Really struggling

[Nikki79]

27 minutes ago, snowbear said:

As long as you keep doing these compulsions you're going to stay stuck.

You checked photos - compulsion. The result? You had more of the familiar thoughts. Well no surprise there then. That's like climbing into the fridge shutting the door and then complaining you're cold.

But it's never too late. You can turn this kind of incident around at any second.

On your way to the photo album...(Thinks...this is a checking compulsion. Turn around and don't check)

Looking through the photos (This is a compulsion. Close the album and walk away)

Every step of the way, every thought, every guilty response... each is yet another opportunity to stop doing even more compulsions.

 

So, what will make you feel stronger? What can you do to get yourself to that point where resistance feels possible?

Only you can decide what is going to get you there. I will tell you though, it won't be anything external. No therapist, forum advice, change in circumstances or outside force is going to get you there. This has to come from you. From within. A point where you decide you want your life back.

Or - dare I say it - the point where you realise you're doing more ongoing harm to your daughter by giving in to OCD day after day than you ever could have done by doing the things you fear and obsess over.

When, when, when, Nikki? If you're not ready to challenge your OCD right now that's ok. Just as long as you work out a plan to get yourself to the point where you are ready. No plan = going nowhere, ever.

You're not going to magically wake up one day feeling stronger. You have to work at getting stronger. Build up your resistance muscles over time. The sooner you start the sooner it will be possible to resist. No resistance workout = no strength to resist, ever.

Next time you feel powerless to resist, ask yourself what has to change to enable you to feel strong enough. Set goals to get yourself to that place. Set a time frame so you can see if you're on track or falling back into old ways.

Your dad's advice is good! Get angry! Get stubborn. Put as much effort into resisting the compulsions as you put into doing them and you could be cured in a matter of weeks! It's all about which side of the fence you want to put your resolve on. Are you holding the fence up, keeping yourself prisoner? Or pushing it over so you can walk to freedom? Same amount of effort, only difference is which side of the battle you put your efforts into.

(*Edit:  I've merged this with your latest thread, Nikki, as I hope I've addressed the questions you raised there in this post.)

Thanks Snowbear I feel I have these thoughts sometimes that I can do better and get better but let me tell you this what stops me is the proof my brain keeps looking for or the thought that I did no wrong to her. This is compelling me to do the wrong things. 

[Caramoole]

9 minutes ago, Nikki79 said:

but let me tell you this what stops me is the proof my brain keeps looking for or the thought that I did no wrong to her. This is compelling me to do the wrong things. 

38 minutes ago, Nikki79 said:

You see the struggle for me

Nikki you keep replying in terms of "Everything you say makes sense but in my case it's different because my brain keeps coming up with doubts and reasons etc etc etc"

Which part of OCD don't you get?  This is OCD, THIS IS WHAT IT DOES!!

As Snowbear says, YOU have to make that plan and day by day, start to practise it.  As she also says, the real harm to your Daughter is from the way OCD is tainting your interaction with her on a daily basis.  You know you can do this, it's time to get determined

[Nikki79]

29 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

Nikki you keep replying in terms of "Everything you say makes sense but in my case it's different because my brain keeps coming up with doubts and reasons etc etc etc"

Which part of OCD don't you get?  This is OCD, THIS IS WHAT IT DOES!!

As Snowbear says, YOU have to make that plan and day by day, start to practise it.  As she also says, the real harm to your Daughter is from the way OCD is tainting your interaction with her on a daily basis.  You know you can do this, it's time to get determined

I must be stupid do you think? I mean why can’t I seem to think the way you guys do. Actually what I think I’m waiting for is the thought and feeling I did no wrong. Sorry I just wanted to clarify that. 
 

how can I start this plan?

Edited July 29, 2021 by Nikki79

[Caramoole]

You'll wait forever Nikki, as Snowbear says, you're not going to wake up one morning and find it's gone.  You should be able to understand why you feel as you do, why you have these feelings....that doesn't mean you wo 't feel the fear or anxiety but you should be able to understand the cause.

Snowbears post contains a lot of suggestions, have another read and think about what you do do currently when the thoughts strike you.  Think how many compulsions you do as a reaction and what you can do to change that.  Think about the suggestions your therapist makes.  Visiting her on a weekly basis shouldn't just be for a chat to make you feel reassured, it's about learning how to change your response and thinking.

[Nikki79]

21 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

You'll wait forever Nikki, as Snowbear says, you're not going to wake up one morning and find it's gone.  You should be able to understand why you feel as you do, why you have these feelings....that doesn't mean you wo 't feel the fear or anxiety but you should be able to understand the cause.

Snowbears post contains a lot of suggestions, have another read and think about what you do do currently when the thoughts strike you.  Think how many compulsions you do as a reaction and what you can do to change that.  Think about the suggestions your therapist makes.  Visiting her on a weekly basis shouldn't just be for a chat to make you feel reassured, it's about learning how to change your response and thinking.

Ok I’ll read it again thanks. 

I like how there is always an opportunity to do better like Snowbear says every thought every incidence is a chance to do better.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Nikki79

[Caramoole]

Snowbear's post in Cora's thread to both of you

 

Posted 2 hours ago · IP   

Quote

 

7 hours ago, Nikki79 said:

How important do you think thoughts are when we fall into the trap of rumination?

 

Quote

 

  6 hours ago, Cora said:

Well, rationally, they are not important even a bit. But we don't know that in the moment of spiral. It's like we know the thoughts are just thoughts but it's also like we don't know that at the same time.

 

You both sound like you expect to know the thoughts aren't important in the moment of spiral. But that's not how it works. You don't wait until you're in the throes of anxiety to start to resist.

Have a plan in place before the thoughts occur.

'Next time I get a thought like that my plan is...'

and practise it mentally. Like running through a fire drill. Go over how you're NOT going to let it spiral in your imagination. Practise how that feels. Imagine yourself responding differently. Not doing compulsions. Distracting yourself with something unrelated to your worries. Picture yourself calm and able to stop it spiralling. 

Quote

 

 5 hours ago, Nikki79 said:

I don’t even know why I feel better, just a hug and ear to listen to me.

 

 

That's great. But you have to get to a place where you can hug yourself, talk yourself down from the anxiety. Build up your self-belief, self-reliance, and the ability to believe yourself .  

Quote

 

 5 hours ago, Cora said:

Now maybe you can engage your mind with something else, something that does not involve rumination or analysis of feelings and thoughts. It could be anything. For example, I have two exams coming in less than 2 weeks so I'm to trying to keep my mind busy with revision. Maybe you could watch something on the TV, maybe listen to some music, or even nap if you feel tired, or go for a walk if the weather is nice enough. 

 

Both of you need a plan in place for how you're going to deal with the next episode of doubt and worry. These are good suggestions for the distraction part, but don't neglect the preparation part, picturing yourself NOT doing compulsions, trusting your own judgement, and staying calm.

[Nikki79]

19 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

Snowbear's post in Cora's thread to both of you

 

Posted 2 hours ago · IP   

You both sound like you expect to know the thoughts aren't important in the moment of spiral. But that's not how it works. You don't wait until you're in the throes of anxiety to start to resist.

Have a plan in place before the thoughts occur.

'Next time I get a thought like that my plan is...'

and practise it mentally. Like running through a fire drill. Go over how you're NOT going to let it spiral in your imagination. Practise how that feels. Imagine yourself responding differently. Not doing compulsions. Distracting yourself with something unrelated to your worries. Picture yourself calm and able to stop it spiralling. 

 

That's great. But you have to get to a place where you can hug yourself, talk yourself down from the anxiety. Build up your self-belief, self-reliance, and the ability to believe yourself .  

Both of you need a plan in place for how you're going to deal with the next episode of doubt and worry. These are good suggestions for the distraction part, but don't neglect the preparation part, picturing yourself NOT doing compulsions, trusting your own judgement, and staying calm.

Being honest I’m still a little stuck on the recent episode but I feel not as stuck as I was which is good. 
 

I’m not sure how to make a plan.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Nikki79

[Caramoole]

3 hours ago, snowbear said:

As long as you keep doing these compulsions you're going to stay stuck.

You checked photos - compulsion. The result? You had more of the familiar thoughts. Well no surprise there then. That's like climbing into the fridge shutting the door and then complaining you're cold.

But it's never too late. You can turn this kind of incident around at any second.

On your way to the photo album...(Thinks...this is a checking compulsion. Turn around and don't check)

Looking through the photos (This is a compulsion. Close the album and walk away)

Every step of the way, every thought, every guilty response... each is yet another opportunity to stop doing even more compulsions.

Well there are some suggestions you could start with.  Recognising the compulsions you do and making a plan to change that response.

When you see this therapist what are they saying to you?  How are you using their advice?

[Nikki79]

39 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

Well there are some suggestions you could start with.  Recognising the compulsions you do and making a plan to change that response.

When you see this therapist what are they saying to you?  How are you using their advice?

Which is basically not ruminating as that is my worst compulsion.

The Therapist said the last day to label the thoughts as OCD as they come in but honestly Caramoole if it was that easy wouldn’t I have done that 21 years ago? Don’t get me wrong I did try it though. I see her again next week. 
 

I do feel calmer this evening Caramoole. Like I have some distance from the thoughts (more than I had). Wouldn’t it be great if I could keep this up? I keep having the recurring thoughts that somehow if I just think enough is enough I can did deep and heal myself. It feels weird to type this out but this does keep coming to me. Like I have the power to fix me. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Nikki79

[snowbear]

26 minutes ago, Nikki79 said:

The Therapist said the last day to label the thoughts as OCD as they come in but honestly Caramoole if it was that easy wouldn’t I have done that 21 years ago? Don’t get me wrong I did try it though.

But what did you try.

Remember this thread?

https://www.ocdforums.org/index.php?/topic/89852-trying-to-accept-our-ocd/

Labelling the thoughts as OCD isn't enough. Your therapist may have omitted the explanation I gave you about what labelling the thoughts as OCD means, perhaps because it's so obvious to her that she doesn't think it needs spelled out, 'This is an OCD thought, so it means nothing, I can (should) ignore it.'

26 minutes ago, Nikki79 said:

I do feel calmer this evening. Like I have some distance from the thoughts. Wouldn’t it be great if I could keep this up?

I'm hearing defeatist talk in your tone, Nikki. 

Already you're expecting to fail, NOT to be able to keep your distance.

Let's hear some fight!

'I have some distance from the thoughts tonight. This is a glimpse of what life with a quiet mind is like! I'm going to keep trying!'

Better that you declare your intent to give it your all a hundred times and come back to say, 'I failed. BUT I'm going to try again '

Better that than to start out with the belief that any relief must be temporary and sooner or later failure is inevitable.

Never underestimate the power of the inner dialogue you have with yourself.

[Nikki79]

2 minutes ago, snowbear said:

But what did you try.

Remember this thread?

https://www.ocdforums.org/index.php?/topic/89852-trying-to-accept-our-ocd/

Labelling the thoughts as OCD isn't enough. Your therapist may have omitted the explanation I gave you about what labelling the thoughts as OCD means, perhaps because it's so obvious to her that she doesn't think it needs spelled out, 'This is an OCD thought, so it means nothing, I can (should) ignore it.'

I'm hearing defeatist talk in your tone, Nikki. 

Already you're expecting to fail, NOT to be able to keep your distance.

Let's hear some fight!

'I have some distance from the thoughts tonight. This is a glimpse of what life with a quiet mind is like! I'm going to keep trying!'

Better that you declare your intent to give it your all a hundred times and come back to say, 'I failed. BUT I'm going to try again '

Better that than to start out with the belief that any relief must be temporary and sooner or later failure is inevitable.

Never underestimate the power of the inner dialogue you have with yourself.

Honestly I don’t and I do actually have the recurrent thoughts that this recovery is going to have to come from me. I think If I could just ignore the thoughts, ruminations etc and fight hard to be and do better. This healing is going to have to come from me. This is a scary thing for me to be typing and saying.

[Caramoole]

It shouldn't be scary....it could be looked at as powerful in that "you" have the power to change this, to turn it round.

[Nikki79]

Would it come bank to haunt me though? I’d be nervous to do this.

[Caramoole]

Nervous to do what?

[Nikki79]

4 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

Nervous to do what?

You know that’s a hard question. I think what I mean is to just live my life without this OCD weighing over me all the time. 

[snowbear]

On 29/07/2021 at 21:32, Nikki79 said:

You know that’s a hard question. I think what I mean is to just live my life without this OCD weighing over me all the time. 

Now there's an interesting answer. Often when people are stuck there's a hidden payoff to not tackling their OCD. If you think compulsions can be sneaky, believe me payoffs are a million times sneakier! To identify them you have to be scrupulously honest with yourself about what you stand to gain by keeping your OCD.

Everybody says 'There's nothing, no benefit, it's all pure misery.' But look closer to see the payoff. It's often tied up in a compulsive belief. For example, 'As long as I can say I'm suffering from OCD I never have to find out if I'd have these thoughts 'for real'. If you're scared you might 'genuinely' have done harm etc then having OCD 'to blame' is one heck of a payoff and can sabotage anybody's most concerted efforts to overcome their compulsions.

Try to pin down even more tightly what it is you're nervous about. Don't be afraid to ask yourself some embarrassing or scary questions and be as honest in your answers as you can. You don't need to share those answers with anyone (unless you want to tell your therapist in confidence) but it might give you some useful insights into your belief system and what you need to change to make you less nervous about letting go of your OCD.

[Nikki79]

I think I’m afraid of the anxiety more than anything afraid of it when it happens. I fear the fear more than anything.

[Caramoole]

On 29/07/2021 at 20:47, Nikki79 said:

Would it come bank to haunt me though? I’d be nervous to do this.

Just so we don't get mixed up.....what did you mean exactly when you said "would it come back to haunt me?"  Would what come back to haunt you?

[Nikki79]

10 hours ago, Caramoole said:

Just so we don't get mixed up.....what did you mean exactly when you said "would it come back to haunt me?"  Would what come back to haunt you?

Hi Caramoole I’m just always afraid that I leave the ocd stuff behind it’s going to come back anyway and worry me again. That’s a fear I have. 

[Caramoole]

Well it's already worrying you, so that's a bit illogical.  

[Nikki79]

32 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

Well it's already worrying you, so that's a bit illogical.  

I know. Caramoole is it true that having more and more intrusive thoughts is a sign they might be going away and thinks are getting better?