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Ocd ??, real thoughts or improper conclusions?


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Hello everyone,

I had OCD crisis in my past: love OCD, OCD with sleeping …

After few years of peace without OCD I have just fallen down again.

This time the “object” of my OCD is different and I am not even sure if this is OCD or it is something that would affect everyone in a similar way with high doses of anxiety, fears and doubts.

Few days ago, I met woman for a coffee after contacting her by a contact website application. 
In the previous conversations she told me that she had a daughter of 4 years old, when I gave her my phone number to continue chatting by WhatsApp she told me that she had my phone number and that she thought that I met her in the past in a pub 7 or 8 years ago but she couldn’t recall the pub name. I also noticed during the WhatsApp conversations that she sent me her 4 years old daughter pictures without my request and she even told me that she would come with her daughter for the first coffee which I refused because I consider it inappropriate for a first real meeting between strangers to appear with children.

Then in the meeting She asked me if I remembered her and I did not remember her at all. Then she told me exactly where we met in the past (the name of the pub) but she kept hiding when. I remembered that I was in that pub only one night in my life, I remembered that I met a woman and I ended up in her house having sex with her. I remembered as well that I disliked her because her place and her looked crazy.
Then I remembered that she phoned me few days or few weeks after that encounter saying that she would like to meet me again but I told her straight that I was not interested. 
Then I checked my phone history SMSs and I could find the SMSs exchanged with that woman the night that I met her in the pub, because she left the pub before me and then she invited me to her house and gave me her address.

The horrible thing and when I started to panic was that I found out with these SMSs the date of my single night sexual encounter with her: it was 5 years ago and her daughter now is 4 years old !!!!
So I am terrified now thinking that I could be the father of her Daughter. 

I know for sure that this woman was hiding from the beginning the place where we met and the date.
She did not want me to know who she was, she was sending me pictures of her 4 years old daughter without my request and she wanted to come to the first coffee with her 4 year old daughter!. It is all weird!. 
She told me that she is divorcing the Father of her Daughter and that the Father of her Daughter has no contact with the Child for months… I think it is all a lie. Or probably it is not in her interest that it will be found out that her husband or ex husband is not the biological father of her Daughter.

I am stuck with these thoughts, analysing everything around the conversations and trying to find out her lies and the purpose of her lies.

I would like to move forward but the thoughts are repeating again and again, the doubts are killing me and the anxiety is extremely high.

With this scenario there would be only a way to get out of doubt: DNA tests but then a new spiral of doubts will start: What to do morally if the tests are positive?, not to mention the financial and legal consequences.

Is this OCD?, are my concerns real or it is just all in my head?. 
I guess that writing here it is also a compulsion because I would like to hear: “it is OCD, it is not real…I would not worry”.

Many thanks for reading and any feedback would be highly appreciated.

 

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Hi Tamagochi,

I can understand how difficult this situation must be for you. The issue with OCD is that it will find anything for us to obsess about. What you're obsessing about is the fact that this girl might be your daughter. I believe anyone without OCD would also think about this too and even possibly ask the person if that is their child. 

17 hours ago, Tamagochi said:

She told me that she is divorcing the Father of her Daughter and that the Father of her Daughter has no contact with the Child for months

Just to clarify even if you took DNA tests, your OCD will possibly create doubts such as 'they may have changed the DNA tests', etc. What you are looking for is certainty but you won't get that. You are continuously ruminating as you are looking for any missed details but OCD will also affect this and create false memories. To reduce your compulsions it would be beneficial to pay no attention to the thoughts and let them come and go. You will notice that the thoughts will begin to change as it wants to look for anything so you continuously obsess again. I can understand how difficult this situation must be for you but ruminating and looking for certainty will only fuel your OCD.

Bismah 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks for your answer. It was extremely useful.

Throughout the days my OCD have almost convinced myself that I am the Father, I am not sure if it is because of possible “false memories” or these are real true memories that after some weeks of thinking about it my brain has recovered from some “5 years old file”. At the beginning I was thinking that most likely I used condom but after two weeks some memories came to my mind that I did not use condom consistently, I wish it is a false memory.

To pay no attention to the thoughts and let them come and go is not easy because it seems to me a transcendental issue.
I mean how important can be a Daughter (wanted or unwanted) in someone’s life, I guess that this is the “hook” of my OCD, apart from FEAR because what it is happening to me is also one of my worst nightmare becoming true: mixing my genes with someone who I dislike it is disgusting and undesirable idea for me. 

The problem I see it is that the permanent idea and not being able to get rid of it 24/7 for weeks, months or years will finally make me “embrace” it and accept it and I am afraid that finally I will become involved emotionally like a way to get over my OCD.
I start to feel that anxiety is disappearing sometimes which makes me think that I have accepted my misfortune already and I am on the way to be involved emotionally which is exactly which I did not want.

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...


Unfortunately, I have been ruminating non stop about the object of my obsession and I have convinced myself that I am the Father of that girl.
I know that I have OCD because I have all the symptoms but I am afraid that I am also what I freak out the most because I have a good bunch of evidences that support it.
Actually in one of the Psychotherapist I was he believed without discussions after listening to my story that I was the Father. 
 

Some days I collect evidences that I am not the Father and then my life shines, I focus on my things and I feel the motivation to live as I was doing it just before this crisis. But then again some flash backs of that sexual encounter or some thoughts come to recruit me into misery.

Most of my compulsions are mental: reassuring, looking for certainties that I am not the Father, also inventing strategies to escape from responsibilities if I am… but I have also developed physical compulsions like hitting my pillow to show my rejection towards that situation…

This is the worst OCD crisis I ever had and I do not feel capable to get over it: to forget about it completely and continue my life as it was before. 
 

My fear is becoming true: first I am the Father of that Child with that crazy and ugly woman just because of one stupid night and second I will have to accept responsibilities because my head does not allow another option with the continue “bombing” of thoughts and their anxiety rushes.

After days and days crying and extremely anxious I almost do not feel anymore the anxiety and I think that I am already accepting and adapting to this undesirable and unwanted situation. I hate myself.

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@Bismah OCD-UK Volunteer
“You are continuously ruminating as you are looking for any missed details but OCD will also affect this and create false memories.” 
This is probably happening to me.

”You will notice that the thoughts will begin to change as it wants to look for anything so you continuously obsess again”
This is happening to me 100%.

”ruminating and looking for certainty will only fuel your OCD” .

This has happened to me 100%.

Thanks for your feedback, Bismah, it has been useful because I have identified myself in my crisis as OCDer but this does not exclude that the object of my obsession could be also true, unfortunately.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Tamagochi,

You are engaging in an OCD cycle right now as you’re trying to convince yourself that you’re not the father of this child. This will not help at all and will only make you feel much worse. 

Can I ask why it would be so bad if the child was yours?

Additionally, you have to learn to tolerate the uncertainty of this situation. Are you still in touch with the woman? 

Bismah

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“Can I ask why it would be so bad if the child was yours?”.

Only reading your question makes me feel uncomfortable, anxious and depressed.

I could give you many reasons but basically I feel a strong rejection towards that possibility.

Why do I feel that strong rejection?. I guess it is because I do not like that woman at all.
And It also does not match my circumstances because I already have my children. 
I think that humans spend a huge amount of time and energy trying to find a proper partner, selecting someone who we like. Nobody likes mixing his/her genes with someone who we think/feel is ugly/non intelligent or with other serious defects.

My self confident has decreased a lot after that event, I feel guilty and extremely unlucky. For me it was just a mistake if I did not wear the condom properly which I can not even recall and also a big misfortune to end up in pregnancy if that was the case.

After the psychiatric visit I have been diagnosed with OCD and set in SSRI high doses. I am trying as well psychotherapy with CBT.

”Additionally, you have to learn to tolerate the uncertainty of this situation.”
I am trying it but my brain is continuously “attacked” by unwanted thoughts about it. I am also doing continuous mental compulsions trying to get reassurance is not my Child or some others. 

“Are you still in touch with the woman?” 
No, I refused the contact completely. I just did what I felt/feel: run away from that nightmare. 

If the scenario I have probably built up in my head as the worst case scenario has really happened to me I am convinced that this woman is a “psychiatric element”: first she never reported me about pregnancy even when she always had my phone number which could be somehow slightly reasonable because she did not know me at all (it was just one night stand) but then 5 years later she appears again using a contact application (Tinder) where she supposedly found me accidentally but never suggested that Child could be mine and she told me from beginning about being abandoned by the Father of her Child few months ago. I guess her plan was trying a relationship with me and then communicating me that her Child is mine. For me it is a “horror movie” plan and I do not think that anyone would like to be in that situation. I feel like if I was robbed part of my DNA and then lied and manipulated to get where someone else wants me to be. Me without having any possibility to decide…I know I should have sticked to condom strictly but still there are many possibilities to decide after using inadequately a condom one night.

After I refused her after the first encounter from Tinder she did not contact me anymore which gives me some hope that it is not my Child.

My past OCD crisis with different topics are also an indicator that this could be another OCD crisis and not true, which is what I wish the most. I want to be sicked with OCD million times more than having this situation for real.
I know that I have OCD because of the unwanted thoughts I am having continuously and my continuous mental compulsions but I am afraid that sometimes OCD can happen and at the same time the object of our obsession can be also true.

After two months of feeling high anxiety and some panic attacks, the anxiety is almost gone but still I have the mental compulsions, the strong rejection and the depression.

I have good days when I think that the situation is being built up by me in my head driven by my fears but then I have very bad days when the thoughts and doubts assault me again.

Many thanks for your feedback and any comments will be appreciated.

 

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Hi Tamagochi,

Seems to me there are two problems here and separating them out may help you.

The first problem is whether the child is yours and what you want/need to do about that at a practical level only.

The second problem is how you're reacting

-to the uncertainty of not knowing, to your feelings towards the woman, and to the intrusive thoughts you're experiencing.

I wouldn't presume to advise you on how to manage the first problem. All I will say is taking action is always better than inaction. Remember 'take action' can be to do nothing and let it go, what's important is you move beyond the inaction of wondering and worrying (ruminating.)

The second problem is OCD.

10 hours ago, Tamagochi said:

my brain is continuously “attacked” by unwanted thoughts about it. I am also doing continuous mental compulsions trying to get reassurance is not my Child or some others. 

Engaging with the thoughts and doing mental compulsions only increases the intrusive thoughts and the ferocity of their 'attack'.

Have you and your therapist looked at the meaning you're giving your intrusive thoughts, and alternative ways to react? You kind of hit the nail on the head by asking if they were 'improper conclusions'. :)  Really that's all OCD is - misinterpreting and then over-reacting to thoughts.

Have you tried any behavioural experiments/ ERP yet?

I'm not sure psychotherapy is likely to help, although perhaps that's directed at other issues. It's not going to treat OCD.

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Hi Snowbeard,

From the beginning I knew what I wanted/want to do: moving away, not taking part of it. This is why I did not even ask that woman or contact her again.

But here it is where OCD gets me and OCD does not allow me to go away from it.
 

All this is guessing over guessing because I do not even know if that Child is mine, although my OCD has convinced me after so much rumination and other compulsions that the worst case scenario is the one that happened or I have really found out the truth, the terrible truth for me.

If I could just forget the contact with that woman through Tinder I would be happy again. All rumination I did, all internet checking… was just to be sure that it is not mine and get released but instead I got deeper into the black hole and I even actually convinced myself of the worst case scenario.

Actually what I am doing here is a reassurance compulsion because I would love to read people telling me: “come on, don’t worry, that story does not make sense, you just built it up in your head”. But I am afraid after reading you that something like this could have really happened. I am really down and I do not see the way out.

Thanks for your attention and time writing down.

 

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Hi @Tamagochi,

I understand that you'd want reassurance but I don't think any of us could reasonably tell you whether the child is yours or not.

Other than the distress you're feeling and the scenario unfolding in your mind, what is actually happening? You say you're not in contact with the woman anymore and, even when you met, she didn't actually admit where she met you (or that she was indeed the woman you had a one night stand with) right?

Other than the fact that you dislike this woman, it doesn't sound like she has done anything bad to you. She wanted to bring her daughter on your date, ok that's a little weird, but she respected that you didn't want that and she also respected that you didn't want to be in contact with her anymore. She didn't tell you this child was yours, ask for help or money or anything of the sort.

Then you mention a DNA test as a way of knowing for certain, but that's not really an option. You can't just contact this woman again out of the blue, claim that you had a one night stand with her and demand that she subjects her child to a DNA test to check if you're the father, that would honestly be insane.

So when you look at your situation, is there anything that is causing you a problem other than your worry about this?

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Hi Malina, 

Many thanks for your answer.

“she didn't actually admit where she met you (or that she was indeed the woman you had a one night stand with) right?”.

During Tinder conversations she never admitted when and where we met. But in the coffee she admitted the place and then I linked it to that one night stand, I told her and she smiled to me. Then I asked her when it happened and she said that she did not remember well and became stress with my question…

She also sent me pics of her Daughter when I only asked her for her pictures and during the coffee part of conversation was about her Daughter without my request.
Indicators that made me suspect what freaks me out the most: the date of that night stand which I found out by myself in contrast with her Daughter’s age and some possible similar physical features from her Daughter’s pics, but I am not sure of this one.

Indicators that made me think it could be all made up in my head: She always had my phone number from that night stand but never claimed anything. After the coffee I made her clear that I did not like her at all (personally and physically) and she did not bother me anymore. I guess that a Mother interested in her Child’s identity would have told me somehow, because her Child will grow and ask her who is her Father and I guess that lying in that situation or telling her that she always hid her from her Father would not an acceptable answer for a normal Mother.

I perfectly understand your feedback and it makes a lot of sense. Many thanks again for it.

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2 hours ago, Tamagochi said:

 I am afraid after reading you that something like this could have really happened.

People on the forum can only go on what you write. We have no way of knowing if it's possible or entirely the result of your OCD ruminations.

But from this response it sounds like you already thought this is all OCD. So what does that tell you? :)

 

2 hours ago, Tamagochi said:

Then you think that my main problem is not OCD?.

Personally, I think your problem is entirely OCD, the uncertainty you created with your ruminations.  I hoped separating practical issues from rumination issues would help you see that. I'm sorry my comments confused you and were unhelpful. :(

 

2 hours ago, Tamagochi said:

All rumination I did, all internet checking… was just to be sure that it is not mine and get released but instead I got deeper into the black hole and I even actually convinced myself of the worst case scenario.

Actually what I am doing here is a reassurance compulsion because I would love to read people telling me: “come on, don’t worry, that story does not make sense, you just built it up in your head”.

If reassurance worked you'd not have got into the black hole in the first place. We can tell you that it sounds like you just built it up in your head, but the doubt will return and the ruminations will continue.

That's where the CBT comes in, helping you see how you talked yourself into believing the 'worst case' scenario, how that resulted in this anxiety and doing compulsions and learning to tolerate some (reasonable) doubt and let it go instead of obsessively seeking certainty and answers. :)

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Hi @Tamagochi,

I was wondering if you have tried CBT before? I read in your post that you went to a therapist, but I think it's a bit strange/inappropriate that the therapist would tell you they thought this was your child without any discussion. I'm referring to this info:

On 22/11/2021 at 15:12, Tamagochi said:

Actually in one of the Psychotherapist I was he believed without discussions after listening to my story that I was the Father.

I just hope that you are getting the right kind of support.

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@malina

I stopped going there because I noticed that this Psychologist made me feel much worse, giving credibility to the object of my obsession.

And this Psychologist also told me that CBT has a very limited efficacy.

I am now with another Psychologist who is focusing exclusively on CBT and gives little to non credibility to the object of my obsession.

Many thanks for your feedback.

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20 minutes ago, Tamagochi said:

@malina

I stopped going there because I noticed that this Psychologist made me feel much worse, giving credibility to the object of my obsession.

And this Psychologist also told me that CBT has a very limited efficacy.

I am now with another Psychologist who is focusing exclusively on CBT and gives little to non credibility to the object of my obsession.

Many thanks for your feedback.

Ah great, I'm glad to hear that! I definitely think the first psychologist you saw was someone who didn't know much about OCD, so I'm glad that you are seeing someone who is better able to help you now.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update about my obsession or issue:

I phoned that woman (the Mother of that Child) and I asked her if that could be my Child. She denied completely and without hesitation.
 

First she was like shocked by my question and she said: “What!??!”, and then she denied, she said: “no, no, no way”. I asked her if that was for sure and she said “it is for sure”, then she started to laugh a bit. 
My first impression was that she was spontaneous and honest.
I became euphoric after that phone conversation.

But then, days later I started again to doubt and question if she had lied to me because it is not in her interest to expose the truth considering that the legal Child’s Father could sue her because of Financial and Emotional Fraud after finding out and/or because she is not interested to expose her Daughter to someone who she does not know and has no opportunity to know beforehand because we are total strangers: we just had one night stand of sex 5 years ago, shared some conversations by Tinder and met for a coffee two months ago. After that coffee I told her that I was not interested to meet her again.

Then I thought that if she was not interested to expose the truth about her Daughter she would have never met me from Tinder and that thought made me feel relax but then I thought again that she would have told me the truth if she would have consolidated a relationship with me after Tinder encounter and she would have checked in first hand that she could expose her Daughter to me. 
 

Are those scenarios possible?, or these scenarios are very complicated to be true and unlikely?.

I know I am looking for reassurance but sometimes a bit of reality or perspective from Other’s point of view can take me back to reality. Because I am also considering that my obsession is making me lose contact with reality and probably some people here could give me their opinions about my worries, concerns and the scenarios I am building up.

Many thanks beforehand for any feedback.

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Hey @Tamagochi,

you really need to let this go and leave this woman alone!

You should never have contacted her because that was a major compulsion and it only provided you with temporary relief, as these things always do.

I also really think you need to evaluate how you're treating this woman. First, read all of the insulting things you have written about her here, then consider the fact that you thought it as okay to contact her after turning her down just to ask if she was hiding the fact that she had your child. And now you have concoted this story in your head about how she is lying to you so that her husband doesn't sue her?

I'm sorry if this comes accross as harsh but think of it from this perspective - this is a newly single mother who is trying to get back out onto the dating scene. You may not think highly of her, but she hasn't done anything to you and doesn't deserve to be dragged into your OCD. So for everyone's sake, try to work on your OCD and let this go, pursuing it further will not lead to anything positive.

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@malina

thanks for your input.
 

Until now, I did not see it from this angle. I never wanted to insult her and if I have done it here it was not my intention. I am not trying to judge anyone on their actions. Actually I could even understand that a woman that became pregnant in one night stand from a total stranger could not inform the Father considering that she has only his phone number and does not know anything at all about this man.

But you might be totally right. I am not saying the opposite.

Actually it makes me concern now more her reaction because she was not angry with me but surprised with my question and at the end she even laughed a bit. Can this be considered a fake reaction?, would it be a normal reaction to be angry because of my question as you explained?.

From the beginning I am aware that I may be suffering from OCD, I have only phoned this woman once after two months of own torture with all my respect in the phone conversation to ask her about my concern. The conversation was short and I did not challenge her answer or ask her for explanations of why she is so sure is not my Child. 
 

I guess that I got worse in my OCD when I read in internet testimonies of women who stated that they placed a Child to someone else as Father when they knew the biological Father was a different one. Or testimonies of adults looking for their biological Father after her Mother’s confessions later in time. Actually there is also some studies in the net that says that up to 5-10% of Children have a different biological Father than the legal one. 
Again, I am not trying to judge anyone.

The facts that make me concern:

1. I had sex with that woman less than 5 years ago (4 years and 10 months ago), she has a 4 year old Daughter (I do not know the date of birth of that Child).

2. I think that I remember that woman phoned me to meet after the sex encounter but I refuse the meeting. Although I do not how many days or weeks after the sex encounter she phoned me. I even question if she really phoned me, because it could be a false memory I got when I was trying to find out when I had sex with her.

3. I got flashbacks of that night me without condom, although it could also be another false memory I have created when trying to remember or not if I used condoms.

4. The woman sent me some pictures of her Daughter and in some of them I saw some similar physical features although it could be coincidence as well or my obsession working hard on me.

The facts that made me think it could be just my OCD:

1. I was never looked for and nobody claimed to me any paternity. This woman never suggested anything like this either when I talked to her by WhatsApp or Tinder.

2. The woman denied in phone conversation lately when I ask her about it. She seemed to be spontaneous, without hesitation and it was even a bit funny for her my question.

3. I have a long history of OCD crisis before with different topics.

Again, I apologise if I am offensive to women here, it was not my intention at all and of course I will do my best to avoid disturbing anyone.

Thanks again for the feedback.

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Hey @Tamagochi,

I'm glad you understand, I didn't want to come across as angry or harsh to you because I understand that you are suffering. I was in a similar situation once (not the thought of someone else having my child, because I'm a woman ?) but wanting to find out something from someone and realising that contacting that person would be unfair to them and also make my OCD worse.

5 minutes ago, Tamagochi said:

Actually it makes me concern now more her reaction because she was not angry with me but surprised with my question and at the end she even laughed a bit. Can this be considered a fake reaction?, would it be a normal reaction to be angry because of my question as you explained?.

I explained it in an angry way because I have seen your entire thought process laid out here and think that you're heading in a bad direction with this, both for your own mental health and also how you're bringing this woman into this issue. I presume she doesn't know this entire thing and her reaction suggests to me that she was just surprised and baffled by the question.

But now you have your answer from her and you have to do your very best to accept it and work on implementing CBT here. Listing out all of the "facts" of the situation and ruminating are only going to hurt your own recovery.

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Now I am started to be concerned that she should be angry on me because of my question and she wasn’t.

Could she have this reaction of not being angry with me because she knows that my concerns are reasonable and/or may be true?

Her reaction laughing a bit at the end was interpreted by me like a reaction of her telling me the truth. Because if she would have lied about it would not be funny for her.

Again I am ruminating…it is so hard this for me.

 

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“Listing out all of the "facts" of the situation and ruminating are only going to hurt your own recovery.”

True and understood if we consider OCD only.

But if we consider how transcendental could be this topic for everyone and the consequent need of truth…then it is a different story.

It is very easy to say from outside: “accept uncertainty “, but I would like to see those who say this if they had such uncertainties so fixed in their brains and how they would react if this do not let them live in peace.

I start to discredit all this CBT, I guess it is another of my doubting exercise in line with my OCD nature?.

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2 minutes ago, Tamagochi said:

It is very easy to say from outside: “accept uncertainty “, but I would like to see those who say this if they had such uncertainties so fixed in their brains and how they would react if this do not let them live in peace.

You're on an OCD forum, we all have these uncertainties. I have been living with uncertainties fixed in my brain since I can remember thinking, my earliest memories from childhood are intrusive thoughts and doubts. I haven't had peace my entire life because of it...yet I still say that you have to accept uncertainty and it's something that I work towards everyday too.

You have to try and accept that your thinking is distorted, that other people don't see the world the way you do. Other people don't cling onto details like this, other people are able to get an answer from someone and move on with their lives.

You can choose to doubt CBT, but it has helped many people. Your alternative is to pursue this line of thinking and behaviour, to believe that your doubts are true and to continue pursuing an answer. But what are the consequences of that?

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