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Are you always aware of your checking compulsions?


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44 minutes ago, Cora said:

Hi @malina

Firstly, I want to apologise because this might sound like I'm trying to be rude or ungrateful but I promise I'm not. 

I noticed this thought lingering around last night but I figured it was just my brain trying to give me something else to worry about since that's almost like a full time job for me. This morning it was still there, but once again I tried to ignore it and carry on with my day. Half way through my jobs around the house, I gave in, sat down and realised maybe my brain is right. This thought is that maybe by using theory B (or any other theory similar to it) I'm excusing my behaviour hence hiding from the real me, which of course is a terrible person. And now I'm left confused. Is this an intrusive thought? Or is something I have to worry about. I'm trying to use yours and snowbear's advice, trying to see it all from a different perspective and I want to say that it is an intrusive thought and just another way of my brain to make me feel guilty. But of course, when I say that to myself I feel like I'm lying. 

I want to treat it as another intrusive thought but I'm not confident that it's the right choice. 

Once again, I apologise if this sounds rude and inappropriate but that's definetely not my goal with this post. 

Now you are getting to the core of OCD: Doubt.

Is it possible that you are making excuses and that you are this bad person or that theory A is true? Yes, it is possible. I am not saying it's true or that it's even probable but it's not impossible either. No matter how little likelihood there is of something, if there is even a tiny chance a bad thing could be true, our OCD latches onto it.

This is exactly why reassurance doesn't work, because someone could come to tell you that your fear isn't true, but you will inevitably find a reason to doubt it.

So this is the part where you have to take the leap of faith everyone is talking about. Both options (as in this case theory A and B) are technically possible. But you are living your life as if theory A (I am a terrible person) is the ultimate truth, you are reacting to it and seeking people's reassurance to the contrary. Theory B gives you an alternative, and more rational, way of looking at a situation.

The purpose of this exercise is not to give you reassurance and to tell you that everything is okay. It's meant to show you that the way you evaluate things isn't the only way to evaluate them. But you can't get certainty either way and this is the part you have to learn to accept.

Edited by malina
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One thing to add - I think you are still waiting for that lightbulb moment, where someone gives you an alternative explanation and it makes sense and you're then able to get on with your life forever. This will never happen, I'm so sorry Cora, but it doesn't work that way.

You have to practice! You have to consistently try to see an alternative explanation, you have to practice moving on, practice everything you have learned. If you do that, you will become better at it and more resilient and eventually the thoughts will subside.

But I am sorry, there isn't ever going to be a single thing that someone will say or do that will make this all go away. You have to work towards it.

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12 minutes ago, malina said:

Is it possible that you are making excuses and that you are this bad person or that theory A is true? Yes, it is possible. I am not saying it's true or that it's even probable but it's not impossible either. No matter how little likelihood there is of something, if there is even a tiny chance a bad thing could be true, our OCD latches onto it.

It's impossible to prove a negative. There is absolutely no way that I can prove, for example, beyond a shadow of a doubt that I will never kill someone, molest someone, whatever terrible act I can imagine. I can't prove it because I've only lived part of my life! What OCD demands--perfect certainty--simply does not and cannot exist. It can be really freeing to see that nothing can satisfy the OCD, because it means that you can move on from trying to somehow do so.

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16 minutes ago, malina said:

One thing to add - I think you are still waiting for that lightbulb moment, where someone gives you an alternative explanation and it makes sense and you're then able to get on with your life forever. This will never happen, I'm so sorry Cora, but it doesn't work that way.

You have to practice! You have to consistently try to see an alternative explanation, you have to practice moving on, practice everything you have learned. If you do that, you will become better at it and more resilient and eventually the thoughts will subside.

But I am sorry, there isn't ever going to be a single thing that someone will say or do that will make this all go away. You have to work towards it.

This is possibly the single most important piece of information that you have to grasp.  You WILL NOT reach a moment where suddenly you find certainty.  You WILL NOT suddenly find the doubt and worrying thoughts disappear.  You have to look at the facts....The facts that every piece of information, every article, every book you've read explain that the type of thoughts you have are very common in OCD.  The  fact that every OCD Specialist, every Therapist, every GP says the same & that every single professional you've seen has no worries or concerns about you and the things you've told them.  All of the Moderators and fellow sufferers have explained the same.  The chance of all of them being wrong is close to zero.  This is where you MUST start to take that Leap of Faith, to question you faulty thinking, to look at the scary internal conversations you have every day (rumination) and look at the compulsions you continue to try and fix it with.

You won't find that certainty first, you have to move forward despite the doubt

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Thank you so, so much, @malina, @Saffron, and @Caramoole

But I do have another question. The answer might seem obvious which would make my question very stupid, but I might regret it later if I don't ask now. Is it okay and safe (both for me and those I think I hurt) to apply theory B/an alternative explanation to the past moments which brought me (and still do) a great amount of shame and guilt because of my reaction/behaviour in response to it? 

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Just now, Cora said:

Thank you so, so much, @malina, @Saffron, and @Caramoole

But I do have another question. The answer might seem obvious which would make my question very stupid, but I might regret it later if I don't ask now. Is it okay and safe (both for me and those I think I hurt) to apply theory B/an alternative explanation to the past moments which brought me (and still do) a great amount of shame and guilt because of my reaction/behaviour in response to it? 

I feel stupid for posting this, actually. Of course the answer is 'yes', right? Why would it even be the opposite?!

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16 minutes ago, Cora said:

I feel stupid for posting this, actually. Of course the answer is 'yes', right? Why would it even be the opposite?!

? you answered your own question! But you asked because you wanted confirmation. You knew the answer but you wanted someone else to tell you and reassure you. Believe in yourself Cora, you have it in you to succeed here!

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You've got to start answering those sort of questions for yourself and then sit with the doubt and anxiety and the urge to ask, "Yes but....can I just ask one more thing?"

You sit with it, you resist the urge to ask for reassurance....but ALSO, you resist the urge to ruminate to work the question out.  Sit with it, keep occupied.  It will die down if you don't feed it and each time you do that it will weaken the severity

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I'm sorry to be back but I'm struggling. (I hate Sundays! For some reasons all my worries, thoughts and urges seem 10 times worse and more disgusting that any other day of the week.)

This week I had to pick up brother from school on Monday and Tuesday. While waiting for him to come outside, I kept noticing and thinking that other children that were in the school yard were cute. That thought came with some sort of groinal response and, most importantly, with a feeling in my whole chest, and I think most of my body, that I can only describe as warm, nice and enjoyable. Because of that feeling, I felt like I wanted to keep looking (almost staring, I guess) at those children. And I did do that until I forcefully stopped myself. And the worst part is that I was fully aware of the fact that I was enjoying it but I simply didn't want to stop.  

I guess the feeling is not my real problem because I can easily attribute that to OCD which will could help me in dismissing it. What really frightens me is the fact that I seemed to enjoy that feeling; and that because of that I kept staring at children. 

I'm probably going to have to pick up brother tomorrow as well and I'm convinced I'll experience the feeling again, and I'm so scared!

I know I'm repeating myself but that feeling seemed very enjoyable and almost brought in some sort of comfort and pleasure, but in a very sick way, if that makes sense. 

I also understand that it's just a feeling and we discussed this before, but I don't like this. I don't like the comfort and weird enjoyment I get from this feeling. And I know it's definitely sick, disgusting and inappropriate. It's for sure not because I simply think children are cute and adorable - I actually don't like children and don't want them in my life, I find them annoying, exhausting and way too loud. 

I've tried to ignore all of this for some days but I can't do that anymore - it's too disgusting and overwhelming!

Thank you for listening and I hope you are not (too) annoyed or cross with me. 

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Hey Cora,

you already know what you need to do. We've been over these scenarios so many times and I don't really think anyone can give you any further explanations from the ones that have been repeatedly given for two years now. It doesn't matter how much information you give us or put into bold text to get us to pay attention, everything has already been said. Time to be brave, take a chance and put some of this advice into practice now.

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4 minutes ago, malina said:

Hey Cora,

you already know what you need to do. We've been over these scenarios so many times and I don't really think anyone can give you any further explanations from the ones that have been repeatedly given for two years now. It doesn't matter how much information you give us or put into bold text to get us to pay attention, everything has already been said. Time to be brave, take a chance and put some of this advice into practice now.

Hey malina, 

You are right, everything has already been said and I wasn't really expecting more explanations. I was (and still am) very upset by all of this. There is so much happening at the moment, there are so many worries in my head and it's just very hard... 

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17 minutes ago, Cora said:

Hey malina, 

You are right, everything has already been said and I wasn't really expecting more explanations. I was (and still am) very upset by all of this. There is so much happening at the moment, there are so many worries in my head and it's just very hard... 

My therapist taught me a nice analogy to deal with worries. The idea is to imagine that you are at a train station and each worry is an incoming train. You acknowledge that the train is there but you don’t need to get on it. Just let it be there and then leave the platform. 
 

so take a deep breath, don’t try to get on to every single train that comes into the station, just relax and keep moving forward.

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23 hours ago, Cora said:

Hey malina, 

You are right, everything has already been said and I wasn't really expecting more explanations. I was (and still am) very upset by all of this. There is so much happening at the moment, there are so many worries in my head and it's just very hard... 


My friend, I know this is very hard. I'm so sorry you're in so much pain. But I suspect that the reassurance you receive from us/others is starting to be not quite as comforting as it used to be, or not last as long. How long do you usually feel better after receiving reassurance from someone on the site? 

Edited by Saffron37
wrong quote
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On 05/12/2021 at 13:43, malina said:

My therapist taught me a nice analogy to deal with worries. The idea is to imagine that you are at a train station and each worry is an incoming train. You acknowledge that the train is there but you don’t need to get on it. Just let it be there and then leave the platform. 
 

so take a deep breath, don’t try to get on to every single train that comes into the station, just relax and keep moving forward.

Hi malina, 

Thank you very much for this!

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3 hours ago, Saffron37 said:


My friend, I know this is very hard. I'm so sorry you're in so much pain. But I suspect that the reassurance you receive from us/others is starting to be not quite as comforting as it used to be, or not last as long. How long do you usually feel better after receiving reassurance from someone on the site? 

Hi @Saffron37

I think the reassurance usually wears off after a couple of hours. It's like a drug and I constantly need it. It's so awful...

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I've had a rubbish day today.

I've been feeling tired and unmotivated with constant headaches for months now so being productive with uni works seems next to impossible. I have not completed any assignment in the last two and a half months. I can't sit down and do work. I can't focus more than half an hour. I can't do anything at all that involves using loads of effort and thinking. (I've asked for extensions but that's not helping - I also feel incredibly guilty for using OCD as an excuse so it's a lose-lose situation.) And, as stupid and crazy as it sounds, it's all because all I can "hear" is that I'm this terrible, awful, disgusting, unforgivable person. I don't want to listen to what my brain says to me because deep down I comprehend how important it is to get my work done; and because I've missed way too much in the past three years and I want to catch up; and because, as hard as it is, I enjoy learning. But then I stop for a few seconds and get caught up. And then I start agreeing with my brain. I mean, take the example from yesterday. Who gets sick warm, comfortable and enjoyable feelings around children, is aware of them, but doesn't stop it but instead keeps staring at those children? Or an example from today, two days ago, three days ago and so on: who sees a young person (15, 16 or 17 years old) and feels like they want to have their attention in a sick, sexual way? How can I not agree with my brain when moments like this keep happening? 

Earlier my brother was being annoying and getting on my nerves so I gave up; I started hysterically crying and shouting. Later I realised it wasn't because of what he was doing but because of me. I feel awful and this is too much for me. I have about 20 worries to think about every single day, and I'm not even exaggerating. A constant debate, protest, riot, or whatever is happening inside my brain from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to bed. 

I can't and don't want to do this anymore. I'm never going to be able to have a normal life or achieve anything because I'll always have my brain to remind me how insignificant, little and awful I am. Yes, I realise how annoying and pitiful I sound but I hate the state I'm in and that I'll probably never get better.

 

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8 minutes ago, Cora said:

I've had a rubbish day today.

I've been feeling tired and unmotivated with constant headaches for months now so being productive with uni works seems next to impossible. I have not completed any assignment in the last two and a half months. I can't sit down and do work. I can't focus more than half an hour. I can't do anything at all that involves using loads of effort and thinking. (I've asked for extensions but that's not helping - I also feel incredibly guilty for using OCD as an excuse so it's a lose-lose situation.) And, as stupid and crazy as it sounds, it's all because all I can "hear" is that I'm this terrible, awful, disgusting, unforgivable person. I don't want to listen to what my brain says to me because deep down I comprehend how important it is to get my work done; and because I've missed way too much in the past three years and I want to catch up; and because, as hard as it is, I enjoy learning. But then I stop for a few seconds and get caught up. And then I start agreeing with my brain. I mean, take the example from yesterday. Who gets sick warm, comfortable and enjoyable feelings around children, is aware of them, but doesn't stop it but instead keeps staring at those children? Or an example from today, two days ago, three days ago and so on: who sees a young person (15, 16 or 17 years old) and feels like they want to have their attention in a sick, sexual way? How can I not agree with my brain when moments like this keep happening? 

Earlier my brother was being annoying and getting on my nerves so I gave up; I started hysterically crying and shouting. Later I realised it wasn't because of what he was doing but because of me. I feel awful and this is too much for me. I have about 20 worries to think about every single day, and I'm not even exaggerating. A constant debate, protest, riot, or whatever is happening inside my brain from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to bed. 

I can't and don't want to do this anymore. I'm never going to be able to have a normal life or achieve anything because I'll always have my brain to remind me how insignificant, little and awful I am. Yes, I realise how annoying and pitiful I sound but I hate the state I'm in and that I'll probably never get better.

 

I'm so sorry you're feeling all of this Cora. Honestly, this disorder is pretty awful and it's so unfair. It's torture and it's relentless. And you have to deal with other things in life on top of all of the stuff going on in your head. I feel particularly bad for you because nobody is really helping you, yes you have seen therapists but you're still very young and you're navigating this whole system on your own, while having to go to uni, hold down a job and help care for your little brother. It is a lot, I'd be screaming hysterically and crying in your situation too.

You can't see this because you are always putting yourself down, but you have so many wonderful qualities, I can tell. And while you may feel incredibly alone in your head, you're not alone, there are people who love you very much even if they don't understand everything that is going on with you, and there are also many people out there (on this forum and beyond) who know exactly how you feel.

So don't you dare give up! Take some time today to calm down, do something you enjoy, speak to someone...give yourself a break. Then from tomorrow think about what you're going to do regarding your work.

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Thanks @malina.

I feel even worse tonight. I've had to stay with brother and he's just being too loud and too much for me, and I feel like I'm about to explode. He wants constant attention and I can't take it.

I haven't seen or talked my boyfriend that much lately. He's either busy with work and family issues or he's sick (like he's been for the past days). So I don't really have anyone to talk to. 

I feel so angry and upset. This disordor is just so unfair. 

Edited by Cora
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If you copy and paste this one thread, then print it out for your own use, you will have a veritable interacted encyclopaedia/manual, that you can highlight text that helps... Your own Ocd manual, tailored specifically to your own situation... Now that would be ace, wouldn't it!

David

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On 28/11/2021 at 11:35, Cora said:

I'm so very sorry to disappoint everyone because I'm back with stupid questions and confessions.

I was having very disgusting sexual thoughts this morning while I was still in bed (watching random, cute, short videos of pets on social media) and of course I had very strong groinal responses as well (maybe even an arousal). It's hard and weird to explain but because of the way I had my legs positioned, the groinal responses felt pleasurable. And I just didn't want to move my legs into a different position so the groinal responses didn't feel pleasurable. I just didn't want that feeling to stop. And that lasted for 2 or 3 minutes. Why is this happening?!

And when I did move my legs in a different position and put my phone down, the groinal response was still there. But it didn't stop there. I once again put my legs together but this time I pressed my thighs together (I'm sorry, I know how weird this sounds). I did that for two reasons: to test myself and because I liked the fact that if felt enjoyable. So I ended up masturbating, if that's what it was, to the groinal response caused by thoughts about pets. I wanted to do it. I was fully aware of that. 

I know what I did was bad. And I'm not looking for reassurance. I'm just very upset and dissappointed because this happened before and I thought I had moved on and learned from my mistakes. 

Hi, 

I'm very sorry to bring this up again but I woke up this morning with a sudden realisation that because this kind of incidents/moments happened 5 or 6 times, it must mean something awful about me. 

I'm very ashamed to say it again but I did masturbate (by that I mean, crossed my legs and pressed my thighs together to create a pressure on my intimate area - I'm very sorry for the details but I need it to make sense) to the groinal responses/arousals caused by the intrusive thoughts/urges in those respective moments. One or two times it happened because of checking compulsion, I think, but the rest of them happened because I couldn't resist them, I guess - I don't really know how else to describe it but most of the time my groinal responses are incredibly powerful and I just do I do without even thinking. 

I'm trying to use theory B instead of theory A. I'm trying to not see myself as an evil monster because of all of this. I'm trying to tell my brain that I didn't know better and that I didn't necessarily do it to the thoughts but to the arousal/groinal response, but it doesn't feel credible because of how many times it happened. 

This is just the same as me kissing or hugging my brother immediately after have an intrusive thought or urge. It happened so many times and that's why it's such a terrible thing in my eyes. 

My theory B is not working and because I'm so freaked out I'm not sure I can come up with anything better than this. 

Again, I'm very sorry.  

Edited by Cora
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6 hours ago, Cora said:

I woke up this morning with a sudden realisation that because this kind of incidents/moments happened 5 or 6 times, it must mean something awful about me. 

Come on, Cora. :no:

You've had it explained many times that this assumption everything has a meaning or that it says something about you is wrong. No matter how strong the feeling, it still doesn't justify you giving it meaning.

So it wasn't a 'sudden realisation'. It was just the same intrusive thought you've had millions of times before.

You know how to deal with this, and it isn't by coming on the forum confessing and giving us details or explanations.

6 hours ago, Cora said:

I'm very sorry.  

I hope we don't have to say we're sorry there's no option other than to lock your threads again. :unsure:

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2 hours ago, snowbear said:

You've had it explained many times that this assumption everything has a meaning or that it says something about you is wrong. No matter how strong the feeling, it still doesn't justify you giving it meaning.

One last question, I promise. Is it okay to not give it meaning even if it happened more than a couple of times, because I think that's where my main problem is?

2 hours ago, snowbear said:

I hope we don't have to say we're sorry there's no option other than to lock your threads again.

No, please don't lock the thread. I promise this was my last question but please don't close the thread. 

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3 minutes ago, Cora said:

Is it okay to not give it meaning even if it happened more than a couple of times, because I think that's where my main problem is?

:wontlisten: This question has also been answered many times already, Cora. You know the answer.

Your problem is applying what you know (through fear/ reluctance) rather than a lack of understanding. Time to take a deep breath and go for it.

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39 minutes ago, snowbear said:

:wontlisten: This question has also been answered many times already, Cora. You know the answer.

Your problem is applying what you know (through fear/ reluctance) rather than a lack of understanding. Time to take a deep breath and go for it.

Okay, snowbear, I'll go for it. I'll start from tonight. I don't feel great tonight and my brain is telling me I'm awful and disgusting, but I won't listen to it and will allow myself to move on. 

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2 hours ago, Cora said:

Okay, snowbear, I'll go for it. I'll start from tonight. I don't feel great tonight and my brain is telling me I'm awful and disgusting, but I won't listen to it and will allow myself to move on. 

You must Cora.  You have to start on applying the advise.......and yes, it will be tough, it will challenge you but you are capable of doing this.  Carrying on with the confessions, the explanations, reassurance is counter productive.  Much as it gives you brief comfort we can't let this carry on and it may be that the thread will have to be closed if it does ?  We're all here to help you move forward with this but we can't engage with methods that actively ensure you stay stuck

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