziggyy, 

This is an ERP task that some of the OCD treatment centres in the UK get patients to do. It's unlikely that doing it at home would cause you to become ill as we have constant exposure to small amounts of family member's faecal bacteria (grose I know, but not harmful!) just by sharing the same space so it's likely that you've encountered some of the same strains before. You could probably dabble your hands in the water, eat a biscuit and not get ill. There is a small chance you might get ill but we do perceive the risk to be much greater than it is. As you know I panic about the same things as you!

 I personally would never consider putting my hand in a public toilet because whilst the chance of getting something life threatening is very low or even non-existent, the chance of a sickness bug or similar is actually not and there are some diseases like Hepatitis A that survive in toilet water so it just isn't something I would want to do. That said people have done it as an ERP task and not got ill and you are probably more likely not to get ill than to get ill if you do do it as an ERP task.

I’ve heard they do that as an ERP task, although it’s one I’ve always dreaded and don’t think I could actually ever go through with. But that’s interesting to know about household exposure- makes sense! I used to go to festivals all the time and the toilets there are worse than anyone could imagine and I never got sick there and there’s no running water just sanitiser! I should use that knowledge to make me strong but it seems like an entirely different person. I don’t know how I did any of that ha

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