An evil feeling

[Cora]

15 hours ago, Hdigtts said:

Nothing ever really goes away though. We will always be able to remember something. The key is getting to the stage you have for a vast majority of the thoughts. That they are just there. You don’t threat about them. You don’t obsess over them. You just live

Thank you! 

Today I feel slightly better, but I'm afraid it's only because last night, before bed, I came up with a "theory" for what happened the other day. I was thinking that maybe because I got scared when I noticed the groinal response and because I was trying really hard to avoid it, it simply got worse. And the more I kept thinking about it, the worse it was getting. I don't know if this makes sense but I just really want to have a logical explanation for some reason - maybe because otherwise I find it much harder to move on. I know dwelling on this won't help me in the long run, but if I stop it, the only other theory left is that I'm a sexual deviant. 

What do you think, @Hdigtts? 

Once again, thank you x

[Hdigtts]

I do think it’s true that the more you think about it the worse it will get so there might be something to that. It’s good that you are feeling better though, keep on moving forward and enjoy the sun today

[Cora]

4 minutes ago, Hdigtts said:

I do think it’s true that the more you think about it the worse it will get so there might be something to that. It’s good that you are feeling better though, keep on moving forward and enjoy the sun today

Thank you! 

[malina]

23 minutes ago, Cora said:

Thank you! 

Today I feel slightly better, but I'm afraid it's only because last night, before bed, I came up with a "theory" for what happened the other day. I was thinking that maybe because I got scared when I noticed the groinal response and because I was trying really hard to avoid it, it simply got worse. And the more I kept thinking about it, the worse it was getting. I don't know if this makes sense but I just really want to have a logical explanation for some reason - maybe because otherwise I find it much harder to move on. I know dwelling on this won't help me in the long run, but if I stop it, the only other theory left is that I'm a sexual deviant. 

What do you think, @Hdigtts? 

Once again, thank you x

You do have a logical explanation, given to you by numerous professionals and supported by an entire community of people with the same problem who can relate to you and what you're experiencing. The trouble is that this all seems very real to you and it's hard to believe logic over your own internal feelings. But you have to continue working towards accepting the rational explanation and learning not to react to and believe every feeling and doubt.

You're seeing your therapist again right? Do you have any homework to do?

[Cora]

Thank you, @malina.

16 minutes ago, malina said:

You do have a logical explanation, given to you by numerous professionals and supported by an entire community of people with the same problem who can relate to you and what you're experiencing

I agree, but the feelings I felt in that moment were just so much for me. And what upsets me the most is that I had to stop myself from doing something bad - I had to force myself to not carry on with acting on the thought/feelings.  

18 minutes ago, malina said:

You're seeing your therapist again right? Do you have any homework to do?

Yes, I am. I'm supposed to be spending time with my brother, more specifically go to the park with him (witch means being alone with him) and play with him - these are the things I avoid to do so that's why. Yesterday I went to the park and spent a good amount of my day with my brother. I didn't really enjoy it because I had some urges and feelings that just didn't feel like OCD. And today I kissed and hugged him even though I had thoughts that I was attracted to him, but the day is not over yet so I still have to play with or just do some sort of activity together.

I was also supposed to not come on here and ask for reassurance but I did it because my therapist is on holiday and I'm seeing her in two weeks in a bit. I know it's a stupid excuse and I should be able to control myself, but it was (and it still is) incredibly hard to not ask for reassurance when the incident made me feel like a sexual deviant. 

[Cora]

I'm such an idiot! I was doing a bit better today but a couple of hours ago I saw mum and brother having a sweet moment where they were hugging and giving kisses to each other. And a memory popped into my mind of how I reacted to that when it happened before: I felt a strong groinal response, maybe even an arousal, and I thought of leaving the room but I didn't because for some reason I was enjoying that feeling. How do I explain this one? Is it still OCD even though I consciously made the choice to stay there because I was enjoying it? Doesn't that sound sick though? 

[PolarBear]

More reassurance seeking Cora.

[ivybasil]

It sounds like you're really struggling with this at the moment @Cora! I'm sorry things are difficult at the moment. Like the others, I'm aware reassurance won't entirely help, but I'd like to offer a couple of thoughts.  

The groinal response you're experiencing - do you think you might only be noticing that because you're hyperaware? How many things does your body do every moment of the day but you don't notice because you don't attach the same significance? For example, sometimes my heart rate might be slightly quicker but because I'm not actively trying to monitor that but if I were, I might try and figure what was the cause and what it meant, what it means about me, what I should do about it. But could it just be that my body is just... being a body, and my OCD is the thing trying to give it too much significance? 

Secondly, this quote is from the charity 'Mind' on their page about OCD: 

Quote

 

Anxiety and arousal

Intrusive sexual thoughts may lead you to constantly monitor and check your genitals. This attention and the anxiety you are feeling may actually increase blood flow and physical arousal. This can make you feel as if you are aroused by the intrusive thoughts when in fact the opposite is true. Many people with this type of OCD call this 'groinal response'.

 

You're in a situation that makes you anxious and that is adding to the problem. It's all about brain chemicals and natural body responses to those chemicals, nothing to do with anything else.  

OCD is the problem here, not you!

[malina]

11 hours ago, Cora said:

I'm such an idiot! I was doing a bit better today but a couple of hours ago I saw mum and brother having a sweet moment where they were hugging and giving kisses to each other. And a memory popped into my mind of how I reacted to that when it happened before: I felt a strong groinal response, maybe even an arousal, and I thought of leaving the room but I didn't because for some reason I was enjoying that feeling. How do I explain this one? Is it still OCD even though I consciously made the choice to stay there because I was enjoying it? Doesn't that sound sick though? 

Cora, this is the reason your therapist assigned you the task of spending time with your brother. You can't only spend time with him when it feels okay and you have no intrusive thoughts or groinal responses. The moments like the one you experienced are actually crucial to your recovery. But you didn't handle it particularly well this time, you did compulsions - you wanted to run away (avoidance), you ruminated and you came here to confess/seek reassurance. You have to handle this differently, the arousal and groinal responses are inevitable, they will happen. So expect them and learn to manage them differently - no running away, take a deep breath and tell yourself that this is good practice for your recovery, do not try to explain it, do not worry about enjoying it, just keep going and keep your mind on the goal, which is to get exposure to these feelings without reacting to them. If you keep reacting with this panic, omg I am enjoying it I am so sick, I have to run away or I'm a terrible person etc etc...well the intrusive thoughts and physical sensations will not ease up.

[Caramoole]

6 hours ago, ivybasil said:

It sounds like you're really struggling with this at the moment @Cora! I'm sorry things are difficult at the moment. Like the others, I'm aware reassurance won't entirely help, but I'd like to offer a couple of thoughts.  

The groinal response you're experiencing - do you think you might only be noticing that because you're hyperaware? How many things does your body do every moment of the day but you don't notice because you don't attach the same significance? For example, sometimes my heart rate might be slightly quicker but because I'm not actively trying to monitor that but if I were, I might try and figure what was the cause and what it meant, what it means about me, what I should do about it. But could it just be that my body is just... being a body, and my OCD is the thing trying to give it too much significance? 

Secondly, this quote is from the charity 'Mind' on their page about OCD: 

You're in a situation that makes you anxious and that is adding to the problem. It's all about brain chemicals and natural body responses to those chemicals, nothing to do with anything else.  

OCD is the problem here, not you!

I agree that sometimes it is both important & very helpful to provide reassurance by way of information and examples (both of which you've given are excellent btw)

However, we have to be mindful of the history of the person involved.  Cora is indeed struggling but that struggle is compounded by the difficulty in giving up/reducing compulsions.  Hundreds of examples and explanations have been given many, many times.  The need for certainty will almost certainly see Cora seeking reassurance & explanations next time a doubt or fear arises.  As Cora herself has mentioned, her therapist has recommended that she doesn't use the forum as a means of reassurance.

I understand how difficult it is when we see someone in distress and want to help but for Cora to progress and get better, she does need to use the advice and recommendations that her therapist has made.....even when the going gets tough.  Just one more explanation is never going to be enough

[Cora]

Thank you so much for your help, @ivybasil, @malina and @Caramoole. 

I'm still struggling with this. I'm trying to accep that the the groinal response was most definitely an anxiety response, but the feelings I had... they just didn't seem to be from an anxious nature, more like the opposite, like enjoyable. I'm worried next time I'll actually act on it because that time I was seconds away from it. 

[malina]

2 hours ago, Cora said:

Thank you so much for your help, @ivybasil, @malina and @Caramoole. 

I'm still struggling with this. I'm trying to accep that the the groinal response was most definitely an anxiety response, but the feelings I had... they just didn't seem to be from an anxious nature, more like the opposite, like enjoyable. I'm worried next time I'll actually act on it because that time I was seconds away from it. 

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by malina

[malina]

2 hours ago, Cora said:

Thank you so much for your help, @ivybasil, @malina and @Caramoole. 

I'm still struggling with this. I'm trying to accep that the the groinal response was most definitely an anxiety response, but the feelings I had... they just didn't seem to be from an anxious nature, more like the opposite, like enjoyable. I'm worried next time I'll actually act on it because that time I was seconds away from it. 

 

[Caramoole]

I wonder why it is that the professionals involved with you (GP's, Psychologists, Psychiatrists, Mental Health Nurses, private therapists) haven't raised concerns and reported them to the relevant authorities?  Why do you think that is Cora?

[iamwesker]

Just remember what your therapist has told you to do Cora

[Cora]

6 hours ago, Caramoole said:

I wonder why it is that the professionals involved with you (GP's, Psychologists, Psychiatrists, Mental Health Nurses, private therapists) haven't raised concerns and reported them to the relevant authorities?  Why do you think that is Cora?

Well, to be honest, only my therapist knows the details of my thoughts. I've never told anyone else about my feelings and urges.  

[Cora]

1 hour ago, iamwesker said:

Just remember what your therapist has told you to do Cora

Thank you, @iamwesker. It is so hard though. I can't focus on anything when I have this constant thought that I am capable of doing such awful things and having such disturbing feelings and urges.

[malina]

13 hours ago, Cora said:

Thank you so much for your help, @ivybasil, @malina and @Caramoole. 

I'm still struggling with this. I'm trying to accep that the the groinal response was most definitely an anxiety response, but the feelings I had... they just didn't seem to be from an anxious nature, more like the opposite, like enjoyable. I'm worried next time I'll actually act on it because that time I was seconds away from it. 

I wrote this long reply to your post and I think I deleted it by accident!

What I essentially wanted to say was that all your experiences mean is that you need to keep practicing. This is exactly why people do ERP - everyone with this kind of problem feels like they are seconds away from doing it. I know that is how I felt all the time. Then you feel like you may not be able to control yourself next time. This is why you have to keep exposing yourself to these experiences. You have to allow yourself to feel that you are seconds away from it time and time again. You have to get experience letting all of these uncomfortable feelings (groinal responses, the feeling that you enjoy it, the urge to do something) just come and not run away from them!

There are two elements to this, the first is to see that you can feel seconds away from doing something but that you then won't do anything. The second is that if you repeatedly expose yourself to these feelings, the will weaken over time.

I can see that you are trying and that is great, but I think you are still stuck in the phase of thinking that you have to stop these feelings or that getting groinal responses or feelings of pleasure is a bad thing that has to be stopped. But you have to evaluate it differently, you have to face these feelings head on, you have to seek them out and let them come and not run away from them. Getting these feelings is horrible but also helpful, because it gives you an opportunity to practice experiencing them without avoidance, rumination and confession. The only way out is through, the only way you can make this stop is by letting it happen. It's paradoxical but that's what exposure is about, you have to face your fears right now for them to be less awful, at which point they will occur less and less.

[Cora]

@malina, thank you so so much for your reply!

I promise, I'm not trying to be disrespectful or ignoring your advice but just this morning I was thinking that last summer there were two occasions when I kind of acted on those feelings and urges by pressing my thighs together (again, I apologise for the details) immediately after having them. I couldn't control myself and I did what I did. I forgot about those moments but they're back, I guess. What do I do now? Isn't the opposite of OCD? 

Again, thank you so much and I'm sorry for all the details. 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Cora

[malina]

3 minutes ago, Cora said:

@malina, thank you so so much for your reply!

I promise, I'm not trying to be disrespectful or ignoring your advice but just this morning I was thinking that last summer there were two occasions when I kind of acted on those feelings and urges by pressing my thighs together (again, I apologise for the details) immediately after having them. I couldn't control myself and I did what I did. I forgot about those moments but they're back, I guess. What do I do now? Isn't the opposite of OCD? 

Again, thank you so much and I'm sorry for all the details. 

I'm really sorry Cora, I tried to come up with a response to this but I feel that I can't help you without just giving you the reassurance that you crave and I don't want to do that.

You have brought up these scenarios many times now, where you believe that you have acted on a thought. What advice did you get then?

As long as you keep writing phrases saying that something is "the opposite of OCD", you are doing the wrong things. You know your diagnosis, people have explained instances like this one countless times now. What you do now is let that memory go, stop ruminating on the details and arguing that it isn't OCD. Try to accept what you have been told and move on with your life.

 

[Caramoole]

Do you want to start to feel better Cora?  I'm guessing you do. ....but the ball is firmly in your court now to actually do something about it in line with the many suggestions that have been made.  How do you think any therapy is going to work if you don't start to try to apply it?

There is very little that we can say to you that isn't just repetition, even continued explanations are now simply reassurance and enabling you to continue with compulsions.  Your therapist has advised you not to come on the forums and yet you've been here every day.  I know you've said she's away but that shouldn't be making much difference because neither should you be contacting her whenever you feel unsure or afraid.  As Malina explained earlier, you have to start sitting with this anxiety, exposing yourself to it as your therapist recommended.

I'm really sorry if I'm being tough but you have to start helping yourself & do the work, do the things that have been recommended.  If you were at Uni & were asked to submit an essay on 20th century poets  but instead submitted an essay on Geology, you'd fail.  You could submit an essay on Geology 10 times and you'd still never pass the exam.  This is what's going on here, you can't fix the problem by repeatedly using a method that we know will fail.  None of us here underestimate how difficult it is, it's a place we've all been and it's hard but there are many who know it can be done.  You do have choices Cora.....to make the decision to act on the information given to you.....or make the choice to remain stuck.  You don't have a choice about suffering from OCD but you do have a choice as to how you start to address it.....or not